Since things haven't gone as well as planned this year, I guess this has changed the managements plans for 2012. If you were Mr Loria, what would you be asking that needs to be done in order to make next year a stepping stone for the Big 2012 Stadium Opening ?

Since things haven't gone as well as planned this year, I guess this has changed the managements plans for 2012. If you were Mr Loria, what would you be asking that needs to be done in order to make next year a stepping stone for the Big 2012 Stadium Opening ?

 

 

Don't take a piss on the fan base for starters. One could say he has by having the team change their name from the Florida Marlins to Miami Marlins. However....it is beginning to grow on me. Miami Marlins, Miami Dolphins, Miami Heat :lol.

 

Trade Cantu and Cody for what you can get. Keep Uggla. The fan base loves him. Just keep him. I doubt he'll be a Marlin forever though...the team has sone guy in AA or AAA at 3rd base, right?

 

Oh, everytime the Marlins hit a home run in the new stadium....on a Friday night, the next home game...any drink or beer is a $1. Just do it Loria.

So far ahead to think about when there is this season and next. If you're talking crystal ball type stuff for 2012 well here you go.

Hanley and JJ are wrapped up until then, so you know you have to fan favorites. I think the FO would be better off locking up Nolasco and Nunez for the next few years. They may want to try out the arbitration years of Gaby and Cogs too. West or Volstad has to be producing by then, if not hopefully Hand, Olmos, Petersen or James are ready to step up.

Uggla, one of my favorites, has to go unless they seriously consider moving Cogs to 3b, but that puts the team back where it was in 20009 without a power hitter at third.

That is only considering Dominguez who should be ready by then isn't.

Cantu and Ross are looong gone by 2012, so hopefully by then the outfield of Lf-Morrison, Cf-Maybin and Rf-Stanton is well established, if not the Marlins are up $h!+S creek

Between now and then they either need to sign or develop a decent bullpen and bench because those are the two biggest holes in 2010.

Opening Day 2012

P-JJ

c-??????, probably not Skipworth, but you never know

1b-Gaby

2b-Coghlan

ss-Hanley

3b-Dominguez

and the already predicted OF

I'd trade a position player for a potential ace pitcher. This organization has done a pathetic job drafting only guys who project to be Chris Volstad, instead of guys who project to be frontline starting pitchers if they put everything together. Championship teams aren't made of mediocre starters.

I'd trade a position player for a potential ace pitcher. This organization has done a pathetic job drafting only guys who project to be Chris Volstad, instead of guys who project to be frontline starting pitchers if they put everything together. Championship teams aren't made of mediocre starters.

 

 

Championship teams aren't made of completely homegrown players. We need to go out and get some proven players, FA, and not plan for every spot to come from the farm system. That includes bullpen, pitchers, bench, hitters AND management. Is there a team in the modern era that has come from their farm system or picking up rule 5 players??

 

Yes we have JJ and Hanley, potential of maybe a few others but NOT 25.

I'd trade a position player for a potential ace pitcher. This organization has done a pathetic job drafting only guys who project to be Chris Volstad, instead of guys who project to be frontline starting pitchers if they put everything together. Championship teams aren't made of mediocre starters.

 

They drafted arguably the best starting pitcher in baseball. You also answered your own concern - if they put it all together. I will take safety and development of a starter over volatility anyday in the draft. Volstad was a smart and safe pick, and there is nothing wrong with a young 3/4 kind of guy. Yes they have whiffed on Allison (high potential!), Sinkbeil, Marceaux, Thompson, and others, but they don't draft all strike throwing inning eaters. Johnson, was not that. Olsen, was not that. West, Hand, and James are not that. They did attempt to sign Chapman this year, who is not an innings eater projection. They also acquired Nolasco, Miller, and Anibal, who were not innings eater types at all and were projected to be power pitchers. More dumb criticism. You balance safety and upside, and take the best player you think develops even if they will not be a superstar.

 

Although I do support moving Uggla for a quality young starter, like Chacin, if the Marlins are able to pull that off. But thats it.

1B - Gaby

2B - Uggla

3B - Coghlan

C - Baker/Paulino

SS - Hanley

LF - Morrison

CF - Maybin or a lefty FA pick-up

RF - Stanton

 

I'd try really hard to have things turn out like that.

 

Then our pitching staff:

 

1. JJ

2. Sanchez

3. Nolasco

4. Volstad

5. West

 

Basically anyone but JJ can be switched for Miller or a Sanabia(?) perhaps?

 

 

 

The way I see it, the Marlins are going to sign a pretty good free agent going into the stadium to generate some sort of interest. If it's not a lefty outfielder (because we DO need a lefty power hitter) then it's going to be a starter - even though this organization is overly cautious of longterm SP signings.

 

As far as the BP goes, We have tons of options down in the minor leagues that should be ready by the time the stadium opens up. The Marlins may or may not go out and get a decent reliever if they feel like some people won't be reaching expectations.

Going into 2012 I'd like to see a big FA signing, either a top tier pitcher or a hitter for the top of the order.

 

My Defensive Alignment would look something in the lights of

C: Skipworth or Baker/Paulino Platoon or possibly Skipworth/Paulino Platoon.

1B: Gaby Sanchez if he can show he can keep up consistent offense if he can't then Logan Morrison.

2B: Chris Coghlan or FA Pickup

3B: Matt Dominguez or FA Pickup

SS: Hanley Ramirez

RF: Giancarlo Cruz-Micheal Stanton

CF: Cameron Maybin/Cody Ross or FA Pickup.

LF: Logan Morrison/Cody Ross/Issac Galloway or FA Pickup

 

Rotation

Josh Johnson

FA Pickup (This could be one of the big signings or possibly a player we got in a Uggla, Cantu or Cody Trade)

Nolasco

Volstad

Sanabia/West/Sanchez/Miller

 

Bullpen is tricky but I'm sure it'll consist of Ceda, Marinez, Tucker at least one of West/Sanabia/Miller and a couple more of the minor leaguers or someone we acquire in a trade with possibly Leo as the closer.

Don't take a piss on the fan base for starters. One could say he has by having the team change their name from the Florida Marlins to Miami Marlins.

 

Actually, one couldn't say that. Why do people keep forgetting that the name change was required as part of the stadium deal and wasn't Loria's idea?

 

I don't know what Loria's personal opinion was. From a club stand-point changing the name has actual costs to modify signage, stationery, etc, and no change would have been preferable. But, all that sort of stuff pales into insignificance in the face of what were probably flat-out, non-negotiable demands by the City of Miami and/or Miami-Dade County to secure their participation. Of course they agreed to it. They had no other reasonable choice.

Don't take a piss on the fan base for starters. One could say he has by having the team change their name from the Florida Marlins to Miami Marlins.

 

Actually, one couldn't say that. Why do people keep forgetting that the name change was required as part of the stadium deal and wasn't Loria's idea?

 

I don't know what Loria's personal opinion was. From a club stand-point changing the name has actual costs to modify signage, stationery, etc, and no change would have been preferable. But, all that sort of stuff pales into insignificance in the face of what were probably flat-out, non-negotiable demands by the City of Miami and/or Miami-Dade County to secure their participation. Of course they agreed to it. They had no other reasonable choice.

 

Yeah, I agree. And why is anyone upset over it? If the public money is coming from the city of Miami, why shouldn't the organization take the city's name? I like it. I'm sure it probably alienates the fan base that doesn't live in the city of Miami but when the team was looking for a stadium they looked at Broward (and elsewhere) and they were refused. The city of Miami is fronting 314 million so if they want their on the organization, they can have it.

Don't take a piss on the fan base for starters. One could say he has by having the team change their name from the Florida Marlins to Miami Marlins.

 

Actually, one couldn't say that. Why do people keep forgetting that the name change was required as part of the stadium deal and wasn't Loria's idea?

 

I don't know what Loria's personal opinion was. From a club stand-point changing the name has actual costs to modify signage, stationery, etc, and no change would have been preferable. But, all that sort of stuff pales into insignificance in the face of what were probably flat-out, non-negotiable demands by the City of Miami and/or Miami-Dade County to secure their participation. Of course they agreed to it. They had no other reasonable choice.

 

Yeah, I agree. And why is anyone upset over it? If the public money is coming from the city of Miami, why shouldn't the organization take the city's name? I like it. I'm sure it probably alienates the fan base that doesn't live in the city of Miami but when the team was looking for a stadium they looked at Broward (and elsewhere) and they were refused. The city of Miami is fronting 314 million so if they want their on the organization, they can have it.

 

 

 

 

 

I personally prefer it would stay the FLORIDA Marlins just as I would prefer the stadium north of the Orange Bowl so easier for Broward and Palm Beach. BUT MIAMI backed it so MIAMI Marlins it is.

Are Broward or Palm Beach fans really alienated by the name change? That's pretty silly, in my eyes. It's not like there's a better option anyway. There's no pro MLB team in Broward County last I checked.

 

And of course Miami earned it by forking up all the dough.

Are Broward or Palm Beach fans really alienated by the name change? That's pretty silly, in my eyes. It's not like there's a better option anyway. There's no pro MLB team in Broward County last I checked.

 

And of course Miami earned it by forking up all the dough.

 

 

I live in Broward and I'm not alienated because I live in Broward and the team will be named MIAMI Marlins. I would rather it stay FLORIDA because it is the FLORIDA Mat rlins who have 2 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS. I'm not big on name changes; that's just it. And it is not like the team is moved across country. For example, can you imagine the Brooklyn Dodges retaining that name in LA? Personally I didn't like the Angels changing their name or the Mighty Ducks in hockey. I prefer tradition. :shifty

I think Broward is more upset about the exact placement of the stadium than them being called the MIAMI Marlins. The team knows by now they are losing Broward fans as they aren't gonna want to go to games so far away (from me it's an hour and a half). Add the daily traffic near the Orange Bowl and you're just asking for angry fans. Still, the team is gonna get a bunch of fans from Miami, so it's pretty much a wash. If I had a say I would've rather seen the stadium built in the empty land next to the Panthers arena (where the condos currently are iirc), but Miami dished out the cash, so it's a dead issue.

^ ^ What he said. I'm a Broward fan too, FWIW.

I also agree it's silly for Broward fans to be alienated about the name change; they've supported the team so much through the years and just because it's further south they're not going to support them at all anymore?

 

While I originally was upset about the idea of changing to the Miami Marlins simply because I bought into the whole "first MLB team in Florida belonging to all of Florida" concept hook line and sinker, since Miami-Dade is ponying up the majority of the cash here (well, actually the tourists are), then so be it. In addition, they're no longer the only team in the state, so there's less reason to keep it.

 

Note, though, that the name change was not just included in this round of stadium deals; the proposal was in the original package the team was trying to put together w/ the state back under Henry in the early 2000's. I remember writing to my district's State Congressman and Senator that while I was an ardent Marlins fan and supported the idea of state sales tax breaks and additional funding to build the stadium, I did not support that particular bill that was being debated because it included a change to the Miami Marlins. I felt that it was disengenuous to ask for so much State support and then take the State's name out of it. I don't rember if it was the Rep or the Senator that wrote back, but they said they agreed with me and were going to introduce an ammendment to stipulate if the team received any State funds, the team name had to remain the Florida Marlins. Of course, that session ended before debate and additional ammendments could be raised, and by the time the bill came up for debate again, he was no longer in office.

 

Still don't understand why this didn't get passed. Every other professional sports team in the state but the Marlins gets the Sales Tax exemption, and you would think with the Republican-controlled Legislature, they'd be all over tax cuts.

I also agree it's silly for Broward fans to be alienated about the name change; they've supported the team so much through the years and just because it's further south they're not going to support them at all anymore?

 

While I originally was upset about the idea of changing to the Miami Marlins simply because I bought into the whole "first MLB team in Florida belonging to all of Florida" concept hook line and sinker, since Miami-Dade is ponying up the majority of the cash here (well, actually the tourists are), then so be it. In addition, they're no longer the only team in the state, so there's less reason to keep it.

 

Note, though, that the name change was not just included in this round of stadium deals; the proposal was in the original package the team was trying to put together w/ the state back under Henry in the early 2000's. I remember writing to my district's State Congressman and Senator that while I was an ardent Marlins fan and supported the idea of state sales tax breaks and additional funding to build the stadium, I did not support that particular bill that was being debated because it included a change to the Miami Marlins. I felt that it was disengenuous to ask for so much State support and then take the State's name out of it. I don't rember if it was the Rep or the Senator that wrote back, but they said they agreed with me and were going to introduce an ammendment to stipulate if the team received any State funds, the team name had to remain the Florida Marlins. Of course, that session ended before debate and additional ammendments could be raised, and by the time the bill came up for debate again, he was no longer in office.

 

Still don't understand why this didn't get passed. Every other professional sports team in the state but the Marlins gets the Sales Tax exemption, and you would think with the Republican-controlled Legislature, they'd be all over tax cuts.

 

 

Well last time I checked, Broward fans are a lot closer to Sun Life Stadium than most of the Dade population. Broward folks have had their chance to support the Marlins and I think have done a rather poor job as of late.

 

As for your last point, Huizenga asked for and got a $ 60 million tax break in 1992 to refit Sun Life Stadium to allow baseball to be played in a previously football/soccer only stadium. Only about half that tax break was used from what I understood at the time, but I think it was thought by most legislators that the Marlins already had gotten their break, and that they didn't want to give it again to the franchise, even though it really wasn't given directly to the franchise but to Huizenga. This is what I remember hearing the argument by Tallahassee was against giving it again to the Marlins.

Just to clarify who is paying for what, the Marlins will contribute $155 million, Miami-Dade County $347 million and the City of Miami $13 million.

 

About 85% of M-D County's contribution is budgeted to come from "tourist" taxes, primarily the 6% Transient Rental or hotel "bed tax" but also including taxes on restaurants and what-not on hotel properties.

 

The bed tax applies to every rental of less than 6 months, but the only people who actually remit them are commercial operations, e.g., hotels, motels and time-share rental outfits. Aunt Bertha who rents a room by the week or month to the local winos has probably never heard of it.

 

Should "tourist" taxes fall short (as is entirely possibly, perhaps even likely,) rest assured that M-D County will be looking for an increase in the local sales tax option (currently 1%) or some other tax that we locals will pay.

 

The City of Miami donated the land. M-D County will own the whole shebang. The Marlins are merely long-term tenants, their required contributions consisting mainly of rental fees. However, the Marlins are responsible for cost-overruns, which is the only reason the thing is on budget and ahead of schedule.

 

Samson, contrary to the opinion of many, is good for something; he's the one cracking the whip on construction.

Don't take a piss on the fan base for starters. One could say he has by having the team change their name from the Florida Marlins to Miami Marlins.

 

Actually, one couldn't say that. Why do people keep forgetting that the name change was required as part of the stadium deal and wasn't Loria's idea?

 

I don't know what Loria's personal opinion was. From a club stand-point changing the name has actual costs to modify signage, stationery, etc, and no change would have been preferable. But, all that sort of stuff pales into insignificance in the face of what were probably flat-out, non-negotiable demands by the City of Miami and/or Miami-Dade County to secure their participation. Of course they agreed to it. They had no other reasonable choice.

 

I didn't know this or forgot about it if I did. Well...maybe the name change will work wonders for the team like Tampa Bay's name change.

Don't take a piss on the fan base for starters. One could say he has by having the team change their name from the Florida Marlins to Miami Marlins.

 

Actually, one couldn't say that. Why do people keep forgetting that the name change was required as part of the stadium deal and wasn't Loria's idea?

 

I don't know what Loria's personal opinion was. From a club stand-point changing the name has actual costs to modify signage, stationery, etc, and no change would have been preferable. But, all that sort of stuff pales into insignificance in the face of what were probably flat-out, non-negotiable demands by the City of Miami and/or Miami-Dade County to secure their participation. Of course they agreed to it. They had no other reasonable choice.

 

Seriously. People really seem to have the memory of a goldfish around here...Name them Miami Pink Pelicans and dress them in pink uniforms for all I care. A stadium and keeping baseball in Miami is worth it. Miami Marlins....Florida Marlins...who cares

 

Personally I'm with you on this one. But I seem to be in the minority in PBC. When talking to folks around here that's typically the first thing they complain about.

I also agree it's silly for Broward fans to be alienated about the name change; they've supported the team so much through the years and just because it's further south they're not going to support them at all anymore?

 

While I originally was upset about the idea of changing to the Miami Marlins simply because I bought into the whole "first MLB team in Florida belonging to all of Florida" concept hook line and sinker, since Miami-Dade is ponying up the majority of the cash here (well, actually the tourists are), then so be it. In addition, they're no longer the only team in the state, so there's less reason to keep it.

 

Note, though, that the name change was not just included in this round of stadium deals; the proposal was in the original package the team was trying to put together w/ the state back under Henry in the early 2000's. I remember writing to my district's State Congressman and Senator that while I was an ardent Marlins fan and supported the idea of state sales tax breaks and additional funding to build the stadium, I did not support that particular bill that was being debated because it included a change to the Miami Marlins. I felt that it was disengenuous to ask for so much State support and then take the State's name out of it. I don't rember if it was the Rep or the Senator that wrote back, but they said they agreed with me and were going to introduce an ammendment to stipulate if the team received any State funds, the team name had to remain the Florida Marlins. Of course, that session ended before debate and additional ammendments could be raised, and by the time the bill came up for debate again, he was no longer in office.

 

Still don't understand why this didn't get passed. Every other professional sports team in the state but the Marlins gets the Sales Tax exemption, and you would think with the Republican-controlled Legislature, they'd be all over tax cuts.

 

 

Well last time I checked, Broward fans are a lot closer to Sun Life Stadium than most of the Dade population. Broward folks have had their chance to support the Marlins and I think have done a rather poor job as of late.

 

As for your last point, Huizenga asked for and got a $ 60 million tax break in 1992 to refit Sun Life Stadium to allow baseball to be played in a previously football/soccer only stadium. Only about half that tax break was used from what I understood at the time, but I think it was thought by most legislators that the Marlins already had gotten their break, and that they didn't want to give it again to the franchise, even though it really wasn't given directly to the franchise but to Huizenga. This is what I remember hearing the argument by Tallahassee was against giving it again to the Marlins.

 

I think they knew this and it played less in their decision as did looking at the attendance records and thinking if South Florida didn't care about the team then why should they?

 

And without a doubt those that don't go along with that thinking will be saying, "But look at the TV ratings!!"

I didn't know this or forgot about it if I did. Well...maybe the name change will work wonders for the team like Tampa Bay's name change.

 

I only pointed this out because Loria takes gratuitous and unjustified hits on this board for stuff he didn't do or isn't his fault.

 

He deserves a little slack. He loves baseball (who else other than the late George Steinbrenner yells at umpires from the proletarian seats near the dugout (not some owner's super-premium, mezzanine, air-conditioned VIP suite) and then gets yelled at by his own manager directly from the dugout?) and has pulled off a stadium deal nobody else managed to get done in 15 previous years of trying.

 

This team has done a lot with an almost microscopic payroll for years, usually at the bottom or near it. Reminds me of the Twins in the '60s when I was a little kid. Calvin Griffith was a absolute and total skinflint (and this was before free agency,) no owner was cheaper than he, yet he always managed to put a competitive team on the field.

 

Now we'll see what Loria and Beinfest might have up their sleeve to try to keep fan-interest building this year and next year into the 2012 opener. I suspect it might be the opposite of the conventional wisdom, which is to "sell."

 

Regardless of what happens next, the truly magnificent stadium is proceeding apace and at least the "Loria only wants to line his pockets with revenue-sharing money" trolls have disappeared. Or been disappeared. Either way works for me.

I think they [state legislators] knew this and it played less in their decision as did looking at the attendance records and thinking if South Florida didn't care about the team then why should they?

 

I rather doubt more than two of them [state legislators] had any clue about attendance. They were more concerned with whether they would be criticized for giving a dime to business, particularly since Huizenga had previously gotten a deal.

 

As well they should have been.

 

Many people are totally opposed to taxpayers subsidizing stadiums, there being no net benefit to taxpayers, as has been shown by many studies over the years. It all amounts to a reshuffling of entertainment dollars to no net effect outside of some temporary construction jobs.

 

But, us local taxpayers haven't been jabbed for this stadium.

 

Yet.

 

All Miami-Dade County did was reallocate funds from stuff most baseball fans would never go near. If the "tourist" taxes don't meet expectations, we'll get jabbed later, but that's 5 or 10 years down the road.

 

That said, I'm glad the stadium deal got done. It would have been much better had Loria and the Marlins been able to build it entirely on their own (see Joe Robbe,) but he/they didn't have the financial strength to float the deal independently. I may not like the basis of the deal, but there's nothing I can do about it. So it goes. The stadium still makes me smile.

I would tell Admin Beinfest that he has $100 million bucks to spend on the 2012 payroll and then I would trust him to build a champion just like he has done before. I'm excited to see what the Marlins could do when money doesn't really matter anymore.

$75 million bucks is beans but today's baseball. Look at the Twins they built through their minor league system but they are also spending a lot more money than usual in Target Field. The Marlins should follow suit. Wouldn't it be nice to finally here again which free agents want to play in Miami? There will be a lot of them....just look at the Heat for instance.