Marlins Unlikely to Move Uggla, Ross

[MrMarlinPride]

Although they've been the subject of frequent trade rumors this year, Dan Uggla and Cody Ross may remain in Florida past July 31st, tweets Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. Rosenthal says while the Marlins have not ruled out trading Uggla and Ross, it looks unlikely that the pair will be dealt.

 

According to Rosenthal, Leo Nunez and Ricky Nolasco appear unavailable, though Jorge Cantu could be on the move this week. In another tweet, Rosenthal confirms the Rangers are making an aggressive play for Cantu, but notes that the Marlins are unconvinced Logan Morrison could adequately replace Cantu's production.

 

Uggla and Ross will each enter their final year of arbitration in 2011, while Cantu becomes a free agent after this season. Nolasco and Nunez each have two more arbitration seasons, and are under team control through 2012.

 

 

 

Good Stuff, I'd love to see Uggla sign for 2 or 3 more seasons and Cody to stay another year, if anything we can trade them both when we need to.

[dim]

Aren't convinced Morrison could match Cantu's current production? That's just dumb.

[Sirspud]

Aren't convinced Morrison could match Cantu's current production? That's just dumb.

 

 

Quite honestly, looking at Logan's AAA numbers he's been nothing spectacular. Cantu has been giving us nothing, and I've been all for the switch until I took a look at the numbers Morrison has now. The slugging isn't great, the average is over .300 but we've seen from Maybin that the .300 number in AAA means little in the majors. He's got a great OBP, but as weird at it seems some OBP guys in the minors take a while to get it going in the majors because they are up there looking for walks and aren't being aggressive enough to get used to getting hits off MLB pitchers. This was something that Hermida reverted to.

 

Logan's also never done anything in ST the last two years. I know it doesn't mean much when a guy is knocking the crap out of fringe pitchers, but it is a great opportunity for young players to showcase their offensive talents and Logan hasn't played up to his ability in those opportunities. So it's natural to feel some reservation about a guy being solid but unspectacular in AAA coming up and doing much in the majors at an offensive position.

 

The Marlins are thinking that a guy who is slumping right now but isn't that old and has had years of good production will have more chance of waking his bat up than a guy who has been unspectacular in AAA coming up and providing starting caliber offense. It isn't that far-fetched. Most people just identify Morrison with the high prospect grades (which are long-term based) than the actual numbers that he's putting up, which don't live up to a top 20 prospect.

[Erick]

It's probably more of the fact that they're not convinced Coghlan can play 3B...at least not immediately.

Morrison would easily outproduce Cantu.

[Erick]

Aren't convinced Morrison could match Cantu's current production? That's just dumb.

 

 

Quite honestly, looking at Logan's AAA numbers he's been nothing spectacular. Cantu has been giving us nothing, and I've been all for the switch until I took a look at the numbers Morrison has now. The slugging isn't great, the average is over .300 but we've seen from Maybin that the .300 number in AAA means little in the majors. He's got a great OBP, but as weird at it seems some OBP guys in the minors take a while to get it going in the majors because they are up there looking for walks and aren't being aggressive enough to get used to getting hits off MLB pitchers. This was something that Hermida reverted to.

 

Logan's also never done anything in ST the last two years. I know it doesn't mean much when a guy is knocking the crap out of fringe pitchers, but it is a great opportunity for young players to showcase their offensive talents and Logan hasn't played up to his ability in those opportunities. So it's natural to feel some reservation about a guy being solid but unspectacular in AAA coming up and doing much in the majors at an offensive position.

 

 

He has 46 walks to 32 strikeouts in AAA this year. Normally guys like that do just fine when they go to the big leagues. It's an easier transition than it is for a guy like Stanton, who has raw power but strikes out a lot.

[dim]

Seriously. Morrison's got Scott Hatteberg written all over him.

[Sirspud]

Aren't convinced Morrison could match Cantu's current production? That's just dumb.

 

 

Quite honestly, looking at Logan's AAA numbers he's been nothing spectacular. Cantu has been giving us nothing, and I've been all for the switch until I took a look at the numbers Morrison has now. The slugging isn't great, the average is over .300 but we've seen from Maybin that the .300 number in AAA means little in the majors. He's got a great OBP, but as weird at it seems some OBP guys in the minors take a while to get it going in the majors because they are up there looking for walks and aren't being aggressive enough to get used to getting hits off MLB pitchers. This was something that Hermida reverted to.

 

Logan's also never done anything in ST the last two years. I know it doesn't mean much when a guy is knocking the crap out of fringe pitchers, but it is a great opportunity for young players to showcase their offensive talents and Logan hasn't played up to his ability in those opportunities. So it's natural to feel some reservation about a guy being solid but unspectacular in AAA coming up and doing much in the majors at an offensive position.

 

 

He has 46 walks to 32 strikeouts in AAA this year. Normally guys like that do just fine when they go to the big leagues. It's an easier transition than it is for a guy like Stanton, who has raw power but strikes out a lot.

 

Well, last I checked, Stanton is doing pretty much what a lot of us said he would- strike out a lot but be more valuable than Maybin because he would contribute with his power. The RBI and the good hr/AB attest to this. Morrison's one tool right now is walking, and that's not an impact tool unless combined with other aspects of an offensive game- things that there are good reason to suspect may not be there if he is pulled up. If he were slugging more or hitting for average more, then I'd agree. If he were a bit older, I'd also agree. But right now he's just a 22 year old whose hitting tools haven't entirely developed, and he's be better off learning how to make his hitting an impact skill in the minors before we expect to see that in the majors.

 

You said normally players with those ratios do better in the majors, but normally guys called up at 22 and expected to hold a starting job in a stretch run have had more significant averages, power, or at least a good power/speed/defense combination. I honestly can't think of a player in MLB right now who was called up at 22 yet wasn't doing one of these things. If anybody knows one, I'd be interesting in seeing a good comp.

[rgkeller]

Luna's numbers at AAA are better than Morrisons.

 

He'd be OK at third if Coghlan can't play there.

 

I would call up Luna if Cantu is traded.

[Sirspud]

Luna's numbers at AAA are better than Morrisons.

 

He'd be OK at third if Coghlan can't play there.

 

I would call up Luna if Cantu is traded.

 

 

It would be nice to see Luna up here at some point, but he's not a starting caliber player. That doesn't mean that he couldn't be a valuable hitter to have getting at bats, there are a lot of ways he could help us out, but with Murphy doing well and Bonifacio making himself useful there's not room on the bench right now.

[canada-marlin24]

luna needs to be called up already.

[Fishes on the Pond]

Then just keep Uncle Wes in more often.

[mystikol87]

Luna's numbers at AAA are better than Morrisons.

 

He'd be OK at third if Coghlan can't play there.

 

I would call up Luna if Cantu is traded.

 

 

No, they really aren't. .424 OBP vs .369 OBP. That's not even close. And they have nearly identical ISO power numbers. Luna has 50% more ABs. Morrison is better this year and has much more upside.

[Shaft]

Aren't convinced Morrison could match Cantu's current production? That's just dumb.

 

 

It's an inside joke. We're just trying to increase Cantu's value to the public right now. A scarecrow could match Cantu's production at this point, let's face it.

[mystikol87]

Aren't convinced Morrison could match Cantu's current production? That's just dumb.

 

 

Quite honestly, looking at Logan's AAA numbers he's been nothing spectacular. Cantu has been giving us nothing, and I've been all for the switch until I took a look at the numbers Morrison has now. The slugging isn't great, the average is over .300 but we've seen from Maybin that the .300 number in AAA means little in the majors. He's got a great OBP, but as weird at it seems some OBP guys in the minors take a while to get it going in the majors because they are up there looking for walks and aren't being aggressive enough to get used to getting hits off MLB pitchers. This was something that Hermida reverted to.

 

Logan's also never done anything in ST the last two years. I know it doesn't mean much when a guy is knocking the crap out of fringe pitchers, but it is a great opportunity for young players to showcase their offensive talents and Logan hasn't played up to his ability in those opportunities. So it's natural to feel some reservation about a guy being solid but unspectacular in AAA coming up and doing much in the majors at an offensive position.

 

 

He has 46 walks to 32 strikeouts in AAA this year. Normally guys like that do just fine when they go to the big leagues. It's an easier transition than it is for a guy like Stanton, who has raw power but strikes out a lot.

 

Well, last I checked, Stanton is doing pretty much what a lot of us said he would- strike out a lot but be more valuable than Maybin because he would contribute with his power. The RBI and the good hr/AB attest to this. Morrison's one tool right now is walking, and that's not an impact tool unless combined with other aspects of an offensive game- things that there are good reason to suspect may not be there if he is pulled up. If he were slugging more or hitting for average more, then I'd agree. If he were a bit older, I'd also agree. But right now he's just a 22 year old whose hitting tools haven't entirely developed, and he's be better off learning how to make his hitting an impact skill in the minors before we expect to see that in the majors.

 

You said normally players with those ratios do better in the majors, but normally guys called up at 22 and expected to hold a starting job in a stretch run have had more significant averages, power, or at least a good power/speed/defense combination. I honestly can't think of a player in MLB right now who was called up at 22 yet wasn't doing one of these things. If anybody knows one, I'd be interesting in seeing a good comp.

 

Morrison projects to be an above-average defender at his position. He has reasonable speed. He's still hitting a bunch of doubles.

 

There are 14 guys batting .300+ in the entire National League right now. You minimizing that stat is ridiculous. His batting average is very good, and his on-base percentage is other-worldly.

 

How in the hell does being younger hurt him? He has the same amount of ML experience as a 25-year old in AAA who hasn't played in the bigs. It's a GOOD thing that he's younger; it shows that he has even more time to develop and he has more upside.

 

Jorge Cantu is terrible right now. He has a .541 OPS this month. FIVE HUNDRED FORTY ONE! That's unbelievably disgustingly horrifically bad. And he was at .680 and .701 the last two months, also. That's terrible. He can't touch major-league pitching right now, and his fielding is really, really bad. And he's slower than Morrison (as if that has a significant impact).

 

I'm willing to bet that if Logan Morrison comes up and has a fair shot at starting everyday, he has a higher AVG, OBP, and OPS than Stanton.

[Anonymous]

I agree with mystikol.

[h2r09]

cantu isnt terrible, but he is wayyyy to much like the rest of the hitters in our lineup and we desperately need another lefty bat and another guy who doesnt strike out much. that would be huge.

[Sirspud]

Aren't convinced Morrison could match Cantu's current production? That's just dumb.

 

 

Quite honestly, looking at Logan's AAA numbers he's been nothing spectacular. Cantu has been giving us nothing, and I've been all for the switch until I took a look at the numbers Morrison has now. The slugging isn't great, the average is over .300 but we've seen from Maybin that the .300 number in AAA means little in the majors. He's got a great OBP, but as weird at it seems some OBP guys in the minors take a while to get it going in the majors because they are up there looking for walks and aren't being aggressive enough to get used to getting hits off MLB pitchers. This was something that Hermida reverted to.

 

Logan's also never done anything in ST the last two years. I know it doesn't mean much when a guy is knocking the crap out of fringe pitchers, but it is a great opportunity for young players to showcase their offensive talents and Logan hasn't played up to his ability in those opportunities. So it's natural to feel some reservation about a guy being solid but unspectacular in AAA coming up and doing much in the majors at an offensive position.

 

 

He has 46 walks to 32 strikeouts in AAA this year. Normally guys like that do just fine when they go to the big leagues. It's an easier transition than it is for a guy like Stanton, who has raw power but strikes out a lot.

 

Well, last I checked, Stanton is doing pretty much what a lot of us said he would- strike out a lot but be more valuable than Maybin because he would contribute with his power. The RBI and the good hr/AB attest to this. Morrison's one tool right now is walking, and that's not an impact tool unless combined with other aspects of an offensive game- things that there are good reason to suspect may not be there if he is pulled up. If he were slugging more or hitting for average more, then I'd agree. If he were a bit older, I'd also agree. But right now he's just a 22 year old whose hitting tools haven't entirely developed, and he's be better off learning how to make his hitting an impact skill in the minors before we expect to see that in the majors.

 

You said normally players with those ratios do better in the majors, but normally guys called up at 22 and expected to hold a starting job in a stretch run have had more significant averages, power, or at least a good power/speed/defense combination. I honestly can't think of a player in MLB right now who was called up at 22 yet wasn't doing one of these things. If anybody knows one, I'd be interesting in seeing a good comp.

 

Morrison projects to be an above-average defender at his position. He has reasonable speed. He's still hitting a bunch of doubles.

 

There are 14 guys batting .300+ in the entire National League right now. You minimizing that stat is ridiculous. His batting average is very good, and his on-base percentage is other-worldly.

 

How in the hell does being younger hurt him? He has the same amount of ML experience as a 25-year old in AAA who hasn't played in the bigs. It's a GOOD thing that he's younger; it shows that he has even more time to develop and he has more upside.

 

Jorge Cantu is terrible right now. He has a .541 OPS this month. FIVE HUNDRED FORTY ONE! That's unbelievably disgustingly horrifically bad. And he was at .680 and .701 the last two months, also. That's terrible. He can't touch major-league pitching right now, and his fielding is really, really bad. And he's slower than Morrison (as if that has a significant impact).

 

I'm willing to bet that if Logan Morrison comes up and has a fair shot at starting everyday, he has a higher AVG, OBP, and OPS than Stanton.

 

I minimize that stat because its a minor league stat. How many guys are hitting .300 in AAA right now who will never do that in the majors? Not that I'm saying Morrison won't do that in his career, but right now a guy who is barely hitting over .300 in AAA and didn't light the world on fire in AA last year is probably not going to do that in the majors. Keep in mind that Coghlan was batting .344 last year (and superior or equal in other numbers) and it took him two months to really get going in the majors. Two months are all that Morrison will have, and those are going to be extremely crucial months for the team. Ohh, and Cameron Maybin hit .319 in AAA last year, yet still couldn't come close to that in the majors. He has some flaws the Morrison doesn't, but we're just talking about average in this case.

 

Hitting over .300 in the minors is doing well, but it's far from spectacular if you're asking whether a guy is gonna come up and be effective in the majors. Being 22 means a heck of a lot, as upside isn't the question here- it's what we can get out of him in a starting role for the upcoming two months.

 

Morrison could easily have a higher avg, OBP, and even OPS than Stanton and still wouldn't be worthwhile right now. Stanton's power is resulting in runs put on the board, and his defense has been pretty darn good. Morrison will not be better in LF than Coghlan (I don't care how bad statheads say Coghlan is, he is nothing compared to Carl Crawford but he's also a heck of a lot better than run-of-the-mill converted first basemen who are occupying LF on half the teams, he makes plays like that great catch at the wall that a lot of LFers have no capability of making) and he will cause us to switch Coghlan to third (likely no better or worse than Cantu, but possibly more errors made due to sheer rustiness).

[Rabbethan]

It's probably more of the fact that they're not convinced Coghlan can play 3B...at least not immediately.

Morrison would easily outproduce Cantu.

 

I think that's probably true (though, really, Cantu can't play 3B either).

[Sirspud]

It's probably more of the fact that they're not convinced Coghlan can play 3B...at least not immediately.

Morrison would easily outproduce Cantu.

 

I think that's probably true (though, really, Cantu can't play 3B either).

 

Cantu is terrible at third, but his play has more to do with a lack of ability than familiarity with the position. I would think that Coghlan would have just as much ability, but I still remember 2006 where the whole infield was making rookie mistakes and constant head-scratching plays. And I remember last year where Bonifacio did the same thing, even though he's actually a versatile and decent defensive player. Having a guy who isn't comfortable at the position is going to result in a lot of costly mistakes that may be both worse and more numerous than what even Cantu is making.

[Erick]

Can we please stop putting Logan Morrison and Hector Luna in the same sentence? Luna is a career journeyman bench player, while Morrison is a top 20 prospect in baseball, right now. There's a difference. It's not silly to suggest that Morrison would succeed at the major league level. He's more like Coghlan/Gaby in terms of his approach at the plate, and we've seen how those guys have been successful in their rookie years. He should be called up. If anything, he should be called up for the sake that he's a good left-handed bat, and we currently only have one of those in our lineup. This lineup, and team in general, is very unbalanced in terms of righty-lefty.

[CyggyMarlin]

Would Luna be a good option for the bench?

[Sirspud]

Would Luna be a good option for the bench?

 

 

He actually has pretty good major league numbers for a backup infielder. But I've heard that his defense isn't that great, and its tough to carry a backup infielder who isn't capable of playing good defense in a pinch. I'm not sure what made them call up Murphy instead, as Luna had better numbers, but obviously Murphy has taken advantage of his opportunity and showed that the team made the right call.

[Rabbethan]

It's probably more of the fact that they're not convinced Coghlan can play 3B...at least not immediately.

Morrison would easily outproduce Cantu.

 

I think that's probably true (though, really, Cantu can't play 3B either).

 

Cantu is terrible at third, but his play has more to do with a lack of ability than familiarity with the position. I would think that Coghlan would have just as much ability, but I still remember 2006 where the whole infield was making rookie mistakes and constant head-scratching plays. And I remember last year where Bonifacio did the same thing, even though he's actually a versatile and decent defensive player. Having a guy who isn't comfortable at the position is going to result in a lot of costly mistakes that may be both worse and more numerous than what even Cantu is making.

You've got a point, as CC was originally a 3B but hasn't regularly played it since '06 (he did play some games at 3B in '09 and '08).

 

That's the smart way to think about it, but that's not how this team thinks about it. Going back as far as Miggie this team has put guys at 3B who hadn't played 3B regularly for a while (or ever).

 

Miggie hadn't played 3B for a couple years until he was put there at the end of '05 when Lowell got injured. Cantu hadn't played 3B regularly ever before we put him there, though he played some games there in 2004 and 1 game in 2007. Bonifacio had never played 3B until we put him there (unless he played some in Winter League, 2003 would probably have the most information there, though 2003 always said that most of the games he played there was in the OF).

 

So why, with the first guy since Lowell who is a natural 3B, are we suddenly afraid to put him there because he hasn't played it regularly for a few years?

[Admin]

I think the problem is that the Marlins are apparently refusing to truly enter seller mode. They are afraid to put Coghlan, Helms, or Bonifacio at third base everyday because it might not help them down the stretch.

 

If you are of my mindset and think that the Marlins should throw in the towel, I think the Marlins should deal Cantu no questions asked. I'm fine with keeping Ross and Uggla, but if the Rangers are actively seeking Cantu, the Marlins should move him without hesitation.

[Rabbethan]

I think the problem is that the Marlins are apparently refusing to truly enter seller mode. They are afraid to put Coghlan, Helms, or Bonifacio at third base everyday because it might not help them down the stretch.

 

If you are of my mindset and think that the Marlins should throw in the towel, I think the Marlins should deal Cantu no questions asked. I'm fine with keeping Ross and Uggla, but if the Rangers are actively seeking Cantu, the Marlins should move him without hesitation.

 

I agree. I want it to be CC at 3B but, with Cantu coming off the books, the Rangers wanting him, Cantu maybe not being even a Type B FA, and our realistic chances, I'd even take Boni out there.