Deplorable move.

 

I despise this ownership a thousand times over.

 

I applaud ownership for offering an over-market contract at 4/$48 to try and keep him for beyond baseball reasons.

 

It's really shocking how this is ownership's fault. DAN TURNED DOWN THE CONTRACT. DID WE ALL MISS THAT?

2010 WAR

 

Uggla 5.1

Paulino 1.1

Maybin .4

 

Buck 2.9

Infante 2.1

Whoever plays 3B/CF opposite CC needs a 1.6

 

Yes, I understand it is very rough math, but Uggla DID overachieve on BABIP and his defense isn't going to get better. Buck's numbers are better outside of Toronto lately and catchers usually come into their own older. Infante, has done this for two years and that is not asking for a lot. Not included in this, is the additional players we will sign with the money Uggla is not getting. Oh, and the multiple multiple relievers we have received who are all awesome. We don't live in a land of infinite payroll where we keep Uggla and add things around him.

 

Big picture people. Our offense has lost nothing, our bullpen is better, and we have Nunez (and Paulino, Badenhop, and Veras if possible) to trade and $5 million more to spend. It would have been nice to also plop a good B+ or better SP prospect on top of Infante/Dunn (Dunn is awesome btw), but the Marlins did their due diligence.

 

BIG PICTURE. I have -0- problems with Uggla, Maybin, and Miller trades, and the Buck free agency signing. We are a better team right now, than we were a week ago.

 

This is all presuming that Buck plays like he did last year which I personally don't think he will and even if he does, his K/BB was still Miguel Olivo like and Infante doesn't walk either so we'd still be losing that from Uggla.

 

And yes, Uggla turning down that kind of money is maddening but it doesn't mean you rush into an impulsive trade. It means you wait until the break and trade him when demand is higher and a better deal presents itself.

And then you can't afford what you want to do. It works both ways. I also think Buck can keep up a .775-.800 OPS and slug out some balls. Baker is an excellent 50 game backup to play versus right handers to pair with him. Assuming Baker is healthy.

"At first, I was really upset about this trade, but because MarlinsLou said we're fine, I'm totally feeling awesome about it! "

 

Give me a break. It's a horrendous trade, and 2011 is not looking very good unless something drastic happens.

And yes, Uggla turning down that kind of money is maddening but it doesn't mean you rush into an impulsive trade. It means you wait until the break and trade him when demand is higher and a better deal presents itself.

 

 

And if there's no better deal in July?

 

This move allows you to address multiple issues with the team and arguably make the team better right now all things considered.

 

It is funny also that you criticize Buck's somewhat flukey 10 season and don't address Uggla's.

 

"If there's no better deal in July" is not a wise way to do business, imo. If I had to bet, i'd put my money on getting more from Uggla by waiting, than rushing it for a utility player and some unknown relief pitcher (plus, trading him to a division rival.

 

this move makes the team better right now? seriously? Now the Braves are that much better, and this helps the Marlins how?

 

 

 

lol

Deplorable move.

 

I despise this ownership a thousand times over.

 

I applaud ownership for offering an over-market contract at 4/$48 to try and keep him for beyond baseball reasons.

 

It's really shocking how this is ownership's fault. DAN TURNED DOWN THE CONTRACT. DID WE ALL MISS THAT?

 

Agreed. Not to mention BP is improved and FA has just started. No reason to think the Marlins don't continue to add players. Nolasco's extension now becomes priority number one.

Deplorable move.

 

I despise this ownership a thousand times over.

 

I applaud ownership for offering an over-market contract at 4/$48 to try and keep him for beyond baseball reasons.

 

It's really shocking how this is ownership's fault. DAN TURNED DOWN THE CONTRACT. DID WE ALL MISS THAT?

 

He can turn down the contract, and no, I did not miss that part. I can read the same news stories that you read, my friend. I'm well aware of how this went down.

 

That doesn't mean you have to deal him the first day possible to a division rival for a bag of peanuts.

Dunn looks pretty nice. Big lefty, zillions of K's. Struggled last season in only 19 innings with 17 free passes... but also 27 strikeouts, sheesh.

 

Look at his K/9 at like every level. Still gotta cut down on the walks.

 

 

Infante's a nice player, I don't have a lot to say about him. He gets on base and plays defense, not an awful thing to have. Doesn't replace Uggla's offense.

 

To echo some earlier comments, I'm mostly disgusted that Uggla insisted on 5/71.

 

Yeah dude, you're worth more than Chase Utley.

 

 

 

I'm sad he's gone but I kinda figured it was coming. Not really disgusted with the return, could be better but let's wait and see how things round out.

And yes, Uggla turning down that kind of money is maddening but it doesn't mean you rush into an impulsive trade. It means you wait until the break and trade him when demand is higher and a better deal presents itself.

 

 

And if there's no better deal in July?

 

This move allows you to address multiple issues with the team and arguably make the team better right now all things considered.

 

It is funny also that you criticize Buck's somewhat flukey 10 season and don't address Uggla's.

 

"If there's no better deal in July" is not a wise way to do business, imo. If I had to bet, i'd put my money on getting more from Uggla by waiting, than rushing it for a utility player and some unknown relief pitcher (plus, trading him to a division rival.

 

this move makes the team better right now? seriously? Now the Braves are that much better, and this helps the Marlins how?

 

lol

 

 

This move did not free up salary to further improve the team. This move exists in a vacuum. There is no such thing as context.

 

Also, "We might get something better in July even though this was the best offer right now and we didn't get any better offers last July during a career year" is a super risky way to run a franchise. There's absolutely no garauntee that you would get more in July. It's a big risk.

And yes, Uggla turning down that kind of money is maddening but it doesn't mean you rush into an impulsive trade. It means you wait until the break and trade him when demand is higher and a better deal presents itself.

 

 

And if there's no better deal in July?

 

This move allows you to address multiple issues with the team and arguably make the team better right now all things considered.

 

It is funny also that you criticize Buck's somewhat flukey 10 season and don't address Uggla's.

 

"If there's no better deal in July" is not a wise way to do business, imo. If I had to bet, i'd put my money on getting more from Uggla by waiting, than rushing it for a utility player and some unknown relief pitcher (plus, trading him to a division rival.

 

this move makes the team better right now? seriously? Now the Braves are that much better, and this helps the Marlins how?

 

 

 

lol

 

You don't see too many arguments include bad ways of doing business followed by: "if I had to bet". With that said, this was likely the best offer that included major league ready talent. This team is in win now mode.

 

I don't think the Braves improved more from this deal than the Marlins did. Uggla brings 1 thing to the table and that is HR's. Many teams across the league are going to see this as the Marlins selling high. Uggla is just not what most teams are looking for at 2B and that is a reality that hampers his value.

I'd just like to remind everyone here that 2011 we'll have a FULL season of the following players:

 

 

Mike Stanton

 

Logan Morrison

"At first, I was really upset about this trade, but because MarlinsLou said we're fine, I'm totally feeling awesome about it! "

 

Give me a break. It's a horrendous trade, and 2011 is not looking very good unless something drastic happens.

 

Why don't you focus your attention on beating the Gators for the first time in 6 years, and leave baseball to the men.

 

I'd love to see you write me something half intelligent on this math equation:

 

Buck. Infante, Webb, Dunn, Mujica, Richardson, and around $3 million to spend in 2011 > Uggla, Maybin, A. Miller

 

Go for it. I encourage you to try and balance this. But it's really an unfair question, because we have to move out Nunez, Paulino, Badenhop, and Veras first via trade or dfa, and spend the extra money to see the big picture.

"At first, I was really upset about this trade, but because MarlinsLou said we're fine, I'm totally feeling awesome about it! "

 

Give me a break. It's a horrendous trade, and 2011 is not looking very good unless something drastic happens.

 

 

Agreed. Being in the same division with the Phillies & Braves, I would say we have no shot at this point.

 

I am surprised they didn't trade Uggla to the Phillies for Jaime Moyer.

 

Can we trade owners?

I need lou's # so he can calm me down when things like this happen.

 

1-800-Druidia

 

This really isn't a big deal. The only thing all of us should be concerned about is this organization thinking Chris Coghlan is the answer in CF. These nimrods should be playing Infante/Coghlan in the infield in some combination, put Bonifacio on the bench, and go find a veteran CF for cheap somewhere to hold over the position until Scott Cousins becomes an option, or more than likely, we go find someone better. That's it. And if Dominguez turns out better this year than Coghlan or Infante, then move stuff around then.

I'd just like to remind everyone here that 2011 we'll have a FULL season of the following players:

 

 

Mike Stanton

 

Logan Morrison

 

Chris Coghlan

 

Ryan Webb, Edward Mujica, and Mike Dunn, which will be over 150 innings that don't suck

He was a positive catcher in over 4000 PA. Paulino was better sure. Buck also slugs the crap out of him. Buck is good. Huge upgrade. I don't get this. He is not worse than Baker defensively. You are just wrong.

 

Interesting site, never seen it before. I just compared Baker and Buck's fielding stats side by side and with what I see there Baker looks better overall, Paulino as well. I'll give you that though.

 

Secondly, let's ignore Infante's 2009-2010 where he is batting like .310 combined. Guys can't be late bloomers. We will penalize them for their stats 5 years ago!

 

I think it's naive to think UGGLA didn't play a bit over his head with his serious BABIP inflation. Not to mention, he isn't worth $12 million a year. Especially in 2014.

 

It's not like I'm singling out Uggla and Bakers best season, I'm using their entire careers up to this point and up to this point Baker and Uggla have put up better numbers combined. It's not penalizing, it's what they've done and I rather go by what they've done in 8 years for Infante and 6 for Buck rather then what they've done the last two. They could be late bloomers, but I see more evidence that indicates they're one or two year wonders.

 

Why aren't more of you mad at the guy who turned down $48 million? I am so much angrier at Uggla turning down $48 million than the Marlins getting what you perceive a bad trade for him.

 

I'm not actually mad we traded Uggla, said that earlier in thread. Felt it was the better move because in the long run because he is a fairly inconsistent hitter, $12m a year is a lot of cash for this club to tie a player such as Uggla up for, and I'd assumed we could get another solid starter for him which this team desperately needs at the moment to have a solid 1-5 staff. What I'm mad about is the fact that we traded within the division for what we got without seemingly pushing all that hard for anything better. This just seemed like a dump move rather then an actual attempt to get a good haul as they claimed they were looking for. For Infante and Dunn I would have given him arbi and risk it at the deadline, if it was still crap let him walk and collect the first round pick as I'm certain he'd be classed as a Type A.

 

This isn't a big deal. The only MAJOR issue with this team right now is the scary as hell quotes of beinfest wanting to groom coghlan as a CF and not inserting him at 2B/3B. This organization should sign a center fielder and play Coghlan/Infante at 2B/3B. That's the only problem here.

 

 

I don't think in the grand scheme of things it's a big deal, I just find it silly that afer thinks we're a better team with Buck today then we were with Uggla yesterday. That's mostly why I've been ranting and spewing complete BS in the last few posts.

Wow, as a Marlins fan and a Dan Uggla fan this trade hurts. I know the contract issues where there, but I always thought something would get worked out. I hate losing that kind of production, hopefully Lomo and Stanton will progress and be able to fill that huge void. As for Infante he's not the end of the world, hopefully he pushes Bonifacio out the door if anything.

Are there any CF's still out there in FA?

lets sign Infante long term. it seems to me unless we get a center fielder from free agency we are going to use cogs as a CF, and we are not going to make him switch back to the infield after playing CF. dominguez is coming, and we are going to need a second basemen. A fast guy with an obp around .360, and average around .300, if we can get him for $3 mil per year, i think he is worth it.

"At first, I was really upset about this trade, but because MarlinsLou said we're fine, I'm totally feeling awesome about it! "

 

Give me a break. It's a horrendous trade, and 2011 is not looking very good unless something drastic happens.

 

Why don't you focus your attention on beating the Gators for the first time in 6 years, and leave baseball to the men.

 

I'd love to see you write me something half intelligent on this math equation:

 

Buck. Infante, Webb, Dunn, Mujica, Richardson, and around $3 million to spend in 2011 > Uggla, Maybin, A. Miller

 

Go for it. I encourage you to try and balance this. But it's really an unfair question, because we have to move out Nunez, Paulino, Badenhop, and Veras first via trade or dfa, and spend the extra money to see the big picture.

 

Fu*king cacciarone over here...

 

Uggla, Webb, Mujica, Richardson > Buck, Infante, Dunn

 

Seriously, you're too reliant on Buck repeating his '10 numbers when there's a decent chance it doesn't happen.

I'd just like to remind everyone here that 2011 we'll have a FULL season of the following players:

 

 

Mike Stanton

 

Logan Morrison

 

Chris Coghlan

 

Ryan Webb, Edward Mujica, and Mike Dunn, which will be over 150 innings that don't suck

 

well yeah I'm just talking offense since I know everyone's panicking that Uggla's gone. Look the guy was a big offensive force. We have full seasons of Mike Stanton and Logan Morrison who are going to be AMAZING. And yes hopefully Coghlan picks up where he left off in his rookie year. And if (I know, IF) we're getting the 2010 John Buck that's a nice piece too.

 

I think they still go out and pick up a CF. Cogs really is not a good option out there with Logan in left. That's a mess.

REALLY I DONT UNDERSTAND WHAT BEINFEST THINK.

There is a reason Uggla's FMV was Infante and a LH RP. It would be naive to think otherwise.

 

There obviously is a reason. Desperate sellers get hosed every single time. If you know that the other guy is not willing to walk away empty handed ... you can get anything for pennies on the dollar.

"At first, I was really upset about this trade, but because MarlinsLou said we're fine, I'm totally feeling awesome about it! "

 

Give me a break. It's a horrendous trade, and 2011 is not looking very good unless something drastic happens.

 

Why don't you focus your attention on beating the Gators for the first time in 6 years, and leave baseball to the men.

 

I'd love to see you write me something half intelligent on this math equation:

 

Buck. Infante, Webb, Dunn, Mujica, Richardson, and around $3 million to spend in 2011 > Uggla, Maybin, A. Miller

 

Go for it. I encourage you to try and balance this. But it's really an unfair question, because we have to move out Nunez, Paulino, Badenhop, and Veras first via trade or dfa, and spend the extra money to see the big picture.

 

Fu*king cacciarone over here...

 

Uggla, Webb, Mujica, Richardson > Buck, Infante, Dunn

 

Seriously, you're too reliant on Buck repeating his '10 numbers when there's a decent chance it doesn't happen.

And $3 million yet to be spent, give or take of course. And Dunn is probably the best RP there, and Infante is going to prevent Bonifacio from starting the whole year either way (Dominguez is going to start way more games than him with the way they are talking about it). This team had nothing at catcher. Paulino is meh, Baker is coming off huge surgeries, Hayes and Davis are AAA fodder, and Skipworth sucks. They needed to do something, and they got a guy basically in his catcher prime for 3 years. I also don't know if you have watched a lot of American League. Buck certainly is free swinger, but he can hit. This isn't like Olivo swinging at everything. I don't think it's a lot to ask Buck to hit a .775 OPS during his tenure here. That's all he has to do.

 

I don't necessarily agree with this, and a lot of it is based on what is being replaced, not Uggla. We can't look at a baseball trade in a vacuum. Of course Dan is the best player, by far, here. But other things, such as SALARY and NEEDS come into play and he isn't a fit for this TEAM anymore. We couldn't just keep Uggla and build around him. Other factors my man.

 

This is nowhere near as big of a deal as people are making it.

And yes, Uggla turning down that kind of money is maddening but it doesn't mean you rush into an impulsive trade. It means you wait until the break and trade him when demand is higher and a better deal presents itself.

 

 

And if there's no better deal in July?

 

This move allows you to address multiple issues with the team and arguably make the team better right now all things considered.

 

It is funny also that you criticize Buck's somewhat flukey 10 season and don't address Uggla's.

 

"If there's no better deal in July" is not a wise way to do business, imo. If I had to bet, i'd put my money on getting more from Uggla by waiting, than rushing it for a utility player and some unknown relief pitcher (plus, trading him to a division rival.

 

this move makes the team better right now? seriously? Now the Braves are that much better, and this helps the Marlins how?

 

 

 

lol

 

You don't see too many arguments include bad ways of doing business followed by: "if I had to bet". With that said, this was likely the best offer that included major league ready talent. This team is in win now mode.

 

I don't think the Braves improved more from this deal than the Marlins did. Uggla brings 1 thing to the table and that is HR's. Many teams across the league are going to see this as the Marlins selling high. Uggla is just not what most teams are looking for at 2B and that is a reality that hampers his value.

 

 

this was likely the best offer? Rrrrrrright. Because you're in the same room as the ownership group that pulls the strings or because you said so?

 

you go on to say, "I don't think the Braves improved more from this deal than the Marlins did." So, you're pretty much saying you'd rather have Omar Infante than Dan Uggla, all things being equal.

 

We all know the Marlins Ownership are cheap and that Dan turned down their offer, but you're bonkers if you don't think the Braves improved more than the Marlins after this move.

 

Which business school did you go to?

 

lol

lol @ our offense losing nothing

 

Baseball is a team game. Uggla is certainly a phenomenal hitter, but Buck can hit and Infante is an enormous upgrade over "Maybin." As long as they can get production from 3B/CF, wherever Coghlan doesn't play, this isn't an issue. And really, I'm ignoring improvement from Stanton, Morrison, Coghlan, and Gaby. Big.

 

Defense better everywhere. Bullpen has gone from bottom 10 to top 10 overnight.

 

It's cool you don't get it. You'll just be that much happier when the Marlins are a better team in 2011 than they were in 2010.

 

Apparently the Marlins didn't "get it" until just now either.

After reading into what the Blue Jays offered for Uggla, I'm sort of happy we traded for Infante and Dunn, instead of a bunch of scrap heap minor leaguers.