November 17, 201015 yr After calming down, I'm more accepting of the trade. I still hate the fact we traded him to a division rival, but I'm willing to accept the notions and opinions of more knowledgeable posters on the board. Sometimes emotions just make you say stupid things (like I did earlier).
November 17, 201015 yr 1. Chris Coghlan 3B 2. Logan Morrison LF 3. Hanley Ramirez SS 4. Mike Stanton RF 5. Gaby Sanchez 1B 6. Omar Infante 2B 7. Emilio Bonifacio CF 8. Joe Buck C 9. P Still need a bench with more than just Cousins and Helms, and imo a #2 starter, so go out and get me Cliff Lee But seriously, Emilio Bonifacio in the starting lineup again makes me We NEED to sign a Center fielder, trade for one, something. But we need a real starting center fielder before next season starts, period.
November 17, 201015 yr Uggla was offered a fair contract and for whatever reason he turned it down. Only Uggla is responsible for leaving the Marlins. PERIOD We don't know all the details and the conversations Beinfest has had. In his opinion, this trade is the best he could arrange for the Marlins. I will miss Uggla's power also, but I won't miss his strike three helicopter swings and the 18 errors he had this season. Couldn't agree more. Sort of cooled off a little; I'm still pissed at Uggla being traded within the division, but whatever. Uggla gets a huge portion of the blame here. So with Uggla and Infante becoming free agents after 2011, this leaves the one thing about this trade in the long run: Mike Dunn. How long is he under contract? I see he's only had a few major league appearances, so it's hard for me to judge on that. Does anyone else know anything on this guy? Also, with Infante at second base, Coghlan at 3rd, does that mean another year in the minors for Dominguez? This is a good thing, right?
November 17, 201015 yr He does. C is far harder position to replace/improve upon. In Infante, if they do in fact use him as FT 2B, they have improved defensively. In a vacuum Infante/Buck > Uggla/Baker/Paulino and it isn't close. You're kidding? Buck is a terrible defensive catcher and is actually a step down from Baker. Infante/Buck's career OPS combined is .721, Ugg's/Baker/Paulino is .785. Both Infante and Buck had career years last year and played well beyond their normal stat line, expecting similar or even better performances from them is a bit naive in my opinion.
November 17, 201015 yr I'll be honest, I was pretty upset with this deal. But Lou has made the pain sting less. I hope you are right man.
November 17, 201015 yr Based on the Toronto offer, the market sucked for Uggla. So we could have either: A- Stood pat and hoped that the team would internally improve from last year with Uggla and hoped the market improved in July (no gaurantee) B- Took the best offer of major league talent to improve the team now while clearing up a bunch of salary I'm fine with this.
November 17, 201015 yr I'll be honest, I was pretty upset with this deal. But Lou has made the pain sting less. I hope you are right man. Lou is magical like that.
November 17, 201015 yr Right now 3B Coghlan LF Morrison SS Hanley 1B Sanchez RF Stanton 2B Infante C Buck CF Boni Bench Cousins Uncle Wes Hayes, then Baker Murphy Ozzie
November 17, 201015 yr Yeah, agreed with bobob here. That Toronto offer sucks royally. Makes Infante/Dunn look like Pujols/Lincecum in comparison.
November 17, 201015 yr Unbelieveable! At this point the lineup looks like a AA team. Pathetic! Good thing I still have my 1997 & 2003 videos. I really hate this place
November 17, 201015 yr Does this site have any influence on the front office? You'd think that if they read this and see that the near unanimous opinion in this thread is that the trade was a colossal f*** up, they might change their mind and go after Lee or something else big to make up for it. I suppose that's naive, but you never know.
November 17, 201015 yr Unbelieveable! At this point the lineup looks like a AA team. Pathetic! Good thing I still have my 1997 & 2003 videos. I really hate this place We love you.
November 17, 201015 yr He does. C is far harder position to replace/improve upon. In Infante, if they do in fact use him as FT 2B, they have improved defensively. In a vacuum Infante/Buck > Uggla/Baker/Paulino and it isn't close. You're kidding? Buck is a terrible defensive catcher and is actually a step down from Baker. Infante/Buck's career OPS combined is .721, Ugg's/Baker/Paulino is .785. Both Infante and Buck had career years last year and played well beyond their normal stat line, expecting similar or even better performances from them is a bit naive in my opinion. I never mentioned Buck's defense but even if he was the absolute worst defensive catcher in the league he is a substantial overall improvement over Baker. Baker isn't even rosterable, in fact, he may very well be DFA in the coming weeks. My statement re defense was re the IF. Infante is a head and shoulders better defensive 2B and while we lose HR's with the departure of Uggla you have a core than can withstand that loss with ease. With the continued improvement of Morrison, Sanchez, and Stanton the Marlins will have power to spare. You trade 15 HR's all day everyday if you can make measurable improvements to your BP and INF defense. Again, especially if you are forced. For better or for worse, Uggla forced a trade.
November 17, 201015 yr He does. C is far harder position to replace/improve upon. In Infante, if they do in fact use him as FT 2B, they have improved defensively. In a vacuum Infante/Buck > Uggla/Baker/Paulino and it isn't close. You're kidding? Buck is a terrible defensive catcher and is actually a step down from Baker. Infante/Buck's career OPS combined is .721, Ugg's/Baker/Paulino is .785. Both Infante and Buck had career years last year and played well beyond their normal stat line, expecting similar or even better performances from them is a bit naive in my opinion. If 22nd out of 120 is terrible, yes I agree. http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2010/11/10/1803183/2010-beyond-the-box-score-catcher-defense-rankings He was a positive catcher in over 4000 PA. Paulino was better sure. Buck also slugs the crap out of him. Buck is good. Huge upgrade. I don't get this. He is not worse than Baker defensively. You are just wrong. Secondly, let's ignore Infante's 2009-2010 where he is batting like .310 combined. Guys can't be late bloomers. We will penalize them for their stats 5 years ago! I think it's naive to think UGGLA didn't play a bit over his head with his serious BABIP inflation. Not to mention, he isn't worth $12 million a year. Especially in 2014. Why aren't more of you mad at the guy who turned down $48 million? I am so much angrier at Uggla turning down $48 million than the Marlins getting what you perceive a bad trade for him. This isn't a big deal. The only MAJOR issue with this team right now is the scary as hell quotes of beinfest wanting to groom coghlan as a CF and not inserting him at 2B/3B. This organization should sign a center fielder and play Coghlan/Infante at 2B/3B. That's the only problem here.
November 17, 201015 yr 2010 WAR Uggla 5.1 Paulino 1.1 Maybin .4 Buck 2.9 Infante 2.1 Whoever plays 3B/CF opposite CC needs a 1.6 Yes, I understand it is very rough math, but Uggla DID overachieve on BABIP and his defense isn't going to get better. Buck's numbers are better outside of Toronto lately and catchers usually come into their own older. Infante, has done this for two years and that is not asking for a lot. Not included in this, is the additional players we will sign with the money Uggla is not getting. Oh, and the multiple multiple relievers we have received who are all awesome. We don't live in a land of infinite payroll where we keep Uggla and add things around him. Big picture people. Our offense has lost nothing, our bullpen is better, and we have Nunez (and Paulino, Badenhop, and Veras if possible) to trade and $5 million more to spend. It would have been nice to also plop a good B+ or better SP prospect on top of Infante/Dunn (Dunn is awesome btw), but the Marlins did their due diligence. BIG PICTURE. I have -0- problems with Uggla, Maybin, and Miller trades, and the Buck free agency signing. We are a better team right now, than we were a week ago. This is all presuming that Buck plays like he did last year which I personally don't think he will and even if he does, his K/BB was still Miguel Olivo like and Infante doesn't walk either so we'd still be losing that from Uggla. And yes, Uggla turning down that kind of money is maddening but it doesn't mean you rush into an impulsive trade. It means you wait until the break and trade him when demand is higher and a better deal presents itself.
November 17, 201015 yr the thought of bonifacio in the everyday lineup should give us no hope of even challenging for a spot next year....he can hardly hit it to the warning track.
November 17, 201015 yr Author Can Infante play the outfield? He's played all 3 OF spots in his career, the most in LF.
November 17, 201015 yr Can Infante play the outfield? He's played all 3 OF spots in his career, the most in LF. If that's the case, then put Infante in center and Coghlan at 2B/3B
November 17, 201015 yr 2010 WAR Uggla 5.1 Paulino 1.1 Maybin .4 Buck 2.9 Infante 2.1 Whoever plays 3B/CF opposite CC needs a 1.6 Yes, I understand it is very rough math, but Uggla DID overachieve on BABIP and his defense isn't going to get better. Buck's numbers are better outside of Toronto lately and catchers usually come into their own older. Infante, has done this for two years and that is not asking for a lot. Not included in this, is the additional players we will sign with the money Uggla is not getting. Oh, and the multiple multiple relievers we have received who are all awesome. We don't live in a land of infinite payroll where we keep Uggla and add things around him. Big picture people. Our offense has lost nothing, our bullpen is better, and we have Nunez (and Paulino, Badenhop, and Veras if possible) to trade and $5 million more to spend. It would have been nice to also plop a good B+ or better SP prospect on top of Infante/Dunn (Dunn is awesome btw), but the Marlins did their due diligence. BIG PICTURE. I have -0- problems with Uggla, Maybin, and Miller trades, and the Buck free agency signing. We are a better team right now, than we were a week ago. This is all presuming that Buck plays like he did last year which I personally don't think he will and even if he does, his K/BB was still Miguel Olivo like and Infante doesn't walk either so we'd still be losing that from Uggla. And yes, Uggla turning down that kind of money is maddening but it doesn't mean you rush into an impulsive trade. It means you wait until the break and trade him when demand is higher and a better deal presents itself. Or they may have sold high on him. People on here were calling him out, saying he'd regress. If he ends up regressing, the front office will look maddeningly brilliant and the braves will have egg on their face. Not defending the trade, because Uggla's a douche, but I'm trying to be positive about this mess.
November 17, 201015 yr And yes, Uggla turning down that kind of money is maddening but it doesn't mean you rush into an impulsive trade. It means you wait until the break and trade him when demand is higher and a better deal presents itself. And if there's no better deal in July? This move allows you to address multiple issues with the team and arguably make the team better right now all things considered. It is funny also that you criticize Buck's somewhat flukey 10 season and don't address Uggla's.
November 17, 201015 yr Can Infante play the outfield? He's played all 3 OF spots in his career, the most in LF. Infante will play 2B/3B according to LB.
November 17, 201015 yr Can Infante play the outfield? He's played all 3 OF spots in his career, the most in LF. If that's the case, then put Infante in center and Coghlan at 2B/3B So C Buck 1B Sanchez 2B Coghlan SS Ramirez 3B Dominguez??? LF Morrison CF Infante RF Stanton I mean without a doubt the defense improves A LOT with this team, not sure about the offense, but this would fulfill Beinfest's promise of someday improving our defense. EDIT: or we can put Infante at 2B/3B and live and die in the hands of Bonifacio again
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