Why is that silly? And he's arguably not even a perfectly acceptable, above average relief pitcher, really. .

 

 

He really, really is. It's super silly to suggest that a guy with a 3.77 ERA over 133 IP with a 1.26 WHIP over two seasons with 9 K/9 and a close to 3 K:BB ratio isn't an above average relief pitcher, even with his occasional HR troubles.

 

 

Those #'s really aren't that great for a relief pitcher. Above average, sure. Those are above average #'s that you can get from a guy making league minimum, though.

 

And those are definitely not closer type #'s, for what it's worth.

 

A 1.26 WHIP from a backend of the bullpen arm is the definition of meh, especially when he has had problems allowing HR's.

At least not as much as a 3B, although you seem to think that's silly, for some reason.

 

 

We are really, really, really, really gonna have to work on your reading comprehension...

 

Check my post:

 

The only reason you could want him gone is because he makes a decent chunk of change that could potentially net us a starting caliber 3B.

 

 

Sorry about that.

It's defenitely baseball season.

387 BABIP

 

While that's sh*t luck, it's worth noting that part of that might just be that he's really hittable when he's missing location. And hitting his location is something he's always be rather inconsistent at; it's the reason why people are stupid with him and think he needs another pitch (slider). He doesn't need another pitch; he just needs to locate his changeup, consistently and use his fastball some more.

 

All in all, it's getting to the point where it's put up or shut up time for him. It's his 3rd year in the role, and the Marlins can't wait to make a switch if he starts struggling. His bad outings seem to come in spurts and I really hope that's not the case this year.

 

 

Nobody consistently puts up .387 BABIP. He didn't put up a .387 because he's "really hittable." His BABIP was perfectly reasonable in the first half last season (if maybe a little bit low) and then balooned in the 2nd half, while his K and BB stayed essentially the same. His HR rate went up, but he gave up less 2B and 3B. 4 HRs instead of 1 was regression to the mean, a .387 BABIP isn't.

Those are above average #'s that you can get from a guy making league minimum, though.

 

If you get really, really lucky or have a young prospect.

 

The only knock against him is salary. His performance is more than acceptable.

 

Guys who make the league minimum are either in their first three years or replacement level pitchers. To imply that what Leo gives us can be easily picked up off the scrap heap is absurd.

Nunez isn't worth what we're paying him, relative to what we're paying everyone else, and what we're paying the guy who's down at AAA as a reserve. He can net us a 3B that we desperately need now.

Those are above average #'s that you can get from a guy making league minimum, though.

 

If you get really, really lucky or have a young prospect.

 

The only knock against him is salary. His performance is more than acceptable.

 

Guys who make the league minimum are either in their first three years or replacement level pitchers. To imply that what Leo gives us can be easily picked up off the scrap heap is absurd.

 

 

No, it's not. It happens every year because relievers rise and fall each and every year.

 

Jose friggin' Veras put up the identical ERA/WHIP #'s you put up for Leo's past two seasons, for this team last year. It happens every year. Clay Hensley came out of nowhere and put up phenomenal numbers. There's no need to pay for relievers, especially for non-elite ones.

 

And under the current scenario, the Marlins do not need Leo Nunez. The Marlins have Burke Badenhop in the minor leagues. That's how much depth this organization currently has; You know who has identical ERA/WHIP #'s to Leo Nunez the last two years with more innings pitched? Burke friggin' Badenhop.

 

Leo Nunez is not needed here. I'm not saying he's a bad reliever; I'm just saying it was stupid to keep him, and I've been saying it since before the season began. Actually, I'm pretty sure you agree with me, when I say that he should have been traded in the offseason.

Nunez isn't worth what we're paying him, relative to what we're paying everyone else, and what we're paying the guy who's down at AAA as a reserve. He can net us a 3B that we desperately need now.

 

 

I'm always down to trade from an organizational position of strength to pick up an organizational position of weakness. I'm totally down with trading Leo to get a 3B.

 

But not because I think he's a bad player by any means, and if we didn't have a hole to fill, I'd gladly slot him in at the end of the pen and take his decidedly above average performanc.

 

I just think trading him gives us the best flexibility in who we receive in return, because we can take on a larger salary. That's the only reason I'd advocate trading him.

Nunez isn't worth what we're paying him, relative to what we're paying everyone else, and what we're paying the guy who's down at AAA as a reserve. He can net us a 3B that we desperately need now.

 

 

I'm always down to trade from an organizational position of strength to pick up an organizational position of weakness. I'm totally down with trading Leo to get a 3B.

 

But not because I think he's a bad player by any means, and if we didn't have a hole to fill, I'd gladly slot him in at the end of the pen and take his decidedly above average performanc.

 

I just think trading him gives us the best flexibility in who we receive in return, because we can take on a larger salary. That's the only reason I'd advocate trading him.

 

 

I don't think he's a bad pitcher per se, but I don't think he is worth what we're paying him given the (on-paper) state of our bullpen and the fact that we've got a reserve in Badenhop. 3B is a mess right now with Dominguez going down and Murphy perhaps down as well. I wouldn't be shocked if the front office made a move, and I hope it's Leo who we ship out. We could essentially absorb a half-decent 3B with 2M, I believe.

Its kinda hard to remember what was good about this game other then some great pick me ups from the bench guys when needed, minus the professional. Ricky had a solid start compared to some starts we were seeing in Spring so thats always encouraging. Im liking what i have seen from Dunn, cant hold the game against him on that. Clay has been strong. You never know what your getting from Nunez and thats tiring.

 

Hopefully Donnie's alright.

 

Boo...to this game. I dislike the mets.

Whatever the bullpen did or did not do, we had the bases loaded in a tie game in the bottom of the 9th with Infante up...lost the game right there.

 

 

There were also 2 outs. Infante has had a .360 OBP the last two years, so he had a 74% chance of making a single out. That's not a situation where you lose a game. More often than not, you don't get a hit.

 

true. but how many times have teams buried us like that. give credit to rodriguez on the pitch but u gotta put the game away there.

 

AND WOULD SOMEBODY PLEASE BREAK JOSH THOLE'S LEGS!!

Ricky being Ricky giving up still another home run. Great defense

struggling bullpen

No, it's not. It happens every year because relievers rise and fall each and every year.

 

Jose friggin' Veras put up the identical ERA/WHIP #'s you put up for Leo's past two seasons, for this team last year. It happens every year. Clay Hensley came out of nowhere and put up phenomenal numbers. There's no need to pay for relievers, especially for non-elite ones.

 

And under the current scenario, the Marlins do not need Leo Nunez. The Marlins have Burke Badenhop in the minor leagues. That's how much depth this organization currently has; You know who has identical ERA/WHIP #'s to Leo Nunez the last two years with more innings pitched? Burke friggin' Badenhop.

 

Jose Veras put up one season of good pitching, and had a 5.2 ERA prior. Those guys who put up those single years of great pitching are not pitching to their talent level. Generally speaking, they are pitching way above it, and that's why they fall back to earth. You can't count on those guys, as the Marlins showed last year.

 

Leo is pitching at his talent level, and that talent level is an above average reliever overall, even given everything you want to put on him.

 

Is he worth 3.65 mil in today's MLB? Absolutely! That's chump change for an above average reliever.

 

That his 3.65 mil could be used in better ways for this specific team doesn't mean he's not worth the money. It just means that, given a fixed budget, the Marlins have to prioritize. If they had a 3B who could play at a league average rate, Leo would absolutely be worth that money.

No, it's not. It happens every year because relievers rise and fall each and every year.

 

Jose friggin' Veras put up the identical ERA/WHIP #'s you put up for Leo's past two seasons, for this team last year. It happens every year. Clay Hensley came out of nowhere and put up phenomenal numbers. There's no need to pay for relievers, especially for non-elite ones.

 

And under the current scenario, the Marlins do not need Leo Nunez. The Marlins have Burke Badenhop in the minor leagues. That's how much depth this organization currently has; You know who has identical ERA/WHIP #'s to Leo Nunez the last two years with more innings pitched? Burke friggin' Badenhop.

 

Jose Veras put up one season of good pitching, and had a 5.2 ERA prior. Those guys who put up those single years of great pitching are not pitching to their talent level. Generally speaking, they are pitching way above it, and that's why they fall back to earth. You can't count on those guys, as the Marlins showed last year.

 

Leo is pitching at his talent level, and that talent level is an above average reliever overall, even given everything you want to put on him.

 

Is he worth 3.65 mil in today's MLB? Absolutely! That's chump change for an above average reliever.

 

That his 3.65 mil could be used in better ways for this specific team doesn't mean he's not worth the money. It just means that, given a fixed budget, the Marlins have to prioritize. If they had a 3B who could play at a league average rate, Leo would absolutely be worth that money.

 

 

Leo Nunez has only had one good year in the big leagues. Granted, his pitch sequences/role are different now than they were earlier in his career, but still; he's only had one good season in the big leagues, and the overall results were not great. That year was last year; his first year here, he was actually really bad.

 

He's not a consistently proven above average relief pitcher. He's a guy who had an above average year last year, and might be capable of more based on his stuff/upside. But lets not pretend that he's been some sort of consistent pitcher over the years.

Erick wins. And Hensley > Nunez.

No, it's not. It happens every year because relievers rise and fall each and every year.

 

Jose friggin' Veras put up the identical ERA/WHIP #'s you put up for Leo's past two seasons, for this team last year. It happens every year. Clay Hensley came out of nowhere and put up phenomenal numbers. There's no need to pay for relievers, especially for non-elite ones.

 

And under the current scenario, the Marlins do not need Leo Nunez. The Marlins have Burke Badenhop in the minor leagues. That's how much depth this organization currently has; You know who has identical ERA/WHIP #'s to Leo Nunez the last two years with more innings pitched? Burke friggin' Badenhop.

 

Jose Veras put up one season of good pitching, and had a 5.2 ERA prior. Those guys who put up those single years of great pitching are not pitching to their talent level. Generally speaking, they are pitching way above it, and that's why they fall back to earth. You can't count on those guys, as the Marlins showed last year.

 

Leo is pitching at his talent level, and that talent level is an above average reliever overall, even given everything you want to put on him.

 

Is he worth 3.65 mil in today's MLB? Absolutely! That's chump change for an above average reliever.

 

That his 3.65 mil could be used in better ways for this specific team doesn't mean he's not worth the money. It just means that, given a fixed budget, the Marlins have to prioritize. If they had a 3B who could play at a league average rate, Leo would absolutely be worth that money.

 

 

Leo Nunez has only had one good year in the big leagues. Granted, his pitch sequences/role are different now than they were earlier in his career, but still; he's only had one good season in the big leagues, and the overall results were not great. That year was last year; his first year here, he was actually really bad.

 

He's not a consistently proven above average relief pitcher. He's a guy who had an above average year last year, and might be capable of more based on his stuff/upside. But lets not pretend that he's been some sort of consistent pitcher over the years.

 

 

Leo was an essentially average reliever in 2009 (Leage average ERA was 4.00, he was 4.06), and in 2010 he was a half run better than average.

 

In 2010 he had one terrible month (9 ERA) and was pretty great other than that.

 

Is he elite? No, but he's not making elite money. But he's a guy who is probably going to settle into 1 HR/9, 3 BB/9, 9 K/9. He should be above average. All things considered, he's worth 3.65 million in the majors.

 

All of those reasons are also why, let's not forget, we all think he could fetch us a decent, usable third baseman. If he was as bad as his reputation seems to say, he wouldn't fetch us anything worth starting in a trade. But he's got value because he has a relatively inexpensive contract and should be reliably above average.

And Hensley > Nunez.

 

That says nothing about Nunez.

No, it's not. It happens every year because relievers rise and fall each and every year.

 

Jose friggin' Veras put up the identical ERA/WHIP #'s you put up for Leo's past two seasons, for this team last year. It happens every year. Clay Hensley came out of nowhere and put up phenomenal numbers. There's no need to pay for relievers, especially for non-elite ones.

 

And under the current scenario, the Marlins do not need Leo Nunez. The Marlins have Burke Badenhop in the minor leagues. That's how much depth this organization currently has; You know who has identical ERA/WHIP #'s to Leo Nunez the last two years with more innings pitched? Burke friggin' Badenhop.

 

Jose Veras put up one season of good pitching, and had a 5.2 ERA prior. Those guys who put up those single years of great pitching are not pitching to their talent level. Generally speaking, they are pitching way above it, and that's why they fall back to earth. You can't count on those guys, as the Marlins showed last year.

 

Leo is pitching at his talent level, and that talent level is an above average reliever overall, even given everything you want to put on him.

 

Is he worth 3.65 mil in today's MLB? Absolutely! That's chump change for an above average reliever.

 

That his 3.65 mil could be used in better ways for this specific team doesn't mean he's not worth the money. It just means that, given a fixed budget, the Marlins have to prioritize. If they had a 3B who could play at a league average rate, Leo would absolutely be worth that money.

 

 

Leo Nunez has only had one good year in the big leagues. Granted, his pitch sequences/role are different now than they were earlier in his career, but still; he's only had one good season in the big leagues, and the overall results were not great. That year was last year; his first year here, he was actually really bad.

 

He's not a consistently proven above average relief pitcher. He's a guy who had an above average year last year, and might be capable of more based on his stuff/upside. But lets not pretend that he's been some sort of consistent pitcher over the years.

 

 

Leo was an essentially average reliever in 2009 (Leage average ERA was 4.00, he was 4.06), and in 2010 he was a half run better than average.

 

In 2010 he had one terrible month (9 ERA) and was pretty great other than that.

 

Is he elite? No, but he's not making elite money. But he's a guy who is probably going to settle into 1 HR/9, 3 BB/9, 9 K/9. He should be above average. All things considered, he's worth 3.65 million in the majors.

 

All of those reasons are also why, let's not forget, we all think he could fetch us a decent, usable third baseman. If he was as bad as his reputation seems to say, he wouldn't fetch us anything worth starting in a trade. But he's got value because he has a relatively inexpensive contract and should be reliably above average.

 

 

Just as you say he was extremely unlucky in the 2nd half last year, I can easily counter by saying that his 4.06 ERA in 2009 was an extremely lucky 4.06 ERA. He was well below average in 2009; fortunately, he's gotten better since then.

 

In '09, he had a 1.7 HR/9, 3.5 BB/9, and a 5.17 FIP/4.35 xFIP. He actually had a negative WAR in '09. His WHIP looked decent because his .babip (.243) was incredibly lucky/the complete opposite of last year, which was unlucky.

 

It would actually be good if he could repeat exactly what he did last year because if he does, his ERA has a good chance of being lower than 3.46, especially with a better infield defense this year. However, it's unknown whether or not he'll be the same guy he was last year, and I don't feel like paying 3.6 million dollars for an unknown, especially when that unknown just so happens to be a position of strength, and we have other areas of need on this team.

There are two seperate things to take into account. Is Leo a good pitcher; and is Leo worth the money to this team, given it's other needs. They don't really have anything to do with eachother. And there are definitely Marlins fans who would answer "No" to both questions. They'd be silly for doing so. That's really my only point. I would answer "Yes; No" to those questions.

There are two seperate things to take into account. Is Leo a good pitcher; and is Leo worth the money to this team, given it's other needs. They don't really have anything to do with eachother. And there are definitely Marlins fans who would answer "No" to both questions. They'd be silly for doing so. That's really my only point. I would answer "Yes; No" to those questions.

 

 

 

I would answer "probably; no" to those questions.

It's difficult to give a definitive yes when he's only had one good year, and his overall numbers are rather unspectacular.

Win some, lose some. Just win the series tomorrow

There are two seperate things to take into account. Is Leo a good pitcher; and is Leo worth the money to this team, given it's other needs. They don't really have anything to do with eachother. And there are definitely Marlins fans who would answer "No" to both questions. They'd be silly for doing so. That's really my only point. I would answer "Yes; No" to those questions.

 

 

 

I would answer "probably; no" to those questions.

It's difficult to give a definitive yes when he's only had one good year, and his overall numbers are rather unspectacular.

 

3.92, 2.98, 4.06, 3.46.

 

Am I missing something? Those are Nunez's last 4 years. 2 that are, at worst, average, and two that are pretty darn good. And he's in his prime now. He has consistently shown the ability to be average at worst, and good++ at best.

There are two seperate things to take into account. Is Leo a good pitcher; and is Leo worth the money to this team, given it's other needs. They don't really have anything to do with eachother. And there are definitely Marlins fans who would answer "No" to both questions. They'd be silly for doing so. That's really my only point. I would answer "Yes; No" to those questions.

 

 

 

I would answer "probably; no" to those questions.

It's difficult to give a definitive yes when he's only had one good year, and his overall numbers are rather unspectacular.

 

3.92, 2.98, 4.06, 3.46.

 

Am I missing something? Those are Nunez's last 4 years. 2 that are, at worst, average, and two that are pretty darn good. And he's in his prime now. He has consistently shown the ability to be average at worst, and good++ at best.

 

 

ERA for relievers is a misleading stat when used alone without looking at everything else.

 

That 3.92 year, again, was not that great. Only 43 innings and it was also a 4.61 FIP year, which shows he was lucky.

The 2.98 year was also a 5.06 xFIP with a pathetic 4.84 K/9.

I already mentioned his 4.06 year. Sorry but that was just a horrible year. That was his first year here, when he allowed 13 HR's and had a negative impact on the team (-0.7 WAR).

 

All in all, those years were very unspectacular. I know WAR is not the God of stats, but he has a career 1.6 WAR, and 1.5 of that came last year. His only impressive year was last year; the rest of his career is mediocrity.

Crappy loss. Good to see team battle back though in 9th and 10th.

 

Just win tomorrow....well, this afternoon.

Insert Stanton and this may very well have been a win.