Very good post, there are so many "Elitist" here that it makes it sometimes unpleasant to even post here.

 

Fortunately the nice people here outweigh them so its still a fun board to visit.

 

Seriously tho some people here need to learn to chill, its only a game.

 

 

I mean this in no offense because I try to be as non-confrontational as possible but I see no elitist posts in this thread, whatsoever. And in regards to the 'situation' at hand, also no elitist posters as well.

 

This is an overreaction. People here are friendly. People get along. Trust me, as a member of several message boards on top of MarlinsBaseball.com (MB.com being my 'home' forum, if you will), it doesn't get much nicer than here.

 

I found Bobbobs reply to my post to be "elitist" in tone. He could have just as easily replied with something like. "I'd have to disagree with you Zero's I think Beinfest is doing a good job because of blah blah blah" etc.

 

His reply was "Uhhhhhhhhhh" like my post was so stupid for him that he couldn't take a minute to use his brain for a reply.

 

Doesn't that not sound "elitist" to you? I mean if it doesn't its ok cuz I actually value your opinion.

 

The fact is there was a better and nicer way to respond to my post. I am pretty sure he doesn't act like that in the "real world" but on the internet its easy to be rude cause there are no repercussions.

 

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

I see what you did there, good work.

UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

Sounds like everyone is having an orgasm in this thread!

I found Bobbobs reply to my post to be "elitist" in tone. He could have just as easily replied with something like. "I'd have to disagree with you Zero's I think Beinfest is doing a good job because of blah blah blah" etc.

 

His reply was "Uhhhhhhhhhh" like my post was so stupid for him that he couldn't take a minute to use his brain for a reply.

 

Doesn't that not sound "elitist" to you? I mean if it doesn't its ok cuz I actually value your opinion.

 

The fact is there was a better and nicer way to respond to my post. I am pretty sure he doesn't act like that in the "real world" but on the internet its easy to be rude cause there are no repercussions.

 

 

It's not necessarily elitist. Yeah, it could be more pleasant of course. But he's bobbob. If you post here more often and you interact with him you'll see he's an enjoyable poster. There's no reason to take it personally.

 

Yeah, there's a nicer way to respond to the post. I wish people were nicer. That doesn't necessarily mean that everyone is perfect or should be perfect. In person, I doubt he would respond like that. I wish people could be more courteous over the internet and act like they would in real life. It would be better, but unfortunately that's not how the internet works. But bobbob is hardly the problem and hardly relates to that. Like I said before and I'll say again, it get's a whole lot worse. MB.com is a very friendly environment... if a dumb pause is all you get when someone disagrees with you, it's not that big of a deal. In fact, if you never bring it up, respond to it in any fashion or sort, or anything like that, chances are bobbob will forget your name, you will forget about it, and it likely will never have a spot in your memory.

 

 

 

*insert uhhhhhhhhh sexy grunt*

I didn't think Mike Cameron was still in baseball anymore. Maybe we can try Preston Wilson next.

 

 

At least Preston Wilson could knock in runs with the bases loaded...i.e. a little dribbler past the mound down the 3rd baseline

1. Brett Hayes has a .669 career minor league OPS, and Brad Davis' isn't much better. Hayes has been cool this year, but in an insanely small sample size. That's a terrible idea and would give us the same holes we have now.

 

Brett Hayes has been better than Buck and while Hayes sample size is low getting Buck after one good season is about the same risk I would say IMO ( oh wait I forgot you don't like those ).

 

 

Brett Hayes has been better this year, but he's been dreadful throughout his entire professional career prior to this, and he's likely to be dreadful going forward, and in fact since the start of may, has a .618, so it's already happening.

 

Saying that going with Brett Hayes and Brad Davis would have been a better option is based on absolutely nothing.

 

 

2. Michael Young is owed $48 million from 2011-2013 and would have cost us a prospect.

 

You have to spend money to make money.

 

Young would have added a .300 hitter to the lineup and put Dobbs back on the bench where he belongs. Dobbs on the bench actually fills the hole we have on the weak bench.

 

Young in the lineup can also be used to protect Stanton so maybe Stanton can get better pitches to look at.

 

We could have used Young primarily this year and next year and if he starts tailing off around next year hopefully Dominguez would have gotten enough experience and we could start incorporating him into the lineup.

 

 

 

You have to spend money wisely. Killing Beinfest for spending 18 over 3 years on Buck and then saying we should have traded prospects to get Michael Young for 48 million is ridiculous.

 

Michael Young spends half of his games hitting in one of the most hitter friendly parks in baseball. His career OPS away from the Ballpark in Arlington is .733. This year, his OPS away from Arlington is .733. He's a completely average hitter away from Arlington.

 

He's also NEVER been a good defensive player. You don't spend 16 million on a 35 year old and who can't hit outside of Arlington and who is a dreadful defender because, hey, "You have to spend money to make money." That's horrible logic.

 

3. Trading a PTBNL for Mike Cameron making the minimum is not stopping us from selling pieces off in 3 weeks.

 

It's also not necessarily going to make us any better, even with Coghlan sucking he was hitting about as good as Cameron. Coghlan also has the chance of going on a tear like he has in previous years.

 

We have plenty of players that can currently play OF and wasn't an area that we needed to address.

 

 

 

Coghlan is hurt right now. Who knows how long he'll be out for. Yeah, MIke Cameron probably won't be better than Chris Coghlan. But right now, Chris Coghlan isn't here. And Mike Cameron cost us nothing.

 

Criticizing this move is just reaching for something to criticize. No, it's not a need; it's a low risk option to potential get some value. CF Is definitely an area we need to address, because we've gotten horrible production from CF this year.

 

This move doesn't make us any worse right now, and it doesn't hinder us from doing anything in the future. There's zero reason to complain about it.

 

4. Regardless of the value of the team, Beinfest can only spend what Loria allots him, and your criticism was aimed specifically at Beinfest, so that is 100% irrelevant.

 

Your rational of don't complain cause you can't do better by giving me examples is flawed. Beinfest has been in this business for years and has a ton more experience than I ever will putting a team together. I voiced my displeasure of his moves "LATELY" which is in my right to do. Telling me I have no right to complain because you think I can't do a better job than Beinfest is silly.

 

If I buy a Mustang and it breaks down constantly do I have no right to complain about Ford because I can't build a better Mustang with my bare hands? Thats silly

 

 

Criticism that don't have at least the pretension of construction behind them are absolutely worthless. Saying things like "This is what we have to look forward to lol. Great signing, Admin Beinfest must really want his job..." and "Vazquez, Buck, Wise, Lopez...Lately Beinfest is a f***ing genius." are just bitching for bitching's sake. If you're going to criticize someone, and you want to be taken seriously, bring something to the table.

 

Hiding behind "I HAVE THE RIGHT TO COMPLAIN" is stupid. Of course you have the right to complain. And anyone else has the right to call you out for having no substance behind it. Don't say something if you're going to hide from it; that's what you did.

 

I'd think Beinfest was more of an idiot for trading away prospects for the right to pay Michael Young $50 million for the next three years. That's a stupid move, 100%. You don't just throw money out and say "YOU HAVE TO SPEND TO MAKE." If that's your business philosophy, to just make it rain on whatever, than you're going to go out of business real quick. So far, every suggest you've had has been, quite frankly, terrible, and would have made the club marginally better AT BEST while adding mountains of salary for the future, which would be a terrible thing to do.

 

Just having an opinion doesn't make it legitimate. If you want to have your opinion, have it. But if you share it, don't be surprised when people respond.

I found Bobbobs reply to my post to be "elitist" in tone. He could have just as easily replied with something like. "I'd have to disagree with you Zero's I think Beinfest is doing a good job because of blah blah blah" etc.

 

His reply was "Uhhhhhhhhhh" like my post was so stupid for him that he couldn't take a minute to use his brain for a reply.

 

Doesn't that not sound "elitist" to you? I mean if it doesn't its ok cuz I actually value your opinion.

 

The fact is there was a better and nicer way to respond to my post. I am pretty sure he doesn't act like that in the "real world" but on the internet its easy to be rude cause there are no repercussions.

 

 

It's not necessarily elitist. Yeah, it could be more pleasant of course. But he's bobbob. If you post here more often and you interact with him you'll see he's an enjoyable poster. There's no reason to take it personally.

 

Yeah, there's a nicer way to respond to the post. I wish people were nicer. That doesn't necessarily mean that everyone is perfect or should be perfect. In person, I doubt he would respond like that. I wish people could be more courteous over the internet and act like they would in real life. It would be better, but unfortunately that's not how the internet works. But bobbob is hardly the problem and hardly relates to that. Like I said before and I'll say again, it get's a whole lot worse. MB.com is a very friendly environment... if a dumb pause is all you get when someone disagrees with you, it's not that big of a deal. In fact, if you never bring it up, respond to it in any fashion or sort, or anything like that, chances are bobbob will forget your name, you will forget about it, and it likely will never have a spot in your memory.

 

 

 

*insert uhhhhhhhhh sexy grunt*

 

I talk to the people here about sports like I talk to my friends, and if my friends say something stupid, everyone laughs at him and calls him stupid. And then you move on and try not to say something stupid the next time. To a stranger, I wouldn't. But I don't think the people on here are strangers in the traditional sense that the guy on the street is. You choose to be here and take part in conversations, just like you choose to discuss things with friends. I don't think we should pretend we're all anonymous.

 

And if you think I'm hiding behind an internet identity, there's a number of people here who know who I am and have met me in real life, so this isn't the result of the anonymity of the internet.

 

I think people should be held to a higher standard than "OH IT'S MY OPINION." Nobody's opinion has inherent value. It has the value you put into it. If that makes me an elitist, so be it.

Which was my assumption. Of course, I didn't want to post said assumptions without actually knowing.

I can vouch for bobbob's last post.

I can vouch for bobbob's last post.

 

Uhhhhhhhhhhgasm.

I can vouch for bobbob's last post.

 

 

I can vouch that Rab of the Bethan is a deity of MB.com.

 

He even took the time to provide a Rich a& Tommy soundclip for me on YouTube or something of the sort when they answered my only email into the show. And naturally I wasn't there.

I've made my argument on what I actually think about baseball, and you don't seem to care about what I (or anyone who doesn't agree with you) says, so I'm just going to go for this one.

 

Your sig says more than one thing about you, I don't really need to go on anything else, and hell if thats what gets you through life good for you.

 

Why don't you just get out and say what you want to say? What does it say about me?

 

You seem to have an issue with me for... I don't know... for people liking what I have to say and that I have a positive reputation. When it comes to me, your almost never actually try to argue your point. Usually, I get "I'm supposed to believe you because you're 'Rab' or something?" and then something like " :whistle ", which is ridiculous.

 

And on that point of when we argue, I honestly only remember right now and a few nights ago in the game thread. You make it sound like I have some long history of antagonizing you and I barely recollect us ever interacting.

 

As far as smart ass comments go... well, I'm just a smartass. And I often use my wit like you use your emoticons.

I've made my argument on what I actually think about baseball, and you don't seem to care about what I (or anyone who doesn't agree with you) says, so I'm just going to go for this one.

 

 

Your sig says more than one thing about you, I don't really need to go on anything else, and hell if thats what gets you through life good for you.

 

Why don't you just get out and say what you want to say? What does it say about me?

 

You seem to have an issue with me for... I don't know... for people liking what I have to say and that I have a positive reputation. When it comes to me, your almost never actually try to argue your point. Usually, I get "I'm supposed to believe you because you're 'Rab' or something?" and then something like " :whistle ", which is ridiculous.

 

And on that point of when we argue, I honestly only remember right now and a few nights ago in the game thread. You make it sound like I have some long history of antagonizing you and I barely recollect us ever interacting.

 

As far as smart ass comments go... well, I'm just a smartass. And I often use my wit like you use your emoticons.

Rab, you could have torn him a bigger new one.

Ah well.

 

I guess I'll end this with...

 

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

What does Helms have to do with this?

 

And Cameron's probably going to get his fair share of starts in CF. The fact that a non-contending team just traded for a 38-year old with no future in the sport is basically a waste of time. The season is over; they should start selling, instead of making lateral moves that make no difference, whatsoever. The only thing this does is take away playing time from Petersen who could actually help this organization in the near future as a 4th OF'er, etc. They should be evaluating him more, instead of wasting their time on this has-been.

 

 

I agree completely. Erick is hell freezing over?

[Has Beinfest been touting the Lopez, Wise, or Cameron moves as season savers? Has anyone?

 

They are minor moves to try to get a small advantages. In a season where we just lost 15/16 one run games, small advantages can help.

 

However, rather than just criticizing Beinfest, give us some moves you'd like to see him make right now to turn this season around? You keep killing him, so let's hear what you think he could and should do to make this season better.

 

My guess is you don't have any. My guess is you're criticizing for criticism's sake, and you won't bring anything legitimate to the table. Prove me wrong. But generally speaking, anyone who uses "retarded" as an insult doesn't have much to bring anyways, so my hopes are understandably low.

 

 

Amen. All this criticism as if there are currently better moves for Beinfest to make. There are no better moves that he can right now, this move is nothing for anyone to complain about. It might not be a big help but it doesnt hurt either.

Other than if it takes time from Petersen's development. That would be a mistake.

Oh just so everyone knows I'm not expecting Cameron to hit .400 in his 1st month as a Marlin, not do I think he will come out and be some hidden superstar we had lacked, if he does fantastic!

 

It also bring up the CC question? Is his injury more severe, i don't even know what was wrong with him but he has been on the DL for sometime.

 

Maybe the FO isn't even going to consider CC anymore, which would be sad considering what he did in 09.

 

 

I wonder if there is more to the Coghlan story than what we have been told. He was sent down, then all of a sudden had an injury.

 

Maybe he got really huffy with the FO, like name calling and all that jazz, and doesn't want to be with the Marlins anymore. He refused to go down, and now they are just putting him on ice to teach him a lesson to not f**k with the FO? Could they be looking to trade him this off-season? Something just doesn't seem right about all of this.

 

All just speculation on my part, nothing else. What else do we have to do right now? Not like we need to be discussing post-season rosters LOL.

1. Brett Hayes has a .669 career minor league OPS, and Brad Davis' isn't much better. Hayes has been cool this year, but in an insanely small sample size. That's a terrible idea and would give us the same holes we have now.

 

Brett Hayes has been better than Buck and while Hayes sample size is low getting Buck after one good season is about the same risk I would say IMO ( oh wait I forgot you don't like those ).

 

 

Brett Hayes has been better this year, but he's been dreadful throughout his entire professional career prior to this, and he's likely to be dreadful going forward, and in fact since the start of may, has a .618, so it's already happening.

 

Saying that going with Brett Hayes and Brad Davis would have been a better option is based on absolutely nothing.

 

 

2. Michael Young is owed $48 million from 2011-2013 and would have cost us a prospect.

 

You have to spend money to make money.

 

Young would have added a .300 hitter to the lineup and put Dobbs back on the bench where he belongs. Dobbs on the bench actually fills the hole we have on the weak bench.

 

Young in the lineup can also be used to protect Stanton so maybe Stanton can get better pitches to look at.

 

We could have used Young primarily this year and next year and if he starts tailing off around next year hopefully Dominguez would have gotten enough experience and we could start incorporating him into the lineup.

 

 

 

You have to spend money wisely. Killing Beinfest for spending 18 over 3 years on Buck and then saying we should have traded prospects to get Michael Young for 48 million is ridiculous.

 

Michael Young spends half of his games hitting in one of the most hitter friendly parks in baseball. His career OPS away from the Ballpark in Arlington is .733. This year, his OPS away from Arlington is .733. He's a completely average hitter away from Arlington.

 

He's also NEVER been a good defensive player. You don't spend 16 million on a 35 year old and who can't hit outside of Arlington and who is a dreadful defender because, hey, "You have to spend money to make money." That's horrible logic.

 

3. Trading a PTBNL for Mike Cameron making the minimum is not stopping us from selling pieces off in 3 weeks.

 

It's also not necessarily going to make us any better, even with Coghlan sucking he was hitting about as good as Cameron. Coghlan also has the chance of going on a tear like he has in previous years.

 

We have plenty of players that can currently play OF and wasn't an area that we needed to address.

 

 

 

Coghlan is hurt right now. Who knows how long he'll be out for. Yeah, MIke Cameron probably won't be better than Chris Coghlan. But right now, Chris Coghlan isn't here. And Mike Cameron cost us nothing.

 

Criticizing this move is just reaching for something to criticize. No, it's not a need; it's a low risk option to potential get some value. CF Is definitely an area we need to address, because we've gotten horrible production from CF this year.

 

This move doesn't make us any worse right now, and it doesn't hinder us from doing anything in the future. There's zero reason to complain about it.

 

4. Regardless of the value of the team, Beinfest can only spend what Loria allots him, and your criticism was aimed specifically at Beinfest, so that is 100% irrelevant.

 

Your rational of don't complain cause you can't do better by giving me examples is flawed. Beinfest has been in this business for years and has a ton more experience than I ever will putting a team together. I voiced my displeasure of his moves "LATELY" which is in my right to do. Telling me I have no right to complain because you think I can't do a better job than Beinfest is silly.

 

If I buy a Mustang and it breaks down constantly do I have no right to complain about Ford because I can't build a better Mustang with my bare hands? Thats silly

 

 

Criticism that don't have at least the pretension of construction behind them are absolutely worthless. Saying things like "This is what we have to look forward to lol. Great signing, Admin Beinfest must really want his job..." and "Vazquez, Buck, Wise, Lopez...Lately Beinfest is a f***ing genius." are just bitching for bitching's sake. If you're going to criticize someone, and you want to be taken seriously, bring something to the table.

 

Hiding behind "I HAVE THE RIGHT TO COMPLAIN" is stupid. Of course you have the right to complain. And anyone else has the right to call you out for having no substance behind it. Don't say something if you're going to hide from it; that's what you did.

 

I'd think Beinfest was more of an idiot for trading away prospects for the right to pay Michael Young $50 million for the next three years. That's a stupid move, 100%. You don't just throw money out and say "YOU HAVE TO SPEND TO MAKE." If that's your business philosophy, to just make it rain on whatever, than you're going to go out of business real quick. So far, every suggest you've had has been, quite frankly, terrible, and would have made the club marginally better AT BEST while adding mountains of salary for the future, which would be a terrible thing to do.

 

Just having an opinion doesn't make it legitimate. If you want to have your opinion, have it. But if you share it, don't be surprised when people respond.

 

I disagree, I think paying a 7x all-star career .300 hitter 16 Million a year is worth it considering we are trying to build a fan base going into a new ball park. Read reply's to Frisaro's articles in MLB.com and you will see how many fans are upset at the Marlins and the product on the field.

 

We could have had Gaby and Young in the all-star team this year which would have given us more national exposure.

 

I think at this moment in time we need Young more than ever in so many levels. We lost 20+ games in June, more than half I believe were 1 run games. I think a .300 hitter would have been fantastic in those games considering our poor offense.

 

You believe getting Young would not have been a good move. That's your opinion, I disagree I see potential returns you don't. In business there are risks like signing Buck and Vazquez, I give Beinfest props for trying I mean he could have gotten nobody. I just think Young has more overall value to the team and the fans.

 

 

I also have no problem with you disagreeing with me and when I post something I am fine with someone commenting on it. Most of us are here to talk about the Marlins among other fans. You could have voiced your opinion in a different way. I guess I was just brought up to treat everyone with respect.

This team seriously needs to start winning again...

 

That would cure a lot of things sweetie. All this animosity. Its not fun.

UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

Sounds like everyone is having an orgasm in this thread!

 

 

"I'll have what she's having" :lol

UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

Sounds like everyone is having an orgasm in this thread!

 

 

"I'll have what she's having" :lol

 

Now wait..is this Jalena speaking or your son ?

Young would have added a .300 hitter to the lineup and put Dobbs back on the bench where he belongs. Dobbs on the bench actually fills the hole we have on the weak bench.

 

Young in the lineup can also be used to protect Stanton so maybe Stanton can get better pitches to look at.

 

We could have used Young primarily this year and next year and if he starts tailing off around next year hopefully Dominguez would have gotten enough experience and we could start incorporating him into the lineup.

 

 

 

I don't see why this Young talk keeps going. He wasn't going to come here because he didn't want to come here. It really is just that simple.

 

As far as Cameron goes, I doubt we see him start many games. Looks like he is here more for the intangibles. Those things that don't show up on his personal stat sheets. Those things alot of posters here don't believe in. No sense in discussing his past accomplishments or how old he is. Actually read what Beinfest and Jack are saying about him.

What does Helms have to do with this?

 

And Cameron's probably going to get his fair share of starts in CF. The fact that a non-contending team just traded for a 38-year old with no future in the sport is basically a waste of time. The season is over; they should start selling, instead of making lateral moves that make no difference, whatsoever. The only thing this does is take away playing time from Petersen who could actually help this organization in the near future as a 4th OF'er, etc. They should be evaluating him more, instead of wasting their time on this has-been.

 

 

I agree completely. Erick is hell freezing over?

 

And I don't agree because I don't think he is going to get "his fair share" of starts in CF. Or any field. No doubt he will get some playing time, but "his fair share of starts" is pushing it. But then I guess it's what someone's defintion of that term is. They seem pretty hot on Peterson, the guy I thought they would call up before they brought in Wise. I think Cameron is going to help in his development more than anything else. LoMo's and Stanton's as well. Fielding-wise at least.

Damn, I always held high hopes for PTBNL turning into a .300 hitter with above average power.

I just read this thread from start to finish. Some of you really need to get out more.

I just read this thread from start to finish. Some of you really need to get out more.

 

 

Says the one who had the time to read a 5 page thread about Mike Cameron.

I just read this thread from start to finish. Some of you really need to get out more.

 

 

Says the one who had the time to read a 5 page thread about Mike Cameron.

 

It's not about time. It's about people concerned with their "status" or "rank" on MarlinsBaseball.com.