shut up about all the politics of this.

they brought out a man with a crippling disease to THROW A FIRST PITCH

 

everyone involved needs a spanking

Zephyr clearly lost a big bet on Ali at some point back during his boxing years. Let go of the hate brother. Let it go.

I mean, fine. But who is synonymous with baseball in Miami?

 

 

Andre Dawson, Ron Fraser or Lenny Harris.

 

I think it would have been a great gesture to the African-American community, had they let Dawson, Harris and CJ do a triple throw out 1st pitch. Especially in the wake of the Trayvon Martin scandal.

Not a single one of those people would have been a good choice, IMO.

Wait, what? Fraser and Harris I can understand, but clearly you are trolling me by saying Andre wouldn't have been a good choice.

 

Ron Fraser has more connection to baseball in South Florida than just about anyone. He is a living legend of college baseball an still is known by the moniker of "The Wizard of College baseball". If not for his University of Miami baseball teams there would have been almost NO baseball above the High School level being played in Miami. There were wide gaps of no professional ball other than spring training by the Orioles. There had not always been a Florida State League team here, and it wasn't until the 1980's that FIU had a credible program (some would say they still don't) and Barry and Lynn Universities only play on the NAIA level.

 

Fraser won more than a thousand games as the HC of the Canes, won two national Championships (1982 & 1985) and his teams made the NCAA tournament every year since 1973 til his retirement in 1992. By the way that's a streak that is still going on today - 39 years - the longest streak by any NCAA team in ANY NCAA sport, not just baseball.

 

Fraser's innovative and commercial promotions brought record crowds (at the time Miami was always one of the highest attendance in college ball every year) out every year, and his teams were always more than competitive and many times played for a national championship in Omaha.

 

He represents many of the good things about baseball in South Fla. Yes there is little to connect him to the Marlins, but he would have been better than Ali. You can't argue that.

 

As for Lenny Harris, he is a native of Miami, and he played on the 2003 Marlins. He and Dawson both are Miami natives and represent the Afro-American community here that DESPERATELY needs encouragement from MLB to foster kids into playing baseball.

 

I thought that MLB had promised to build a Community Youth program here like they have out in Los Angeles. What happened to that idea ? Just like a lot of things it got swept under the carpet, because it didn't make anyone money.....too bad people can't see the future and what might happen if they gave just a little bit back.

I can definitely argue that a guy who maybe 20% of the crowd (at best) has heard of would have been a worse selection than Ali.

 

I think it would have been cool to an Orange Bowl legend out there. If you're going to have a UM affiliated person, I'd rather it have been Howard Schnellenberger than Jim Fraser. Really, nobody would have known who he is.

 

Lenny Harris is a hysterical idea. Absolutely and tremendously hysterical.

I think alot of this has to do with people's inability to respond to someone in that state. It makes people uncomfortable, especially someone that hasn't been around someone with a disease and if your not used to it, a response can be hard to come by.

 

Take away the fact of who he is and his history. Pretend this is a normal guy with Parkinson's. I think it's selfish of us to think that he shouldn't participate in something that normal folks would think a great honor. If I was there I would have stopped clapping for someone with that disease or any disease for that matter. As I said in an earlier post, Lomo supposedly had a conversation with him in the clubhouse. That's the question mark.

 

I think Loria was expecting people to be able to respond with continuous applause.

 

Was it the best choice to ask Ali, probably not but I wouldnt throw the blame at just Loria and the Ali family. I was disappointed with the reaction of the crowd.

I'm wondering about any analogies between this versus when Ted Williams came out on a cart, looking rather decrepit, at the All Star Game, which seemed go be universally received as a great moment.

Ali depresses the world on baseball's Opening Day

 

22 mins ago

 

 

 

Muhammad Ali ruled Miami once, back in '64 when he took down Sonny Liston for his first heavyweight championship, but his appearance to throw the first pitch at the Marlins new ballpark wasn't a celebration; it was just...sad. Fans initially cheered him loudly but the stadium fell into an awkward silence as an excruciatingly slow cart drove him and team owner Jeffrey Loria onto the field. Ali's arms shook violently from the effects of Parkinson's disease and, although the PA announcer coerced the crowd into an "Ali! Ali! Ali!" chant, it wasn't a feel-good moment like seeing the champ light the cauldron at the 1996 Olympics. Nice job, Jeffrey. You found something more depressing than Marlins baseball

 

http://now.msn.com/now-plus/0405-ali-marlins-baseball.aspx

Wow, the amount of disrespect by a specific user in this thread is astonishing. Not sure what gives this person the right to act this way, but absolutely horrendous behavior.

As for another option, Edgar Renteria and Craig Counsell together would have been nice. Didn't Edgar just retire? I know Craig did.

I can definitely argue that a guy who maybe 20% of the crowd (at best) has heard of would have been a worse selection than Ali.

 

I think it would have been cool to an Orange Bowl legend out there. If you're going to have a UM affiliated person, I'd rather it have been Howard Schnellenberger than Jim Fraser. Really, nobody would have known who he is.

 

Lenny Harris is a hysterical idea. Absolutely and tremendously hysterical.

 

 

Jim Fraser ?!?!? At least get the man's name right. Its RON Fraser.

 

Don't assume just because YOU haven't heard of him (it shows by getting his name wrong) there aren't THOUSANDS of Miami residents that know who he is and what he contributed to baseball not only at UM but by holding his baseball camps for 25 years with youth from all over the county, including those who couldn't pay for the camp (who were given tutition money by big UM donors so they could attend). He affected the lives (for the better) of thousands and thousands of boys AND girls who attended his camps every Summer.

 

He absolutely would have been a better choice than Ali, for many, many reasons, that I haven't even stated in my posts.

I can definitely argue that a guy who maybe 20% of the crowd (at best) has heard of would have been a worse selection than Ali.

 

I think it would have been cool to an Orange Bowl legend out there. If you're going to have a UM affiliated person, I'd rather it have been Howard Schnellenberger than Jim Fraser. Really, nobody would have known who he is.

 

Lenny Harris is a hysterical idea. Absolutely and tremendously hysterical.

 

 

Jim Fraser ?!?!? At least get the man's name right. Its RON Fraser.

 

Don't assume just because YOU haven't heard of him (it shows by getting his name wrong) there aren't THOUSANDS of Miami residents that know who he is and what he contributed to baseball not only at UM but by holding his baseball camps for 25 years with youth from all over the county, including those who couldn't pay for the camp (who were given tutition money by big UM donors so they could attend). He affected the lives (for the better) of thousands and thousands of boys AND girls who attended his camps every Summer.

 

He absolutely would have been a better choice than Ali, for many, many reasons, that I haven't even stated in my posts.

Honestly, after living in Miami for my first 19 years of existence, I hadn't heard of him either, but you are correct that just cause myself or doublebob hadn't that he isn't known. However, there's a lot of people that were there that were my age that probably don't know who he is either. Dwayne Johnson would have been huge. Went to UM, became one of the biggest names in WWF/E, a movie star that's well known ... could have been great as well with his Wrestlemania win the other day.

I'm not assuming that he's not well known because I don't know him.

 

I'm saying he is not well known because he is not well known.

As for Lenny Harris, he is a native of Miami, and he played on the 2003 Marlins. He and Dawson both are Miami natives and represent the Afro-American community here that DESPERATELY needs encouragement from MLB to foster kids into playing baseball.

 

Why would you expect the Marlins to integrate your pet political crusade into the first pitch?

 

There is no justifiable reason for the Marlins to cater to the African American community on this.

 

There is no reason to be snide in your comments. This is not a political debate at all. Its about Miami and what would have been best for OUR community on opening night. Those from outside of South Florida should mostly sit back and just read.

 

If you couldn't be there, or be involved stay out of the conversation.

 

Then consider that a lost opportunity. There used to be more than a dozen baseball fields in the areas of Liberty City, South Miami, Overtown and Miami Gardens which are primarily Afro-American in their makeup. Now there are just 3. That is not giving those kids the same opportunities that Lenny Harris, Andre Dawson and Warren Cromartie had growing up here to learn & be exposed to baseball. Baseball in this community will need to have more than the Hispanic community involved to stay relevant. The Anglo-Caucasion community in Miami-Dade County is less than 10% of the population now, and that of the Afro-American is at around 20%. That is a large chunk of the population that doesn't have many places to nuture and grow the next generation of Afro-American players from the Miami area.

 

That is baseball's loss.

maybe Ali just had opening night jitters?

 

No need for attempted gags such as this

I'm wondering about any analogies between this versus when Ted Williams came out on a cart, looking rather decrepit, at the All Star Game, which seemed go be universally received as a great moment.

 

 

Ted Williams at least looked alive. Ali last night looked like he was dug up from the grave. That is what was so, so bad about this.

As for another option, Edgar Renteria and Craig Counsell together would have been nice. Didn't Edgar just retire? I know Craig did.

 

 

That would have been GREAT, and add Conine who was in both 1997 & 2003, and another guy from 2003 and that's what it should have been.

 

But just as I suspected he would, Loria screwed this once in a lifetime thing up.

I would have preferred former marlins or former big name baseball players.

 

 

That is exactly what it should have been.

I can definitely argue that a guy who maybe 20% of the crowd (at best) has heard of would have been a worse selection than Ali.

 

I think it would have been cool to an Orange Bowl legend out there. If you're going to have a UM affiliated person, I'd rather it have been Howard Schnellenberger than Jim Fraser. Really, nobody would have known who he is.

 

Lenny Harris is a hysterical idea. Absolutely and tremendously hysterical.

 

 

Jim Fraser ?!?!? At least get the man's name right. Its RON Fraser.

 

Don't assume just because YOU haven't heard of him (it shows by getting his name wrong) there aren't THOUSANDS of Miami residents that know who he is and what he contributed to baseball not only at UM but by holding his baseball camps for 25 years with youth from all over the county, including those who couldn't pay for the camp (who were given tutition money by big UM donors so they could attend). He affected the lives (for the better) of thousands and thousands of boys AND girls who attended his camps every Summer.

 

He absolutely would have been a better choice than Ali, for many, many reasons, that I haven't even stated in my posts.

Honestly, after living in Miami for my first 19 years of existence, I hadn't heard of him either, but you are correct that just cause myself or doublebob hadn't that he isn't known. However, there's a lot of people that were there that were my age that probably don't know who he is either. Dwayne Johnson would have been huge. Went to UM, became one of the biggest names in WWF/E, a movie star that's well known ... could have been great as well with his Wrestlemania win the other day.

 

Even The Rock would have been better, I agree. At least he played games in the Orange Bowl.

 

But Loria had to go "de basier" this up.

sh*t was mad awkward. They should've had him come out of the first base line wall. Cut down on the 5 year cart ride from center field. It felt really... Anticlimactic.

Anticlimactic.

 

 

This as well.

 

On TV they didn't show all the pre-game festivities but it looked like they were building up really nicely - lots of flash, HR sculpture debuting, national anthem, fly over, introduction of the champ and then ...................................................

 

It would have been a bit hokey, but I would have been happy seeing the rock throw to CJ or something like that - a guy with ties to the marlins past and a guy with ties to miami, who is a big name and knows how to keep a crowd buzzing

 

I really think that loria had visions of '96 in his head with some magical moment and it just didn't come off that way

I love this guy's line of thinking.

 

"This is a once-in-a-lifetime chance. We cannot screw this thing up.

 

...

 

BRING ME SIR LEONARD OF HARRIS!"

As for Lenny Harris, he is a native of Miami, and he played on the 2003 Marlins. He and Dawson both are Miami natives and represent the Afro-American community here that DESPERATELY needs encouragement from MLB to foster kids into playing baseball.

 

Why would you expect the Marlins to integrate your pet political crusade into the first pitch?

 

There is no justifiable reason for the Marlins to cater to the African American community on this.

 

There is no reason to be snide in your comments. This is not a political debate at all. Its about Miami and what would have been best for OUR community on opening night. Those from outside of South Florida should mostly sit back and just read.

 

If you couldn't be there, or be involved stay out of the conversation.

 

Then consider that a lost opportunity. There used to be more than a dozen baseball fields in the areas of Liberty City, South Miami, Overtown and Miami Gardens which are primarily Afro-American in their makeup. Now there are just 3. That is not giving those kids the same opportunities that Lenny Harris, Andre Dawson and Warren Cromartie had growing up here to learn & be exposed to baseball. Baseball in this community will need to have more than the Hispanic community involved to stay relevant. The Anglo-Caucasion community in Miami-Dade County is less than 10% of the population now, and that of the Afro-American is at around 20%. That is a large chunk of the population that doesn't have many places to nuture and grow the next generation of Afro-American players from the Miami area.

 

That is baseball's loss.

Oh, so I'm not allowed to have an opinion on the matter? Who's being snide in his remarks here?

 

You are the one who has taken on this pet cause that nobody else seems to feel strongly about and for whatever reason thinks that it should be heavily integrated into the opening ceremonies of the new ballpark. You don't seem to consider that it has nothing to do with the Marlins, the ballpark, or the Hispanic demographic that the Marlins are openly and heavily catering to.

 

You are completely alone in your belief that having someone like Lenny Harris throw out the first pitch would have been best for the Marlins and the Miami baseball community. This isn't saying that the Marlins' charities shouldn't reach out to blacks, but it's completely ridiculous and unjustifiable for you to regard this as something that needs to be featured so prominently in the opening of the new ballpark.

 

You, as usual, don't read EVERYTHING and of course wish to always put your spin on what others are posting.

 

You are notorious for it.

 

That said, I have said in other posts that it should have been FORMER MARLINS, and a nice gesture would have been to include those representing the Afro-American community, since they are a large part of the community.

 

So what does Ali have to do with the "Hispanic Community" you claim they are trying to reach ? They had an Afro-American there, to do it, and one that has very dubious connections at best to the Miami area. If you actually read stories about MLB and that includes the Marlins the last time I checked, there is an emphasis on trying to reach out to the Afro-American community. The Youth Center in Los Angeles, and the Urban Baseball Classic (that is between historically Afro-American colleges and shown on MLB Network) are just two examples of MLB reaching out to the Afro-American community.

 

And I would like to add your snide remarks about me trying to promote an "agenda" were completely out of line, and the 1st volley between us. If you didn't have an agenda yourself, this thread would never have had this discussion. My post would have been more or less passed over without anyone else commenting on it. But it was YOU, with your own reasons who have caused this.

 

I think you owe the moderators and admins on this board an apology for causing this rancor between us.

I'm calling my local congressman about this hoopla

 

it was a terrible decision. I dunno what there is to argue about

The Man.

 

The Myth.

 

The Potbelly.

That said, I have said in other posts that it should have been FORMER MARLINS, and a nice gesture would have been to include those representing the Afro-American community, since they are a large part of the community.

So you are basically giving preference to Lenny Harris over Conine, Hough/Santiago, Sheffield, etc.?

 

Nobody takes issue with using former Marlins, but it's silly to think that it should be a black Marlin. There is no justification for it. It only makes sense in your head, because you think this "cause" is important.

 

So what does Ali have to do with the "Hispanic Community" you claim they are trying to reach ?

Nothing. My point was that if they were going to be going out of their way to appease a certain race, it would be the Hispanics. The Marlins made a decision (apparently) that race wasn't a factor. They were going for the name and some kind of Miami connection.

 

If you actually read stories about MLB and that includes the Marlins the last time I checked, there is an emphasis on trying to reach out to the Afro-American community. The Youth Center in Los Angeles, and the Urban Baseball Classic (that is between historically Afro-American colleges and shown on MLB Network) are just two examples of MLB reaching out to the Afro-American community.

That's great and all, but it has nothing to do with the Marlins, ballpark, or Little Havana. Therefore it's not appropriate for the first pitch.

 

And I would like to add your snide remarks about me trying to promote an "agenda" were completely out of line, and the 1st volley between us. If you didn't have an agenda yourself, this thread would never have had this discussion. My post would have been more or less passed over without anyone else commenting on it. But it was YOU, with your own reasons who have caused this.

 

I think you owe the moderators and admins on this board an apology for causing this rancor between us.

It would not have been passed over. You said in a serious manner that Lenny Harris would have been a great choice for the first pitch. And then you keeping droning on and on about why it's absolutely necessary for the Marlins to go out of their way to cater to blacks in the oppening ceremony. It makes no sense. That's why I'm calling you and that's why others are calling you out. When you show a serious lack of good judgment, people are going to mention it.

 

First of all IF YOU REREAD MY POSTS, I never INSISTED, just gave it as a suggestion in lieu of Ali, much as others have. I would be fine if it was Conine and no one else. He is after all known as "Mr Marlin".

 

But it also would have been a better idea, THAN ALI, to have former Marlins players THAT ACTUALLY GREW UP IN MIAMI throw out the first pitch, and that if they had those 3 who are Afro-American, it would again be a good gesture to the Afro-American community, especially in light of the Trayvon Martin incident. I never once had said that is the only players they should have.

 

And if they did that, NO ONE should have a problem with that. Its better than Ali. Conine is better than Ali, and almost anyone would have been a better idea, but trying to reach out to the Afro-American community would have been a good thing, for the reasons I have already stated in this thread.

 

I have nothing more to respond to you.