I can't believe I'm saying this, but I can't wait for the Leo-Coaster to come back renamed and remodeled to the JC-ChooChoo.

 

 

 

Discuss.

He's awful, God awful. Leo's not good but i'd take not good at this point.

Leo Nunez vs bell who will blow more game enjoy ride going to be fun for other team

I'd take Nunez over Bell at this point. Nunez had some low points in his career, but nothing as awful and long lasting as Bell.

This team WILL NOT make playoffs with Bell as closer

This team WILL NOT make playoffs with Bell as closer

This team WILL NOT make playoffs with Bell as closer

 

 

I didn't want to get torched for going that far, but that pretty much sums it up

I get shivers thinking about the Marlins playing a playoff series with Bell working the ninth inning.

Question I ask myself is...if a team was willing to take on Bell's salary for nothing in return via trade (not saying a team would at this point) would the Marlins make the deal or would they stay loyal to the contract? This front office really falls in love with their contracts, especially with closers. We've had some mediocre closers over the years stay in the role simply because they're getting paid.

Question I ask myself is...if a team was willing to take on Bell's salary for nothing in return via trade (not saying a team would at this point) would the Marlins make the deal or would they stay loyal to the contract? This front office really falls in love with their contracts, especially with closers. We've had some mediocre closers over the years stay in the role simply because they're getting paid.

 

 

This is an interesting question, and it gets to the heart of human nature -- primarily with regard to the ability (or inability) to admit when one is wrong.

 

I've been a professional speculator for over 30 years (mostly futures.) Made (and lost) more than a million dollars in the space of 4 hours many, many times.

 

The primary, overarching lesson of decades of trading has been very simple. When your plan isn't working, get the hell out. Cut your loss immediately and come back later with most of your capital intact and try again. Letting profits run is also not easy (there are always reasons to second-guess the logic and reasons behind any trade,) but making the mistake of selling something profitable too soon can't bankrupt you.

 

Hanging on to losers and rationalizing and justifying and making excuses for bad decisions can bankrupt you.

 

I never thought that any "rule" of speculation would have much application to baseball, but "cut your losses" sure does.

 

People don't like to admit that they were wrong. They dig in their heels the more obvious the error becomes. Guillen strikes me as a very stubborn guy. Loria the same. I defended Bell's record in June (it was pretty good) in another thread, but also noted that if he started blowing saves again he would be laughed out of the ranks of serious closers and revert to being criticized as a "fat guy." I prefer to think of him as ineffective or over-the-hill.

 

Well, after two recent episodes of epic failure (that blown four-run 9th inning lead was the largest in team history) and his early string of disasters, it may be time for Loria and Guillen to admit that Bell was a 27 million dollar mistake, write it off, and try something else.

 

Before they totally blow their capital, which is wholly made up of fan support and ticket-buying.

... I concur. It's time for Loria & Beinfest to admit they made a mistake and correct it, before they lose all the goodwill they have made by the spending spree and new stadium.

 

The blame for this signing will probably fall on Beinfest, but for once I think this may not have been his call. I don't have any proof, just a gut feeling all 3 big signings this off-season were ordered from above, and Beinfest was told to negotiate and get it done.

 

Loria, who thinks of himself as the reincarnation of George Steinbrenner, has no Brian Cashman. This is very unfortunate for Marlins fans.

 

Now does this disaster of a season cause Loria to pullback and not free spend anymore ? Does this cause a firesale by the trade deadline (Same old Marlins LOL) How does the fanbase react to this season, and stop buying tickets, and are we are back to the Same old Marlins that way ?

 

Loria has a lot of work again this off-season and most of it is to correct many of the things he thought he had gotten so right this off-season. Let's see if he steps up or shies away. This off-season is more of a challenge than last year.

Firesale? Get real. We're talking about one guy.

You still can't blame Loria and Beinfest for signign Bell. The guy was a beast of a closer. It's a shame he has been worthless to the Marlins.

 

As Zephyr said, it might be time to cut our losses.

You still can't blame Loria and Beinfest for signign Bell. The guy was a beast of a closer. It's a shame he has been worthless to the Marlins.

 

As Zephyr said, it might be time to cut our losses.

 

 

I remember quite a few people, myself included, who hated the Bell signing in the offseason = ) I didn't think it would be THIS bad though. This is worse than the Jorge Julio experiment. While whoever we might have used instead of Bell would have likely blown a game or two by now (it's unfair to assume all the saves would have been converted at this point like some people like to do when projecting our record w/o Bell) it's safe to say we'd probably be a .500 team at least despite our offensive futility in June.

 

this kind of quote irritates me though "Just a little mistake from me lets the whole team down," said Bell...a LITTLE mistake? You make it seem like you've been utterly wonderful this whole season and just made a little boo boo for once...AWFUL..

 

The fact that Ozzie ripped the rest of the team and seemed to let Bell escape criticism again is just baffling at best. At this point there is no way that you could convince me to believe that Loria and co. are micromanaging their "investment" because I'm sure Bell is alienated in the clubhouse with the frequent coddling and privilege he's being shown blown save after blown save. Someone is going to say something (perhaps Lomo on twitter even - and then watch him be traded while Bell continues to "close") that will just drive a dagger into the heart of that team and divide that clubhouse and make it extremely toxic.

... I concur. It's time for Loria & Beinfest to admit they made a mistake and correct it, before they lose all the goodwill they have made by the spending spree and new stadium.

 

The blame for this signing will probably fall on Beinfest, but for once I think this may not have been his call. I don't have any proof, just a gut feeling all 3 big signings this off-season were ordered from above, and Beinfest was told to negotiate and get it done.

 

Loria, who thinks of himself as the reincarnation of George Steinbrenner, has no Brian Cashman. This is very unfortunate for Marlins fans.

 

Now does this disaster of a season cause Loria to pullback and not free spend anymore ? Does this cause a firesale by the trade deadline (Same old Marlins LOL) How does the fanbase react to this season, and stop buying tickets, and are we are back to the Same old Marlins that way ?

 

Loria has a lot of work again this off-season and most of it is to correct many of the things he thought he had gotten so right this off-season. Let's see if he steps up or shies away. This off-season is more of a challenge than last year.

 

Excellent, excellent, excellent post. I see it the exact same way. You articulated it so well.

Firesale? Get real. We're talking about one guy.

 

 

You think the whole problem with this team is one guy ?

 

C'mon brother, you're smarter than that.

 

This team has multiple areas of trouble.

 

As for a firesale, I'm actually for it, and understand why it should be done. But can it be done realistically without totally p*ssing off your fanbase and making them say (LOL) "Same Old Marlins" and all that implies. Most of the fans are "casual" fans and don't understand team dynamics.

 

Loria could sit back and say, "okay I give them one more year (2013)" but can he afford to do that ? How long will the public sit back and still buy tickets. Just having a nice stadium is not enough, especially in Miami when you have the Heat winning championships, and the Dolphins a nice winning streak away from getting their fanbase back on track. There is only so much money out their to be divided (since overall Miami is actually one of the poorest areas in the USA - Miami ranks 6th on the list of cities with the lowest median income over 250,000 population, with 26.5% living below the poverty line). This is a make it or break it year for the Marlins. Loria has had just about everything go wrong so far - except that he is still selling tickets - does a firesale kill that ? Do you have a firesale and keep Stanton ? How do you convince Stanton to sign a longterm if you firesale and tell him the same dude (Beinfest) that put together this crappy team, needs to get yet one more chance (this is like his 3rd core of players since he has been here) and that they will build around him. Or will he look at the Dodgers and see their new ownership, flush with money and the hometown allure and say.....if I just wait it out in Miami.......

You still can't blame Loria and Beinfest for signign Bell. The guy was a beast of a closer. It's a shame he has been worthless to the Marlins.

 

As Zephyr said, it might be time to cut our losses.

 

 

Who know what is also behind Bell's collapse.....his family stayed back in SD, he's a WC guy, maybe he misses his family more than we know, and it's affecting his pitching ?

You still can't blame Loria and Beinfest for signign Bell. The guy was a beast of a closer. It's a shame he has been worthless to the Marlins.

 

As Zephyr said, it might be time to cut our losses.

 

 

I remember quite a few people, myself included, who hated the Bell signing in the offseason = ) I didn't think it would be THIS bad though. This is worse than the Jorge Julio experiment. While whoever we might have used instead of Bell would have likely blown a game or two by now (it's unfair to assume all the saves would have been converted at this point like some people like to do when projecting our record w/o Bell) it's safe to say we'd probably be a .500 team at least despite our offensive futility in June.

 

this kind of quote irritates me though "Just a little mistake from me lets the whole team down," said Bell...a LITTLE mistake? You make it seem like you've been utterly wonderful this whole season and just made a little boo boo for once...AWFUL..

 

The fact that Ozzie ripped the rest of the team and seemed to let Bell escape criticism again is just baffling at best. At this point there is no way that you could convince me to believe that Loria and co. are micromanaging their "investment" because I'm sure Bell is alienated in the clubhouse with the frequent coddling and privilege he's being shown blown save after blown save. Someone is going to say something (perhaps Lomo on twitter even - and then watch him be traded while Bell continues to "close") that will just drive a dagger into the heart of that team and divide that clubhouse and make it extremely toxic.

 

Could happen......very possible scenario

Unfortunately I do believe that unless Loria throws an insane amount of cash at Giancarlo he's as good as gone to L.A. when the time comes.

 

Loria does fancy himself as Steinbrenner reincarnated but unfortunately he doesn't have the financial flexibility to absorb a 27 million mistake. I'd say this team is cursed because it seems like things can never break our way (this season has gone wrong in just about every way imaginable) but then again we do have two titles so we can't be too cursed I suppose.

Unfortunately I do believe that unless Loria throws an insane amount of cash at Giancarlo he's as good as gone to L.A. when the time comes.

 

Loria does fancy himself as Steinbrenner reincarnated but unfortunately he doesn't have the financial flexibility to absorb a 27 million mistake. I'd say this team is cursed because it seems like things can never break our way (this season has gone wrong in just about every way imaginable) but then again we do have two titles so we can't be too cursed I suppose.

 

 

I know to some around here it's a sacrilege to say or think it, but I think the smartest way to look at Stanton is, if no longterm deal is done by the beginning of next season, you can forget about him staying here, and you need to start looking at him as the next Cabrera trading chip. Because if you wait it out too long, you will not get the return you MUST get if you trade him.

 

The whole reason this team has been in the crapper since the Cabrera trade is because we didn't get value for him. If Beinfest hits on that trade we win the division in 2009 and possibly even 2010, and can you imagine the core of players we'd have surrounding Stanton ? It would make signing him to a longterm easier and for Loria even better - because he might be cheaper to stay here where he feels good about winning. At this point, I think he may be looking to get out ASAP.

No, you need to look at moving other pieces before you ever contemplate moving Stanton.

Lots of fake fans on this forum. Some of u sound like they're happy bout this.

 

And LOL at trading Stanton.

We arent making the playoffs this year.

 

When we look back and see we missed a Wild Card spot by 2-6 games, we can look at the late game meltdowns.

 

Bullpen sucks. Ozzie's in game managing sucks. Our defense sucks.

 

Its 3 things that doom a mediocre team.

Unfortunately I do believe that unless Loria throws an insane amount of cash at Giancarlo he's as good as gone to L.A. when the time comes.

 

Loria does fancy himself as Steinbrenner reincarnated but unfortunately he doesn't have the financial flexibility to absorb a 27 million mistake. I'd say this team is cursed because it seems like things can never break our way (this season has gone wrong in just about every way imaginable) but then again we do have two titles so we can't be too cursed I suppose.

 

 

I know to some around here it's a sacrilege to say or think it, but I think the smartest way to look at Stanton is, if no longterm deal is done by the beginning of next season, you can forget about him staying here, and you need to start looking at him as the next Cabrera trading chip. Because if you wait it out too long, you will not get the return you MUST get if you trade him.

 

The whole reason this team has been in the crapper since the Cabrera trade is because we didn't get value for him. If Beinfest hits on that trade we win the division in 2009 and possibly even 2010, and can you imagine the core of players we'd have surrounding Stanton ? It would make signing him to a longterm easier and for Loria even better - because he might be cheaper to stay here where he feels good about winning. At this point, I think he may be looking to get out ASAP.

 

This is what I am waiting for... I keep wishing for a team where Stanton is surrounded by top-notch hitters, where the offense is so potent that Hanley would bat 6th and LoMo 7th and anything they provide offensively is gravy... I am a big Stanton fan but sometimes you can see where he tries to do too much because the 22 year-old is expected to carry the team and it isn't fair to him (yet) ... Assuming Yelich is the real deal and is ready in another year or two, I would love to eventually see this kind of line-up at some point just to see how it goes...

 

1. Reyes SS

2. Boner 2B or OF depending on Free Agent

3. BEAST - RF

4. BIG FREE AGENT POWER HITTER - ?? (protect Stanton)

5. Yelich - OF (Assuming he can be an impact player when he is called up)

6. Hanley - 3B

7. LoMo - 1B

8. Realmuto - C (If he is ready or free agent catcher)

 

sorry for the off-topic post - I'm bored and daydreaming of a brighter Marlins tomorrow

No, you need to look at moving other pieces before you ever contemplate moving Stanton.

 

 

We said that about Cabrera at one time too.....its beginning to look like the same thing all over again. But some people will bury their heads til the very last clue is shown.