May 31, 201313 yr We had no interest in trading Willis in 05. If the trade would have improved the team (and it clearly would have at the time), then the Marlins absolutely had an interest in trading Willis after the 2005 season.
May 31, 201313 yr BTW, that thread was posted two months into the season after Dontrelle stunk, skewing public opinion, and I'm assuming that offer was made in the offseason before Dontrelle's implosion to start the season. If you told Marlins fans the trade offer was made in the offseason when the offer was reporting given to the Marlins, I guarantee you opinion would've been far more split. Hell, there were people still questioning whether it would've been the right move even after Dontrelle's terrible start. I'm not quite sure that two months of underperformance would skew public opinion that much when he was coming off of a Cy Young caliber season. If you notice, people were definitely recognizing the value of both Verlander and Granderson at the time too. I also wouldn't say that Willis imploded to start the season. He was great that April. He just had a string of 3 bad starts in May to inflate his ERA. I'd say you are splitting hairs.
May 31, 201313 yr We had no interest in trading Willis in 05. If the trade would have improved the team (and it clearly would have at the time), then the Marlins absolutely had an interest in trading Willis after the 2005 season. That's the thing. I don't think the Marlins front office thought it would've CLEARLY helped us. I don't think the public opinion at the time was that Granderson/Verlander>Willis. It was that cut and dry. Nobody was saying that without a doubt two players with barely any time spent in the majors were CLEARLY better than a two time all star and reigning Cy Young runner up.
May 31, 201313 yr Author We had no interest in trading Willis in 05. If the trade would have improved the team (and it clearly would have at the time), then the Marlins absolutely had an interest in trading Willis after the 2005 season. You have issues kid. You really think your the best don't you? Don't you understand what dim is trying to say? Or is he using words that are to big for you to understand? NOBODY would have traded willis at that time for anything that anybody offered. He was as loved as a pitcher can be and had a great great season. Everyone expected him to become what Verlander has become so what is the point of trading him when you also have emotional attachment to him??????? Don't you ever pay attention to what people write or are you just to busy thinking about how great you are? At the time granderson was a NOBODY and he still isn't that good. DEFINITELY not worth the money he is being payed. Verlander is good but he is also not worth the money he makes. In fact even though reggie abercrombie never figured it out for some reason he was considered just as good as granderson at the time as a prospect. You just say things to get people annoyed don't you?
May 31, 201313 yr We had no interest in trading Willis in 05. If the trade would have improved the team (and it clearly would have at the time), then the Marlins absolutely had an interest in trading Willis after the 2005 season. That's the thing. I don't think the Marlins front office thought it would've CLEARLY helped us. I don't think the public opinion at the time was that Granderson/Verlander>Willis. It was that cut and dry. Nobody was saying that without a doubt two players with barely any time spent in the majors were CLEARLY better than a two time all star and reigning Cy Young runner up. I can't say what the Marlins would have been thinking. We don't know if the trade was even offered. However, I've given plenty of reasons already for why it was a no-brainer. To repeat, Verlander/Granderson might not have had much major league success but they were highly developed prospects who were MLB ready and universally regarded. The risk wasn't too significant. Yes, Willis was coming off of a Cy Young caliber season, but his future success was uncertain on account of his dependency on deceptive delivery rather than impeccable command/stuff. He wasn't the model of stability and consistency. People knew this at the time, that's why most people in the tread I posted were in favor of pulling the trigger.
May 31, 201313 yr uhhhh Disclaimer: the opinions of SomethingFishy does NOT reflect the opinions held by dim. We apologize and hope to continue posting original content on this message board.
May 31, 201313 yr Author We had no interest in trading Willis in 05. If the trade would have improved the team (and it clearly would have at the time), then the Marlins absolutely had an interest in trading Willis after the 2005 season. That's the thing. I don't think the Marlins front office thought it would've CLEARLY helped us. I don't think the public opinion at the time was that Granderson/Verlander>Willis. It was that cut and dry. Nobody was saying that without a doubt two players with barely any time spent in the majors were CLEARLY better than a two time all star and reigning Cy Young runner up. I can't say what the Marlins would have been thinking. We don't know if the trade was even offered. However, I've given plenty of reasons already for why it was a no-brainer. To repeat, Verlander/Granderson might not have had much major league success but they were highly developed prospects who were MLB ready and universally regarded. The risk wasn't too significant. Yes, Willis was coming off of a Cy Young caliber season, but his future success was uncertain on account of his dependency on deceptive delivery rather than impeccable command/stuff. He wasn't the model of stability and consistency. People knew this at the time, that's why most people in the tread I posted were in favor of pulling the trigger. You just don't get it do you? YOu have to make trades in the PRESENT ok? You can't trade a player and then be like oh nevermind give back that player cause these prospects aren't to good like we thought. It doesn't work that way. Could you imagine how it would be if that is how it was in real life in trades? It is a risk every trade is and unless you have money to spend like crazy it is hard so hard to build a great team and it takes time. Give this team some time this is the FIRST YEAR of the reset and rebuilding!!!! it will take time. Let me ask you something.. Do you like ANY of the trades that beinfest has made??? or are you like one of those right wings that is against everything that obama does or says just because it is his idea? because you seem to have alot of blind hate for beinfest. actually you seem to hate EVRYBODY really.
May 31, 201313 yr What Beinfest trades have you liked? BTW, the reason the Cabrera trade was scorned when it happened was not so much because of Maybin/Miller, but more because every other piece in the trade was absolute garbage. They basically traded Cabrera and Willis for Maybin and Miller straight up which is absurd.
May 31, 201313 yr I get what el penguino is saying and I understand Dim's position too. I read it as a very civil conversation, I don't know why this SomethingFishy has to talk about el penguino having "issues" and such, that's uncalled for. I've certainly read other conversations on these forums over the years that were sh*tty and this one didn't even come close. Even though el penguino isn't doing the trade in hindsight, the people that do try and do that baffle me. You're introducing a completely different set of factors into a timeline that could lead to a whole different series of results. For example, Verlander could be throwing a no-hitter for the Tigers in Kansas, but get injured throwing for the Marlins in Colorado on that same night. It could also go the other way where someone like Verlander could end up being more dominant over time, but there's just no way to know. I find it more interesting to do what el penguino has done and put yourself in that moment in time and wonder what you would've done. Me? I would've taken the blue pill. :ninja
May 31, 201313 yr Wouldnt it be great if we lived in the alternate reality where the Marlins have a real owner and a competent front office, the Marlins have a large fanbase, LeBron James is the centerpiece of the expansion Louisville Colonels, and soccer doesnt exist?
May 31, 201313 yr Wouldnt it be great if we lived in the alternate reality where the Marlins have a real owner and a competent front office, the Marlins have a large fanbase, LeBron James is the centerpiece of the expansion Louisville Colonels, and soccer doesnt exist? Yes, Yes, No clue and fuck no. MLS soccer? Yes.
May 31, 201313 yr Stanton tests hamstring "He just started lightly jogging, and he's now complaining about his knees being sore," Redmond said. You can even tell that Redmond is getting tired of Stanton's BS.
May 31, 201313 yr Trades are ALWAYS judged after the fact. That is the nature of trades and judgments. And, in such judgments, Beinfest and the Marlins always comes out the loser. Apologists for the Marlins FO always claim that no one could have foreseen events. But, of course, the other side of the trade did.
May 31, 201313 yr I've always been somewhat of a Dontrelle Willis skeptic mostly on account of the reasons stated above. His success was attributed to an unconventional delivery, which would be nearly impossible to fix when it no longer worked for him. No pitching coach on the world would be able to salvage that. The drop off in performance just isn't that surprising given his inability to have good command. The anxiety issues just exacerbated his problems. It's perfectly reasonable for people at the time to want to sell high on Wills when a regression was likely to come in the future. Verlander and Granderson were stud talents at the time too. Also keep in mind that the Marlins were unlikely to sign Willis to an extension (as was the case with Cabrera), so that's even more incentive to move him before he hit arbitration.
May 31, 201313 yr We had no interest in trading Willis in 05. If the trade would have improved the team (and it clearly would have at the time), then the Marlins absolutely had an interest in trading Willis after the 2005 season. You have issues kid. You really think your the best don't you? Don't you understand what dim is trying to say? Or is he using words that are to big for you to understand? NOBODY would have traded willis at that time for anything that anybody offered. He was as loved as a pitcher can be and had a great great season. Everyone expected him to become what Verlander has become so what is the point of trading him when you also have emotional attachment to him??????? Don't you ever pay attention to what people write or are you just to busy thinking about how great you are? At the time granderson was a NOBODY and he still isn't that good. DEFINITELY not worth the money he is being payed. Verlander is good but he is also not worth the money he makes. In fact even though reggie abercrombie never figured it out for some reason he was considered just as good as granderson at the time as a prospect. You just say things to get people annoyed don't you? Perhaps you can explain what you like about a baseball team that is on pace to be the worst team in the last 100 years.
May 31, 201313 yr Well when you think every player is destined for the hall of fame like this guy does you are bound to be optimistic.
June 1, 201313 yr Wouldnt it be great if we lived in the alternate reality where the Marlins have a real owner and a competent front office, the Marlins have a large fanbase, LeBron James is the centerpiece of the expansion Louisville Colonels, and soccer doesnt exist? And we kept our old unis, never got Gaby Sanchez, and you were dating Miley Cyrus?? Yeah, that'd be great
June 1, 201313 yr It's true that the record is bad right now but the 1962 Mets had no star power on it and the 2013 Marlins have to many monsters coming up to lose 120 games. This team ha the ability to turn it around soon unlike the 62 mets who struggled for the whole season. For what it's worth, they had Ron Hunt, Roger Craig, Al Jackson, Gil Hodges, Ed Kranepool, Felix Mantilla, Richie Ashburn, and Jim Hickman.
June 1, 201313 yr It's true that the record is bad right now but the 1962 Mets had no star power on it and the 2013 Marlins have to many monsters coming up to lose 120 games. This team ha the ability to turn it around soon unlike the 62 mets who struggled for the whole season. For what it's worth, they had Ron Hunt, Roger Craig, Al Jackson, Gil Hodges, Ed Kranepool, Felix Mantilla, Richie Ashburn, and Jim Hickman. And Marv Throneberry, Vinegar Bend Mizell, and Choo-Choo Coleman(he actually had potential imo).
June 1, 201313 yr Stanton tests hamstring "He just started lightly jogging, and he's now complaining about his knees being sore," Redmond said. You can even tell that Redmond is getting tired of Stanton's BS. Yeah he doesn't seem too happy. Why say he's complaining about his knees? He could have just said his knees were bothering him.
June 1, 201313 yr He will be gone this offseason for an underwhelming package. Stanton has kind of killed the leverage the Marlins have by his own doing.
June 1, 201313 yr Not really. The competition for him should still be extremely high. If they don't get a really good package for Stanton then they won't get a good package for anyone.
June 1, 201313 yr If they don't get a really good package for Stanton then they won't get a good package for anyone. you're saying this like the thought of the Marlins not getting a stellar return in a trade is absurd...
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