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8/18 Post Game


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Cishek is not going to be cheap next year

 

 

Big fan of the guy, but I would trade him to help the lineup. We have other future bullpen options and he has value.

 

Would you do that, Polly?

 

 

I like him a lot, but I dunno what to do. If they get an offer of a real player for him, then sure. But I also can't see them shelling out $4-5m for him next year

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Cishek is not going to be cheap next year

 

 

Big fan of the guy, but I would trade him to help the lineup. We have other future bullpen options and he has value.

 

Would you do that, Polly?

 

 

I like him a lot, but I dunno what to do. If they get an offer of a real player for him, then sure. But I also can't see them shelling out $4-5m for him next year

 

 

 

 

Pay him and hope he continues to look good next season. If we suck, trade him at the deadline for a nice piece.

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Unless there is a surefire closer waiting to move into the spot, I see no reason to consider moving Cishek. Alas, It will probably happen anyways.

 

 

I don't think it will this offseason. They would've traded him at the trade deadline if they wanted to trade him.

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I don't think some are suggesting we trade him for the hell of it this off-season. If there's a strong offer on the table involving Cishek that addresses our major lineup weaknesses, we make that trade. It could be very unlikely that scenario happens, but if it did... I wouldn't complain.

 

Besides... haven't several of you said posted before that closers are overvalued in Baseball?

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I don't think some are suggesting we trade him for the hell of it this off-season. If there's a strong offer on the table involving Cishek that addresses our major lineup weaknesses, we make that trade. It could be very unlikely that scenario happens, but if it did... I wouldn't complain.

 

Besides... haven't several of you said posted before that closers are overvalued in Baseball?

 

 

It's just that the odds of getting a greater return are better at the trade deadline. I agree that it's all about the return. He's not getting traded this offseason. The Marlins were asking for top prospects at the trade deadline and there weren't any takers apparently.

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So if you want to f***ing win games, you keep what is winning you games.

 

 

There's more than one way to skin a cat. Whose to say that Cishek can't be replaced by someone else? Whose to say that a potential trade can't bring back pieces to win us more games? Cishek isn't going to save us many games with this historically bad lineup leaving us behind in games. I feel like some people don't realize just how bad it is and it is not winning us games.

 

Its all about the return. Some of us are saying that we're open minded to trading Cishek if such a deal has worth whether it be this off-season or the trade deadline in 2014.

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The Closing Pitcher title is funny. I feel like teams value the title more than the actual pitcher. That is, Steve Cishek the closer would garner a better return than Steve Cishek the 8th inning set-up guy, all other things being equal. It's ridiculous.

 

Personally, I would take the chance and trade him at the trade deadline if we get offered a top prospect. I know relievers are extremely volatile, but you've got a good thing going with him right now so there's no sense in trading him unless you get exactly what you want. He's under club-control for a while, so one bad season next year wouldn't exactly destroy his value to us. At a point, people (on these forums particularly) are going to have to start thinking about retaining pieces that we know are good now in lieu of attempting to acquire potentially-better pieces. I think the FO has already begun to think like this, so that's a good thing.

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The Closing Pitcher title is funny. I feel like teams value the title more than the actual pitcher. That is, Steve Cishek the closer would garner a better return than Steve Cishek the 8th inning set-up guy, all other things being equal. It's ridiculous.

 

I agree especially considering how closers are used. Sometimes there are more important game defining moments in the 7th or 8th inning that can win or lose a game. There could be a moment where the 3-4-5 hitters are up with the bases loaded, but, nope, lets save that closer for that 9th inning! It's all situational, but I wish teams were more open minded and flexible in how they use what is likely their best reliever.

 

I know I've seen people on this forum complain about that in the past.

 

At a point, people (on these forums particularly) are going to have to start thinking about retaining pieces that we know are good now in lieu of attempting to acquire potentially-better pieces. I think the FO has already begun to think like this, so that's a good thing.

 

But what at cost? Is the value of Cishek to this team more important then upgrading areas of the lineup?

 

Other teams could be in a better position to trade hitters for a closer like Cishek. They would also likely be in a better financial position to pay for that closer. The Marlins don't have that financial muscle and we have a really bad hitting lineup, but we do have considerable pitching depth/potential. We know about the starting pitchers, but there's also some potential in some of the relievers.

 

Like I said, I'm a Cishek fan, but I find relievers to be replaceable and IF there's a deal that improves our lineup... I think we could accept a "lesser" 9th inning guy. Maybe that's just me though.

 

I do agree there are pieces the Marlins need to hold onto though as we look to move forward.

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The Marlins seem to like this core of players, including Cishek.

 

I get the feeling that they're building with these players. They probably don't care to get a hitter for Cishek because they feel like they're set. We probably know better, but lets be real. This organization loves the OF'ers in the system, they like Lomo, they like Dietrich/Solano, they just drafted Moran, and they think Adeiny Hechavarria is an All-Star SS in the making. Agree with it or not, I get the sense that the front office really likes this offense with the exception of catcher at the moment (and I'm sure they overrate Mathis as well).

 

If they get more hitters/players, it'll probably be because they traded Stanton, not Cishek.

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I was alluding to the possibility of Cishek being "part" of a trade as you never know when the Marlins will do another one of these big deals. There are other parts that I could see being moved.

 

You're probably right though, Erick, they probably like this offense enough and will go with it. I'm a Marlins fan so I hope it all works out for the best.

 

Squall posted it brilliantly the other day though:

 

As usual the future success of this team rides on 7+ prospects all developing to expected levels.

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The Closing Pitcher title is funny. I feel like teams value the title more than the actual pitcher. That is, Steve Cishek the closer would garner a better return than Steve Cishek the 8th inning set-up guy, all other things being equal. It's ridiculous.

 

I agree especially considering how closers are used. Sometimes there are more important game defining moments in the 7th or 8th inning that can win or lose a game. There could be a moment where the 3-4-5 hitters are up with the bases loaded, but, nope, lets save that closer for that 9th inning! It's all situational, but I wish teams were more open minded and flexible in how they use what is likely their best reliever.

 

I know I've seen people on this forum complain about that in the past.

 

 

At a point, people (on these forums particularly) are going to have to start thinking about retaining pieces that we know are good now in lieu of attempting to acquire potentially-better pieces. I think the FO has already begun to think like this, so that's a good thing.

But what at cost? Is the value of Cishek to this team more important then upgrading areas of the lineup?

 

Other teams could be in a better position to trade hitters for a closer like Cishek. They would also likely be in a better financial position to pay for that closer. The Marlins don't have that financial muscle and we have a really bad hitting lineup, but we do have considerable pitching depth/potential. We know about the starting pitchers, but there's also some potential in some of the relievers.

 

Like I said, I'm a Cishek fan, but I find relievers to be replaceable and IF there's a deal that improves our lineup... I think we could accept a "lesser" 9th inning guy. Maybe that's just me though.

 

I do agree there are pieces the Marlins need to hold onto though as we look to move forward.

 

 

 

 

Well, this team should have the (realistic) financial flexibility and starting pitching to improve the lineup via free agency or trade. I would much rather let some other team take a risk on a prospect of ours panning out than us trading away a piece of our core. If we didn't have all the SP depth we do, or if we didn't have 4 OF, then I would be fine trading Cishek. However, we have enough guys in our farm that could be traded to upgrade our lineup. I'm not saying we'll get a top prospect, but we could get serviceable, relatively young players that could join our core. Think Denard Span.

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Well, this team should have the (realistic) financial flexibility and starting pitching to improve the lineup via free agency or trade. I would much rather let some other team take a risk on a prospect of ours panning out than us trading away a piece of our core. If we didn't have all the SP depth we do, or if we didn't have 4 OF, then I would be fine trading Cishek. However, we have enough guys in our farm that could be traded to upgrade our lineup. I'm not saying we'll get a top prospect, but we could get serviceable, relatively young players that could join our core. Think Denard Span.

 

 

I get your point and, obviously, I've considered the possibilities of trading some of the SP pitching depth/4th OF/LoMo to help the lineup. I, personally, feel this lineup has so many holes that trading Cishek should also be considered, I have also alluded to the fact that Cishek could be "part" of a trade. My thinking was that there could be a possible package deal to fulfill our needs.

 

This is irrelevant though because, as Erick said, the Marlins are likely happy with their lineup and hoping they all step up in the next few years.

 

I can't really add anymore so might as well drop it.

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I suspect that at this stage they are doubting Brantly's future and think that they need to acquire another starting catcher. Even if they like Mathis, I doubt they see him as a starter.

 

I bet they are rethinking the "perennial all-star" Hechavarria label too. They are riding him out for this season because they don't have anybody to replace him with. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to acquire a SS if they deal Stanton.

 

I also doubt that they see Solano and Dietrich as 2B guys of the future.

 

In other words, as far as offense goes, they are probably only really confident in their outfielders and see Moran as the rightful inheritor at 3rd. Middle infield and catcher are particularly weak as far as depth goes and they know it.

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