You guys missed my point. NNY said we traded Hanley and got shit in return, which isn't true, Eovaldi has a lot of value. That was my only point. I never said Trumbo was better than Hanley, I don't know how "Eovaldi isn't shit" means "Trumbo > Hanley".

In terms of Hanley's true value, I'd say we got sh*t.

In terms of Hanley's true value, I'd say we got sh*t.

 

Hanley's value at the time was shit. He was an underperforming and overpaid player and we were lucky to be able to acquire talent and not have to pay a dollar of his contract. It was not a terrible deal at the time and still isn't because Hanley probably never has this comeback in Miami.

You guys missed my point. NNY said we traded Hanley and got s*** in return, which isn't true, Eovaldi has a lot of value. That was my only point. I never said Trumbo was better than Hanley, I don't know how "Eovaldi isn't s***" means "Trumbo > Hanley".

 

Never said that you thought Trumbo was better than Hanley. However, you did say that Trumbo can fill the same hole, which suggests that you feel that they are equivalent.

Hanley in 2011 was bad and injured.

 

Hanley in 2012 had power again, showed basically the same offensive skill set as his earlier career with the exception that he was sporting the lowest BABIP of his career.

 

All signs were there that he would come back fine.

 

We traded him at low value but that shouldn't come as a surprise. It was dumb to trade him when we did and it was rather dumb to trade him at all.

Never said that you thought Trumbo was better than Hanley. However, you did say that Trumbo can fill the same hole, which suggests that you feel that they are equivalent.

 

I didn't intend to say Hanley and Trumbo were equals. I didn't even think I insinuated that. I just said the return we got for Hanley wasn't shit as suggested.

To be fair, Eovaldi isn't "s***" and he could have netted us Mark Trumbo, which would have filled the same hole left by Hanley.

Hanley in 2011 was bad and injured.

 

Hanley in 2012 had power again, showed basically the same offensive skill set as his earlier career with the exception that he was sporting the lowest BABIP of his career.

 

All signs were there that he would come back fine.

 

We traded him at low value but that shouldn't come as a surprise. It was dumb to trade him when we did and it was rather dumb to trade him at all.

I don't remember a lot of folks saying that at the time - some, perhaps, but I don't think it was the prevailing opinion.

That's because a lot of people don't like Hanley.

 

He had a .51 BB/K (.57 in his career), .181 ISO (.204 in his career, and just moved into a lot worse hitting stadium), and a .271 BABIP (.334 in his career). Normalize his BABIP and you're looking at a very different line from him.

 

Now, nobody saw this explosion coming from him. I'm definitely not saying that we should have expected him to go monster mode, his season last year was just crazy. But him being a .850+ OPS bat again was so incredibly far from being far-fetched that it more or less should have been expected to be.

 

I didn't like it because signs pointed that his line would improve and we were selling low. I also didn't like it because "bad" Hanley is still a 3 WAR player. It was just dumb all around.

Unfortunately it was beginning to look like Hanley was injury-prone, plus he wasn't living up to the "team leader" responsibility the FO ridiculously laid on him. A lot of the reasons for his being traded were not in the statistics, just as you suggested.

It was a s*** return.

 

Easy to say now. At the time, I don't think everyone was up in arms. I'll be happy to dig it up. And if Eovaldi turns out to be the #2 arm everyone thinks he'll be, it really wasn't.

 

And Penguino: All I meant was Trumbo could fill the whole, not that they were equals.

Except Eovaldi is a #4, #3 maybe. Certainly not a #2. He's basically the definition of an average SP. No, he's not "shit", but he was a shit return because we sold low.

 

And no, a lot of people weren't up in arms because a lot of people don't like Hanley as I said before. For things like "lack of leadership" that YearOne brought up among other dumb things. I'm happy for Hanley as a human being to not be on this team anymore because ownership, the team, the fanbase, basically everyone treated him like shit.

I felt like well... let's wait & see if they do anything with the "Hanley money" saved.

 

how's that coming along so far? Stanton? anyone?

I don't remember a lot of folks saying that at the time - some, perhaps, but I don't think it was the prevailing opinion.

 

http://marlinsbaseball.com/threads/hanley-choate-to-la-for-eovaldi-mcgough.68914/

 

Go read through this if you would like. I wasn't the only one complaining about it being a straight up salary dump.

it absolutely was. and the main reason a lot of people weren't ripping the return was that that was basically all you were going to get for Hanley when you deal him at that low point AND don't throw in any of his salary. it's selling low, which is what we do.

A lot of the people who defended the Hanley trade did so on the assumption that the money saved from Hanley's contract would be spent on improving the team. It was pocketed by Loria.

 

That should infuriate everybody here.

 

EDIT: To be fair, the team just spent money on a guy like Salty for a few years, but at the time of the deal nobody saw the Blue Jays trade coming and we thought the "willing to spend" Loria was a for real thing.

 

EDIT2: I also read through the Hanley thread again, and I came across this post I made in the thread.

 

And to the stance that "players should be fearful that they will be traded" if signing with the Marlins, two of the guys we traded off have been with the Marlins since 2006, and Hanley got a 6 year big time deal. Infante was here on a two year deal and stayed here a season and a half of it, so he still has a chance to go wherever the hell he wants after the season. Same goes with Randy Choate.

 

If people are stupid, then they'll believe that the Marlins are going to trade them as soon as they sign them, but it's obviously not like that.

 

Oh god why

http://marlinsbaseball.com/threads/hanley-choate-to-la-for-eovaldi-mcgough.68914/

 

Go read through this if you would like. I wasn't the only one complaining about it being a straight up salary dump.

I skimmed it, and I do know there were plenty of folks who didn't like the deal. Still, there were many who wanted Hanley gone for a variety of reasons, including some of those who objected to the Dodgers deal. Personally, I doubt he would have flourished if he had stayed on this team so I too think it was good to move him. But I agree that we should have gotten a much better return.

Got a kick out of EDIT2! Thanks for sharing your old post.

And Penguino: All I meant was Trumbo could fill the whole, not that they were equals.

 

If you say that Trumbo fills Hanley's hole, doesn't that mean that Trumbo is matching Hanley's production?

If you say that Trumbo fills Hanley's hole, doesn't that mean that Trumbo is matching Hanley's production?

 

Dude stop picking fights. No, that's not what that means. For instance, Rafael Furcal was signed to fill the hole at second base. Doesn't mean he'll be any better, it just means that's what he is here to do.

And now filling the hole...Caseyyyyyyyyy Mcgeheeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

 

Woooo.

Casey McGehee = Mark Trumbo = Hanley Ramirez

Cause he fills the hole.

I'm trying so hard not to make a bunch of s***ty jokes about filling holes.

Too bad we don't really need old, retired pitchers, cause Dick Pole would fill that perfectly.

Dude stop picking fights. No, that's not what that means. For instance, Rafael Furcal was signed to fill the hole at second base. Doesn't mean he'll be any better, it just means that's what he is here to do.

 

You don't make any sense. When a good player leaves a "hole," in order for a replacement to "fill" the hole, he needs to match the predecessor's production. That's what "filling in" something means.

 

It sounds like you realized it was dumb to claim that Trumbo has the same value of Hanley (even a bad Hanley) and now you are trying to backtrack from it.

And now filling the hole...Caseyyyyyyyyy Mcgeheeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

 

Woooo.

 

Hechavarria also fills in the "hole" left by Jose Reyes.