I will never forget Jose.

I will never forget how exciting he was.

I will never forget the positive spirit he lived with.

I love and respect Jose the player and person forever.

I honor him and still grieve for his death.

He should be honored and respected. Somehow. Forever.

But I voted "no". I do not believe any human should be worshipped in sculpted representation. And I do not believe in constructing statues of humans unless strictly for artistic expression. This is not ancient Egypt. He is not a Pharaoh.

Jose should be honored, respected, and loved. He will forever remain in my heart.

I think other ideas to honor him should be considered. It shouldn't just be "yes to statue or no". I believe an artistic mural as a tribute would be appropriate, for example. Somewhere in or outside the stadium. Showcasing his time with the Marlins and off the field contributions. And his determination to become an American. Not just a baseball player in America. A mural would also be able to express his positive spirit and vibrant livelihood more than a statue. His life and death should be honored openly and abundantly, but I do not believe a statue of him honors his contributions appropriately.  Statues idealize humans, his life and death need to be honored, and respected.

This is fair.

 

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This and he wasn't making much of an effort to stay in Miami.

Proof?

 

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I voted yes. And this article encompasses why.

 

Marlins’ Jose Fernandez statue is divisive yet has a chance to serve a greater purpose

 

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/greg-cote/article146201879.html

 

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So if Jose would of had alcohol in his system only then the statue is okay. But, since he had coke it's not? I truly do not understand that. Both are equally bad..

 

Build a statue for the other 2? All 3 are equally responsible imo. 

 

If you get on a plane and have a few drinks, then the plane crashes because the Pilot had drugs in his system that made him make a bold and risky decision. Does that make the passengers who had a few drinks responsible too? It was Jose boat, he was the captain, they trusted him. It is the responsibility of Jose Fernandez (Captain) to say we are not going out tonight. In the other two guys minds they thought that Jose knew what he was doing.The other guys for all we know had 100% no boating skills. The blame goes onto Jose because it was his boat, in his name. And there was not enough strong evidence to dictate otherwise . If your gonna say the other guys were at fault, then you would have to apply this to rape and other crimes too

 

 

If you get on a plane and have a few drinks, then the plane crashes because the Pilot had drugs in his system that made him make a bold and risky decision. Does that make the passengers who had a few drinks responsible too?

That's not the same. The three were partying together. If the other 2 were not sober they knew Jose wasn't sober either. That's only the same as a plane and a pilot if the passengers are literally drinking and partying with the actual pilot. Because in your plane scenario the passengers wouldn't know that the pilot wasn't fit to fly the plane. In this scenario the other two guys knew what Jose had been doing. They were all in the same shit together that night. Equally at fault in my eyes.

 

 

 

I don't know why people bring up his short career as a reason not to make the statue. That shouldn't matter because he's dead. While he was here he shined bright and that's what matters even if it wasn't for long. His death makes the length of his career irrelevant in this debate. Same thing with the stupid idea that he might not have been a marlin forever. Other great players from other teams left their main teams in time and are still honored by those teams. To me the only thing that might make the statue not a good idea is his legal responsibility for the two other peoples deaths. Besides that one significant thing I see no problem with the statue.

 

 

Proof?

 

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All of the articles about the tepid negotiations between Fernandez and the Marlins. The general perception among commentators was that Fernandez was a goner.

 

 

All of the articles about the tepid negotiations between Fernandez and the Marlins. The general perception among commentators was that Fernandez was a goner.

 

Partial truth 

 

marlins offer the most or record breaking cash and he woulda most likely stayed. 

 

 

I don't know why people bring up his short career as a reason not to make the statue. That shouldn't matter because he's dead. While he was here he shined bright and that's what matters even if it wasn't for long. His death makes the length of his career irrelevant in this debate. Same thing with the stupid idea that he might not have been a marlin forever. Other great players from other teams left their main teams in time and are still honored by those teams. To me the only thing that might make the statue not a good idea is his legal responsibility for the two other peoples deaths. Besides that one significant thing I see no problem with the statue.

 

It absolutely matters because it reduced his impact on the franchise overall. Chris Volstad and Scott Olsen pitched more games for the Marlins for what it's worth. A legacy is contingent largely upon longevity and sustained impact upon the franchise. Jose was terrific when he was a Marlin, but that period lasted for a little more than a blink of an eye.

 

Other teams honor players who don't spend their whole careers with them, but could you point to any precedence of a team going as far to honor a player with a statue despite only having in the neighborhood of 76 starts with them? Seriously, I'd like to see it. Jose had 2 full seasons with the Marlins (2 incomplete seasons). Where else has there been a statue erected for that?

 

The problem here is that people generally have short term memory. As Erick put it, Jose was "good for a couple of seasons" but Jose is going to be remembered more for lost potential in the long run. I suspect that 12 years from now, or whenever, the decision to build a statue will seem quite weird because his time with the franchise was so limited.

 

 

Partial truth 

 

marlins offer the most or record breaking cash and he woulda most likely stayed. 

 

Of course, but that doesn't undermine my point. You are basically saying that Jose needed to be blown away by a huge offer. That seems to be an odd position for someone like Jose to take who was seemingly so attached to Miami and the local community.

 

 

Of course, but that doesn't undermine my point. You are basically saying that Jose needed to be blown away by a huge offer. That seems to be an odd position for someone like Jose to take who was seemingly so attached to Miami and the local community.

 

I don't disagree with you any on this subject. 

 

 

Of course, but that doesn't undermine my point. You are basically saying that Jose needed to be blown away by a huge offer. That seems to be an odd position for someone like Jose to take who was seemingly so attached to Miami and the local community.

 

The other thing is this:

 

Jose Fernandez would be a member of the Marlins rotation right now if he wasn't a fucking moron. 

 

Thats the truth whether any of you want to actually admit or acknowledge it. 

 

 

I think naming one of the streets was enough. Don't agree with the statue. A small plaque or something inside the ballpark I'm fine.

 

 

If you get on a plane and have a few drinks, then the plane crashes because the Pilot had drugs in his system that made him make a bold and risky decision. Does that make the passengers who had a few drinks responsible too? It was Jose boat, he was the captain, they trusted him. It is the responsibility of Jose Fernandez (Captain) to say we are not going out tonight. In the other two guys minds they thought that Jose knew what he was doing.The other guys for all we know had 100% no boating skills. The blame goes onto Jose because it was his boat, in his name. And there was not enough strong evidence to dictate otherwise . If your gonna say the other guys were at fault, then you would have to apply this to rape and other crimes too

 

Nope. Not true for several reasons. 

 

DUI and BUI are strict liability offenses. Meaning the mental state of the accused is irrelevant under the law. The fact the action was committed is enough for a conviction, which is why you can commit vehicular manslaughter solely because you were intoxicated while driving and hit someone. To commit murder or rape your mental state is one of the key elements of the offense. Which is why "heat of passion" can reduce a murder charge to a lesser manslaughter charge because you did not have the requisite mindset to be convicted of murder. 

 

As for the pilot example. You missed a key point. If you know the pilot is drunk or drinking  and you choose to ride in the plane anyway then yes you are equally responsible for the bad decision you made that lead to your death. Same goes for a car. Same goes for choosing to fly United. 

 

 

Of course, but that doesn't undermine my point. You are basically saying that Jose needed to be blown away by a huge offer. That seems to be an odd position for someone like Jose to take who was seemingly so attached to Miami and the local community.

It does. Also, consider the Marlins were on a spending binge with back loaded contracts. The only reason he didn't sign was because of Boras. Your point is nothing more than opinion or a partial fact at best.

 

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It does. Also, consider the Marlins were on a spending binge with back loaded contracts. The only reason he didn't sign was because of Boras. Your point is nothing more than opinion or a partial fact at best.

 

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The boras thing is so fucking overrated. 

 

 

The boras thing is so fucking overrated. 

 

How so?

 

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How so?

 

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Because boras works for the player not the other way. 

 

If the player wanted a deal boras woulda gave gotten one done. 

 

 

Because boras works for the player not the other way. 

If the player wanted a deal boras woulda gave gotten one done. 

No, you fail to see the point. Boras has a standard operating procedure of not allowing his players to sign before free agency. Fernandez was under club control. Your position only illustrates the point I'm making, Boras prevented the signing. Ultimately, fueling the rumors of his potential trade suitors. And, no. Boras manipulates his players to do what he says. And for the record, Boras works for himself not the players. He could care less what his clients want other than maximizing their monetary value so he can get his fat commission check.

 

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Can we open up this thread to yes or no on other existing or potential future tributes to Jose? Like retiring his number, a plaque, the patch on the jerseys, something at the all star game, naming a street, a mural, the signing walls at the ballpark, moments of silence, maybe something specific on future Sept 25th games, or anything else I didn't think of. Almost like a yes or no checklist... what do you all think would be good tributes and what shouldn't be done.

 

 

I vote no!  We don't need statues of good ballplayers any more than your place of business needs a statue of YOU because you are good at what your paid to do. So foolish.....the idolization. 

 

 

I get the point of view of those who voted yes. But a statue is so wrong. Roberto Clemente didn't get a statue right away after his passing and he died for a good cause and had an entire career with the Pirates

 

 

It's not the alcohol or the coke I think. It's being the driver of an accident that killed two other people that is the hard part. Everyone makes mistakes. If he died alone with those substances in his system people would have been sad but that's it. Being responsible for 2 other peoples deaths is what changes this.

 

Giving the other 2 GROWN man a pass is crazy. They could of easily said no your not in the right state of mind to drive, your leaving the boat parked and we're taking Uber or someone can pick us up. 

 

 

Giving the other 2 GROWN man a pass is crazy. They could of easily said no your not in the right state of mind to drive, your leaving the boat parked and we're taking Uber or someone can pick us up. 

I'm not giving them a pass. Legally Jose is responsible but personally I think all 3 fucked up. They all knew what they were doing.

[uSER=2328]@SilverBullet1929[/uSER] Question

 

Jose pitched 76 games for the Marlins over 4 seasons. Over that period he was arguably one of the best pitchers in MLB. Do you think he should be a realistic candidate for the MLB HOF? Why or why not?