DIMELO JETER

[DTrain]

He's a troll, what do you expect?

 

Son Of Jack has abandoned debate and has now gone down the name calling road. 

 

 

[Erick]

Going to preface this by saying our GM and FO is not these team's GMs and FOs.

 

Didn't the Cubs and Astros go on a five year plan of being awful to reach the promised land? Pretty sure that's what happened.

 

The plan is not to begin to compete in 2023, the plan is to have the pieces for sustained success by 2023.

 

Sorry that we aren't on a 100 win pace yet, guys.

 

I’m glad you prefaced it because it’s definitely not the same.

 

For one, those two front offices would’ve traded the relievers at the deadline for more prospects because they understand value. 

 

We’re placing our faith in a guy who’s done nothing to deserve it. Jeter has no experience doing this, and his first year on the job kinda shows it. Again, who are we building around right now? Forget positivity/negativity and just answer that question.

 

 

[Erick]

Something else to consider if you're underwhelmed with some of the minor league performances: 

 

This new FO has been really aggressive w promotions. Like as soon as a guy shows signs of settling in they get bumped up a level. They've done this with Diaz, Lopez, Yamamoto, Miller, Dunand, Pompey, Osiris, Scott, banfield. Really the only guy that's been able to get comfortable and accumulate good stats is neidert. I have a weird feeling that people would feel better about guys like Lopez and Diaz if they were just left in AA to pad their stats all year. 

 

None of the guys we have are young for their level or anything.

 

As a matter of fact, one of the top guys (Guzman) is actually a little old for his level...and struggling too.

 

 

[EricOwens!]

I know you’re being a jackass and mocking my post from the other day. A “five year” plan is the typical length for rebuilds. I do think they’ll compete before that anyway but it’s why I said 2023. That seems more sane than giving up on things months into the organizational rebuild.

 

The arbitrary 5 year window is when you'd expect a team to be competing for championships if everything went well. You should be able to tell 2-3 years in though whether the rebuilding is any good. Red flags: no elite prospects, almost all valuable trade assets are gone, top prospects aren't performing, you have the same gm as before, your head of baseball ops has no track record. 

 

 

[Erick]

The arbitrary 5 year window is when you'd expect a team to be competing for championships if everything went well. You should be able to tell 2-3 years in though whether the rebuilding is any good. Red flags: no elite prospects, almost all valuable trade assets are gone, top prospects aren't performing, you have the same gm as before, your head of baseball ops has no track record. 

 

No worries

 

 

[Admin]

You should be able to tell 2-3 years in though whether the rebuilding is any good.

 

2-3 years is more reasonable especially considering Michael explained how the "5 year" thing works, now explain the people who are calling it a total failure less than a year in please.

 

 

[Bazen]

Like a Tyler Kolek type talent?

 

Hopefully we take a guy with their arms fully intact 

 

 

[DTrain]

The arbitrary 5 year window is when you'd expect a team to be competing for championships if everything went well. You should be able to tell 2-3 years in though whether the rebuilding is any good. Red flags: no elite prospects, almost all valuable trade assets are gone, top prospects aren't performing, you have the same gm as before, your head of baseball ops has no track record. 

 

You hit the nail on the head in 3 sentences.  Well done, sir. 

 

 

[Erick]

2-3 years is more reasonable especially considering Michael explained how the "5 year" thing works, now explain the people who are calling it a total failure less than a year in please.

 

So if we’re still in the same situation next year (year 2), you’ll lose faith in Jeter? Basically you’re saying we should give it another year and hope these guys magically improve?

 

 

[fish20]

Ericks negativity is constant.  They have done a great job since they took over in acquiring talent both in trades and the draft and are doing their best and actually attempting to get involved in the IFA market even though they got to the negotiating table with this years batch of players late. 

 

Alcantara is a mid rotation guy and a dominant closer at worst.

 

Brinson struggled but he should never have been in the big leagues and that ws obvious from the start.  At the very least when he puts it together he will be an .800 OPS guy with low OBP but high slugging and 25-30 hr's.  He has potential to be a perennial all star.

 

harrison has struggled this year but will still finish with 20 hr's, 30 steals, great defense, a cannon arm, and an inevitable improvement in his K numbers with more experience.  He barely played in high A ball before we rushed him to AA and he hasnt been great with all the K's but he has shown the potential to be a 20/20 guy in RF for years to come. 

 

Neidert has been terrific and is another mid rotation guy under team control long term.

 

By all accounts we absolutely crushed the early rounds of the draft this year and actually spent money to acquire more talent for once.

 

Isan Diaz is a 2b of the future who is a perfect fit for modern day baseball with left handed power, as well as high K's but also an incredible amount of walks. 

 

Devers has held his own despite being ridiculously young for his league.

 

Yamamoto was great, he just has had a few injuries but he too is at worst a good middle reliever.

 

Christopher Torres in the dee gordon deal on top of Neidert was an absolute steal. 

 

Mags sierra has struggled this year but he can spend all of next year in AAA and still be just 23 and if you actually dive into his numbers for his career he has struggled to hit at the beginning of each level he has been at before inevitably turning it around and becoming a quality hitter.  Why they are rushing him is beyond me, but him struggling given his lack of experience and style of hitting shouldnt be surprising.

 

Guzman has been dissappointing as a starter this year with his control but his starts generally are not him being constantly hit around, they are him running out of gas in later innings of his start and his numbers not accurately reflecting how dominant his stuff is relative to his competition.  He is likely a reliever but he will be a dominant reliever at the very worst. 

 

All in all, you are being beyond overly negative and didnt know what to expect moving forward in a rebuild if you thought the only way it would be successful is if every prospect tore up the minors at every level absent of context that minor league results need to be viewed with.

 

 

[Erick]

Ericks negativity is constant.  They have done a great job since they took over in acquiring talent both in trades and the draft and are doing their best and actually attempting to get involved in the IFA market even though they got to the negotiating table with this years batch of players late. 

 

Alcantara is a mid rotation guy and a dominant closer at worst.

 

harrison has struggled this year but will still finish with 20 hr's, 30 steals, great defense, a cannon arm, and an inevitable improvement in his K numbers with more experience.  He barely played in high A ball before we rushed him to AA and he hasnt been great with all the K's but he has shown the potential to be a 20/20 guy in RF for years to come. 

 

Neidert has been terrific and is another mid rotation guy under team control long term.

 

By all accounts we absolutely crushed the early rounds of the draft this year and actually spent money to acquire more talent for once.

 

Isan Diaz is a 2b of the future who is a perfect fit for modern day baseball with left handed power, as well as high K's but also an incredible amount of walks. 

 

Devers has held his own despite being ridiculously young for his league.

 

Yamamoto was great, he just has had a few injuries but he too is at worst a good middle reliever.

 

Christopher Torres in the dee gordon deal on top of Neidert was an absolute steal. 

 

Mags sierra has struggled this year but he can spend all of next year in AAA and still be just 23 and if you actually dive into his numbers for his career he has struggled to hit at the beginning of each level he has been at before inevitably turning it around and becoming a quality hitter.  Why they are rushing him is beyond me, but him struggling given his lack of experience and style of hitting shouldnt be surprising.

 

All in all, you are being beyond overly negative and didnt know what to expect moving forward in a rebuild if you thought the only way it would be successful is if every prospect tore up the minors at every level absent of context that minor league results need to be viewed with.

 

Maybe you’re just delusional?

 

Already proclaiming we had a great first draft when those guys have proven nothing. Just because the first 3 guys were promoted fast doesn’t mean they were doing great at their previous level. Look at the numbers.

 

My negativity hasn’t been constant, but the more time passes by, the more clueless they look.

 

I also like how you say guys like Alcantara are “dominant closers at worst.” Lol. Why?

 

I know Jeter had a rough start because Loria left behind the worst farm system in baseball, but, keep in mind, what you’re hyping up is still one of the worst farm systems in baseball. Everybody agrees that we’re still in the bottom third of baseball in regards to farm systems. And the big league team is running dry on talent so good luck adding to that farm system. 2033 here we come.

 

 

[DTrain]

Ericks negativity is constant.  They have done a great job since they took over in acquiring talent both in trades and the draft and are doing their best and actually attempting to get involved in the IFA market even though they got to the negotiating table with this years batch of players late. 

 

Alcantara is a mid rotation guy and a dominant closer at worst.

 

Brinson struggled but he should never have been in the big leagues and that was obvious from the start. At the very least when he puts it together he will be an .800 OPS guy with low OBP but high slugging and 25-30 hr's.  He has potential to be a perennial all star.

 

harrison has struggled this year but will still finish with 20 hr's, 30 steals, great defense, a cannon arm, and an inevitable improvement in his K numbers with more experience.  He barely played in high A ball before we rushed him to AA and he hasnt been great with all the K's but he has shown the potential to be a 20/20 guy in RF for years to come. 

 

Neidert has been terrific and is another mid rotation guy under team control long term.

 

By all accounts we absolutely crushed the early rounds of the draft this year and actually spent money to acquire more talent for once.

 

Isan Diaz is a 2b of the future who is a perfect fit for modern day baseball with left handed power, as well as high K's but also an incredible amount of walks. 

 

Devers has held his own despite being ridiculously young for his league.

 

Yamamoto was great, he just has had a few injuries but he too is at worst a good middle reliever.

 

Christopher Torres in the dee gordon deal on top of Neidert was an absolute steal. 

 

Mags sierra has struggled this year but he can spend all of next year in AAA and still be just 23 and if you actually dive into his numbers for his career he has struggled to hit at the beginning of each level he has been at before inevitably turning it around and becoming a quality hitter.  Why they are rushing him is beyond me but him struggling given his lack of experience and style of hitting shouldnt be surprising.

 

Guzman has been dissappointing as a starter this year with his control but his starts generally are not him being constantly hit around, they are him running out of gas in later innings of his start and his numbers not accurately reflecting how dominant his stuff is relative to his competition.  He is likely a reliever but he will be a dominant reliever at the very worst. 

 

All in all, you are being beyond overly negative and didnt know what to expect moving forward in a rebuild if you thought the only way it would be successful is if every prospect tore up the minors at every level absent of context that minor league results need to be viewed with.

 

One of the most amazing posts in Marlins Baseball history. 

 

So much delusion.  While trying to be ultra pro-new ownership, this guys points out several glaring problems with new ownership. 

 

 

[fish20]

Maybe you’re just delusional?

 

Already proclaiming we had a great first draft when those guys have proven nothing. Just because the first 3 guys were promoted fast doesn’t mean they were doing great at their previous level. Look at the numbers.

 

My negativity hasn’t been constant, but the more time passes by, the more clueless they look.

 

I also like how you say guys like Alcantara are “dominant closers at worst.” Lol. Why?

 

I know Jeter had a rough start because Loria left behind the worst farm system in baseball, but, keep in mind, what you’re hyping up is still one of the worst farm systems in baseball. Everybody agrees that we’re still in the bottom third of baseball in regards to farm systems. And the big league team is running dry on talent so good luck adding to that farm system. 2033 here we come.

 

Ive looked at the numbers.  They were doing fine in their previous level despite being super young and are continuing their success at young age at an even higher level in greensboro.  It is obviously super early, but the initial returns have been incredibly encouraging.

 

Alcantara is a dominant closer at worst because he has been consistent as a starter throughout the minors and his fastball and secondary stuff will play up even more out of the big league bullpen.

 

And no, everyone doesnt agree that were still in the bottom third of baseball in regards to farm systems.  Also, the big league team isnt running dry on talent.  We are actually set up quite well for the future for year 1 of a long term rebuild.

 

 

[Erick]

I don’t even know where to start with this post? 

 

Erick/Eric Owens, do you guys want to go first?

 

All of the worst case scenarios for the guys are them becoming dominant in another role. Seems reasonable...

 

I can’t wait until Scott, Johnson & Banfield start struggling (they already are) and fish20 blames it on the fact they were rushed. And who is rushing these guys again? Oh right, Jeter...

 

Mind you, some of these guys aren’t even being rushed. It’s pretty crazy we’re still blaming Brinson’s struggles on being rushed. He’s 24 years old, not 19.

 

 

[Erick]

Ive looked at the numbers.  They were doing fine in their previous level despite being super young and are continuing their success at young age at an even higher level in greensboro.  It is obviously super early, but the initial returns have been incredibly encouraging.

 

Alcantara is a dominant closer at worst because he has been consistent as a starter throughout the minors and his fastball and secondary stuff will play up even more out of the big league bullpen.

 

And no, everyone doesnt agree that were still in the bottom third of baseball in regards to farm systems.  Also, the big league team isnt running dry on talent.  We are actually set up quite well for the future for year 1 of a long term rebuild.

 

Ok Derek.

 

 

[Erick]

Connor Scott hit .223 with 0 home runs in 27 rookie ball games before his promotion to Greensboro.

 

Don’t let @fish20 fool you. None of these kids were dominating in rookie ball and they’ve continued to struggle in A ball.

 

If Brinson was rushed, I can’t wait to hear what he’ll say about Scott, Johnson & Banfield at this time next year. None of the 3 earned the promotion if you look at their rookie ball #’s.

 

 

[fish20]

All of the worst case scenarios for the guys are them becoming dominant in another role. Seems reasonable...

 

I can’t wait until Scott, Johnson & Banfield start struggling (they already are) and fish20 blames it on the fact they were rushed. And who is rushing these guys again? Oh right, Jeter...

 

Mind you, some of these guys aren’t even being rushed. It’s pretty crazy we’re still blaming Brinson’s struggles on being rushed. He’s 24 years old, not 19.

 

I said two guys worst case scenarios are dominant relievers.  As 2 high profile minor league starters with perhaps the 2 fastest fastballs in the minors, thats not going out on a limb.

 

Im not sure what role you think jeter has.  He isnt making decisions on when to promote minor leaguers.

 

You can be rushed at 23 (which is what he was in spring).  It was clear he had a ton of potential but also that his AAA numbers in colorado last year were inflated and his impressive spring stats came with terrible peripherals that made it pretty obvious he was going to struggle.  I said that all spring.  

 

 

[Erick]

Banfield sucked in rookie ball too just like Scott.

 

 

[Erick]

I said two guys worst case scenarios are dominant relievers.  As 2 high profile minor league starters with perhaps the 2 fastest fastballs in the minors, thats not going out on a limb.

 

Im not sure what role you think jeter has.  He isnt making decisions on when to promote minor leaguers.

 

You can be rushed at 23 (which is what he was in spring).  It was clear he had a ton of potential but also that his AAA numbers in colorado last year were inflated and his impressive spring stats came with terrible peripherals that made it pretty obvious he was going to struggle.  I said that all spring.  

 

So, when will Brinson be ready? We traded Yelich for this guy so I think it’s fair to critique his play at some point. Should we wait until he’s 29 in 2023 before we begin to analyze his play?

 

As for Alcantara/Guzman, maybe they’re just not going to be that great? That’s actually their worst case scenario. I don’t think you understand what worst case scenario means if you think worst case is dominant reliever.

 

Speaking of rushed, Guzman’s coming along slowly. If you’re giving guys a pass for being too young for their level, you can’t give Guzman a pass considering he’s almost 23 and still in A ball. Pick a side.

 

 

[fish20]

Connor Scott hit .223 with 0 home runs in 27 rookie ball games before his promotion to Greensboro.

 

Don’t let @fish20 fool you. None of these kids were dominating in rookie ball and they’ve continued to struggle in A ball.

 

If Brinson was rushed, I can’t wait to hear what he’ll say about Scott, Johnson & Banfield at this time next year. None of the 3 earned the promotion if you look at their rookie ball #’s.

 

18 year olds out of high school almost never "dominate" the GCL.  The more important thing than their basic numbers are whether they are holding their own against older competition and all of them did.  Banfield was supposedly fantastic defensively and decent enough with the bat to earn a promotion. Johnson is 17 fucking years old and more than held his own at the plate, and Connor Scott's overall numbers were brought down by a bad start but absolutely raked the last few weeks, and he was drawing walks the entire time even during his struggles which indicates that he was falling into bad luck with a small sample size.  He started 4-43 but had 8 walks in that time and went on to hit 19/60 the remainder of his time in the GCL.

 

They arent being rushed because they are just giving those 3 guys a taste of what to expect when they start the year in greensboro next year, which is normal.

 

 

[fish20]

Banfield sucked in rookie ball too just like Scott.

 

no. no he didnt.

 

 

[fish20]

So, when will Brinson be ready? We traded Yelich for this guy so I think it’s fair to critique his play at some point. Should we wait until he’s 29 in 2023 before we begin to analyze his play?

 

As for Alcantara/Guzman, maybe they’re just not going to be that great? That’s actually their worst case scenario. I don’t think you understand what worst case scenario means if you think worst case is dominant reliever.

 

Speaking of rushed, Guzman’s coming along slowly. If you’re giving guys a pass for being too young for their level, you can’t give Guzman a pass considering he’s almost 23 and still in A ball. Pick a side.

 

Brinson is ready now.  He was turning the corner in june/july and got hurt.  He needed a month or 2 more of AAA seasoning to improve his plate discipline.

 

At no point did i say Guzman was being rushed.  I dont have to "pick a side" when im talking about completely different players.  You just want to label every player as the same without taking the time to look into the context of the numbers and situation.  So yes, I can say that one player is rushed and evaluate another player without also having to think that they are being rushed. 

 

 

[Erick]

Brinson is ready now.  He was turning the corner in june/july and got hurt.  He needed a month or 2 more of AAA seasoning to improve his plate discipline.

 

At no point did i say Guzman was being rushed.  I dont have to "pick a side" when im talking about completely different players.  You just want to label every player as the same without taking the time to look into the context of the numbers and situation.  So yes, I can say that one player is rushed and evaluate another player without also having to think that they are being rushed. 

 

You’ve said before that you thought this team could be competitive by 2020. Good luck with that.

 

 

[fish20]

You’ve said before that you thought this team could be competitive by 2020. Good luck with that.

 

Ive said the path to contention is to be a little below .500 next year, a fringe wild card contender (kind of what we were before the trades where we arent bad but arent a contender) in 2020 and then contention annually after that.  And I stick by that.

 

 

[Erick]

Ive said the path to contention is to be a little below .500 next year, a fringe wild card contender (kind of what we were before the trades where we arent bad but arent a contender) in 2020 and then contention annually after that.  And I stick by that.

 

You think this team will be “a little below .500 next year” based on the progress of the young players this year? Again, “good luck with that.”