PositiveHype

Well, I'll say this; Al Leiter shouldn't talk at this point. He's done and that's all there is to it. However, with that said, I have to ask; How many times are the Jack supporters going to defend him when players express displeasure or people critique him overall? Last time I checked, the fish are baseball's biggest disappointments this season. Are all of you going to jump into Biscayne Bay if Jack is fired after this season? :mischief2

Well, 1 run yesterday for the 33rd time scoring less then 3 runs in 114 games. That's nearly 30%. Anyway, they have gotten better, so I won't blame that entirely on the loss. My question is; Why was De Los Santos allowed to blow the lead? With him, if he gets lucky, you just sit him down and be thankful. You don't send him out until he blows the lead. Haven't we seen enough of that this year. It's like watching a Vic Darensbourg rerun. Also, when are the loyal Jack McKeon supporters going to get tired of the excuses and watching him sit leisurely on the bench like he could care less. Man, it's gotten to the point this year that if you go to the games at the stadium you see the players just going through the motions with whining, bitchy expressions on their faces and then when you see the games on TV, everytime something goes wrong, you see the shot of Jack with that clueless, "I don't give a f@#%", blank stare. Obviously nothing is likely to change, but if we don't make the postseason, I can't wait to see what Admin Beinfest does. Also, here's a suggestion for next year's Marlins promotional T-shirts: "Marlins Baseball 2006: NO EXCUSES-JUST WINS!!!" :whistle

Well, Raffy's back. Let's see how long will it take for everything to blow over. Anyway, even though there is know no doubt that he knowingly cheated and that Jose Canseco may be baseball's most "honest" former player ( :blink: ), I still vote Raffy in the Hall. He should be voted in with Pete Rose and "Shoeless" Joe Jackson. That would be appropriate. Anyway, for those of you that feel that he shouldn't make it because he was caught, are you all willing to revisit the aforementioned testimony by Jeffrey Leonard that cleared Willie Mays? If we keep guys that are proven to be cheaters, then we certainly need to find out what was Willie distributing that made players "bigger, stronger, faster, and better..." so we can determine if he knows of some other players that should not make it or should be removed from it. Also, shouldn't Willie be removed too? If he was distributing a performance enhancer, are people dumb enough to think that he didn't use something himself during his career in which he did things that not too many players during his era or any era could do? Are you all willing to take him out of the Hall if it can be proven?

Well, I respect the other points of view and understand them, but my point is what about the possibility that many of the legendary careers that landed players into the Hall of Fame may have been the result of performance enhancers. Many baseball people have said that it has been a problem in MLB since the 1960s. Should we ignore that when we know about the guys that were the stars from that time until now when we can catch guys that are doing it, but couldn't or wouldn't catch guys then? Also, I think that it is kind of hypocritical of the media when it is very likely that many of the guys that aren't going to vote guys like Palmeiro, Bonds, McGuire, and Sosa in also are aware of the players from the 1960s and 1970s that were doing it, but never broke those stories because it wasn't the thing to do back then. For example, how many of these same writers don't discuss the issue that I bring up here of it being a problem since the 60s like people have said? Also, why don't many of those same writers that covered things like the "Pittsburgh Drug Trials" of the 1980s discuss Willie Mays' name being cleared by Jeffrey Leonard by a testimony that seem to connect Willie (Barry's Bonds Godfather; Bobby Bonds personal friend) to steroid distribution when he was a Giants coach? If Willie was distributing it, do these same writers think that he is so innocent to have not used them in his career, which by the way covered through the 1960s to early 70s? How many other media darlings from those times may have been using something and everyone, including the sports writers, looked the other way. I don't see anyone questioning Mark McGuire and Jose Canseco's mentors with the Oakland A's? You know, Reggie Jackson, known for some flat out bombs produced by a very strong physical build and another very strong, muscular individual, Ricky Henderson, the man that shattered the SB record in a season and career? They were in that A's locker room with the Bash (or shall I say Stash) Brothers? Hard to believe with their accomplishments and the fact that they were knowingly at the scene of the crime that they could be innocent. In short, how can we keep guys out for getting caught when there are many guys that may have been doing the same thing. And the media in all likelihood may have known, but didn't report the media darlings. Doubt it? Look how long they covered Mantle's drunkeness during games. Overall, if we picked what was wrong with every MLB record, we would have to eliminate nearly every one of them and start all over with a clean slate. It's hypocritical to just pick and choose what is a valid record and what isn't. Any way, I think that this is the biggest sports discussion along with the major NBA trade with the Heat.

Yes, no matter the situation, I vote him into the Hall. Whether a person likes him or not after this, he should be there because no one can ever prove that all of the superstars of the past were innocent. I also would vote in Mark McGuire, Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, and would consider Sheffield if he reaches the 500 list too. Unless someone can get unquestionable proof that all of the past legends did absolutely nothing questionable to enhance their performances in their careers or prove that Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Cy Young, Rogers Hornsby, Lou Gehrig, Ted Williams, etc., etc. would have put up the same numbers in an unsegregated MLB, we can't deny these players their place among the baseball "immortals," especially if they did the same thing that alot of them may have done to be better ball players. Until someone can prove without a doubt that every current Hall of Famer has stats that were accomplished naturally, you have to vote in Raffy. If he isn't voted in, then steroids has also taken away the credibility of the Hall of Fame, since one guy will be left out for being reported and there may be many guys in the Hall that were never reported, but just as guilty. Also, do Pete Rose and "Shoeless" Joe Jackson look that bad now, when you have to compare their actions to what alot of players from nearly every era has or may have done in relation to performance enhancement? I think that not just personal stats, but games and even World Series championships were altered because of steroid use.

OK, the question is does he deserve to be in the Hall of Fame? I say yes because of this. If you look at many of the MLB records and legendary careers from certain perspectives, they can be considered not entirely valid as well. 1) Many people have said that steroids and other performance enhancers were in MLB since the 1960s. How do we know that the legends from that era weren't cheating too? Just because no one caught them nor the media reported the use, does that mean that they are clear to be respected and the current players to be criticized? What would happen if we ever found out that guys like Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle, Bob Gibson, Tom Seaver, etc. were using something? Before anyone jumps and defends those guys, consider that the legendary Willie Mays' name came up in the "Pittsburgh Drug Trials" of baseball in the 1980s, for giving players a mysterious substance. He was cleared when former MLB player, who Mays coached, testified that what Mays hadn't been distributing drugs , but was a special "red juice" that made players better than they actually were. Hmmm...Willie (ironically Barry Bonds' Godfather) did things in his career that no one in his era could do; kind of like Bonds in this era. Also, anyone that has played baseball has to wonder how anyone, no matter how good they were, could hit a baseball off of a MLB pitcher while he was drunk like Mickey Mantle. Not that I'm accusing anyone, but you have to wonder about all of those amazing, nearly superhuman, accomplishments of those past legends. 2) How about the fact that legends like Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Cy Young, Ted Williams, etc. put up their great numbers while playing in a segregated MLB that didn't allow for ALL of the world's best baseball players to play because of racism. What would their numbers have been like if the league wasn't watered down and they were facing great pitchers more often than just the few times that they did. How about facing additional good defensive players to cut off balls in the hole or hit into the gaps? How about Cy Young or other top pitchers from those eras having to face not just guys like Ruth, but also having to face additonal guys like Josh Gibson (world record holder HRs-season & career)? There are many other reasons I can play devil's advocate. Just look at just these 2 issues and you'll see that they cover about 90% of MLB history. You can look into other things and invalidate the rest of MLB history. What records and legendary careers are left when you eliminate every record from just the Steroid Era and then the Segregated Era? There would be nothing left. I say let these guys in and just keep making corrections to improve the game for its future.

:notworthy ? :notworthy ? :notworthy ? :notworthy ? :notworthy ? :notworthy ? :notworthy ...bandwagoner :plain 885372[/snapback] Let me see, Malman has been here since August, 2002 (member #32) and rorod has been here since ooooh what is it, July 2005 (member #2,347) and the latter is calling the former a "bandwagoner". Wow !!! Absolutely freakin' WOW !!!! :brigginbounce 885397[/snapback] I think he was calling out PositiveHype, not Malman. 885423[/snapback] When have I been a bandwagoner? I have never hated the fish and if you look at my posts, I still say that I disagree with Jack and his coaching staff's handling of the team, but won't say much because they are winning right now. How is this jumping on a bandwagon? I was driving it since we got a team down here and I was just hoping to throw this coaching staff off before the wagon came to a hault this season. I stick with the fish and bleed teal and will criticize anything that I don't like to see and will celebrate when it's deserving. Whew...some of you guys confuse me. If you want, refer to me as being like Randy Quaid's character in the "Major League" movies, but don't call me a bandwagoner. :mad 885436[/snapback] And by the way, I'm a fan that actually goes to the game and doesn't sit at home, gathering dust, on a heavy-duty couch or recliner, exercizing my remote control hand (double meaning). Any way... let's go fish!!!

:notworthy ? :notworthy ? :notworthy ? :notworthy ? :notworthy ? :notworthy ? :notworthy ...bandwagoner :plain 885372[/snapback] Let me see, Malman has been here since August, 2002 (member #32) and rorod has been here since ooooh what is it, July 2005 (member #2,347) and the latter is calling the former a "bandwagoner". Wow !!! Absolutely freakin' WOW !!!! :brigginbounce 885397[/snapback] I think he was calling out PositiveHype, not Malman. 885423[/snapback] When have I been a bandwagoner? I have never hated the fish and if you look at my posts, I still say that I disagree with Jack and his coaching staff's handling of the team, but won't say much because they are winning right now. How is this jumping on a bandwagon? I was driving it since we got a team down here and I was just hoping to throw this coaching staff off before the wagon came to a hault this season. I stick with the fish and bleed teal and will criticize anything that I don't like to see and will celebrate when it's deserving. Whew...some of you guys confuse me. If you want, refer to me as being like Randy Quaid's character in the "Major League" movies, but don't call me a bandwagoner. :mad

Well, I know that this may ruffle some feathers? :blink: in Marlinland, but I have to say that I enjoyed Ozzie Guillen's support of my favorite style of baseball strategy, "Small Ball." I loved the part about him calling it "SMART BALL." I guess that before he's done, many people will start to realize the importance that he had when he was the Marlins' 3B coach. For those of you "nay sayers," Ozzie has the best record in baseball without having the best talent. It's good that even a moron can succeed with it. "RUN FOREST!!! RUUUUN!!!" Marlins vs White Sox---World Series very soon??? :mischief2 885334[/snapback] Maybe it's the other way around. Maybe he learned how to play "small ball" after he was the Marlins 3B coach in 2003, the year that all we did to win was play Small Ball. Now isn't that much more reasonable than implying that the 3B coach was actually telling the team how to play? 885422[/snapback] To say that is being uninformed about the game over the many years because he was doing the same thing in Atlanta with Bobby Cox, prior to 2003. He was also a "Small Ball" player in his career. So I think that it is safe to say that he was well-informed of it before 2003. :whistle

I'm throwing a crow BBQ this weekend for Lenny too. All of us Lenny doubters are invited for this special gathering. I will be officially announcing my change of referring to Lenny as the "automatic out" to another name. Lenny, this is for you. :notworthy

Well, I know that this may ruffle some feathers :blink: in Marlinland, but I have to say that I enjoyed Ozzie Guillen's support of my favorite style of baseball strategy, "Small Ball." I loved the part about him calling it "SMART BALL." I guess that before he's done, many people will start to realize the importance that he had when he was the Marlins' 3B coach. For those of you "nay sayers," Ozzie has the best record in baseball without having the best talent. It's good that even a moron can succeed with it. "RUN FOREST!!! RUUUUN!!!" Marlins vs White Sox---World Series very soon??? :mischief2

You reference the Marlins having a dismal record when failing to score 3 runs or more...this seems like a rather obvious stat...don't most teams have poor records when they fail to score 3 runs or more?? I was wondering if you might have some statistics to back up this "problem" the Marlins are having. Also, I you can correct me if I'm wrong...but I'm pretty sure the Marlins have not won a single game this year when they have scored less than one run! :whistle 885202[/snapback] Well, maybe I wasn't too clear about what I was trying to state about that part. I wasn't complaining that the Marlins should have a better record in those games. It's just me writing it to more-or-less give an idea how much of an impact that the problem has had on our teams position in the standings. To clarify, my complaint is that they have scored less than 3 runs in 32 of our 103 games. That's just too high a percentage of games for this to be happening in. However, I attempted to be positive in my post with the rest of what I wrote. I think that John Kruk said it best; The Marlins can be a dangerously dominant team if they make the postseason. 885258[/snapback] I did a quick review of the Cardinals schedule and it appears that the mighty cardinals have scored 3 or less runs 30 times so far this season...I might be off by a game or two...but whatever, I don't think the statistic you refer to is that meaningful. Every team is going to run into good pitching and sporatic batting slumps...it's part of the game. 885274[/snapback] So what you're saying is that everyone throughout the nation that has pointed out the Marlins hitting woes is innacurrate in their assessments? I guess that the problem is that they aren't dominating teams the way that they should when they score more than 3 runs per game. The fish are 51 and 20 in those games. I thought that was pretty good. What are the Cardinals doing when they score more than 2 runs? I can't do a search where I am, but according to your information, I guess that the Cards must be playing at about a .900 clip when they score more than 2 runs per game. Oh, and by the way, most of those games that I mentioned about the fish were prior to the All-Star break. I think that they have had only 2 since. Anyways, why am I having to go over this? I only complain when something needs to be said. Right now, although I still disagree with the way Jack and his coaches run the team, I can't complain because they are in a good groove and are finally starting to look like the team that they were expected to be. Let's go fish...Let's go fish!!! Go Marlins!!!

You reference the Marlins having a dismal record when failing to score 3 runs or more...this seems like a rather obvious stat...don't most teams have poor records when they fail to score 3 runs or more? I was wondering if you might have some statistics to back up this "problem" the Marlins are having. Also, I you can correct me if I'm wrong...but I'm pretty sure the Marlins have not won a single game this year when they have scored less than one run! :whistle 885202[/snapback] Well, maybe I wasn't too clear about what I was trying to state about that part. I wasn't complaining that the Marlins should have a better record in those games. It's just me writing it to more-or-less give an idea how much of an impact that the problem has had on our teams position in the standings. To clarify, my complaint is that they have scored less than 3 runs in 32 of our 103 games. That's just too high a percentage of games for this to be happening in. However, I attempted to be positive in my post with the rest of what I wrote. I think that John Kruk said it best; The Marlins can be a dangerously dominant team if they make the postseason.

Mikey had a nice 322 avg for July. But, most of those hits were without the Lowell Power. I remember (from years ago) that Power is also the result of wrist action when contacting the ball. I don't like Bill Robinson. That said, I am surprised no one has spotted Mikey's problem. And no I don't buy the 'roids theory. In my frustration for not understanding, I reiterate that Bill Robinson should be replaced. Unfortunately, I can't think of a replacement. Can't believe that no one on our roster can help Lowell. By way of desperate insanity, I would have Mikey spend some batting practice swinging lefty! (Only ballplayers would appreciate that extreme exercise.) 883030[/snapback] I did see the problems with his fundamentals too and wondered the same thing that you have, especially since Bill Robinson get's paid good $$$ to solve those problems. However, Mikey is hitting and I won't question his groove until the end of the season when the Marlins prepare for 2006. If Mikey finishes with 10-15 HRs, 70+ RBI, and about .260+ AVG, I would be satisfied for this season after all of his struggles. HRs to me are over-rated. Not that Mikey is the same type of player as these following players, but you can drive in alot of runs with not that many HRs. Remember, these guys that broke the 100 RBI mark without that many HRs: Tommy Herr, Willie McGee, Glenn Wilson, Hubie Brooks---just to name a few. Mikey is similar to what Hubie Brooks and Glenn Wilson were, except for the fact that he hits a few more homers. Oh yeah, and Mikey drove in 100 RBI a few years ago with just 18 HRs. Just a thought, but I'm with you on his batting fundamentals. Let's not question it though while he's hitting and the fish are winning. :thumbup

Well, I was out of town over the weekend and couldn't follow anything so I can't critique Jack McKeon's decision making, even in the game in which they scored less than 3 runs again (which makes them 3 and 29 in those games). I also, haven't been able to check on anything because I returned to the classroom today to set up for the new year. So, I'll say this from a currently blind point of view. The Marlins are winning and if they can keep this current pace, they still have a shot at the playoffs, in particular the division title. Although, to win the division, they probably are going to have to knock the Braves down themselves becuase I really don't think that any of the other NL East teams are going to be able to beat them from this point on. The fish may also need at least 1 head-to-head sweep against them. Anyway, the Marlins have won 9 out of 12 and I'll take that. I still would prefer the 10 game winning streak method over the taking 2 out of 3 method. But, the rule of thumb is "never look a gift horse in the mouth." So, I'm not going to look in this horse's (or fish) mouth nor am I going to question any of Jack or Bill Robinson's decisions while the fish are still winning and climbing. Let's go fish...Let's go fish!!! Go Marlins!!! :thumbup :notworthy

I rather pull up Wilson or Andineo and see what we have to deal with next year. I mean really and honestly, Easily is not the answer there. He was terrible last night from what I could see at the game. For those at home did he look any better on TV? 876246[/snapback] That's a good idea since we may be losing Alex after this season. At least they will know whether to pursue someone at that position or not. As for the question on Easily looking good, I don't think that Pax or FSN carries the same special effects equipment as MGM or Universal Studios to make Easily's defense last night look good in any way. :blink:

Wow, June 24th is very bad. That's like being a last place club. Oops, we are one. I don't know. I personally have said that the team isn't aggressive enough. I know one thing; while we are losing the first game of every series, it's just a matter of time before that Braves team starts one of their annual 7-10 game winning streaks in which they end up winning about 15 games in a 20 game span. If that happens while we're flirting with mediocrity, this season is over. I'm not sure that I want to compete with the Astros or Cubbies for the Wild Card. Those teams are really good when everything is in place. :confused

I think Miggy would be a defensive liability there because of the possible lack of range, but you never know, but what happens when he adjusts to it and then has to return back to LF when A. Gonz returns? Miggy needs to stay where he's at until the time comes to move him permanently to 3B.

Well, I notice all of the Jack bashers are back. At least I was consistent being here yesterday BEFORE the fish lost. My assessment of yesterdays game was that I was thrilled for the first 3 innings. They did pretty much everything that I was begging for although I wasn't entirely satisfied with the 1st inning. Pierre did what he does best and we scored as a result, but after that, the 1st inning was just another 1 run-4hit inning, which is what I have been complaining about all year. My issue is that part of the lack of aggression that is missing is a runner trying to advance from 1B to 3B on a basehit, but only when it is wise to do so. I'm not saying that Delgado should have tried to get to 3B on that play; what I'm saying is part of the reason we have problems scoring is that there is too much base-to-base strategy. I'm sorry, but if you get 4 hits in an inning, which the Marlins often do, you should get at least 2 runs and 3 runs about 1/3rd of the time. If someone can track down the number of 4-hit/walk combination innings the fish have had this season that resulted in only 1 run, you can see how many runs are getting away that should be scored. However, I won't blame anyone for that 1st inning because it would have been a bad decision for Delgado to go the 3B in that case. My favorite point was when Cabrera scored on the shallow sacrifice fly. That's the aggression that I love. See, that was an inning with a 4-hit/walk combination that resulted in 2 runs. That's acceptable to me. As for afterwards, anyone that thinks that we should have been waiting for a big bomb after we were down 3 runs in the middle of the game doesn't know baseball. You can easily pick away at the lead until you're in position to be tied or win. Why didn't they do that? Also, I am one of those that says that Jack does not make good decisions with the bullpen, so I won't repeat myself again. Finally, I have to say that I'm becoming content with the fact that Jack and his coaching staff will be here teasing everyone for the rest of the season. Those of us that have realized that a change needs to be made need to accept that reality and just hope that what we saw in the first 3 innings was a sign of Jack conforming to what actually works in this stadium. By the way, those of you "geniuses" that debate me about my desire to see more "small ball," do you happen to know where the Marlins rank in home records? They are near the bottom of the NL. Hmmm, I complain that Jack's offensive strategy doesn't work in this stadium and I'm criticized, but for some reason our team has one of the worst home records. I wonder how many of those 31 games in which the fish scored less than 3 runs were here at Dolphins Stadium. I'm no expert, but based on the little bit that I know about baseball after being involved with it for over 20 years, I would guess that it's kind of hard to consistently hit 3-run homers in a stadium that has our RF fence and the "Bermuda Triangle," but what do I know. Any way, I want more of what I saw in the first 3 innings and we need Alex Gonzalez back and some better pitching. Another 2 game winning streak brought to an end. :banghead :banghead

Logan was a reliever in college, so he should transition fine back there not sure why he was a starter to begin with(for us) 874965[/snapback] Hmmm? He gives up the rain-making bombs when he starts an inning with no pressure and now people think that he's going to do a better job coming into an inning with inherited runners and alot of pressure? Can we say grand slam or 3-run homer? I still say; he will be an erratic middle reliever at best or a starter on a last place, 100-losses team. If he's not throwing pregame batting practice to Lowell, he is worthless to this team. :mischief2 875030[/snapback] damn you might aswell be a royals fan dude. do you think anything is good on this team? 875084[/snapback] Yeah. Look at some of the other postings. There is even one where me and you actually agree on Todd Jones. 875098[/snapback] well honestly anyone who doesnt agree todd jones is a great guy has some serious issues. and this isnt opinion its fact. id also say 25 innings is not nearly enough time to prove your self or get enough experience. you write people off way to easily man. you make it sound like pitching in the bigs should be easy and something you pick up like riding a bike 875111[/snapback] Everyone knows that it isn't easy, but you can tell by a players natural tools. Kensing does not have a fastball that he can be throwing down the middle of the plate like he has been. All of the training in the world isn't going to make him increase the speed in it either because he isn't a 16 year old that is getting stronger everyday. His fastball is what it is. His other pitches also seem ineffective. Now, I'll give that he has not been able to throw them at the most favorable times because of his misuse of his fastball, but I really don't think that it would make much of a difference. I will say that some of the movement on his other pitches are OK, but need to be used in the right sequence from batter to batter otherwise, he'll continue throwing batting practice. Overall, he will be an erratic middle reliever at best unless he can be more consistent with his pitches. No matter what, I can't see him going against any lineup twice on any given night. One AB per hitter every other night is enough.

Logan was a reliever in college, so he should transition fine back there not sure why he was a starter to begin with(for us) 874965[/snapback] Hmmm? He gives up the rain-making bombs when he starts an inning with no pressure and now people think that he's going to do a better job coming into an inning with inherited runners and alot of pressure? Can we say grand slam or 3-run homer? I still say; he will be an erratic middle reliever at best or a starter on a last place, 100-losses team. If he's not throwing pregame batting practice to Lowell, he is worthless to this team. :mischief2 875030[/snapback] What is your deal man? Were you not hugged enough as a child? You have seen Logan Kensing up with the big club twice, and both times he wasnt ready. The guy has 25 major league innings under his belt and you are writing him off... typical 875100[/snapback] There certain things that stand out. His fastball is not going to get passed anyone at the MLB level period. I don't know why he thinks that he can keep throwing it in the middle of the plate. I saw that from his first MLB inning ever and wondered how did he get past that inning. Second, there aren't too many guys that have had as bad a beginning as Kensing and that lasted very long in MLB nor had very much success when they did put in a few years. In Marlins history, Nigel Wilson comes to mind. His start to his career is similar to a boxer that has lost his first 3 or 4 fights by getting KO'd in the first couple of rounds. Would you still bet on that guy? Hey, Kensing may turn it around, but right now he's either far from MLB ready and should stay down for at least 2 more years or he is just never going to be successful at the MLB level. A guy doesn't get bombed that bad and does a 360 over night or even in a couple years.

Logan was a reliever in college, so he should transition fine back there not sure why he was a starter to begin with(for us) 874965[/snapback] Hmmm? He gives up the rain-making bombs when he starts an inning with no pressure and now people think that he's going to do a better job coming into an inning with inherited runners and alot of pressure? Can we say grand slam or 3-run homer? I still say; he will be an erratic middle reliever at best or a starter on a last place, 100-losses team. If he's not throwing pregame batting practice to Lowell, he is worthless to this team. :mischief2 875030[/snapback] damn you might aswell be a royals fan dude. do you think anything is good on this team? 875084[/snapback] Yeah. Look at some of the other postings. There is even one where me and you actually agree on Todd Jones.

I'll revisit this thread at a later time.

He'll be a serviceable reliever one day relatively soon. 875063[/snapback] I like your euphemism. The word "servicable" sounds much better than my use of the word "erratic."