AGonzalez11

Say it with me....WE WANT FOULKE! If we're going to spend some decent $$ on a closer, we'd be much better off spending the extra 2-3 mil on Foulke than we would on getting Benitez. His stats may always look good, but he blows big games and will drive you crazy, just like Looper did.

I'm still eating crow from my "A-Gon bashing" of last spring. :banghead arent we all Not me

Bad news for us....Wagner is a top 3 closer in my book, only behind the obvious 2(Smoltz, Gagne). The only way that this can be somewhat positive is that they let Millwood walk and replace him with a cheap alternative and significantly weaken their rotation.

-Trade Lowell and Lee to the NYY for 1B Nick Johnson and 2B Alfonso Soriano. Trade Encarnacion to the Rockies for Justin Speier and prospects Urbina 5 mil $5mil for Uggy?.... ugh the Yanks would have no use for DLee(Bernie will prob DH and they have Giambi at 1st) why do the Rockies need another OF?(Payton, Wilson and Walker are fine) Urbina made 4.5 mil last year...and after having a 1.40 ERA or somewhere around there as a Marlin, I doubt he'd take a pay cut. What I've been hearing from NYY Land is they will move Bernie to LF, ?? in CF and Matsui to RF. Giambi still DH's and Johnson or his replacement, at 1B. That's where Lee comes in. Rockies would do anything to dump Walker after last year, and Encarnacion would be a perfect replacement...Enc in Coors would probably have a similar breakout to Wilson's.

-Trade Lowell and Lee to the NYY for 1B Nick Johnson and 2B Alfonso Soriano. I'm in the Derrek Lee sucks club, so I won't miss him...It's tough to lose Lowell, but We trade a projected 16-18 million in those two while only getting back 5 mil (Soriano 3 mil, Johnson 2) Trade Encarnacion to the Rockies for Justin Speier and prospects Trade Mark Redman to the Padres for prospects sign Vladimir Guerrero Sign Joey Eischen Re-sign Pudge, Urbina CF-Pierre-$2 mil 2B-Soriano-$3.5 mil C-Rodriguez-$8.5 mil RF-Guerrero-$14 mil 3B- Cabrera-$.3 mil 1B Johnson-2 mil LF-Conine-3 mil SS-Gonzalez-2 mil 35.3 Mordecai-500k Harris-600k Nunez 300k Banks-400k Castro-400k Fox 500k 2.7 Beckett-2mil Penny-2.5 mil Willis-.3 mil Pavano 2.5 mil Burnett 2mil (helling starts until ready10.3 Urbina 5 mil Speier 1 mil Eischen 1 mil Fox 900k Almanza/Tejera 300k Helling/Bump 500,000 8.6 Hampton-8 mil Pudge deffered-3 mil TOTAL 66 Million Let me dream...

So my question to you is...Would you move Lowell for Soranio if Casstillo signs elsewhere? AL "FAN" SO Soriano is not my ideal off-season pick. Better Guerro who has the power and big play ability that we are looking for. And trust me we'll have space in that Outfield for him. Well, my point int his post was to be somewhat realistic...Berendino is tallking about the Marlins probably going to non-tender Burnett because they have to get the payroll down to 60 mil...and you guys really think we have a shot at getting Guerrero? The only way thats possible is 3 of 4 of Enc, Lowell Lee and Pudge are gone and their replacements make the league minimum..and even then, thats still probably not enough to put Guerrero's 15 mil on our payroll.

Want a good setup man? How about Curtis Leskanic?

Yes. Then you put Cabs at 3B. And believe it or not, this deal SAVES the Marlins money. IT saves us loads of money..Lowell will get 9 or 10 mil if re-signed to a long term deal..while Soriano is only in his first year of arbitration, so hell get 2.5-3 mil. Hope you're not serious about rather having a career minor leaguer like Hooper over a guy who hit 39 HR and 41 steals while hittng .300 last year and had 36 HR and 38 steals this year.

Guerrero is going to be a Oriole. Not a Marlin. link? or is this your opinion? damn, you'd kill for da fish to sign him huh? :thumbup I think we all would...But It just ain't gonna happen. And if it somehow did, Lowell and Pudge would have to be gone to free up that type of $.

Gammons claims the NYY WILL trade Soranio and/or Nick Johnson for "more established players" New York has been hot for Lowell for a while now and with Aaron Boones struggles, they probably would still love to have him. Gammons mentioned that they could move Boone to 2nd to replace Soriano if he is dealt. So my question to you is...Would you move Lowell for Soranio if Casstillo signs elsewhere? My personal opinion is..hell yes. I love Lowell but he's one year removed from free agency, and will cost a ton to re-sign, while Soriano is only 25 years old, has more power, MUCH more speed and much more upside. The kid has sick talent...granted, he strikes out way too much, but he's still more than capable of being a 40-40 man and the only one that even sniff that teritory are the greats like Guerrero. I wouldn't use Soriano as a leadoff man though, obviously with Pierre here....he just doesnt have the swing to be a leadoff hitter, and i never understood why the Yankskept him there. Yes he's faster than almost anyone(except Juan P), but leadoff men aren't supposed to strike out much and he does...I'd bat him 4th or 5th and let him drive in runs instead of hitting all his HR's with no men on. Thoughts?

Arizona won't trade Cintron...he's young and cheap and showed a lot of upside..Spivey could go however, and thats what I was getting at... And I realize it's fun to dream...but do you guys honestly think we have a shot at getting Guerrero? We're going to have enough problems keeping half our guys here...let alone adding the best free agent available since ARod and pay him 15 mil+

But at the same time, take it more as fantasy than realism 1B- Trade Derrek Lee to the Padres for Ryan Klesko. SD wants a RH bat to break up Giles/Kotsay/Bourroghs..Lee is younger, and alot better defensively. Klesko, however only makes 5.5 or 6 M while Lee will probably get over 8, so we save around 3 M. 2B-Do everything in your power and re-sign Castillo...but if the market gets ridiculous for him, trade for a replacement. I;ve read he could get up to as much as 7 Mil per year and as much as i love Louie, thats just too much. If we do have to replace him, we wont get Alfonso Soriano or Jose Vidro...but someone like Junior Spivey could be interesting...with Alex Cintron playing well, I think the D-Back would move him for pitching help. SS-Re-sign Gonzalez...Future gold glover and proved hes a much better hitter than what he's shown. 3B-As much as I hate to say this..but..Trade Lowell. I love Mike Lowell to death, but i honestly dont believe he is a 35-40 HR hitter and he's probably going to be paid for being one after this year. He's the heart and soul of this team but I don't want any more C Johnson or P Wilson contracts and if Lowell is going to get 10 mila year to sign a long term deal, thats just too much. Put Miguel at 3B. LF-Niner, as clutch as they come, relativley cheap..no need to replace him CF-Pierre-no brainer RF-Trade Encarnacion. I Was shocked when i saw he could be awarded up to 6.5 mil in arbitration. Yes, he's very good defensively, and a good run producer...but his power is only adequate and i really dont feel comforatable paying him that much. Again, I like Enc, but I dont want bad contracts that force us to make dumb deals. I Replace him by signing Jose Guillen...Personally i doubt anyone gives Guillen a huge contract after the Jeffrey Hammonds debacle a few years ago..one good year wont get the bank anymore. I'd give him a 2 year deal at 3.5 mil per year with a lot of incentives. Club option for a 3rd year at 7 M per. C-Re-sign Pudge. This team wouldn't be the same without him...We have to keep him. Bench- Mordecai-What can I say? The little guy is as clutch as they come and is almost like a player-coach. Redmond or Castro-I love Ramon but i doubt he stick around to be a 3rd catcher again, and honestly, I think he deserves better. If pudge signs long term, deal Castro to the AL and do him a favor. Fox-If he takes a pay cut..800k is too much for a utility guy. IF not, replace him with anyone cheaper, maybe Hooper or trade for someone like Mark Bellhorn OF-Abraham Nunez-would make a nice pinch runner, and played well in the minors...he's earned his chance Harris-Nice bat off the bench Brian Banks-nice bat off the bench Pitchers- Beckett-No brainer Willis-no brainer Penny-showed as much improvment as Beckett did IMO. He's become a pitcher and not a thrower and he couldnt have picked a better time to do it. Pavano-I Sure as hell thought Pavano would be the odd man out but he stepped up big time and more than deserves to keep his job. Now, I;d like to keep both Redman and A.J...But that just isn't very realistic. Can't pay a 6th starter/long relief guy 3.5 mila year..So Trade Redman, and Helling can start until A.J. Is ready. Burnett has WAY too much upside to even consider moving him. Did the cubs move Kerry Wood after he had TJ surgery? I'll be IRATE if Burnett is let go Bullpen- Closer-Try and re-sign Urbina...and if he gets a big contract somewhere else, sign Keith Foulke to replace him. You need a top notch closer to compete seriously and the Phillies proved that to us last year. I love Urbina so i'd like to see him back, But something tells me he will take the most money and that probably wont be us. He had like a 1.4 ERA and a WHIP under 1 and an opposing BA of .170, so I think he will get plenty of interest. Foulke struggled a little down the stretch for the A's and for whaever reason, teams seem to lose confidence in him despite his incredible stats. Trade Looper..I'm indifferent with Looper, i dont really hate him as some do but I don't really like him. But you cant pay a setup guy 3 mil when you can only have a 60-70 mil payroll. Sign Joey Eischen..or trade for Scott Sauerbeck. Eischen had been more than dependable for the Spos the last 2 years and Sauerbeck, while he struggled mightily for the Bo-Sox, held Lefties under .200 BA. Re-sign Fox-No brainer IMO, He was huge. Trade for a RH Setup man Possibly in one of the Lowell/Juan E trades. The one guy that catches my eye is Justin Speier. He has a nasty slider, mid 90s fastball and a funky delivery. He's reasonably cheap and even saved some gaves for the Rocks. Have Almanza take a pay cut and let him battle it out with Tejera in spring training. Almanza pitched injuries throught last season, and he's always been a good LH Reliever, keeping lefties to .200 averages. The elbow injury didn't allow him to throw his best pitch, his curve, because the torque it puts on the elbow. Whoever outperforms the other in ST gets the 2nd lefty job. So in recap.... Juan Pierre Luis Castillo/Junior Spivey Pudge Rodriguez Miguel Cabrera Jose Guillen Ryan Klesko Jeff Conine Alex Gonzalez Bench: Redmond Mordi Fox Harris Nunez Banks Josh Beckett Brad Penny Carl Pavano Dontrelle Willis Rick Helling/A.J Burnett Ugeth Urbina/Keith Foulke Justin Speier Scott Sauerbeck/Joey Eischen Chad Fox Armando Almanza/Michael Tejera Nate Bump and possibly replace him with Helling when A..J is back

Personally, I am a HUGE fan of the Panthers and the NHL in general, so the NHL makes the baseball offseason go by pretty quickly... But just out of curiosity, what hobbies do you guys pick up while the Fish are on vacation?

I've always felt Foulke was one of the most underrated closers...he always has a great WHIP (under 1) and the opposing BA is always under .200. He doesn't throw very hard, but he has on eof the best changeups in the world...combine it with great control and you've got a mini-Hoffman. Don't get me wrong...I'd like to keep Urbina, but he's never been in a rush to stay in one place. If he does get offered more money somewhere else and takes it, How does Foulke sound as a replacement?

You guys are beyond nuts... Soriano is coming off a year where he hit 38 HR, 91 RBI and 36 SB...yes, he struggled horribly in the playoffs, but he's still only 25 years old and the best 2B in the league bar none. The Yankees won't deal Soriano, and if they did they'd get a hell of alot more than the garbage being tossed around in this thread. Pavano and Bump for Alfonso Soriano? :lol

I found tears of joy and sadness both creaping up in my eyes. Joy because we won the world series and sadness because the magical season is actually over. This one feels Waaayyyyyyy better than '97 because this team simply refused to lose and had so much charachter and love for each other. I Hope we keep the entire team in tact(not likely) and make the same run next year...This was too much fun to be over!! CONGRATS MARLINS!

UNREAL!!! Sotrybook ending for a storybook team. This one certainly feels better than 97. Gonzalez showed what he's capable when he's confident in himself. game winning HR in game 4, 2-4 with 2 RBI in game 5 and 2-3 in game 6 scoring the game winning run. No way in hell should he be dumped. He's inconsistent but he's a good player and proved all the doubters wrong. Penny won't get half the pub that Beckett will, but he's matured just as much since getting rocked vs the Cubs. Unreal game 1, unreal game 5. He's got sick stuff and finally learning how to use it. anyway...what can I say? This team deserved it and they got it. God bless you Marlins!

Batting in the 8spot does NOT make life harder for a hitter. 8spot hitters have worse stats solely by virtue of the fact that they sucked enough to be moved to the 8spot in the first place. Pitchers don't make things harder for them. If the guy has any eye AT ALL, he could at the very least get some walks. Hitters hit in the 8spot if they reach at everything and get beat; pitchers know this. Gonzalez is a free swinger by nature, and with the pitcher batting behind him no decent pitcher will give him anything to hit.

Now witch Urbina will show up?

Way to go Looper...nice to know you're capable of showing up once a month

I actually was intrigued by Harold Reynolds comments after the game, talking about how hitting 8th in the National League is the hardest job in baseball because you get a steady diet of breaking balls and pitches out of the zone. Alex in the 8 hole: 71-306 (.232), 10 HR, 40 RBI, 24 BB, 64 K, .300 OBP Alex everywhere else: 64-222 (.288), 8 HR, 37 RBI, 9 BB, 42 K, .316 OBP So, was Alex hitting 8th because he was in a half-year slump, or was Alex in a half-year slump because he was hitting 8th? I'm not sure we should keep him, but if we do, he's clearly not cut out to hit 8th. I mean, he is a fastball hitter, maybe we should hit him 7th. Good point...It's no coincidence that Gonzalez hit the HR with Encarnacion on deck instead of a pitcher...

With Juan going 2/3 vs Wells in NY and Lowell going 0/3...do you put Cabrera back at 3rd, Juan in RF and bench Lowell? Mike is hitting .100 this series so far......

i still want to dump him or atleast bring some competition in It probably is necessary from a financial standpoint, however there is nobody we can afford on the FA market who could challenge A-Gon for the job. Maybe it would light a fire under his butt? I don't think his struggles are related to lack of effort like they used to be...He's giving it his all on the field, but his hitting mechanics have so many holes in them he's just a disaster at the plate...he lunges at EVERY OUTSIDE breaking pick and every team knows it...he can't hit a breaking ball to save his life right now and everyone knows it. Weaver threw him a fastball inside and he turned on it and CRUSHED it to say the least. If he can tinker with his swing and not chanse every breaking ball he sees he'll be fine, but thats sometyhing that takes time and hopefully someone works with him over the offseason..until then, all we can hope for is last night builds some confidence for him and he starts to contribute, because with Lowell, Lee, Castillo and even Pudge not doing anything offensively, we sure could use some offense froma difference source.

He's never going to be a .300 hitter Correct He also will strike out a lot Ummm.... Yup. but he has the swing to hit .275-20-25 HR a year and he PROVED IT early on 6 weeks of decent hitting followed by 4 months of garbage? That is proving he can hit? He hit under .200 for the last two months of the season for God's sake! Besides, he's only hit .275 once in 6 years and he's never hit 20hr. I just don't understand why everyone still buys the arguement about his potential. Sea Bass is a career .240 hitter whose only hit over 10 HR twice in SIX YEARS. And in those six years he's only driven in more than 50 RBI's twice. What about these stats makes you think he can all of a sudden recreate himself into a decent hitter? Sea Bass is a very, very good shortstop. And I would understand a really good offensive team (like the Cards) keeping him in the lineup becuase they could afford to. But the Marlins are not an offenive juggernaught and the inability of Gonzalez to hit at all just is too much for this particular team to carry. Those 6 weeks were more than "Decent". He was one of the best hitters in the league in those first 2 months...he was hitting .340 at a point in time and basically carrying this team on his back and preventing it from dropping into even a bigger hole. Those two months prove he CAN HIT, whatever he did four years ago means nothing so bringing up career numbers is pretty irrelevant. Like Shamrock pointed out, SS Is a light hitting position and with the exception of 5-8 guys, most teams don't have a guy that can hit 18 HR and 77 RBI there. Gonzo went from being extremely good to being extremely bad...He probably isn't as good as the .340 hitter that he was in early September, but if you honestly think he's as bad as he's been showing in the postseason your hatred for him is blinding you of the obvious facts. He's struggling, just like Lowell is struggling. It happens, but last night proves what he's more than capable of. It's not potential, he alreadfy proved he could do it earlier this year, he;s just got to get his swing back over the offseason and stop lunging at every breakingball thrown to him.

The last AB shows what Gonzalez can be when he isn't reaching and poking and lunging at balls not even near the strike zone. He fouled off a couple of 3-2 pitches until he got a lame duck and crushed it. He's never going to be a .300 hitter, his eye just isn't good enough. He also will strike out a lot...but he has the swing to hit .275-20-25 HR a year and he PROVED IT early on. Would we be where we are if Gonzalez wasnt as good as he was the first half of the year? Not too sure. Anyway, We could be much worse off than we are at SS...He's been awful all postseason, but we all know he is alot better than what hes showing right now. Keep AGon, trade Lee.