Bryan

And this is the last I say on this: In 2004, Tejada played in all 162 games, making 24 errors and turning 118 DP's (an example of his arm strength).? In contrast, Jeter played 154 games, making 13 errors and turning only 96 DP's. However, according to baseball-reference.com, Jeter's range-factor was 4.32 (the league average for SS was 4.12).? Tejada, however, had a vastly superior range factor of 4.88 (which could easily account for the extra errors).? Not to mention Tejada dwarfed Jeter when it came to assists, 526 to 392. Sorry, I just don't see how Jeter deserves it so much more than Tejada. 930140[/snapback] First of all, you are putting words in my mouth AGAIN. I never said he deserves it "so much more". I said he was the most deserving based on his big plays, good fld. percentage and clutch play. Second of all, you bring up some valid points. However, Tejada has approximately double the number of errors Jeter does, when the range factor is only seperated by less than .56. So what does all that do? Bring them to about even in my eyes. The range is clearly in Tejadas favor, the putouts are in Tejadas favor. Fielding percentage is clearly in Jeters favor. These three factors even out in my eyes (due to the adjusted fielding percentage being vastly in Jeters favor) and make Tejada and Jeter equal fielders. What puts Jeter over the top is his great, clutch plays from last year. If you look at it another way, and want to put Jeter even further over the top - look at the teams records. Doesn't matter you say? Then why does it factor in MVP, Cy Young, and Fireman of the years? If you don't factor it in, fine, but it's just another selling point. Also, sometimes you need to SEE the games to really make a true judgement. I can personally guarantee Passion and I saw more Yankee and Orioles games than you did last year. Miguel Tejada is an amazing offensive force, the best offensive SS in the game, but as Passion states - there was no one in the AL last year better than Derek Jeter, as sad as that is. Now, what is so amazingly "biased" about that? I really would like to be enlightened. If you can't come up with anything, maybe next time you just need to not jump all over someone for having a differing opinion than you.

Did I put words in your mouth that "Derek Jeter is a good short-stop." Hell, I don't think the post even includes the word good, or even the words good and Derek Jeter in the same sentence.? Facts, children, facts. And since when is calling you "biased" (which you clearly are) such an egregious act of name-calling? -------- Then where am I being biased? Ask anyone with any knowledge of American league baseball and they will tell you that there were no qualified candidates last year. Everyone sucked, they just gave it to one of the guys who sucked the least and made some big plays. I understand you're angry that the NL was loaded with great candidates and your teams guy didn't get it, but the NL and AL are polar opposites when it comes to good shortstop play. What's so wrong with that? What's so biased about that? It appears you are looking for a fight, cut the crap. Exclaiming I'm biased because you have no counter-argument and can't answer my "Who deserved it more?" question is highly immature. As I said, grow up. 930099[/snapback] I'm looking for a fight? You're ridiculous. You made an outlandish claim, you still haven't defended your rather harsh insinuations about my initial reply. Since I have an opinion that differs with yours, I'm wrong in calling a Yankee fan who (admittedly) said his own guy was the beneficiary of a down year in the league biased? You still have yet to show that I put words in your mouth or did anything close to starting a fight. Sorry kid, get a clue. 930131[/snapback] You continue to ignore my questions and points and just call me names like the immature person that you are. 1.What outlandish claim did I make? That Jeter was the most deserving SS in the AL last year? Passion agrees, and what didn't you understand about my earlier posts? 2.I never said you were wrong that he isn't a GG shortstop. But did he "earn" the award last year? Under the circumstances, yes. But again, how is that being biased? Do you know what that means? 3. You put words in my mouth by claiming I said Derek Jeter is a gold glove short stop. In all technicality he is, but if he was placed in the NL he wouldn't even be in the top 6-7. He received an award and earned the award that year. Even Passion said it in the post above mine. 4. "Sorry kid, get a clue". Listen up you tough message board guy that you are, why do you continue to call me names? Really, GROW UP. Trying to combine attempted rational thought with name calling kills your credibility. You are yet to prove my point wrong, that he was the most deserving SS in the AL during that season. This is what this started over, and you continue to try to get off track so you don't look like a clown.

Did I put words in your mouth that "Derek Jeter is a good short-stop." Hell, I don't think the post even includes the word good, or even the words good and Derek Jeter in the same sentence. Facts, children, facts. And since when is calling you "biased" (which you clearly are) such an egregious act of name-calling? -------- Then where am I being biased? Ask anyone with any knowledge of American league baseball and they will tell you that there were no qualified candidates last year. Everyone sucked, they just gave it to one of the guys who sucked the least and made some big plays. I understand you're angry that the NL was loaded with great candidates and your teams guy didn't get it, but the NL and AL are polar opposites when it comes to good shortstop play. What's so wrong with that? What's so biased about that? It appears you are looking for a fight, cut the crap. Exclaiming I'm biased because you have no counter-argument and can't answer my "Who deserved it more?" question is highly immature. As I said, grow up.

I don't think Jeter deserved it last year, but whatever. 929083[/snapback] Name someone who did, the AL had a horrible crop of defensive SS last year. 929105[/snapback] Ummm...Tejada. 929847[/snapback] You are absolutely clueless if you think Miggy is a good defensive shortstop. The best offensively, not good at all defensively. 929856[/snapback] Most of those errors are because of his range, not because he's a bad short-stop. He's got a vastly superior throwing arm. You're just a biased Yankee fan. Jeter is not a gold glove deserving short-stop...he's living off that one catch that he fell into the stands after catching the ball; an overrated effort, not a gold-glove effort. 929884[/snapback] When did I ever say Derek Jeter was a good shortstop? Stop putting words in my mouth. He is average to below average. Unfortunately for the entire baseball world, last year every single shortstop in the AL was not very good at all defensively either. So they gave it to the biggest name with some of the best most notorious plays and who was also in the top 5 in fielding percentage. It was a down year for defensive American League shortstops, too bad, because its unfortunate they had to give anyone such a prestigious award when no one deserved it. But, I also notice you are so quick to start with the name calling and negative adjectives after putting words in my mouth. Grow up, child.

I don't think Jeter deserved it last year, but whatever. 929083[/snapback] Name someone who did, the AL had a horrible crop of defensive SS last year. 929105[/snapback] Ummm...Tejada. 929847[/snapback] You are absolutely clueless if you think Miggy is a good defensive shortstop. The best offensively, not good at all defensively.

I don't think Jeter deserved it last year, but whatever. 929083[/snapback] Name someone who did, the AL had a horrible crop of defensive SS last year.

Accord again jumping on Al Leiter's bad performances, and then missing all of his good ones (i.e. the past three). Odd. Honestly, get off it, this isnt news worthy. Every bad start he has are you going to make another thread? It wouldnt be a big deal if you posted about all the good ones too. But I guess that would be asking too much. 927501[/snapback] I think he hit a nerve. 927835[/snapback] Stop stealing my lines, clown.

0 ER in 9 IP :lol

Atleast the Red Sox lost tonight 927579[/snapback] This was our filler, throw away game considering who we had on the mound. Would have been a prime time for the MFY to gain some ground, guess not... :whistle 927642[/snapback] This was our filler too. Unfortunately he happens every 5th day.

Accord again jumping on Al Leiter's bad performances, and then missing all of his good ones (i.e. the past three). Odd. Honestly, get off it, this isnt news worthy. Every bad start he has are you going to make another thread? It wouldnt be a big deal if you posted about all the good ones too. But I guess that would be asking too much.

Between Giambi, A-Rod & Sheffield, the yanks are tearing it up 921615[/snapback] good thing they waited until the last month of the season to tear it up 921625[/snapback] Better to tear it up now when the pressure is on then to tear it up in april.

Giambi with 2 more homers, 4 RBIs so far in tonights game.

DTrainFan: How is saying "Giambi did well, and so did Leiter" going off topic?? There's nothing wrong with expanding the conversation a bit. 920075[/snapback] And while it may be true, I also don't appreciate the douchebag comment either. Chill it's a freaking message board. You post your thoughts here, if you don't like people posting positive things about teams other than your own - stay on the Marlins board. Al Leiter pitched well in todays game where Giambi did this, this is essentially a game thread for it. I'm not going to make a whole thread about how Al Leiter pitched great today. First of all it's not worthy, second of all I'll be burned at the stake. I think I hit a nerve. --- I don't see how Giambi won't deserve the AL Comeback Player of the Year. Whether he gets it or not is up for debate, we all remember the Hideki Matsui ROY debacle. If he is completely clean, then this is a truley amazing turnaround.

Giambi and the Five Inning Wonder were really great today. It's good to see the Yankees on a roll like this. Dare I point out Al Leiter's stats since the Marlins gave him to the Yankees?

And he comes back down to earth against the Royals today... 5 IP, 7 H, 5 ER 918001[/snapback] 4 innings of no run ball, he fell apart in the 5th - as Mike Mussina and Randy Johnson have done before him. Luckily, a 5 run 9th saves his bacon.

The Yankees gave up nothing to get him, but if this means taking Bernie Williams out of the lineup then :banghead :banghead :banghead . I guess thats the end of Tino playing first and Giambi playing DH.

Fishyguy, I shouldn't have taken this thread off-topic, point taken. But, I was not trying to be the "victim", I was just pointing out that in the end this was just going to turn into a Jaret Wright bash fest (WHICH IT WAS! See the last Al Leiter thread) because no one in their right mind is going to post positive Yankee sentiments. There is an anti-yankee bias, as there should be at a Marlins message board, but don't be naive. There IS one. Anytime I make a positive Yankee comment, I get slandered for the next 3 pages. Again, which is to be expected at an opposing teams fansite, especially a small market one. But you're right, it was unneccesary...on with the show. --- As far as Jaret Wright, he has certainly looked a lot different from early on in the season. He seems to have a lot more movement on his fastball - his two seamer that tails over the inside corner is just nasty - and has more control over all his pitches as a whole. Seeing him pre-injury, and post-injury - I really have to believe he wasn't healthy the whole year, until now.

:blink: You have some balls making a pro-yankee post on MarlinsBaseball.com. Better be wearing your fireman suit and have a fire extinguisher nearby!

The Royals broke the A's 20 game win streak a few years ago. Now the Royals break their 19 game losing streak in Oakland. :plain 909738[/snapback] :o This is turning into a Yankee/Devil Ray relationship!

Herrion and his family will be in my prayers. Rest In Peace.

The yankees just keep on getting the old pitchers who arent at the top of there game anymore. Thats why there arent as good this season. 908703[/snapback] What? The Yankees have been decimated by injuries, THATS WHY they aren't good anymore. The Yankees originally had this rotation: 1. Randy Johnson 2. Carl Pavano 3. Mike Mussina 4. Jaret Wright 5. Kevin Brown Johnson was coming off his best season, Pavano was coming off his best season, Moose is moose, Jaret Wright was coming off his best season and Kevin Brown sucked, but with 4 all-star caliber starters, who cares right? The Yankees were supposed to know that Brown, Wright, Pavs and RJ were all going to get injured? 95% of MLB fans agreed at the beginning of the year that the Yankees had, by a good margin, the best rotation in baseball. The Yankees replacements have all also gone down due to injury. Wang was the ace of the Yankee staff for a good portion of the season, and was sporting a very good 3.5 ERA when he then proceeded to go down with arm trouble. You can't expect the Yankees to protect against 5/6 of their starting pitchers getting injured. It's not the signing of scrub pitchers who are now backing up the backups, its the injuries that created the neccessity for the backups to be starters in the first place! The Yankees aren't expecting these guys to be great pitchers, they are using them as insurance policies because, the insurance policies they had, have already been cashed in. And dont get the wrong idea either, Kirk Reuter, Hideo Nomo - these guys are not going to be starting any games for the Yankees. It's just an insurance policy in case more s*** hits the fan. 200 million dollar payroll or not, no team is ever going to be able to be a great team when 5/6 of its teams starters go down with injuries.

I dont understand why they would. The Yankees already have a glut of starting pitching. 1. Mike Mussina 2. Randy Johnson 3. Sea Level Chacon (Look at his numbers as a Yankee) 4. Jaret Wright 5. Bi Gal Leiter 6. Aaron Small (Look at his numbers as a Yankee) Coming back soon... 7.Tiger Wang 8.Kevin Brown Of course, the only healthy pitcher the Yankees have had all year has been Mike Mussina, so heck, why not?

If my memory serves me right the past 3-4 years they have always played the Yankees tough. It must be a blend of having a big crowd and simply playing a team like the Yankees. The players must get up for those series like no other. 907996[/snapback] Wrong. The Yankees have historically beat the s*** out of the Devil Rays. I believe they actually won one series out of four last year, but other than that they have gotten a thorough beatdown. Not this year though, FEAR THE RAYS! GO DAMON HOLLINS! WOOO!

While the Giants do suck, calling their offensive line bad is just non-sensical. They added one of the best FA's on the market Kareem McKenzie, which moves Luke P to his normal position, so it vastly improves two spots. The Giants line was also devastated by injuries last year, devastated. Getting back Shaun O Hara and Chris Snee improves them by leaps and bounds. They should have a good line this year...their pass defense however leaves a lot to be desired. I also think the Steelers and Pats are not going to be as good as in past years. I imagine we'll see a Panthers/Jets Superbowl.

Admin was desperately trying to make me sign in. He finally succeeded. Bastard.