Cabrerafan

Thanks, Ramp. :cool

I was at the game tonight, and it was a thrilling 9th. Disappointing ending, but a wonderful comeback. It was almost too much to ask of the Marlins to win. A few observations: 1. Kim pitched a decent game. Nothing dominant, but he kept us in it. In one of his at-bats, the bat slipped out of his hands and flew into the Phillies' dugout, which got an ovation from the crowd. 2. Cabrera's single in the 1st was one of the hardest hit singles I've ever seen. 3. Uggla and Hanley killed the ball. I thought of everyone here during the rally, and got Boone's at-bat on video. I didn't get a good look at whether Hanley was safe, but Barajas and Charlie Manuel were absolutely livid about the call. I can't seem to embed this vid:

Watch the game, forget the ridiculously small sample size of 28 at bats in which numbers can be skewed with one great and or terrible afternoon. He looks better at the plate and is taking more pitches. Not to mention he has struckout just 3 times if he bombs, he bombs And a lot of people had a million excuses for Lowell's 2005. The fact that Freddi's married to the idea of Reggie at the top is nauseating. Yes, this is what's disturbing. Fredi already seems to have his mind set that Abercrombie belongs at the top, and Ramirez belongs in the middle.

Fredi is calling into Sid Rosenberg now...highlight so far, Fredi will keep Abercrombie at the 1 hole for "long term" and Hanley is a "middle of the lineup man" Foolish wording. "Long term?" Has he really seen enough of Abercrombie to make such a pronouncement? And "middle of the lineup man" Ramirez? :thumbdown

There are a few lineups I can come up with. Based on the "strengths" of the player (OBP -v- SLG, tendency to K, etc) I found that we have a few versatile players that can hit in more than one spot acceptably. Hanley - 1-3 Hermida - 1-3; 5,6 Cabrera - 3-4 Jacobs - 5-7 Willingham 2-5 Uggla 6-8 Olivo 7-8 CF P That would be my lineup, and I can understand justifying hitting the above mentioned players in any of the other spots I mentioned. I like the idea of Hanley leadoff because his OBP ability, his occasional homerun and his ability to create on the basepaths (his SB% is fantastic, so it's not just about speed). To me, that suits him and our offense better than asking him to change his game in the 3-hole. Hermida second makes a ton of sense to me. 1) He's left-handed and thus obstructs the catcher's view of 1st base, even if it only buys Hanley an extra step, that's all he needs. 2) He takes a ton of pitches. That puts the pitcher in the tough situation of maybe having to throw a fastball in a fastball count because of Hanley, and we know Hermida can hit a fastball. Plus, I like the thought of hit-and-running with Hermida a lot more than Uggla. Cabrera third to maximize his AB's. There really isn't much that needs to be said for Miggy. Jacobs 4 because I can't think of another place to put him. His SLG trails only Miggy, Hanley and Willingham, so he's somewhat suited for the 4-hole. Plus, it sandwiches a lefty. Willingham's 5 because his OBP skills may exceed his slugging in terms of player "value" and the 5-hole leads off more innings than any spot other than leadoff. Hammer's the guy for the 5-spot. Uggla's 6th so he can hit .250 with 25 HR's and no one can complain. In the 6 spot, Uggla can just swing for the fences and it won't hurt us as much as it does when he's doing it batting second. Plus, with the guys we have batting 1-5, someone should be on for Dan, so he'll get RBI chances. Olivo 7th just because I think he has slightly more value than whoever we throw in centerfield. And whoever plays centerfield 8th because I don't want to maximize their AB's. Good breakdown, Swift. The Marlins should want Cabrera getting an at-bat in every 1st inning. Also, as I have mentioned before, having Hanley bat in front of Miggy will probably make Ramirez think twice about stealing, since the opposing team will most likely intentionally walk Cabs. Hanley is taken out of his element in the 3 spot.

- Can we end the Reggie Abercrombie Leadoff Experiment tonight? He looks more comfortable in that slot. And he isn't doing a bad job at all. I say if it ain't broke, don't fix it. First game I've been to at home in a long time. That rain helped us big time. Hanley needs to use his speed more. He was watching that "double" he hit, should have been an easy triple...and that infield ground-out he probably should have beaten out, but I admit, I thought it went foul. Other than that, good showing by the team, atrocious by the fans. I swear there were more or equal Marlins fans in Tampa this weekend, and it was 1.5/1 Marlins/Phillies fans tonight. I'm so lovin' that win tonight, though, real building block game. I would love to see base running blunders go as an error. That infielder was an error on Hanley's part. He didn't run it out. Never even turned it on a little. Just kind of pulled a Miggy jog to 1B. Man, you take every jab at Miggy that you can, don't you.

I know many have been concerned that we haven't hit good pitching this season. We did it tonight when we had to.

May I also add that it's unfair, BroncoBob, to imply Cabrera isn't trying or doesn't give a hoot about his defense. Andy Fox mentioned in an article in the Sun-Sentinel that he is struck by how much both Ramirez and Cabrera, particularly because they're such great offensive players, care about their defense, and that both of them are working on it. I think people behind the scenes know better than us. http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/sfl-spm...la-sports-front

Where do you check to see the All-Star votes thus far?

I was thinking this too. Unless Cabrera loses 20+ pounds, he will probably be our future 1st baseman. With Ramirez, what are our options? Centerfield? I will give Hanley this: He's young, so he has time to develop as a defensive player. You know, Cabrera is what? Barely 24? Call me crazy, but I don't think he's peaked yet either. People forget that despite how long Cabrera has been playing the ML level and the offensive numbers he has put up, he is still in a lot of ways a kid. Hell, it has probably contributed to him being a kid. A kid who still has maturity issues in regards to training right, and a kid who still has room to grow. Tee Ball, I agree. People take Cabrera for granted, because he's been so good. He won't reach his prime for another few years. I am not blinded by the offensive #s. The #s that say Cabrera is a very good 3B and in the top 3 in the NL with the leather last year...I guess you could say those are the #s I am blinded by. Funny how when we were in the WC race he got less lazy. And when the season was ending he was less lazy. Wonder if that had anything to do with entering arbitration??? :|

I haven't seen Jones play much, but when I have, he literally falls over when he swings. He needs to shorten the swing, and try going to the opposite field more. But from what I've read, he's apparently said he's "a pull hitter."

I love Miggy's leadership. After Dukes' BS jaw-session, Miggy comes in, and essentially says you have a problem with him, you have a problem with me. Awesome stuff. He really said that? Actually, he said: Ey, juggotta probl wit heeeem jugotta probl wit meee. Actually he said "'ey, Elijah. I know how jou save money on jou phone beel. Adelante." Kidding aside. We were at the game not far from that action. I have no idea what they showed on TV, or what was actually said. But what we saw... Pitch made Duke duck (LOL just noticed that looks and sounds kinda funny), and Duke went balistic verbally (the web site says Duke stood in front of the plate and stared Matt down... not even close to being true). Ump tried to calm things but Duke just wagging his tongue. Next we noticed Miggy is in the midle of it and being warned off by the ump. All the while backing away towards 3B Miggy is pointing at Duke and complaining to the ump like saying, "Tell that SOB to leave my pitcher alone." I'm not as huge a Miggy fan as most everyone here but I loved that. Even said to the wife that it was about time someone stepped up and started throwing some kind of tantrum for the players. Although it looked like a bean ball game I just don't think any pitcher threw intentionally. Maybe, but I doubt it. A 1 run game??? Throw towards a hitter's head in the 8th because he managed a triple in the 1st and is hitting pocket change over .200? Even the "retalitory" hit batters seemed by accident IMO. The closeness of the game just dosen't make sense to get into that mind frame. And both teams were pitching inside alot. But who can say for sure. However, I did my part. When Miggy came up in the 9th I hollered out, "Hey Reyes, bet ya can't hit him!!" The kid in me wanted to see Miggy charge the mound. One thing I noticed looking at the box score. They gave that error to Mitre? I thought for sure it was going to Boone. The score board kept showing it as a hit for at least one full inning and I was complaining a bit about that until I noticed they chalked up an error on us. IMO Boone threw to where Mitre WAS instead of throwing to a spot and letting Mitre run into it. Simple mechanics gone bad IMO. I loved watching Cabrera take charge yesterday. Speaking of Cabs, he doesn't look much bigger to me than the beginning of the season. Do you guys think he put on about 10 pounds since April?

In order for Cabrera to survive defensively this season, he must lose some weight. He started off very similarly last season, lost the weight and became one of the better defensive third basemen from June through the end of the season. "One of the better defensive third basemen from June through the end of the season"???? I laughed at that til tears rolled down my cheeks. Thanks man. He became an acceptable 3B. Middle of the pack with his glove. If that high. Face the truth. If it wasn't for his bat we wouldn't even know his name. "If it wasn't for his bat we wouldn't even know his name." Well, duh. What a silly statement. We wouldn't know about Ryan Howard, Manny Ramirez, David Ortiz or Mike Piazza either. When your offensive numbers at age 23 are Hank Aaron-like in comparison, you'll never be known for your defense, unless you're gold-glove caliber every season. We agree to disagree (and I'm a girl, by the way). And I agree with Spike. Unless your "middle of the pack" description of Cabrera last season means that only a handful were better than Miguel, then you're right. But that's not what "middle of the pack" means. I don't have the stats, but from June-Sept. I believe he had the least amount of errors out of all NL 3rd basemen. His numbers defensively overall were better than David Wright's (who many consider to be a fine defensive player). Provide me stats from June-Sept. in 2006 that show me he was "middle of the pack, if that." Tommy Hutton mentioned earlier in the season (when Cabs was lighter) that many people considered Cabrera an "adequate" 3B in '06, and Hutton said he was definitely more than adequate. My point was: If he loses the weight, he'll be better defensively. I have no idea what you being a girl has to do with your opinion. But fine, we will agree to disagree on this one. And just FYI...IMO Piazza was the worst catcher in baseball with his glove. Great bat, but bottom of the pack with his defensive skills. The only catcher that I said must have been practising in the off season if I saw him throw to 2B on just one hop. Always said he should be the DH. Stats don't show the whole picture. Players will get called for an error if they show a consistent ability to make a play and then flub it. Miggy dosen't show that. Plays where other 3B will dive and make a throw to 1B for the out Miggy will just watch go on past him. Charge a ball and throw to 1B for an error (which happens more times than not with Miggy), or charge a ball and hold onto it for an infield hit. Guess which Miggy will opt for. I don't care if he is GG caliber every season. But I would like him to not be an embarrassment at playing his position. I don't take what THutt says as the gospel on everything. I like him as a person and our announcer but... I mentioned my being a girl, because you had laughed at something I said, then said, "Thanks, man." Anyway, we agree to disagree. And I don't remember Cabrera ever complaining about playing 3rd. I do remember him saying that 3rd is the position he would like to play. In 2003, he did whatever McKeon wanted him to do: left field, right field, third base... I think you missed my earlier point regarding great offensive players who couldn't play defense. I know Piazza was a horrible defensive catcher. That's why I mentioned him as well as Ortiz, Howard and Manny Ramirez after you made the ridiculous statement that "If it wasn't for his (Cabrera's) bat, we wouldn't even know his name." There are many many players you can say this about. Do you think if Cabs were a great defensive 3rd baseman, that's what he would be known for??? He'll always be known for his offense. If Miggy can be at least adequate on defense, that's fine with me. It's similar to if a player is great defensively, but just average offensively. Perfect example is Charles Johnson. Him batting .250 was fine, because his contribution to defense was just that special. What is your solution with Cabrera? Do you see him being moved to 1st in the near future? LOL I say "man" to everyone. And I didn't mean he ever complained about playing 3B. Playing the OF is what he always complained about. He almost insisted at 3B. I do stick by my statement of if not for his bat we would never know his name. If he played this kind of D and had a average bat do you think we would be seeing him? Like Lee when he was here? Potential at the plate but boy can that guy play his position. That's what Lee had here. Granted, I'm big on defense. And I think you are totally clueless when it comes to Cabreras defense. And seem to dislike him for some reason. Clueless?? Yea, right. I don't idolize a guy for his bat when his defense is sloppy at best. He sometimes plays like he dosen't even want to be on the field, just in the batters box. The reason I dislike him is because of his lackadaisical and inconsistent play. Some days he shows up, more often he just shows up to hit and waits it out in the field. You be blinded by the offensive numbers. I'll look at the overall player and want more from the hot corner with a glove. Bob, I meant OF, not 3B. Yes, he expressed his desire to play 3rd at some point, but I don't remember him complaining about it.

Even with the Marlins' success, I still don't like Hanley in the 3 spot. I think it's more of an experiment than something permanent. Three points to make about today's game: 1. Mitre had another solid game. He just may be our most consistent starter so far this season. 2. We got clutch hits from several players. 3. The bullpen continues to shine. Just went through the game logs, here's Hanley's numbers since going to the 3 spot including today's game Runner on 1st: 1-6, CS, DP, HBP Runner(s) in scoring position: 0-6, 2K, BB, R None on: 8-14, K, 2B, 2HR, 5R, 2RBI, 3SB So with runners on, anywhere, he's hitting .083. With nobody on he's hitting .571 Small sample size, but still. Hanley may try to do too much in that 3 spot. The RBIs will come, but I think he's best suited batting leadoff, unless we discover a speedy guy who can consistently reach base.

In order for Cabrera to survive defensively this season, he must lose some weight. He started off very similarly last season, lost the weight and became one of the better defensive third basemen from June through the end of the season. "One of the better defensive third basemen from June through the end of the season"???? I laughed at that til tears rolled down my cheeks. Thanks man. He became an acceptable 3B. Middle of the pack with his glove. If that high. Face the truth. If it wasn't for his bat we wouldn't even know his name. "If it wasn't for his bat we wouldn't even know his name." Well, duh. What a silly statement. We wouldn't know about Ryan Howard, Manny Ramirez, David Ortiz or Mike Piazza either. When your offensive numbers at age 23 are Hank Aaron-like in comparison, you'll never be known for your defense, unless you're gold-glove caliber every season. We agree to disagree (and I'm a girl, by the way). And I agree with Spike. Unless your "middle of the pack" description of Cabrera last season means that only a handful were better than Miguel, then you're right. But that's not what "middle of the pack" means. I don't have the stats, but from June-Sept. I believe he had the least amount of errors out of all NL 3rd basemen. His numbers defensively overall were better than David Wright's (who many consider to be a fine defensive player). Provide me stats from June-Sept. in 2006 that show me he was "middle of the pack, if that." Tommy Hutton mentioned earlier in the season (when Cabs was lighter) that many people considered Cabrera an "adequate" 3B in '06, and Hutton said he was definitely more than adequate. My point was: If he loses the weight, he'll be better defensively. I have no idea what you being a girl has to do with your opinion. But fine, we will agree to disagree on this one. And just FYI...IMO Piazza was the worst catcher in baseball with his glove. Great bat, but bottom of the pack with his defensive skills. The only catcher that I said must have been practising in the off season if I saw him throw to 2B on just one hop. Always said he should be the DH. Stats don't show the whole picture. Players will get called for an error if they show a consistent ability to make a play and then flub it. Miggy dosen't show that. Plays where other 3B will dive and make a throw to 1B for the out Miggy will just watch go on past him. Charge a ball and throw to 1B for an error (which happens more times than not with Miggy), or charge a ball and hold onto it for an infield hit. Guess which Miggy will opt for. I don't care if he is GG caliber every season. But I would like him to not be an embarrassment at playing his position. I don't take what THutt says as the gospel on everything. I like him as a person and our announcer but... I mentioned my being a girl, because you had laughed at something I said, then said, "Thanks, man." Anyway, we agree to disagree. And I don't remember Cabrera ever complaining about playing 3rd. I do remember him saying that 3rd is the position he would like to play. In 2003, he did whatever McKeon wanted him to do: left field, right field, third base... I think you missed my earlier point regarding great offensive players who couldn't play defense. I know Piazza was a horrible defensive catcher. That's why I mentioned him as well as Ortiz, Howard and Manny Ramirez after you made the ridiculous statement that "If it wasn't for his (Cabrera's) bat, we wouldn't even know his name." There are many many players you can say this about. Do you think if Cabs were a great defensive 3rd baseman, that's what he would be known for??? He'll always be known for his offense. If Miggy can be at least adequate on defense, that's fine with me. It's similar to if a player is great defensively, but just average offensively. Perfect example is Charles Johnson. Him batting .250 was fine, because his contribution to defense was just that special. What is your solution with Cabrera? Do you see him being moved to 1st in the near future?

These announcers stink. Hanley just made a great defensive stop, and they act like it was a routine play.

What the hell was that?

It's funny how four out of five posts or more ignore how incredibly bad Ramirez is defensively and he's not 30 lbs overweight. He's just plain awful. I was thinking this too. Unless Cabrera loses 20+ pounds, he will probably be our future 1st baseman. With Ramirez, what are our options? Centerfield? I will give Hanley this: He's young, so he has time to develop as a defensive player.

In order for Cabrera to survive defensively this season, he must lose some weight. He started off very similarly last season, lost the weight and became one of the better defensive third basemen from June through the end of the season. "One of the better defensive third basemen from June through the end of the season"???? I laughed at that til tears rolled down my cheeks. Thanks man. He became an acceptable 3B. Middle of the pack with his glove. If that high. Face the truth. If it wasn't for his bat we wouldn't even know his name. "If it wasn't for his bat we wouldn't even know his name." Well, duh. What a silly statement. We wouldn't know about Ryan Howard, Manny Ramirez, David Ortiz or Mike Piazza either. When your offensive numbers at age 23 are Hank Aaron-like in comparison, you'll never be known for your defense, unless you're gold-glove caliber every season. We agree to disagree (and I'm a girl, by the way). And I agree with Spike. Unless your "middle of the pack" description of Cabrera last season means that only a handful were better than Miguel, then you're right. But that's not what "middle of the pack" means. I don't have the stats, but from June-Sept. I believe he had the least amount of errors out of all NL 3rd basemen. His numbers defensively overall were better than David Wright's (who many consider to be a fine defensive player). Provide me stats from June-Sept. in 2006 that show me he was "middle of the pack, if that." Tommy Hutton mentioned earlier in the season (when Cabs was lighter) that many people considered Cabrera an "adequate" 3B in '06, and Hutton said he was definitely more than adequate. My point was: If he loses the weight, he'll be better defensively.

miggy still has the ability to be a plus 3B...if you dont want to believe that it's ok I don't agree. At his current weight he's terrible. If he loses weight he can be adequate. Last year after losing the weight he was adequate. He was better than adequate. This is a bit ironic: "The only other third baseman in the majors who has made that many (8) is Mike Lowell, the former Gold Glover for the Marlins who is off to a poor start defensively this season for the Boston Red Sox." -- Miami Herald

I can't stand bad defense. Miggy's fat ass need to earn those 7 million with more than just his bat. f***. They need to hire a guy to follow him around and make sure he doesn't eat any fritas, protect their investment. He's gotta be the heaviest third baseman in the league. He's outgrown third base and will probably be a future first baseman -- unless he loses some serious weight. And I am confident to say that if Cabrera takes 10-15 pounds off, his defense will drastically improve. It just kills me because he dazzles sometimes at 3rd, but that body is just too big for any kind of consistent play out there. Should Marlins' fans be alarmed? Absolutely. But I will say again: This is a very similar situation to what happened with Cabs last season, and he completely turned his defense around. Cabs is not fat. Antonio Alfonseca is fat. Tony Gwynn was fat. There is a difference.

In order for Cabrera to survive defensively this season, he must lose some weight. He started off very similarly last season, lost the weight and became one of the better defensive third basemen from June through the end of the season.

No television? :no

Do you think when De Aza comes back he will bat leadoff? This is what my lineup would look like De Aza Hermida Ramirez Cabrara Willingham Uggla Jacobs Olivo there's no way de aza is leading off and there's no way jake is hitting 7th I understand why Fredi moved Ramirez to the 3 spot, but I don't like it. A big part of Hanley's game is his speed, and I think it could be hindered with Cabs batting behind him. If Hanley gets on base and steals, Cabrera is intentionally walked. If Hanley is at first, the pitcher will be distracted, which is good, but it could also distract Cabrera's ABs. Now De Aza might turn out to be a great leadoff-type guy; it's just too early to tell. But for now, I'd go with something like this: Ramirez Hermida Cabrera Willingham Jacobs Uggla De Aza Olivo

Article by Hyde about Miggy's weight: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/basebal...-sports-marlins Is his weight affecting his defense? Absolutely. But the whole weight issue has come up while he was in his slump, somehow linking the two, which is silly. Last season, Cabrera lost about 10 pounds and became considerably better defensively. He'll lose the weight. The last person I worry about on this team is Miguel (Cabrera, that is.)