Willingham is catching praise

BY CLARK SPENCER

cspencer@MiamiHerald.com

Josh Willingham's approval rating climbed Saturday when manager Joe Girardi gave the catching candidate his strongest endorsement yet to take over the position on a regular basis.

 

''We believe . . . that he can catch in the big leagues every day,'' Girardi said of Willingham, who has received extra training at the position this spring -- ''Catching 101,'' as the manager put it -- so the Marlins can keep his bat in the lineup.

 

Although he stopped short of naming Willingham the team's No. 1 catcher, Girardi made it clear that Willingham has done nothing to end the experiment and move on to Plan B: shifting Willingham to left field.

 

Willingham hasn't played in the outfield this spring, and Girardi said there are no immediate plans to try him there, even though no left fielder has emerged and the position remains a large question mark with Opening Day approaching.

 

''I think they like what they see, or I would have spent some time there by now,'' Willingham said.

 

''He's still a viable everyday catching candidate, so if you're an everyday catching candidate, the chances of you playing in left field aren't real good,'' Girardi said of Willingham.

 

``If you're catching 130 games, you're usually not going to run a guy out there on his off day.''

 

Willingham is battling Miguel Olivo for the catching job, with journeyman Matt Treanor on the periphery.

 

The Marlins are satisfied with Olivo from a defensive standpoint but prefer Willingham's bat.

 

Willingham, starting Saturday after sitting out the better part of a week because of back spasms that continue to bother him, stroked an RBI single against the New York Yankees.

 

''It's nothing but a little stiffness, nothing major,'' Willingham said.

 

Girardi said he plans to put Willingham in the starting lineup today when the Marlins play the New York Mets.

 

''As far as I'm concerned, I'm a catcher right now,'' Willingham said. ``I am confident in myself to be able to do it every day. I think the skills were there, but we just weren't able to bring them out [before], and they're bringing them out with what they're teaching me and telling me.''

 

Willingham said he thinks he has improved in most areas: ``I'm receiving the ball better, fine-tuning my throwing, and my blocking's better.''

 

Said Girardi: ``He's made a ton of progress.''

 

The Marlins are talking with other teams about acquiring an outfielder, with only right fielder Jeremy Hermida having secured a spot.

 

Seems like Willingham is going to be the everyday catcher, so only the holes in left/centre to fill.

 

Link - Miami Herald

yep, hes been doing great at the catching position.

Great for Willy...I just hope our young pitching doesn't suffer through his growing pains. I had a feeling there wasn't a doubt in Girardi's mind he was gonna make a major league catcher out of Willingham. He did everything short of bringing in Bench, Fisk and Carter to work with him

 

I also am suspicious that when he was MIA he was at the training complex working triple time on the nuances of the catching position...I am just concern that his bat is gonna suffer from the wear and tear that comes from the daily grind and physical beating a catcher undergoes

 

Now the question is are we gonna carry 3 catchers or is Treanor going to triple A? I feel Oliva has done enough to make the roster

My only concern is that everything could be a fluke, but I am starting to trust in Willy a bit more even though I was not a big fan of his last year or even before. However, if he can really bat I can only sallivate over how the line up would then look.

 

Ramirez

Uggla/Andino

Hermida

Cabs

Jacobs

Willy

Aguila/Stokes/Helms

Abercrombie

--

 

That's not too bad. If these guys can contribute decently we might be looking at a not so bad season ahead of us.

Great news. If the Fish can then acquire another OF, as this piece has them rumored to be attempting, the lineup could be pretty solid.

Ramirez

Uggla/Andino

Hermida

Cabs

Jacobs

Willy

Aguila/Stokes/Helms

Abercrombie

--

 

:tissue

At this moment forget Gathright, lets get the outfielder with the highest upside, doesn't matter if he is a CF or corner OF? I can actually live with an Abercrombie/Reed platoon if we can get a CF like Taveras it would gives a lead-off hitter as well and Abercrombie would be fine in LF. If Stokes can play a decent outfield it would be nice to get his bat in the lineup as well

At this moment forget Gathright, lets get the outfielder with the highest upside, doesn't matter if he is a CF or corner OF? I can actually live with an Abercrombie/Reed platoon if we can get a CF like Taveras it would gives a lead-off hitter as well and Abercrombie would be fine in LF. If Stokes can play a decent outfield it would be nice to get his bat in the lineup as well

 

Willingham still needs to prove it at the MLB level. Let's see how he reacts when he routinely has to deal with Reyes, Beltran, Wright, Rollins, Abreu, Utley, M. Giles, Renteria, Francoer, and Soriano on the base paths. That's just the NL East, and those guys all have the ability to steal 20+ if not way more. Plus, trying to block all the junk Bowyer and Messenger throw at him out of the pen. He's still a work in progress, it's to early to be saying he is going to be a long term option at catcher and start trading high ceiling pitching for a young corner OF.

 

What we do know is, we have no viable CF in the entire organization. Abercrombie and Reed are not going to hit for much. Aguila is a stopgap at best, is a 4th or 5th OF type. Whose next best? De Aza? Jai Miller? Right. We actually have some potential corner OF prospects in Harvey, Restko, maybe McCann can play out there also, that might be ready in 1-2 years. Plus you can always find cheap veterans if you have to. 2B is a concern too, but we have a potential nice option in Andino if he works on his contact/plate discipline a little and accepts the position change. In CF, nothing. It's the biggest weakness in the short and long term, and it has to be addressed out of house. CF is the position you trade for if you do it at all.

MarlinsLou, you have been one of the biggest supporters of getting Gathright at the rays board. What would he really add? Worse defense than Reed and possibly Abercrombie, and he is strictly a singles hitter. And thats when hes hit, which he hasnt done much of at the MLB level.

 

I am not sure if that post was you advocating trading for Gathright, but we are better with what we got.

At this moment forget Gathright, lets get the outfielder with the highest upside, doesn't matter if he is a CF or corner OF? I can actually live with an Abercrombie/Reed platoon if we can get a CF like Taveras it would gives a lead-off hitter as well and Abercrombie would be fine in LF. If Stokes can play a decent outfield it would be nice to get his bat in the lineup as well

 

Willingham still needs to prove it at the MLB level. Let's see how he reacts when he routinely has to deal with Reyes, Beltran, Wright, Rollins, Abreu, Utley, M. Giles, Renteria, Francoer, and Soriano on the base paths. That's just the NL East, and those guys all have the ability to steal 20+ if not way more. Plus, trying to block all the junk Bowyer and Messenger throw at him out of the pen. He's still a work in progress, it's to early to be saying he is going to be a long term option at catcher and start trading high ceiling pitching for a young corner OF.

 

What we do know is, we have no viable CF in the entire organization. Abercrombie and Reed are not going to hit for much. Aguila is a stopgap at best, is a 4th or 5th OF type. Whose next best? De Aza? Jai Miller? Right. We actually have some potential corner OF prospects in Harvey, Restko, maybe McCann can play out there also, that might be ready in 1-2 years. Plus you can always find cheap veterans if you have to. 2B is a concern too, but we have a potential nice option in Andino if he works on his contact/plate discipline a little and accepts the position change. In CF, nothing. It's the biggest weakness in the short and long term, and it has to be addressed out of house. CF is the position you trade for if you do it at all.

while im not terribly confident abercrombie cuts down on the strikeouts, i believe reed is winning the job because his speed provides alot of problems for the defense...he just needs to keep the ball down and strike out a little less

MarlinsLou, you have been one of the biggest supporters of getting Gathright at the rays board. What would he really add? Worse defense than Reed and possibly Abercrombie, and he is strictly a singles hitter. And thats when hes hit, which he hasnt done much of at the MLB level.

 

I am not sure if that post was you advocating trading for Gathright, but we are better with what we got.

 

Gathright's extra base hits by level. Notice an emerging pattern

 

A/AA 2003 - 425 AB, 10 extra base hits, .334 combined average

AA/AAA 2004 - 414 AB, 16 extra base hits, .321 combined average

AAA/MLB 2005 - 429 AB, 26 extra base hits, .291 combined average

Strickly MLB 2005 - 203 AB, 10 extra base hits, .276 average

 

Let's put this into context too. Not only is he hitting more extra base hits, he is doing it with a lower average each year, meaning less opportunities. This is very significant and shows a tremendous growth of gap power. As he adjusts to MLB pitching more and brings the average up 10-20 points - all indications from his minor league track record suggest this - he's got the potential to grow into a consistent 40+ extra base hit player. That isn't strictly a singles hitter. He'll probably be the best pure speedster in baseball in this regard. Given Gathright's 2005 rate of extra base hits in 667 AB (Pierre's average last three season), Gathright hits 42 extra base hits in 2005. Given his 2005 MLB rate, 33 extra base hits. This is as a 24 year old, whose going to get better.

 

Pierre Extra base hits by year

2003 - 36

2004 - 37

2005 - 34

 

Taveras 2003 A - 17 in 397 AB

Taveras 2004 AA - 16 exrta base hits in 410 AB

Taveras 2005 - 20 extra base hits in 592 AB

 

Pierre is constant. He did hit for less average in 05 then the previous two season, but I think it's safe to say Pierre is who he is at this point and is a yearly 35-40 extra base threat. Taveras shows no growth in this regard, and coupled with the worst OBP potential of three and the worst speed of the three, he is easily the least intimidating offensive threat. He's a surefire 7 hole hitter, not a top of the order presence like the other two. Now Gathright shows growth. It looks like he has better general power of the group, where I do not think it's outrageous to say that Joey will out extra base hits those two every year. All three players bring something slightly different to the park, but this is Gathright's advantage - superior slugging and SB % numbers. Pierre has 25 OBP points on both of them every year (except 2005) due to superior contact numbers, and Taveras has a substantial defensive advantage over both of them.

 

Overall as a player, if Gathright can emerge into a guy that hits .290 and draws 45+ walks a year (39 in 468 plate apperances 2005, only 10 in 213 MLB though), he will be an excellent leadoff hitter. I think he's got a shot at .300/.350/.400 for his ceiling and .285/.335/.380 as a more moderate projection, 55/20 SB, and league average defense. He will never get to Reed's defensive level, but he won't be that far behind Aguila or Abercrombie, and probably better then Pierre to an extent. Gathright would be a tremendous addition to CF now and for the long term. Aguila, Reed, and Abeercrombie are way lower then him. That should not be under question. The kid is a player. He's not a superstar, but for the right team he could be a perfect fit. Marlins have no viable CF option, need another top of the order presence to put with Hanley, have the perfect OF dimensions to utilize his defensive range versus arm strength, and he doesn't hit arbitration, let alone free agency, for a few years. A lot of people like dismissing Gathright as a bum player/prospect on this board, and that is just a completely ignorant statement because if he was a Marlins home grown prospect, we'd all be excited as hell to see him and Hanley 1-2. I'm guessing the love for Olsen has brought severe nitpicking of Gathright to the forefront of conversation to the extent everyone is convinced he is awful.

 

The only question should be, Scott Olsen might be really good. I would love to get Gathright in any shape or form, but at the same time, it's hard to trade a potential # 2 lefty starter when your rotation is not set. That's why if tampa will take Johnson, Nolasco, or any pitcher not named Vargas/Petit/Olsen/Anibal, you run to take that deal, even if you are giving up a pitcher that could top out a little higher then Gathright. Still have better prospects with those 4, and probably Volstad, Thompson, West, etc in a year or two.

two CF's to watch are Choo Freeman and Jorge Piedra on the Rockies they are both out of options and the rockies outfielders are Holliday, Hawpe, Sullivan, Shealy so one of them maybe both (?) might have to be waived.

The thing MarlinsLou is none of those XBH totals in context with # of ABs is impressive, in fact its anything but, espicially for the speed this guy has.

At this moment forget Gathright, lets get the outfielder with the highest upside, doesn't matter if he is a CF or corner OF? I can actually live with an Abercrombie/Reed platoon if we can get a CF like Taveras it would gives a lead-off hitter as well and Abercrombie would be fine in LF. If Stokes can play a decent outfield it would be nice to get his bat in the lineup as well

 

Willingham still needs to prove it at the MLB level. Let's see how he reacts when he routinely has to deal with Reyes, Beltran, Wright, Rollins, Abreu, Utley, M. Giles, Renteria, Francoer, and Soriano on the base paths. That's just the NL East, and those guys all have the ability to steal 20+ if not way more. Plus, trying to block all the junk Bowyer and Messenger throw at him out of the pen. He's still a work in progress, it's to early to be saying he is going to be a long term option at catcher and start trading high ceiling pitching for a young corner OF.

 

What we do know is, we have no viable CF in the entire organization. Abercrombie and Reed are not going to hit for much. Aguila is a stopgap at best, is a 4th or 5th OF type. Whose next best? De Aza? Jai Miller? Right. We actually have some potential corner OF prospects in Harvey, Restko, maybe McCann can play out there also, that might be ready in 1-2 years. Plus you can always find cheap veterans if you have to. 2B is a concern too, but we have a potential nice option in Andino if he works on his contact/plate discipline a little and accepts the position change. In CF, nothing. It's the biggest weakness in the short and long term, and it has to be addressed out of house. CF is the position you trade for if you do it at all.

 

You talk about about how we shouldn't trade pitching or "high ceiling pitching" for a corner OF because nobody sure Josh Williangham can handle being a catcher at the major league level. Well you do know if we trade "high ceiling pitching" we should and will most likely get someone better than Williangham right? Which means Williangham either then is a reserved or gets traded to a team like the A's who will appreciate him more than us.

 

How do know Reed and Abercrombie are not going to hit for much? (I don't think they will) and that Gathright is going to hit? what is Gathright much better than Reed and Abercrombie at? what are Abercrombie and Reed much better than Reed at? Don't you think there cheap CF options out there in during free agency juts like they are corner Of?

 

It amazes me how much you like Gathright. I don't know what you mean by "high ceiling pitching" because at one time you where ready to give up Scott Olsen who is in my top 10 in terms of ceiling out there in the minors. There was a time I believe when you said he wasn't a top 50 prospect and guys like Jeremy Sowers are much better than him. What to you is high ceiling?

Why o why does anyone care whether Gathwright gets an extra base hit from the leadoff spot. This guy is a force to be reckoned with, he can get a single, wreak havoc on the pitchers head, steal second, or allow the number two hole hitter to get on because the pitcher is concerned about Gathwright. That's as good or better than a double anyway. If this guy was needed to hit in our number three spot then we would have issues, but most people here seem to forget what a leadoff hitter's job is. People get too obsessed with slugging when at times the ability to get hits and get onbase at the top of the order is extremely valuable.

He can get singles...when he actually hits. Which he has not shown he can do consistently at the MLB level. Plus, he's bad defensivley in CF. We can do better with what we already have.

 

He also has no work ethic and makes no attempt to improve.

The thing MarlinsLou is none of those XBH totals in context with # of ABs is impressive, in fact its anything but, espicially for the speed this guy has.

 

I never said the were mind blowing, it's not a pure singles hitter though. And this is the reason, as you correctly identify, why a potential # 2 starter when we have Willis and a lot of question marks is probably not worth Gathright. He'd be a tremendous addition to the team, but we have other areas we need to fix as well. That's why it's only a good trade if you don't give up one of those top tier SP prospects.

He can get singles...when he actually hits. Which he has not shown he can do consistently at the MLB level. Plus, he's bad defensivley in CF. We can do better with what we already have.

 

He also has no work ethic and makes no attempt to improve.

 

 

I've never seen anything that says he has a bad work ethic, not saying you aren't right I just haven't read that. Either way, Gathwright hasn't proven he can hit at the ML level over a full season, but he did have as high of an average as Pierre and his minor league track record is pretty good. This guy was the talk of TB sports radio when he was a starter at the beggining of the year, and was only sent down because Alex Sanchez had been suspended.

Marlins in talks with Rays for Gathright, for Olsen? (merged)

MarlinsLou Posted on: Dec 13 2005, 10:19 PM

 

I'm new, just found this board existed, but I'll chime in.

 

I trade JJ or Olsen for Gathright without any hesitation, and demand Green or Colome as throw in's. Both are useful, will help the marlins over the next 3-4 years, and TB wouldn't let them hold up a deal for any sort of SP. You do this because as what someone said before, you want this team to grow. 20+ P with potential in the minors, and nothing, absolutely nothing, in the farm system with position players. This team doesn't grow with Aguila, Reed, and Abercrombie playing in LF/CF. This team has ZERO options, except trade and free agency to get better in the OF and at 2B. Something has to change. You can have all the SP depth in the world in the minors, none of it is guarenteed to pan out.

 

JJ would be the obvious choice. He is clearly at the bottom of the "first tier" level of Marlins prospects that are double AA and up and TB could insert directly into the rotation. Olsen is a nice pitcher with a fine upside also, but he also has question marks. His stats I can't argue with, they are awesome. But for me longterm after seeing him pitch, he is a two pitch pitcher. He can locate the fastball, but does not have well developed breaking pitches. I'm fine if you believe he will develop a change, or a wicked cutter, since he is so young and can mature as a player, but at the MLB level, I see him getting overexposed. Much like Heilmann, and how NYM are FINALLY getting smart and going to let him turn into the Ace RP he is. You can get away with this stuff in double AA like Olsen has, not necessarily in the bigs. Maybe I'm wrong, this is just how I see it. I disagree completely with the Mulder and Finley comparisons I have seen around the web for him. He is a different pitcher then them. I think the only untouchable pitchers are Vargas, Anibal, Petit, Volstad, Bowyer, Tyler, and maybe Gaby, in discussions to bring in another player. They have to bring in an OF.

 

Also don't get me wrong, I dont want to trade just because I have tradelust, I think losing JJ or Olsen would suck. I would love for the Marlins to keep both of them because I think both have a great shot at being strong contributers, and for Admin to have been smart and got Milledge, or found some way to pry Pie, or even Murton, from the Cubs, but this is what we have to work with. A very nice 3-4 player position core, insane young P depth, and nothing in half the field. They need to get young complimentary players to fill out the roster. If they break camp with Aguila, Reed/Abercrombie, and Josh Wilson as three starters.... talk about ridiculous. That's not even a good triple AAA bottom 3 of the order, and there are no prospects a year away to even threaten their playing time. Also, Gathright has a bad rap. To say first, I do not think he will ever be a world beater, but I think he will be an above average MLB. He has consistently produced a .380-.410 OBP in the minors, averages a walk per 10 AB which is solid (even if the K's are high), he has 50 SB potential, is cheap, and fills a GLARING GLARING position of need for the Marlins. Both in 06, and longterm. He is exactly the OBP threat this team needs on top of the order to groom as a leadoff hitter. Hanley isn't the answer there, and what, Willingham is the best guy for the job right now? I can see Gathright growing into a .350-.360 OBP guy, with tons of steals, emerging double/gap power (he is not a slap and run hitter), and reasonable defense. Same problems with D w/ Pierre. Tons of range, bad jumps sometimes, average to below average arm. Overall, that is a pretty good baseball player, and even if JJ or Olsen pan out into a better player, you still have something pretty nice in value and you still have the other 19 or whatever P prospects with potential in the minors. Sometimes you have to suck it up and give up the slightly better player, to bring in a position of NEED. Especially if you get one of those thrown-in's above who also help you. It's not a bad trade by any stretch of the imagination. Rival GM's aren't going to settle for Nolasco or Tankersly. JJ or Olsen gets you Gathright. I say DO IT. Feel free to start yelling. This is just how I see it. They need Gathright a lot more then they need two entire pitching staffs of 20-22 year olds.

 

 

 

Your problem is you look at prospect lists, and listen to ancillary evidence from scouts in judging guys. He doesnt have the right body type. He doesnt have the huge gun number. Please, I want pitchers who get outs. Olsen isn't one of the top 5 pitchers on the Marlins at getting outs, let alone among baseball prospects. McCarthy? Verlander? Sowers? Hughes? Zumaya? Papelbon? Lester? Liriano? That's just off the top of my head. No way top 5 in baseball among pitchers or top 50 overall, he might barely be a top 5 lefty. I think Olsen has more question marks then Petit and Anibal who you cite. Petit just kills everyone. I'm glad scouts "question" his stuff. All he does is allow a sub 1.00 whip and over 11 K/9. That's retarded good. He has a funky motion also that "scouts" don't like.... sounds a lot like some double aa kid named Dontrelle who scouts questioned relentlessly, and Petit whiffs A LOT more then him. Petit is the best we got. Much better prospect then olsen. Anibal is back from inury and fine. Pitchers get stronger after Tommy J surgeries typically. Andrews track record is pretty phenomenal. There are 30 success stories, and then poor Spooney happens. If it worries you though, so be it. His stuff smokes Olsen and until he gets seriously injured again, I don't see a trend or pattern of injury proneness. If this is a biased approach with Anibal, I'm sorry. Gaby is 19 and needs work on a curveball. If he is still having that problem at 21, like Olsen is with his slider, change, and cutter, I will surely knock Gaby just as I do Olsen saying he projects into this awesome RP and not a SP. But I give all prospects the benefit of the doubt until they start getting to year 4 and 21/22. You can see guys emerging at that point and really project them with 350+ innings and not just 100+. Olsen is just not the prospect people are making him out to be. He is REALLY good, but not an elite one. Petit, Anibal, Gaby, and Dontrelle/Vargas in the minors, all of them out WHIP'd Olsen, have higher or relative K/9 (except Willis, his was lower), and K/BB, were the same age or younger at similar levels of competition, and did better then him at those levels. If it isn't obvious, I have a very sabermetric approach. I always clash with "scout" people.

 

long-term plans, meaning 2008. Willis, Petit, Anibal, Vargas, and the best of Johnson, Nolasco, Pinto, and Gaby, if he's ready, in the rotation. Bullpen, Resop, Bowyer, Tankersly, the three of those not in the rotation, and whoever as the 7th man. Get Gathright for Olsen, lineup him, Hanley, Mida, Cab, Jacobs, then see if Willingham can play at C, or LF, and get free agents to fill the last two positions of C/LF or 2B. Fill out the bench with cheap vet types like Easley, because they aint getting any kids because this team has zilch with position players pretty much. That is a pretty good team if everyone turns out how we all believe, and you still have money for whatever holes because only Willis, Cabrera, and Vargas will be in arbitration among regulars besides potentially C/LF and 2B. Also have what I call "wave three" of SP is almost ready to rock with Volstad, West , and Thompson so you have nice tradebait with them, or with any of the other pictures they can sub in and out. And if you are able to keep Olsen, and move Johnson (which is ideal but I doubt it will happen), or whoever for Gathright, Olsen is closing on my team, and just insert whichever of the other 3 SP as the 5th. Either way, I'm really happy with that team. And I think you are two.

 

What I do agree with you though, is if baseball values Olsen so highly, I have no problem going to arizona to get young. But I doubt they would trade him now just acquiring. That's the pont, where are they getting a young CF or a young 2B that can leadoff? It's not free agency or home grown. Gathright is a perfect opportunity for them. He is not a scrub. Every scout prior to this season said he would be challenged in triple AAA because he is a light hitter, and pitchers could overpower him and he'd lose his walking prowess and still have no power. What did he do? Produce the highest percentage of extra base hits in his minor league career, and a walk every 7.8 AB. I disagree that Pierre was a liability.... he was awesome for us in 03 and 04. He disrupted the rythm of pitchers, got on base great, and his one offense knock, SB % in those years, Gathright is better at. They need speed in CF for this ballpark, even if he doesn't have the best arm. CF is so deep, it would take Andruw, Kotsay, or Edmonds to effectively cover and throw in that space. I think everyone here underrates Joey, and sees Olsen in a different light then these new pitchers because he has been here longer and we hate to give up the kids we bring up.

 

And you misunderstood Hanley completely. It's not that Gathright is better then Hanley, no. It's that he is more important right now in short term rebuilding, as in the Marlins will have two of the worst three starting OF in baseball if Aguila and Reed start. They have to get some production out of these positions. They have to get a leadoff hitter. Gathright does this and lets the offense grow by letting the 3-4-5 bats hit with more runners on right now, in the future because Joey is going to be pretty good, and not having to throw Hanley into a pressure 1 or 2 batting situation right now, when he clearly needs more seasoning. He is going to be awesome, or atleast I think so, but he isn't ready for big time contributions yet.

 

They will easily lose 100+ games if Wilson/Almezaga/Uggla, Aguila, and Reed get 500 AB each. That will be 4 .300ish OBP hitters in the lineup w/ the pitcher, maybe even 5 because I am not convinced Hanley is ready. I really wish he could play half the year in double and triple aaa and be an August callup. Mitre and Moehler are going to pitch atleast 300 innings... The bullpen, is going to be an absolute nightmare. Losing is one thing, being atrocious is another. Like I said before, they can't send out the kids to get murdered. They need a young leadoff bat, Gathright is perfect. They need to sign a Davanon or Terrance Long type LF to provide atleast a lick of offense, or more then Aguila (he is awful), and I'd like to see some sort of vet middle infielder to platoon with Hanley, and the cluster at 2B. Some RP would be nice also..... but all these guys will have to be near-minimum. Have to see who wants playing time on a bad team, versus sitting on the bench for a good team.

It amazes me how much you like Gathright. I don't know what you mean by "high ceiling pitching" because at one time you where ready to give up Scott Olsen who is in my top 10 in terms of ceiling out there in the minors. There was a time I believe when you said he wasn't a top 50 prospect and guys like Jeremy Sowers are much better than him. What to you is high ceiling?

 

I'm not going to even explain why Gathright is much better then Reed or Abercrombie. And I would trade Olsen for Sowers straight up any day of the week. High ceiling is more then Chris Young, which is who I think Johnson turns into in his best case scenario. That's a good pitcher, but not someone you build around.

 

Why o why does anyone care whether Gathwright gets an extra base hit from the leadoff spot. This guy is a force to be reckoned with, he can get a single, wreak havoc on the pitchers head, steal second, or allow the number two hole hitter to get on because the pitcher is concerned about Gathwright. That's as good or better than a double anyway. If this guy was needed to hit in our number three spot then we would have issues, but most people here seem to forget what a leadoff hitter's job is. People get too obsessed with slugging when at times the ability to get hits and get onbase at the top of the order is extremely valuable.

 

Power is always important. If he can get to 2B or 3B without stealing, that's great. That's the whole point with leadoff hitters. What your missing is, Gathright does not have .360+ OBP potential like this other top leadoff hitters. It's going to fall in the .330-.345 range, which is league average. If you aren't getting on base as much as a guy like Pierre (non 2005 version), you better be making up for it with more more extra base hits a seaosn, and 10 more cumalitive SB/not getting CS. Gathright does that. You have to look at more then basepath disruption when judging a player. Reed could swipe 40 SB and cause havok on the base paths, but that does not mean he's good when he has a .280 OBP.

 

He can get singles...when he actually hits. Which he has not shown he can do consistently at the MLB level. Plus, he's bad defensivley in CF. We can do better with what we already have.

 

He also has no work ethic and makes no attempt to improve.

 

He is not as "bad" as perceived defensively, and I think most Devil Rays fans would seriously attack you at believing his work ethic. He isn't a misfit. We can do better with what we have? You would be crazy to take Reed, Abercrombie, Aguila, or any CF prospect in the Marlins organization over Gathright.

 

My3username, my opinion can't change? And throwing in another player isn't 1-1, which is being argued. The fact that I now see middling reports of Anibal being viewed as a future closer because of his mechanics doesn't change the outlook of wanting to keep Olsen, or other top end SP prospect? What are you trying to prove by attempting to call me out, that you are a jerk?

Devil Rays fans said themselves that he takes plays off, exerts little effort in the OF, and has made no attempt to improve at the plate.

 

That is a bad work ethic.

Why is anyone still wasting time trying to explain something to the lowest IQ poster on the boards?

why does no one this board have any confidence in reed, i think the kid is gonna be like juan pierre except he doesnt throw like a 5 year old girl with forest gump style leg braces on...Reed is showing he has some game, and getting on base pretty well so far...he needs to learn how to slap the ball around a bit, but his speed will cause alot of errors and nervous pitchers when they are pitchin to hermida and cabs...gathright isnt worth olsen, or really worth any of our young starting pitching...i say...lets give the kids a chance to see what they can do during the first half of the season and judge where we are by the trading deadline, if we can dump some pitching to help other areas, then fine, but lets not make any rash trades

Um Shamrock me and MarlinsLou were actually in agreement for the most part. Reading comprehension pal.

 

And, as stated, Gathright by most accounts is below average defensively, with an even weaker arm than Pierre. Thats where Reed comes in, as he is superior defensively.

 

Abercrombie is having greater success at the plate than Gathright this spring, wether it is a fluke or not I dont know. But still better.

 

And I have read what D-Rays fans have said about Gathright, and I was merely relaying it to you.

 

Some would aruge that Nolasco is the highest to go for Gathright. I think he's shown this spring that he isnt.

 

And if you wondering, since I am the one with the "low IQ"(which is a stupid statement in itself), Gathright has shown nothing at the MLB level that would make trading for him an upgrade now or in the future. He has speed...great. That is, though, all he has going for him.

why does no one this board have any confidence in reed, i think the kid is gonna be like juan pierre except he doesnt throw like a 5 year old girl with forest gump style leg braces on...Reed is showing he has some game, and getting on base pretty well so far...he needs to learn how to slap the ball around a bit, but his speed will cause alot of errors and nervous pitchers when they are pitchin to hermida and cabs...gathright isnt worth olsen, or really worth any of our young starting pitching...i say...lets give the kids a chance to see what they can do during the first half of the season and judge where we are by the trading deadline, if we can dump some pitching to help other areas, then fine, but lets not make any rash trades

 

I don't think that Johnson or Nolasco is a rash decision for him, I think that is fair, but I agree 100% otherwise. I see them all getting a lot of MLB AB with or without another CF/OF in the mix.