April 23, 200620 yr It's still very early to judge the value of each trade but.....it's never too early to judge the value of each trade!!
April 23, 200620 yr how can the delgado one be the best? we are paying him to play against us and jacobs is feast or famine and it is usually famine.
April 23, 200620 yr Best - Juan Pierre to the Cubs Worst - Luis Castillo to the Twins. We received little value in return for a Gold Glover.
April 23, 200620 yr So far, Best: JP Worst: Beckett (considering Lowell's got numbers that suggest he's hitting and Beckett is the best thing going). Really, we only "won" two trades and those were the Pierre one and the LoDuca one, we unquestionably lost the Castillo one and at best broke even with Beckett so long as Lowell keeps sucking. Until Lowell starts sucking again, I think we lost that one big time.
April 23, 200620 yr So far, Best: JP Worst: Beckett yeap ... I dont care what kind of numbers Lowell puts up or whatever ... Beckett is just the icing on the cake for pitchers and we lost out on him (blisters or not)
April 23, 200620 yr Really, we only "won" two trades and those were the Pierre one and the LoDuca one, we unquestionably lost the Castillo one and at best broke even with Beckett so long as Lowell keeps sucking. Until Lowell starts sucking again, I think we lost that one big time. It will take many years to decide who won the deal, but at the time, both the Beckett and Pierre deals were everything the club wanted and more. I think we lost a bit of leverage in the LoDuca and Delgado deals that prevented us from getting a lot, but the deals were still decent. Unfortunetly Bowyer's looking to be a bust.
April 23, 200620 yr Really, we only "won" two trades and those were the Pierre one and the LoDuca one, we unquestionably lost the Castillo one and at best broke even with Beckett so long as Lowell keeps sucking. Until Lowell starts sucking again, I think we lost that one big time. It will take many years to decide who won the deal, but at the time, both the Beckett and Pierre deals were everything the club wanted and more. I think we lost a bit of leverage in the LoDuca and Delgado deals that prevented us from getting a lot, but the deals were still decent. Unfortunetly Bowyer's looking to be a bust. If he becomes healthy, he won't be a bust. Let's hope he recovers.
April 23, 200620 yr Unfortunetly Bowyer's looking to be a bust. I guess I could have copied your whole post but I really just wanted to comment on this part. You make the correct argument that it will take awhile to see how these trades play out, many years, so I'm surprised you've already written off Bowyer. Yes, he isn't pitching with any affiliate yet, having be diagnosed with a "tired shoulder", I wouldn't be so quick to write him off. Aside from his last appearance (against the Royals of all team, which skewed his 2005 September 2005 performance stats) he was phenomal in all but that appearance. Until we hear a diagnosis which is says otherwise, my guess is he worked too hard in the off-season hoping to make the team and perhaps the closer's spot, and hid his malady in spring training from the coaches and is lucky he's not done more damage to himself. Obviously rest is what the doctor ordered (literally) and I for one am willing to see what a healthy Travis Bowyer can do before calling him a bust. If you saw the MLB video of what he did last September with the Twins and checked out his gamelog, the guy was near unhittable. Without going back and checking, if I remember correctly, in eight of nine apearances, he had something like a 1.50 ERA and that included a solo run in his first gameand none thereafter, until he got lit up like a christmas tree in the last game against Kansas City. He's young, he's got 100 mph stuff. Time is on his side.
April 23, 200620 yr Best: JP Worst: Luis Even if Bowyer does turn it around, getting pretty much only a reliever prospect for one of the best leadoff hitters in the league is not good enough.
April 23, 200620 yr 2003, with all due respect, I don't think you know exactly what you're saying. Shoulder issues, especially generic untreatable conditions, for any pitcher at any age are alarming. The fact that Bowyer's a reliever amplifies the concern because rehab is exponentially more difficult for relievers to come back from injury than rotation pitchers...just ask Tim Spooneybarger. Secondly, Bowyer isn't exactly a spring chicken by baseball standards. He's 25, has 8 games at the big league level under his belt and got lit up like a Christmas tree...his ERA and WHIP read like zip codes. I know it was the result of "one bad outing" but it still happened. Since you like to take close looks at box scores, try this on for size; the only game Bowyer pitched in with the game still very much in doubt was that schlacking at the hands of the Royals, before that his stat line is this: 2 innings in a 12-4 drubbing, allowing an earned run. 1 inning in a 9-3 blowout 1 inning in a 7-6 loss in which he pitched with the score 7-1 2 innings in an 8-3 blowout 1.1 innings in an 8-1 loss And then, 1 inning in a 10-6 loss, allowing 5 earned runs. His only decision of the season, a blown save and a loss. He was never credited a hold last season according to ESPN.com and the only time he pitched in a one run game, he blew it. At his age, with his stuff, he should be in the major leagues, especially being in a budget conscious organization like the Twins, he certainly gives big bang for the buck. I'm not at the stage to call him a bust yet, but it sure doesn't look good for him. What I saw in the spring from him in person was underwhelming, and his stat lines sure don't glisten like you'd like the centerpiece of a gold-glove second baseman trade to.
April 23, 200620 yr I can't claim to have know anything about Bowyer before the trade (one reaso why many here did not lke the deal), but what I've dicovered since then, I don't think a guy in his mid-20s with little but a flat high-90s fastball has much chance for success at the MLB level.
April 23, 200620 yr ok he was put in a high pressure situation for the first time in his career Mariano Rivera had a 5.51 ERA in his first season with the Yanks at 25 you cant judge relievers in the same way you judge other pitchers because of smaller sample size.
April 23, 200620 yr Wasn't Spooney an elbow not a shoulder? And there's been no diagnosis published I know of any strutural damage so yeah, you can call me an optimist. I don't know if they're still there but this winter all of his appearances save one were on video at the Twins website and he looked terrific. Perhaps they are still there. What you ignored in a partial listing of his gamelog was with the exception of his first and last appearances, he didn't give up a run. He has no control how he's used, that's up to the manager, and you know that. The kid came in, threw 98-99-100mph past guys and did his job.
April 23, 200620 yr Wasn't Spooney an elbow not a shoulder? And there's been no diagnosis published I know of any strutural damage so yeah, you can call me an optimist. I don't know if they're still there but this winter all of his appearances save one were on video at the Twins website and he looked terrific. Perhaps they are still there. What you ignored in a partial listing of his gamelog was with the exception of his first and last appearances, he didn't give up a run. He has no control how he's used, that's up to the manager, and you know that. The kid came in, threw 98-99-100mph past guys and did his job. You're correct that he has no control, initially, over the role he's used. But the fact that a "strikeout" pitcher isn't used unless the game is already decided speaks volumes about the confidence the Twins had in Bowyer's ability to get meaningful outs. The only time he "had a job to do" was in the one game where he was trusted with a one run lead and proceeded to blow it big time against a very bad Royals team.
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