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Vargas gets sent down


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Sophmore jinx got to him lol, he had 1 good start against the Cubs earlier in the year. He just doesnt have it this year, and he prolly doesnt even feel comfortable coming out of the bullpen, can't give up on him just yet unless u can get something good for him in return which i do doubt.

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cant wait to see some of your reactions if/when one of the studs regresses next year

 

I will react the same way if one of the studs comes out next year and doesn't have the stuff anymore.

I wasnt referring to you

 

edit: I guess you knew that

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To be honest, and I'm not just saying this to be a smart ass, but I never thought Vargas would be a successful long-term starter. IMO, he doesn't have nasty stuff like Olsen or Nolasco does, so he hasn't been consistently successful. I actually classify JJ in the same category, he's done well this year but I worry about his future once hitters work him out, because he doesn't seem to vary his stuff that well. In my opinion, anyway.

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cant wait to see some of your reactions if/when one of the studs regresses next year

 

I will react the same way if one of the studs comes out next year and doesn't have the stuff anymore.

I wasnt referring to you

 

edit: I guess you knew that

Gotcha :thumbup

 

Regardless, I was just pointing to my surprise that, in my eye, Vargas just doesn't have the stuff this year. Getting knocked around and missing your spots happens, but I don't see the pitches anymore.

 

To be honest, and I'm not just saying this to be a smart ass, but I never thought Vargas would be a successful long-term starter. IMO, he doesn't have nasty stuff like Olsen or Nolasco does, so he hasn't been consistently successful. I actually classify JJ in the same category, he's done well this year but I worry about his future once hitters work him out, because he doesn't seem to vary his stuff that well. In my opinion, anyway.

 

I think there is a difference in stuff between JJ and Vargas. JJ has the power stuff...he's got a good power fastball and a nice slider.

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As I mentioned in the game thread, unless a reliever is injured this season or Vargas shows some major improvement in the minors we may have seen Vargas in a Marlins uniform for the last time tonight.

 

 

I really hope that isnt the case... I think this organization needs to decide what they are gonna do with him. They keep sending him to the minors to start and bring him up in the relief role. I dont think he is comfortable doing this. They let him sit around for about a month with out pitching and just throw him in when a starter fails. They need to decide if he is going to be a SP or RP. I really hope they can work something out for him.

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All major leaguers eventually are solved by the rest of the league. The people that stick around are those that adjust. Dontrelle Willis two seasons ago was very hittable....he adjusted. We have seen Willingham attempting to adjust this season. Hanley has yet to but the way he takes the ball the other way and willing to give in I assume he will be fine eventually. Olsen at the start of the season was pitching in a way that he was always down 2-1, 3-1 in the count and then became very hittable....he has adjusted and now is lights out when he is up 0-2 1-2 in the count as he can throw an assortment of pitches.

 

Vargas is messed up and someone needs to get in his head. Last season he atacked batters. What we have seen this year is him trying to stay away from batters, getting behind in the count and then laying the fastball right in the zone. Mechanically, I have no idea except to say that he seems to have lost the ability to keep the ball low in the zone.

 

I wouldn't count Vargas out just yet....but someone reminds him how to pitch (as he did last season) he can't be successful at the MLB level. From the stats I see he had the same problems at AAA too.

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Vargas should be starting...he needs to regain his confidence lingering in the bullpen does not help

I say send him to Double A if we have room for him there let him dominate there and thd then have him play winter ball...We wull see the old Vargas back again in the spring

 

I don't know if we'll see the flashes of brilliance we saw last season from Jason Vargas again, but I do agree he ought to be starting somewhere, or at the very least pitching every couple of days out of the pen. Pitching two or three times a month is the quickest way to bring anyone's career to a screeching halt.

 

Time to find room and playing time for him on the Albuquerque or Zebulon rosters. Both are carrying guys who will never make it to the bigs, at least Vargas has shown, when on his game he has the potential to contribute at the big league level.

 

Besides, he's worthless (read, trade value) right now. Consider it an investment.

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Vargas is messed up and someone needs to get in his head. Last season he atacked batters. What we have seen this year is him trying to stay away from batters, getting behind in the count and then laying the fastball right in the zone. Mechanically, I have no idea except to say that he seems to have lost the ability to keep the ball low in the zone.

 

I wouldn't count Vargas out just yet....but someone reminds him how to pitch (as he did last season) he can't be successful at the MLB level. From the stats I see he had the same problems at AAA too.

 

exactly.

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Hopefully he doesn't come back. He's a better hitter than he is a pitcher.

 

yea, let's hope he doesnt improve down at AAA and figure things out... I hope he is just another 2nd round bust

 

that would be awesome :thumbup

Which is the more likely scenario here?

first of all, I meant 'and' instead of "I"

 

and secondly, this is a guy who flat out dominated the minor leagues and was rushed to the show

 

not to mention he is still fairly young

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It would be a different story if he had actual stuff to work on. His game is all about location and by lacking a wide variety of pitches, mastering that is far more difficult.

 

Quite frankly I don't think he can pull it off.

 

 

were you questioning his stuff last season? some of you are so fickle it is sickening.

 

yes his stuff isn't as good as olsen's or johnsons, but it doesnt have to be to be a successful MLB starter. you and others here are spoiled because just about every young arm we have developed has been a power pitcher. from penny, beckett, burnett to johnson, nolasco, olsen, they all have that 93+ fastball and they all have the "stuff"

 

Vargas doesn't...but it doesn't mean he isnt a good young prospect. He stinks right now because he can't locate his pitches...last year he had full control and was effective. this year he keeps falling behind everyone and throwing meatballs down the middle of the plate and they get crushed. if Johnson or Olsen come in next and do the same, they will get crushed too. will you question their stuff then?

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Background: Vargas was a two-way player during a circuitous college career that saw him spend a year each at Louisiana State, Cypress (Calif.) JC and Long Beach State. The Marlins considered taking him in the first round in 2004, but opted for Taylor Tankersley before grabbing Vargas in the second. He's the nephew of former major league infielder Randy Velarde.

 

Strengths: Vargas has good arm strength, working at 91-94 mph with his fastball. His tight slider is a putaway pitch against lefties. His changeup has good downward action at times and could become a plus pitch. He has a strong mound presence, working quickly and going right after hitters. He has sound mechanics and command.

 

Weaknesses: Some scouts wonder if Vargas may wind up as a reliever because he has just one plus pitch against righthanders. Though he has a good physique, there's some concern about potential weight gain in his lower half. He tired near the end of the year after a late promotion to low Class A, but that's typical for first-year players.

 

The Future: Vargas should stay with Tankersley, beginning 2005 back at Greensboro. If he continues to show the progress he made in his pro debut, he'll reach high Class A by season's end.

 

Vargas has been overshadowed at Long Beach State by Jered Weaver, the projected No. 1 pick, but has commanded plenty of interest himself. In fact, his velocity has often topped Weaver's. He has been clocked up to 95 mph, a vast improvement from 2003 at Cypress JC, where his fastball ranged from 86-90. Scouts said Vargas was always capable of throwing harder, but it didn't happen until he took extra measures to tone up his 6-foot, 215-pound frame. Also an accomplished hitter, he was used more in a DH role this spring to conserve his energy. He was hitting .368-5-32 while going 7-6, 4.25 with 81 strikeouts in 97 innings on the mound. Vargas, who spent his freshman year at Louisiana State, doesn't have an especially fast arm, and there are questions whether he profiles better as a reliever or starter because he lacks a dominant second pitch. But he's a lefthander with a mid-90s fastball, and that alone should make him a sandwich pick or high second-rounder.

 

Lets remember that last year was Vargas first full season in the minors(he started at low A ball) and he made it to the majors that same year. I don't see Vargas as a starter but I do feel he can be a damn good reliver.

 

Anybody want to take a look at Tankersley# as a starter last year? yet look at him now

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