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For all you Girardi haters out there


rorod

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Im just playing devil's advocate here, but generally i do like girardi.

 

Look at all the obstacles the marlins have faced....15 million dollar payroll....a roster filled with rookies....4/5 of the rotation were rookies....no home field advantage(basically)....ownership not getting a vet at the deadline to help the team out, rookie manager and pitching coach....and the list goes on and on

 

 

AND THEN ON TOP OF EVERYTHING ELSE THEIR MANAGER JOE GIRARDI IS SABOTAGING THEM!

 

...and yet the team remained in the wild card hunt with 2 weeks left of the season instead of trying to avoid 120 losses.

 

i think you guys are giving the fish way too much credit here....they couldn't have done all this by themselves.

 

remember girardi is a rookie too he will learn to make better in game decisions with time...

 

he must have been doing something right i mean no one imagined this team getting so far...

 

ive heard of war generals who arent great military strategists but they no how to rally thge troops and get them to believe in themselves....that is what joe did imo and with time he will learn better managerial deisions making him a very good manager imo....its a shame to see him go

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Im just playing devil's advocate here, but generally i do like girardi.

 

Look at all the obstacles the marlins have faced....15 million dollar payroll....a roster filled with rookies....4/5 of the rotation were rookies....no home field advantage(basically)....ownership not getting a vet at the deadline to help the team out, rookie manager and pitching coach....and the list goes on and on

 

 

AND THEN ON TOP OF EVERYTHING ELSE THEIR MANAGER JOE GIRARDI IS SABOTAGING THEM!

 

...and yet the team remained in the wild card hunt with 2 weeks left of the season instead of trying to avoid 120 losses.

 

i think you guys are giving the fish way too much credit here....they couldn't have done all this by themselves.

 

remember girardi is a rookie too he will learn to make better in game decisions with time...

 

he must have been doing something right i mean no one imagined this team getting so far...

 

ive heard of war generals who arent great military strategists but they no how to rally thge troops and get them to believe in themselves....that is what joe did imo and with time he will learn better managerial deisions making him a very good manager imo....its a shame to see him go

 

*Look outside the window and see a group of angry Girardi hater*

Nice knowing you kid.

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I dunno if I believe that I would've given Girardi a bad time if he had lost 100 games, you can't entirely blame him. The best example of that is, when it comes to the KC Royals, who actually blames Buddy Bell for their sucking. Would you blame Girardi for losing with a team all the 'experts' couldn't foresee winning?

 

P.S. I support Girardi!

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What's interesting for those who want to go find the stories, there is beginning to appear in the Chicago press a notion that he isn't the man to replace Baker. There appears to be beginning of a backstory regarding Girardi that makes the same media who were ready to carry him around the Windy City on their shoulders a few weeks ago, to now want to distance themselves from him.

 

There was even one that opined, what if Fredi (Gonzalez) choses the Marlins over the Cubs? Interesting read and similar to many of the thoughts here.

 

Frankly, if Joe goes, he goes, all things being equal I'd like him here next year but that looks unlikely.

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see...for me...its not that i hate girardi or anything rediculous like that...he did a fantastic job with this team...but i also think to a certain extent...he stunted the growth of some players and contributed largely to getting other guys hurt...on the overall...would i prefer to have him back next year...yeah...see if his in game management improves...but i was also on the fredi gonzalez bandwagon last year and thats my story and im stickin to it...or joey cora...he would be cool with me too

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What's interesting for those who want to go find the stories, there is beginning to appear in the Chicago press a notion that he isn't the man to replace Baker. There appears to be beginning of a backstory regarding Girardi that makes the same media who were ready to carry him around the Windy City on their shoulders a few weeks ago, to now want to distance themselves from him.

 

There was even one that opined, what if Fredi (Gonzalez) choses the Marlins over the Cubs? Interesting read and similar to many of the thoughts here.

 

Frankly, if Joe goes, he goes, all things being equal I'd like him here next year but that looks unlikely.

 

 

 

I checked the main papers, the Tribune and Sun Times, and a few others.

 

Apparently Fredi, who seems like he has been on every short list for a managerial position lately, is on that list for both the Marlins and Cubs, along with the fact that Cubs 3B coach Joey Cora is on the Marlins list. Creates some interesting complications.

 

A week or so ago the Sun Times said:

 

If the ax falls next month -- as most observers and Cubs fans expect -- look for Loria to shove the dirty work Beinfest's way. If Girardi -- easily the most attractive name to replace Dusty Baker in Chicago -- gets fired, the timing should coincide with him being named the National League Manager of the Year .

http://www.suntimes.com/output/deluca/cst-spt-bbin17.html

 

But the articles in the Tribune didn't say anything about anyone "distancing" themselves from Girardi and certainly nothing like: "he isn't the man to replace Baker." Maybe that's elsewhere?http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-0609240060sep24,1,3464205.column http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...1,4119566.story

 

And aparently Hendry has said he won't discuss the Dusty Baker situation until after the season, so of course he can't be talking about a replacement yet. http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/courier...CUBS_S10924.asp

 

In fact, the SunTimes mentioned Beinfest's praise fo the soon to be ex-manager:

 

They've been loose and playing hard,'' Beinfest said of an improbable Marlins run right into the wild-card race. ''A lot of credit goes to Joe and his staff for their effort creating that culture. They have been prepared every day. They play hard every day, and the expectation is to win every day. Joe and his staff instilled that from Day 1 . Whether we were 11-31 or 73-71, it hasn't changed.'

 

 

And said today that:

 

Joe Girardi, Marlins: He has one year of experience and is about to be fired. That says more about the pettiness of Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria than it does about the former Cubs catcher. He will be a strong candidate -- certainly a fan favorite -- to replace Baker in Chicago. Working so much magic with a $14.9 million payroll guarantees him a job somewhere .

 

 

So things are still looking good for Joe.

 

But I agree with you that it's unlikely Girardi will be here next year.

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Hate is too strong of a word. I have just three opinions on the man:

 

1. He plays by the book a lot. This might help in gaining jobs, but it doesn't necessarily help winning.

2. He's made some good decisions this year. He's made some bad decisions this year. We're entitled to question those decisions.

3. He is the manager - the focus of the team's leadership to fans, the media and most. However, he's just the field manager. There's also a general manager. And a scouting director, President, Owner and not to mention the 25 guys on the roster. I'm not saying any disruption Girardi may or may not have caused had a good (or bad) effect, but it will not be tolerated by those that rank above him in the chain. That's a fact of the matter, whether you consider it a blessing or unfortunate.

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I like Girardi enough to want him to stay. Since May 22 we are still playing way over 500. As long as there are enough others helping with the decision making process, I don't think there's a need to change. That said, I don't know anything for a fact about the strange early ideas(like Cabrera at first) and other problems he has had with other team brass. Hopefully cooler heads prevail, but if not, that's ok too. The team will survive, the talent will remain, and progress will go on. They did well enough to hire the right guy (Girardi) to help this team during this rebuilding year. I trust they can find the right guy for the future too if it's not Girardi.

All said, Girardi does do some kooky stuff that seems indefensible (having Hanley bunt with 2 strikes, playing Amezaga vs lefties, overuse of Herges early on, starting JJ in the Pen). I like to think the best of him, but I've been stuck sitting scratching my head over decisions quite a few times. And (an estimated) nine times out of ten, that confusion is followed by Marlins loss.

Not to take away from Joe's positive effects on our team, but consider how many games we could've won with a little different decision making process. Hindsight is 20/20, but we don't need hindsight to see all his mistakes.

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Girardi is a horrible tactician, he has no eye for talent, and has a horrible relationship with one of the best, if not the best, FO in baseball. From what I know of him he seems like an affable, classy individual but as a manager he is awful and I think the Marlins have won alot of games despite him. The lion's share of the credit goes to the players, period. That said, I wouldn't have minded giving him another year to grow into the roll but I'm not uspet about his termination.

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Girardi is in a no-lose situation with most fans. Lose 100 games and they were supposed to because ESPN and other experts were telling them so for months. Not lose 100 games and look like a complete genius. If just one of the young pitchers doesn't pan out like they did we would be looking at a 100-loss team. Please tell me exactly what Girardi did to affect this? It is easy to say he created a culture of winning, but if either Ricky Nolasco or Josh Johnson or Scott Olsen became an Oliver Perez instead of the quality pitchers they became we'd be exactly where all the "experts" thought they would be.

 

I am not a Girardi-hater. When he's fired it won't be deserved based on results. However, after watching him for a year I will say that I don't really agree with his baseball strategy and if they can bring someone else in that is a better strategist I would be for the move.

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OT a bit, but I had to mention it. I find it hilarious when people love to bash the 2005 team for not having heart, etc., but this is a new one - They didn't have talent. That's a classic. Fans love to see thing in 20/20 hindsight instead of using common sense. The misplaced anger that MB.com posters have towards the 2005 team for not finishing the deal is a prime example of why the "market correction" was not a wise business move. Attendance fell short of 2 million, but you had the beginnings of a fanbase that was pissed off at the end of a season (which is a good thing) at the teams shortcomings and wanted the team to do better, rather than the indifference that's been the history of this club. You want those angry fans to recoup over the off-season and come back with high optimism and bring the stability you want for a franchise.

 

For as much joy I got out so seeing a team that everybody said was going to lose 100+ plus games play their way back into the Wild Card race at the end of the season, I enjoyed last year more watching the team in the race every day, agonizing over each loss, rejoicing after each win, watching the scoreboard every night. That's what fielding a competitive team and playing games that matter does whether the team wins or not. That's the same enjoyment people here got the last 1-2 months, as oppossed to the MB.com suicide watch during the 11-31 rough start.

 

For one, I had no problem with Girardi, and everyone makes mistakes. If LaRussa was perfect, he would have 10+ rings now. But it is human nature for people with an ax to grind to look for a few mistakes and blow it out of proportion. If he loses 100 games with the exact same "talented" team, everybody says that's what was expected. So when he gets that "talent" to finish within 4-6 games of .500, all of a sudden, it has nothing to do with Girardi, it's all about the players "heart", etc. So what happens next year when the "talented" team finishes 70-92 (they won't, BTW) under the new manager? Well, guess what, all the Girardi bashers will turn into the new manager bashers (and still not give Girardi credit for 2006).

 

Ah, the life of a fan...

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Good post 954

 

Yeah Im kinda bummed out that the bullpen threw up on themselves worse than normal coming down the stretch because it would have made for some interesting reading on MB.com

 

 

I can just see the manager bashers continuing with the hate as the Marlins charged into the playoffs. It would have been hilarious to read how Girardi is such a horrible manager as the Marlins clinched the NLCS.

 

Oh well. They'll have a new skipper to second guess next year.

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What's interesting for those who want to go find the stories, there is beginning to appear in the Chicago press a notion that he isn't the man to replace Baker. There appears to be beginning of a backstory regarding Girardi that makes the same media who were ready to carry him around the Windy City on their shoulders a few weeks ago, to now want to distance themselves from him.

 

There was even one that opined, what if Fredi (Gonzalez) choses the Marlins over the Cubs? Interesting read and similar to many of the thoughts here.

 

Frankly, if Joe goes, he goes, all things being equal I'd like him here next year but that looks unlikely.

 

 

That's because the FO of the Cubs and Hendry specifically are reluctant to hire an "invincible" manager, which is what Girardi would be in Chicago.

 

Girardi comes to Chicago and the Cubs do well? All credit goes to Joe.

 

Girardi comes to Chicago and the Cubs fail? All blame goes to Hendry.

 

Girardi doesn't come to Chicago and the Cubs fail? "Why didn't they hire Girardi?"

 

Hendry doesn't want a coach who will overshadow him and take no blame whatsoever for 2007.

 

That's why I'm still reluctant to do the Girardi move, because the only replacement I'd moderately be in favor of is Fredi Gonzalez, and he's on the top of at least one other team's wish-list.

 

If this is going to be done, Gonzalez has to be signed sealed and delivered before a Girardi move is made.

 

 

Oh, and for the argument that most are making in favor of Girardi, that argument suggests that NO MANAGER should ever be changed, since no manager hits or pitches.

 

To me, the only defense for Girardi is that the job of a manager is to put the team in the best position to win, yet he (Girardi) does not deserve any blame since he was not given the best tools reasonably expected to win. The comedy of errors that is our bullpen outside of Tankersley and at times Pinto, Borowski and Herges is atrocious at best.

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Guest FishFanInPA

I'm pro girardi too....this organization is a disgrace in so many ways if they fire him....remember he made this season relevant....we were supposed to throw this season away because it was supposed to suck.

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