I don't like the idea of seeing Julio out there in the 7th or 8th inning. That just means we'll give up the lead sooner.

Flum, I wasn't talking about you, you and I usually either agree or agree to disagree, but there are some people here for which a problem like Julio has become is a chance to throw a big hate party, and that's the behavior I was referring to.

 

I think you're factually incorrect in a number of areas, the first being you're ignoring Julio's work in Arizona last summer. And I would suggest you go to his ESPN page and look through his gamelog. I wrote about it in another thread a few days ago. Very illuminating. Look at April, May June for example.

 

But essentially you are right, this isn't working right now. No argument there.

 

I also think this demand for perfection from Beinfest, which was something I think got really ugly in this thread last night is misplaced. And I don't think he's telling Fredi directly to do this or that. Does Gonzalez know what the FO would like to see happen? Absolutely.

 

This idea that Beinfest is arrogant or being arrogant in this matter really flies in the face of who he is and how he operates. In the times I've spoken with him, or listened to him speak publically or in small groups, he simply doesn't display that characteristic. Again, does he want the team to succeed or fail? Ask yourself that. Does he believe he's right about Julio? No doubt. But his track record with closers and other players from Pudge to now suggest if anyone can pick a reclamation project and make it work, it's the talent evaluators in the Marlins FO.

 

This is going to be one of those where we are just on opposite sides, see things differently. No hard feelings on my part.

Beinfest will not admit and shouldn't admit being wrong after 7 games. This is baseball, and not college football. Is not the first reliever with this type of problems, and won't be the last.

 

"Why does Beinfest think that someone who hasn't performed in 2 years can magically turn it around?" see Todd Jones and JoBo

 

"I'd also like to add that in other lines of work you aren't just handed a job at which you've consistently failed, and you certainly don't maintain your job by displaying consistently poor performance." I agree with this. Hopefuly this a learning experience for the future.

I'm not saying that Julio can't be successful at some point in the future, but Beinfest is wrong to keep him at closer right NOW.

Beinfest will not admit and shouldn't admit being wrong after 7 games. This is baseball, and not college football. Is not the first reliever with this type of problems, and won't be the last.

 

"Why does Beinfest think that someone who hasn't performed in 2 years can magically turn it around?" see Todd Jones and JoBo

 

"I'd also like to add that in other lines of work you aren't just handed a job at which you've consistently failed, and you certainly don't maintain your job by displaying consistently poor performance." I agree with this. Hopefuly this a learning experience for the future.

I'm not saying that Julio can't be successful at some point in the future, but Beinfest is wrong to keep him at closer right NOW.

 

I haven't seen Fredi and/or Beinfest say that Julio will be out there on the next closing situation.

I can't believe how rude and disrespecting most of you posters are being. It's absolutely discouraging and something that this site is not known for. I'm absolutely disgusted by how most of you are going around displaying your opinion. It's disgusting and I'm ashamed to read threads like these especially from marlinbaseball.com.

 

We're 5-2 with a team put together by Beinfest of prospects. Beinfest has built this team that you're cheering for and he has brought in some GREAT band-aid closers who have won big in free agency the season after. He's bound to miss on a closer sooner or later. He's made one mistake and it's only been 7 f***ing games. He's built a great team, a GREAT team out of NOTHING. Florida is THIRD in the MLB in Runs scored, SECOND in hits and FIRST in RBI's. Who the hell has put together this unbelievable young team? Beinfest. This team is absolutely killing the ball out there and instead of celebrating the fact that we're making contact and scoring runs, we're calling for the head of our GM and Coach?

 

You guys are being f***ing ridiculous and I'm disgusted and hope severe punishment is thrown out towards the people who made those statements. I'm absolutely disgusted and ashamed.

 

 

Great post! Beinfest is the best in the business and I'll continue to back his every move.

 

I truly believe that Owens should have been the closer all along BUT Julio will be dominant once we get him out of the closer role.

I point to Armando Benitez, 2003. Mets fans will still tell you he sucks because he had a bad April. Dusty Baker put him on the All-Star team.

 

What exactly are you trying to point at? He had a 2.96 total ERA that year. 2.27 the year before. 1.29 the year after.

 

After Julio's 2002 season, his ERA has been: 4.38, 4.57, 5.90, 4.23.

 

Yeah, I don't see what you are getting at. Just because one fan base may not be happy doesn't mean the two pitchers are very comparable.

I don't know if you are going to see this in the papers tomorrow or not, but things got heated inside the clubhouse between Julio and "a member of the starting rotation"

 

good times

So is this confirmed? Not to doubt you, but where did you hear this?

I don't know if you are going to see this in the papers tomorrow or not, but things got heated inside the clubhouse between Julio and "a member of the starting rotation"

 

good times

So is this confirmed? Not to doubt you, but where did you hear this?

If the member of the rotation gave Julio crap for pitching poorly then the member of the rotation is an a**hole. I don't think Julio is screwing up on purpose. I'll bet it was Olsen and if it is was Olsen this is just another reason to not like this overrated punk.

I don't know if you are going to see this in the papers tomorrow or not, but things got heated inside the clubhouse between Julio and "a member of the starting rotation"

 

good times

So is this confirmed? Not to doubt you, but where did you hear this?

If the member of the rotation gave Julio crap for pitching poorly then the member of the rotation is an a**hole. I don't think Julio is screwing up on purpose. I'll bet it was Olsen and if it is was Olsen this is just another reason to not like this overrated punk.

 

 

Olsen has a horrible personality. I believe he was quoted in the paper saying he didn't care if he did well in school growing up.

i have been a member here for like a year and never posted here but i feel very strongly on this...as i don't think i've ever seen a situation like this before givin all the homegrown great arms we have...i posted this in the wrong thread so here it is again:

 

i sure wish there was something we could do as fans to stop this disaster in the making. to keep putting this fruitcake out on the mound is suicide! freddie is just being the puppet that loria wants! if they pull julio now it would prove that management has made one of the bigger mistakes in recent memory. they paid this trash 3.5 million (third higest on the team) to blow saves? why do you think this is his 4th team? :banghead

 

it's so hard to be a marlins fan sometimes...

I don't know if you are going to see this in the papers tomorrow or not, but things got heated inside the clubhouse between Julio and "a member of the starting rotation"

 

good times

LoL.. Oh yeah!!

By the way, as 2003 pointed out and many of you still seem to be ignoring, we aren't paying Julio 3.5 million. The number is closer to 2 million. Or did I miss something about the deal?

PURE PIG this guy is...

Off topic but about Julio.

 

Did anyone see this play live or on t.v. It was HILARIOUS. He was waiting for a chopper by the mound and before the ball came down he fell flat on his face.

By the way, as 2003 pointed out and many of you still seem to be ignoring, we aren't paying Julio 3.5 million. The number is closer to 2 million. Or did I miss something about the deal?

That changes very little in my mind. It's still a lot for this team either way. Basically, it doesn't let me sleep any easier at night.

 

I agree.

 

I'm glad you changed your sig btw.

It's becoming funny.. and even funnier how the players are just like "oh well.. we'll still find a way to win"

4. This is not about money, not in the slightest. If Admin Beinfest found a better choice last night to close games for the Marlins, Jeffrey Loria would have already signed the check.

That's absolute horseshit. We had a deal for Armando Benitez and Loria wouldn't take on more of his salary. That being said, Benitez is having some bad outings too. The bottom line is that we didn't need a closer. And now by, acquiring one, we do.

 

If people didn't see an improvement (note: see my comments in the game thread, I'm none too happy with what happened either or with Julio's performance to date) in his pitches last night, and frankly with his control, then it's just that you're so filled with hate for everythng Marlins, that you're blind to it.

 

He keeps throwing that bender for strikes like he showed last night and this will work itself out, or it won't and the FO will make another decision, but anyone who was watching could see last night a vast improvement, that is if they were open-minded.

Yea, he was throwing more strikes last night. The only ball that wasn't tattooed was the slower grounder to Cabrera. Craig Counsell absolutely hammered a ball and I'm pretty sure everyone here would agree that they thought he got all of it. JJ Hardy, all 77lbs of him crushed a ball to dead CF. I don't recall which player Josh Willingham robbed of extra bases either. So yea, Julio is throwing more strikes, but he isn't fooling anyone.

 

2. We gave up nothing for Julio, other than a perrenial AAA pitcher, whose underperformance is becoming legendary, who the Diamondbacks immediately sent to the minor leagues. To scream in capital letters we gave up a pitcher (OMG) is just more rhetoric. *If last night proved anything, it's that we have pitching coming out our ears.

Sadly I looked up what perennial means. According to dictionary.com, it is one of these four:

1. lasting for an indefinitely long time; enduring: her perennial beauty.

2. (of plants) having a life cycle lasting more than two years.

3. lasting or continuing throughout the entire year, as a stream.

4. perpetual; everlasting; continuing; recurrent.

This is Yusmiero Petit's 2nd full season at AAA. He is all of 22 years old too. It isn't a shonda for someone to repeat a level, especially someone who breezed through A and AA ball.

 

3. We're not paying Julio $3.5 million this season, the number is closer to $2 million after the Diamondbacks contribution and deducting Petit's salary. I know it's math and some people refuse to do it but the number is much closer to two than three million.

And while some are certainly in the wrong over how much he is getting, he is still the 3rd highest paid Marlin on this team. It's $2+mil that we have no reason wasting on this guy.

 

Not as an excuse for Julio because there are none, but the Marlins squandered a number of chances last night and then shut down, getting I think one hit in the final five innings. I don't hear anyone calling out Cabrera for going 0-4 and leaving men on base all night, or Willingham looking more like the bat boy at the plate than a starting leftfielder on a major league club. Failure and slumps are part of the game. Julio deserves more blame than most, but it can be spread around.

This one really gets to me 03. Why would anyone ANYONE call out Cabrera or Willingham? Unlike Julio, they have been a positive to this team and even in a bad night, Josh Willingham had 3 very good defensive plays. Why you choose to lump Julio in with these two is beyond me.

By the way, as 2003 pointed out and many of you still seem to be ignoring, we aren't paying Julio 3.5 million. The number is closer to 2 million. Or did I miss something about the deal?

That changes very little in my mind. It's still a lot for this team either way. Basically, it doesn't let me sleep any easier at night.

 

But it undermines your contention in the post before this one that it's costing the Marlins all this money and by implication that's why they're trotting him out there.

 

And your opening comment of that post, "None of the people against the trade from the beginning (including myself) were that upset about losing Petit" is baseless and untrue. As late as early this morning some of the same people who voiced a negative opinion of the move that we traded Petit.

 

Perhaps you'll never be convinced the deal made sense but at the same if you want to be intellectually honest you have to lot at what happened to Julio a) in May and June of '07 after an eerily similar beginning in April and b) his overall performance wonce he got out of New York.

 

I think I know what drives you around the bend on the Julio thing and that is you watched first hand his performance in Baltimore. I've been a member of orioleshangout.com for four years, certainly I know how fans there reacted to him and I see it in every one of your posts. I know where you're coming from.

 

Frankly I think another week of rehabbing for Tankersley is probably the right thing to do in the long term and Isuspect by then the Julio thing will have resolved, or at least partially resolved itself. One way or the other ownership and the FO isn't going to allow this linger. It's such small money (even for this franchise) if they wind up DFAing him in a week there will probably be such a collective sigh of relief on the part of the fans it will have been worth it in the longrun and turn into a positive for the FO who will be perceived as having listened to the folks in the stands.

 

So I continue to think more is being made of this than need be. It will run it's course.

I don't know if you are going to see this in the papers tomorrow or not, but things got heated inside the clubhouse between Julio and "a member of the starting rotation"

 

good times

So is this confirmed? Not to doubt you, but where did you hear this?

Any info? I'm really interested to find out who it was (just like everyone else on this board)

We all want Julio to do well, but at this point, he shouldn't be near a save situation in any inning. He needs to come into game with huge leads/deficits and work on his stuff. He can still be a somewhat decent reliever, but he is a complete mental case right now.

Can I just throw some perspective out there?

 

Mariano Rivera - arguably the greatest closer in baseball history - started off the 2005 season with back to back blown saves - AGAINST THE RED SOX! There is no greater sin in the City of New York than to be the guy responsible for a loss to the Red Sox. People started saying that he lost it, the Yankees needed a new closer, people figured out his cutter, Rivera would never be the same again, blah blah blah.

 

He finished 2005 with 43 saves in 47 opportunities, an era of 1.38 and a WHIP of 0.87. Oh right - he also finished 2nd in Cy Young voting that year.

 

Now, I realize that Julio is no Rivera. However, you all know what he is capable of. I'm putting my money where my mouth is - I picked him up off of waivers for my fantasy team last night. Let's see who gives up on him first; me or the Marlins.

I don't know if you are going to see this in the papers tomorrow or not, but things got heated inside the clubhouse between Julio and "a member of the starting rotation"

 

good times

So is this confirmed? Not to doubt you, but where did you hear this?

Any info? I'm really interested to find out who it was (just like everyone else on this board)

Since it hasn't been published, I really don't think I should say anything more than that. There isn't much more to the story anyway.

 

Can I just throw some perspective out there?

 

Mariano Rivera - arguably the greatest closer in baseball history - started off the 2005 season with back to back blown saves - AGAINST THE RED SOX! There is no greater sin in the City of New York than to be the guy responsible for a loss to the Red Sox. People started saying that he lost it, the Yankees needed a new closer, Rivera would never be the same again, blah blah blah.

 

He finished 2005 with 43 saves in 47 opportunities, an era of 1.38 and a WHIP of 0.87. Oh right - he also finished 2nd in Cy Young voting that year.

 

Now, I realize that Julio is no Rivera. However, you all know what he is capable of. I'm putting my money where my mouth is - I picked him up off of waivers for my fantasy team last night. Let's see who gives up on him first; me or the Marlins.

With all do respect. COME ON!

 

Julio isn't coming off an All Star year or something. And yea, we know what Julio is capable of. Being a mediocre relief man with flashes of brilliance and flashes of sheer horror.

I don't know if you are going to see this in the papers tomorrow or not, but things got heated inside the clubhouse between Julio and "a member of the starting rotation"

 

good times

 

this was probably olsen. if i were olsen i'd shut the hell up. julio would break him in two if they got into it.

 

plus, this is no way to help out a teammate. regardless of how funny you think this is or how little you respect julio as a baseball player, it is not professional to act this way.

 

olsen will have a period in his career where he'll get smoked by hitters. in fact, if i recall correctly, he got smoked a lot early last season.

 

olsen should shut his arrogant ass up.

 

be supportive of your teammate.

 

and this goes to all of you that are being completely ridiculous and offensive to your fellow marlins fans and the front office. you need to take a chill pill.

Can I just throw some perspective out there?

 

Mariano Rivera - arguably the greatest closer in baseball history - started off the 2005 season with back to back blown saves - AGAINST THE RED SOX! There is no greater sin in the City of New York than to be the guy responsible for a loss to the Red Sox. People started saying that he lost it, the Yankees needed a new closer, people figured out his cutter, Rivera would never be the same again, blah blah blah.

 

He finished 2005 with 43 saves in 47 opportunities, an era of 1.38 and a WHIP of 0.87. Oh right - he also finished 2nd in Cy Young voting that year.

 

Now, I realize that Julio is no Rivera. However, you all know what he is capable of. I'm putting my money where my mouth is - I picked him up off of waivers for my fantasy team last night. Let's see who gives up on him first; me or the Marlins.

 

LOL man. You want this board to crash again? Putting Mariano and Julio on the same post.

 

With that said, I agree and I think it is too early to give up on him

LOL man. You want this board to crash again? Putting Mariano and Julio on the same post.

:lol

 

Just making a point... :mischief