1) Did the trade make sense? YES

 

2) Are the Marlins better with Julio instead of Petit? YES

 

3) Is Julio a better pitcher than Petit? YES

 

4) Will Julio turn it around? YES

 

Some of these fans need to relax......

 

1) Why did it make sense?... And don't answer your question about Petit

 

2) How?... Julio has done nothing so far to make anyone think otherwise

 

3) Yea, he has better STUFF than Petit. Right now he is a complete head case who can't do jack

 

4) Maybe

 

Anyway, I think Julio should be removed from any pressure situations. Let him get some innings under his belt in blow out games, and hopefully regain his confidence so he can somewhat contribute to the pen.

 

I definitely missed this post earlier.... WMM, can you explain #2? How are we better with Julio instead of Petit? Julio single handedly does his best to lose games for us that we have won. Petit, if he wasn't even going to make the big league club would certainly not be hurting us at AAA. If he was on the Marlins, I can't imagine any way he does worse than Julio.

I would like to say that Jorge Julio sucks at pitching.

I point to Armando Benitez, 2003. Mets fans will still tell you he sucks because he had a bad April. Dusty Baker put him on the All-Star team.

I am usually very patient. I'm usually of the last fans to give up on players, but I've had it with Julio.

 

He has shown he is consistent in being ineffective. If he had blown a save, then done well for a few games before he had blown the second save, well, that would be a different story.

 

He has proven that he can't get the job done. He has not looked good in ANY of his appearances. It is time to demote him to a less stressful situation or mop-up duty. If he is not effective under those circumstances then he needs to have a minor league vacation.

 

If he is allowed to continue to close games, Beinfest will be faced with a fan uprising he and the Marlins don't need.

To steal a line from Dan LeBetard or Boog Sciambi(I think that they both use this expression), you are all playing the result here, and that isn't the real issue. Sometimes good moves turn out poorly, but it doesn't mean it wasn't a good move. Sometimes bad moves turn out good. Jack McKeon twice made moves in 2003 that resulted in Mike Lowell being replaced in extra innings by Mike Mordecai. He ended up hitting game winning home runs, but the moves were still idiotic. Trading a middling pitching prospect with average MLB stuff for a potential closer that can help you this year is a move I'd make every time. Obviously Julio isn't working out right now. He's pitching awfully and shouldn't be counted on to close games. I see it, you all see it, Beinfest and Gonzalez see it, and I doubt you'll see Julio in a close game again until he throws at least 1 scoreless inning of middle relief. That still doesn't make it the wrong move to make.

"I need to throw strikes," Julio said. "They got a double and tied the game. That's it. ... It's a long season."

 

Getting Julio in a position to succeed has become a priority, and Gonzalez didn't rule out the possibility of switching his role to a setup spot to regain his confidence.

 

"We've got to keep running him out there and he's got to pitch," Gonzalez said. "We need him to get over this hurdle, and I think he will. He's doing everything right, working, being in the video room. Those are good signs."

 

Asked if Julio would be moved to the seventh or eighth inning, Gonzalez said: "That's a good idea. I haven't decided on that yet."

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...rtnered=rss_fla

 

that last line... that's got to be a f***ing joke.

Gonzalez is using Beinfest's mind to f*** games up. Girardi used his own mind to f*** games up

 

you know he wants to get Julio out of there.

The problem with Julio is that he never did anything to deserve the closer role. Others had solid spring training and solid outings in the regular season while Julio continues to fail. All it says to this team is that doing if you do well it doesn't matter, we're still going to go to our struggling closer because "he's our guy". You can't fool the players on the team who should be out there.

He was failing before We traded for him. He hasn't pitched well in any way for the past 3 years

I really don't have much of a problem with the trade. Petit in all likelyhood did not have a place on this team in the future. (Although I'm guessing he would have started this game rather than Vanden Hurk) Where I have a problem is the idea to keep throwing him out there in the 9th. He obviously cannot perform at the major league level right now for whatever reason...mechanics, mental, whatever he sucks. Like Tommy said. This isn't spring training. We can't keep 'throwing him out there' and hope he figures it out. Give him a month of mop up duty and figure this out. Then bring him back into a meaningful role if he responds positively. I've never seen such stubborness from management to remove someone who can't throw stikes and never even earned the position to begin with. I guess it is partially Beinfest's pride that the trade has failed so miserably.

 

Just for the love of God take him out of the closer position. I don't give a damn about anything else. What's done is done. Now swallow your pride correct your damn mistake.

We should have been 7-1 if it wasnt for the HORROR-HEY guy. Argh... Someone needs to do something.

 

After the game was suspended, Gonzalez didn't rule out the possibility of moving Julio to eighth- or seventh-inning duty.

 

"The only thing I know for sure is we've got to keep running him out there and he's got to pitch. We need him to get over this hurdle and I think he will,'' Gonzalez said.

 

Julio hasn't shown any signs in his five appearances this season of emerging as a dominant closer

Post.com

 

This makes me sick.... I hope he slips on the way to the pen tomorrow.

 

Here is something from sun-sent. :rolleyes

 

"I don't know what happened," Julio said. "I try to throw strikes. I give up hit, a double, and they tie the game. It is just one of 162 games."

 

JUST 1 GAME.... WTF.

Sounds like he won't be closing much anymore. But they still have to use him. If he can get this figured out, that bullpen is dangerous. I hope he does.

gotta love the passion here, even if some is misplaced towards each other.

 

Like I said before, I didnt like the move, but it was one that wasnt a huge mistake by beinfest. It is not like football where 1 game is 1/16th of the schedule here. But, every game does matter and count (specially in this market and the type of common fans out there). This guy should not be the closer and I expect he will be moved to deeper into the bullpen. In the future given another chance once more. I still like Owens or Lindstrom for the closers role, or tank (if/when he is finally fully ready).

 

Brett Sinkbeil would be a nice closer option when he is ready next year (perhaps), too.

Wow, I feel guilty joining in this late in the thread. Like many, I don't have a problem with the trade, but now the results speak for themselves. Instead of solving our closer problem, we have created a closer problem. Before Julio's "illness" gets infectious, he must be moved from the closer spot.

 

It is so early in the season to really make judgements about new players, but for the time being our CF problem has been adequately resolved without making a move. It looks like our closer spot would have been the same-but we made a move for an experienced player and now we have to respond in the only logical manner-GET HIM OUT OF THE CLOSER SPOT.

We should have been 7-1 if it wasnt for the HORROR-HEY guy. Argh... Someone needs to do something.

 

After the game was suspended, Gonzalez didn't rule out the possibility of moving Julio to eighth- or seventh-inning duty.

 

"The only thing I know for sure is we've got to keep running him out there and he's got to pitch. We need him to get over this hurdle and I think he will,'' Gonzalez said.

 

Julio hasn't shown any signs in his five appearances this season of emerging as a dominant closer

Post.com

 

This makes me sick.... I hope he slips on the way to the pen tomorrow.

 

Here is something from sun-sent. :rolleyes

 

"I don't know what happened," Julio said. "I try to throw strikes. I give up hit, a double, and they tie the game. It is just one of 162 games."

 

JUST 1 GAME.... WTF.

 

god damn. now he's in denial.

So Julio, how many times are you going to lose "just one game"? They kinda build up after a while. You are right about it being a long season, and when you keep giving away games, it makes it a really long season for the fans and your teammates who play hard for a win which you then take from them.

Whether the number is four, five, nine, two or whatever Julio will get more opportunities.

 

If people didn't see an improvement (note: see my comments in the game thread, I'm none too happy with what happened either or with Julio's performance to date) in his pitches last night, and frankly with his control, then it's just that you're so filled with hate for everythng Marlins, that you're blind to it.

 

He keeps throwing that bender for strikes like he showed last night and this will work itself out, or it won't and the FO will make another decision, but anyone who was watching could see last night a vast improvement, that is if they were open-minded.

 

It may be he's demoted to work things out - sixth, seventh inning - but what happened last night was a classic ninth inning scenario that has happened to every closer in the last 25 years. Walks the first guy, winds up scoring.

 

No doubt I'll be heaped with scorn for my comments but so be it. As unhappy with the result as the rest of you, I saw a much better fastball and a breaking pitch we hadn't seen in his first three appearances. Regardless of how some reported Tommy Hutton's comments, initially he sounded impressed by Julio's transformation, it should have been obvious to anyone he was moving in the right direction.

 

He's overthrowing. Trying too hard. But again, he's losing ballgames single-handedly and letting his team down and that can't go on and on. He's not doing his job and I'll be the first to say so.

 

Should he be demoted now? I don't think so but I understand everyone's frustration and I certainly share it. If that's the decision made, fine. But a few things pop to mind:

 

1. As much as the franchise-haters here want to personalize this and belittle and insult the same GM who with his staff set up what appears to be an otherwise very well constructed bullpen and who brought up Vanden Hurk for last night's game even though those same haters ridiculed that decision, Julio in their eyes defines all the work the front office has accomplished in the off-season. And those would be the same people who further insulted and belittled the FO for De Aza as well.

 

2. We gave up nothing for Julio, other than a perrenial AAA pitcher, whose underperformance is becoming legendary, who the Diamondbacks immediately sent to the minor leagues. To scream in capital letters we gave up a pitcher (OMG) is just more rhetoric. *If last night proved anything, it's that we have pitching coming out our ears.*

 

3. We're not paying Julio $3.5 million this season, the number is closer to $2 million after the Diamondbacks contribution and deducting Petit's salary. I know it's math and some people refuse to do it but the number is much closer to two than three million.

 

4. This is not about money, not in the slightest. If Admin Beinfest found a better choice last night to close games for the Marlins, Jeffrey Loria would have already signed the check.

 

I don't pretend to know what the future holds for Julio and the Marlins, whether there's a divorce, he flourishes, he continues to fail, I can't see into the future like so many of the haters can. At least I admit it. At some point though he becomes so alienated from his teammates he can't be part of the team and will have to be dealt or DFA'd and we're getting closer and closer to just that kind of situation although I don't think it's imminent. Every player on the team has let his teammates down at one time or another, and frankly many times, that's the nature of sports and especially this one where only failing two out of three times at the plate is considered tremendously successful.

 

Not as an excuse for Julio because there are none, but the Marlins squandered a number of chances last night and then shut down, getting I think one hit in the final five innings. I don't hear anyone calling out Cabrera for going 0-4 and leaving men on base all night, or Willingham looking more like the bat boy at the plate than a starting leftfielder on a major league club. Failure and slumps are part of the game. Julio deserves more blame than most, but it can be spread around.

 

And after all, they still haven't lost, victory can still be theirs. For me the big dilemna is who pitches the remainder of the suspended game, not casting blame on the hater's favorite whipping boys.

 

 

* = edit

Whether the number is four, five, nine, two or whatever Julio will get more opportunities.

 

If people didn't see an improvement (note: see my comments in the game thread, I'm none too happy with what happened either or with Julio's performance to date) in his pitches last night, and frankly with his control, then it's just that you're so filled with hate for everythng Marlins, that you're blind to it.

 

He keeps throwing that bender for strikes like he showed last night and this will work itself out, or it won't and the FO will make another decision, but anyone who was watching could see last night a vast improvement, that is if they were open-minded.

 

It may be he's demoted to work things out - sixth, seventh inning - but what happened last night was a classic ninth inning scenario that has happened to every closer in the last 25 years. Walks the first guy, winds up scoring.

 

No doubt I'll be heaped with scorn for my comments but so be it. As unhappy with the result as the rest of you, I saw a much better fastball and a breaking pitch we hadn't seen in his first three appearances. Regardless of how some reported Tommy Hutton's comments, initially he sounded impressed by Julio's transformation, it should have been obvious to anyone he was moving in the right direction.

 

He's overthrowing. Trying too hard. But again, he's losing ballgames single-handedly and letting his team down and that can't go on and on. He's not doing his job and I'll be the first to say so.

 

Should he be demoted now? I don't think so but I understand everyone's frustration and I certainly share it. If that's the decision made, fine. But a few things pop to mind:

 

1. As much as the franchise-haters here want to personalize this and belittle and insult the same GM who with his staff set up what appears to be an otherwise very well constructed bullpen and who brought up Vanden Hurk for last night's game even though those same haters ridiculed that decision, Julio in their eyes defines all the work the front office has accomplished in the off-season. And those would be the same people who further insulted and belittled the FO for De Aza as well.

 

2. We gave up nothing for Julio, other than a perrenial AAA pitcher, whose underperformance is becoming legendary, who the Diamondbacks immediately sent to the minor leagues. To scream in capital letters we gave up a pitcher (OMG) is just more rhetoric. *If last night proved anything, it's that we have pitching coming out our ears.*

 

3. We're not paying Julio $3.5 million this season, the number is closer to $2 million after the Diamondbacks contribution and deducting Petit's salary. I know it's math and some people refuse to do it but the number is much closer to two than three million.

 

4. This is not about money, not in the slightest. If Admin Beinfest found a better choice last night to close games for the Marlins, Jeffrey Loria would have already signed the check.

 

I don't pretend to know what the future holds for Julio and the Marlins, whether there's a divorce, he flourishes, he continues to fail, I can't see into the future like so many of the haters can. At least I admit it. At some point though he becomes so alienated from his teammates he can't be part of the team and will have to be dealt or DFA'd and we're getting closer and closer to just that kind of situation although I don't think it's imminent. Every player on the team has let his teammates down at one time or another, and frankly many times, that's the nature of sports and especially this one where only failing two out of three times at the plate is considered tremendously successful.

 

Not as an excuse for Julio because there are none, but the Marlins squandered a number of chances last night and then shut down, getting I think one hit in the final five innings. I don't hear anyone calling out Cabrera for going 0-4 and leaving men on base all night, or Willingham looking more like the bat boy at the plate than a starting leftfielder on a major league club. Failure and slumps are part of the game. Julio deserves more blame than most, but it can be spread around.

 

And after all, they still haven't lost, victory can still be theirs. For me the big dilemna is who pitches the remainder of the suspended game, not casting blame on the hater's favorite whipping boys.

 

 

* = edit

great post. I agree for the most part. At this time (IMHO), the right thing to do is to move Julio from the closer position and let him work his issues out.

I can't believe how rude and disrespecting most of you posters are being. It's absolutely discouraging and something that this site is not known for. I'm absolutely disgusted by how most of you are going around displaying your opinion. It's disgusting and I'm ashamed to read threads like these especially from marlinbaseball.com.

 

We're 5-2 with a team put together by Beinfest of prospects. Beinfest has built this team that you're cheering for and he has brought in some GREAT band-aid closers who have won big in free agency the season after. He's bound to miss on a closer sooner or later. He's made one mistake and it's only been 7 f***ing games. He's built a great team, a GREAT team out of NOTHING. Florida is THIRD in the MLB in Runs scored, SECOND in hits and FIRST in RBI's. Who the hell has put together this unbelievable young team? Beinfest. This team is absolutely killing the ball out there and instead of celebrating the fact that we're making contact and scoring runs, we're calling for the head of our GM and Coach?

 

You guys are being f***ing ridiculous and I'm disgusted and hope severe punishment is thrown out towards the people who made those statements. I'm absolutely disgusted and ashamed.

Those who are saying this trade make sense in principle are still completely wrong.

 

Even if you ignore the fact that Julio is awful:

 

With multiple injuries to the starting rotation the Marlins trade away an arm that has potential to start. In return they receive an arm for a position that in essence did not need to be filled because a handful of arms already in the organization have pleased scouts and have actually earned the job in spring training. On top of that, the Marlins make this newly acquired player the third highest paid on the team, even though the skills he allegedly would bring to the team were already present within the depths of the organization.

 

 

That is ignoring the quality of either talent of course.

 

 

This trade made no sense from the beginning and I see no way of justifying it.

 

I can't argue with you on the fact that Julio is awful. He has been terrible so far and there is no getting around it. However, if you think that losing Petit is any type of loss or that he was or was every going to be a viable option to start for us then you are completely wrong. You say that you knew before the trade that Julio would suck. You must have also watched Petit pitch as well. How could you not have come to that same conclusion about him? He is a medicore pitcher at best with average stuff at best. Soft tossing right handers just don't succeed at this level very often. He is basically Brian Meadows with more hype because he was in the Mets farm system. He had no potential to start with the Marlins. He had obviously already been passed by Vanden Hurk (who was quite clearly not ready to pitch in the Majors last night) in the eyes of the FO, and was about to be passed by about 6 other pitchers currently in Jupiter.

 

The rationale behind the trade was solid. In the end we took a chance that cost us bascially nothing of any irreplacable value. You can find another Petit whenever you want. Julio may not be very good, time will tell, but i'm making that trade every time without blinking an eye.

Marlins2003,

 

I agree with most of what you say, but even though Julio looked a little better than he has in other appearances, he still was not effective. For a closer that is the only bottom line.

 

His command is not there and when he falls behind in the count, the hitters know a fastball is coming and smack the heck out of it. Don't forget that he was saved by Willingham's catch in the top of the ninth, or it could have been much worse.

 

I personally am not blaming Beinfest for anything. Julio has simply not worked out so far. He should be demoted to a less stressful and less meaningful role in the bullpen until he can consistently get batters out and not allow runs every time he comes into a game.

 

I also believe that he will eventually prove that he is much better than he has shown so far, but he should not be our closer until that happens. Just "keep running him out there" and blowing saves is not the right thing to do.

2003, this has nothing to do with hating the franchise, and I think the accusation is patently ridiculous. I think Admin Beinfest is a good GM who generally makes good decisions, but the obstinate refusal to admit that his evaluation of Julio was inaccurate is costing the team wins. The GM is supposed to give the team the best chance to win, and he's not doing that by marching out a reliever who has shown nothing but incompetence in performing his task. In that regard Beinfest is failing at his job. Just because Beinfest wants him to be successful, doesn't mean that he will be. And just because we want him to be successful, doesn't mean he will be.

 

My dissapointment stems from his arrogance in this matter. Why does Beinfest think that someone who hasn't performed in 2 years can magically turn it around? And why does he still maintain that view in the face of first-hand experience to the contrary? The only answer is arrogance. He believes that he's right, and it seems that he won't admit to being wrong until the team is six feet under ground. Finally, why should Beinfest jeopardize the outstanding performance of 24 guys, by putting his ego in front of their success? That's the question that kills me.

 

I'd also like to add that in other lines of work you aren't just handed a job at which you've consistently failed, and you certainly don't maintain your job by displaying consistently poor performance. The situation is ridiculous.

 

great post. I agree for the most part. At this time (IMHO), the right thing to do is to move Julio from the closer position and let him work his issues out.

I think that's all that most rational people are asking for. I'm willing to give Julio a chance to work out his problems at the ML level, but not when we have a lead that needs to be protected, and certainly not a one-run lead.

2003, this has nothing to do with hating the franchise, and I think the accusation is patently ridiculous. I think Admin Beinfest is a good GM who generally makes good decisions, but the obstinate refusal to admit that his evaluation of Julio was inaccurate is costing the team wins. The GM is supposed to give the team the best chance to win, and he's not doing that by marching out a reliever who has shown nothing but incompetence in performing his task. In that regard Beinfest is failing at his job. Just because Beinfest wants him to be successful, doesn't mean that he will be. And just because we want him to be successful, doesn't mean he will be.

 

My dissapointment stems from his arrogance in this matter. Why does Beinfest think that someone who hasn't performed in 2 years can magically turn it around? And why does he still maintain that view in the face of first-hand experience to the contrary? The only answer is arrogance. He believes that he's right, and it seems that he won't admit to being wrong until the team is six feet under ground. Finally, why should Beinfest jeopardize the outstanding performance of 24 guys, by putting his ego in front of their success? That's the question that kills me.

 

I'd also like to add that in other lines of work you aren't just handed a job at which you've consistently failed, and you certainly don't maintain your job by displaying consistently poor performance. The situation is ridiculous.

 

Beinfest will not admit and shouldn't admit being wrong after 7 games. This is baseball, and not college football. Is not the first reliever with this type of problems, and won't be the last.

 

"Why does Beinfest think that someone who hasn't performed in 2 years can magically turn it around?" see Todd Jones and JoBo

 

"I'd also like to add that in other lines of work you aren't just handed a job at which you've consistently failed, and you certainly don't maintain your job by displaying consistently poor performance." I agree with this. Hopefuly this a learning experience for the future.

I can't believe how rude and disrespecting most of you posters are being. It's absolutely discouraging and something that this site is not known for. I'm absolutely disgusted by how most of you are going around displaying your opinion. It's disgusting and I'm ashamed to read threads like these especially from marlinbaseball.com.

 

We're 5-2 with a team put together by Beinfest of prospects. Beinfest has built this team that you're cheering for and he has brought in some GREAT band-aid closers who have won big in free agency the season after. He's bound to miss on a closer sooner or later. He's made one mistake and it's only been 7 f***ing games. He's built a great team, a GREAT team out of NOTHING. Florida is THIRD in the MLB in Runs scored, SECOND in hits and FIRST in RBI's. Who the hell has put together this unbelievable young team? Beinfest. This team is absolutely killing the ball out there and instead of celebrating the fact that we're making contact and scoring runs, we're calling for the head of our GM and Coach?

 

You guys are being f***ing ridiculous and I'm disgusted and hope severe punishment is thrown out towards the people who made those statements. I'm absolutely disgusted and ashamed.

I agree... No need for personal insults over a difference of opinions.

him pitching in the 7th or 8th is just as scary, there won't be any save opportunitites. He needs to go to long relief.

 

about time someone in the clubhouse did something. However, it should have been to fredi, not julio.

 

But then again, at this point fredi seems completley clueless.

My dissapointment stems from his arrogance in this matter. Why does Beinfest think that someone who hasn't performed in 2 years can magically turn it around? And why does he still maintain that view in the face of first-hand experience to the contrary? The only answer is arrogance. He believes that he's right, and it seems that he won't admit to being wrong until the team is six feet under ground. Finally, why should Beinfest jeopardize the outstanding performance of 24 guys, by putting his ego in front of their success? That's the question that kills me.

Julio had an okay year last year (4.23 ERA / 1.32 WHIP / .210 BAA) and I think Beinfest expected Julio to be helped by the PPS dimensions. Obviously things haven't worked out the first 7 games but so far we've been fortunate in that his implosions have cost us only one game.. maybe two depending on the outcome of the 2-2 game.

 

I doubt Julio will continue closing.