i have been a member here for like a year and never posted here but i feel very strongly on this...as i don't think i've ever seen a situation like this before givin all the homegrown great arms we have...i posted this in the wrong thread so here it is again:

 

i sure wish there was something we could do as fans to stop this disaster in the making. to keep putting this fruitcake out on the mound is suicide! freddie is just being the puppet that loria wants! if they pull julio now it would prove that management has made one of the bigger mistakes in recent memory. they paid this trash 3.5 million (third higest on the team) to blow saves? why do you think this is his 4th team? :banghead

 

it's so hard to be a marlins fan sometimes...

 

 

It's hard to be a Marlins fan because a guy had a couple of bad outings? Man, you shouldn't be a fan then!

 

By the way, as 2003 pointed out and many of you still seem to be ignoring, we aren't paying Julio 3.5 million. The number is closer to 2 million. Or did I miss something about the deal?

 

 

haha....but we gave away an all star in Petit! OMG, it's the worst trade of all time!

 

I will laugh so hard when everyone is wrong about this trade and it works out fine. You think Julio wants to go into his contract year like this? He'll get it turned around!

 

 

 

please don't misunderstand....what i meant was compared to other teams with the insane high budgets who can keep their great players...it's tough. i was at the 2003 world series and beckett was my favorite player only to see him traded cause lowell was to much money. and what do you think's gonna happen when miggy becomes the 100 million dollar man? you think were gonna keep him?

 

i would have loved to see todd jones or borowski stay as our closer but alas once again the budget simply doesn't allow it...thats what i meant by what i said.

I don't know if you are going to see this in the papers tomorrow or not, but things got heated inside the clubhouse between Julio and "a member of the starting rotation"

 

good times

 

this was probably olsen. if i were olsen i'd shut the hell up. julio would break him in two if they got into it.

 

plus, this is no way to help out a teammate. regardless of how funny you think this is or how little you respect julio as a baseball player, it is not professional to act this way.

 

olsen will have a period in his career where he'll get smoked by hitters. in fact, if i recall correctly, he got smoked a lot early last season.

 

olsen should shut his arrogant ass up.

 

be supportive of your teammate.

 

and this goes to all of you that are being completely ridiculous and offensive to your fellow marlins fans and the front office. you need to take a chill pill.

Not much more I am at liberty to say but this stems from what Julio did or did not do once returning to the dugout/clubhouse. So don't jump all over Olsen on this one.

I don't know if you are going to see this in the papers tomorrow or not, but things got heated inside the clubhouse between Julio and "a member of the starting rotation"

 

good times

 

this was probably olsen. if i were olsen i'd shut the hell up. julio would break him in two if they got into it.

 

plus, this is no way to help out a teammate. regardless of how funny you think this is or how little you respect julio as a baseball player, it is not professional to act this way.

 

olsen will have a period in his career where he'll get smoked by hitters. in fact, if i recall correctly, he got smoked a lot early last season.

 

olsen should shut his arrogant ass up.

 

be supportive of your teammate.

 

and this goes to all of you that are being completely ridiculous and offensive to your fellow marlins fans and the front office. you need to take a chill pill.

Not much more I am at liberty to say but this stems from what Julio did or did not do once returning to the dugout/clubhouse. So don't jump all over Olsen on this one.

 

still sounds ridiculous beyond belief.

I don't know if you are going to see this in the papers tomorrow or not, but things got heated inside the clubhouse between Julio and "a member of the starting rotation"

 

good times

 

this was probably olsen. if i were olsen i'd shut the hell up. julio would break him in two if they got into it.

 

plus, this is no way to help out a teammate. regardless of how funny you think this is or how little you respect julio as a baseball player, it is not professional to act this way.

 

olsen will have a period in his career where he'll get smoked by hitters. in fact, if i recall correctly, he got smoked a lot early last season.

 

olsen should shut his arrogant ass up.

 

be supportive of your teammate.

 

and this goes to all of you that are being completely ridiculous and offensive to your fellow marlins fans and the front office. you need to take a chill pill.

I almost never agree with you but I do in this case.

 

What he did or did not do? What does that mean? He didn't slam his glove hard enough or didn't take a bat to the water cooler? I wish I knew waht you (Ramp) are talking about.

Ramp we made a deal for Benitez and two things happened that killed it and you know what they are. One, all of a sudden the Giants GM realized that their wonder boy Brian Wilson (??) wasn't going to cut it as closer (he wound up in the minors if I remember the opening roster) and Benitez was throwing better and better with every outing which in turn kept driving his price/value up up up, and second, that ownership there nixed trading Benitez, so let's at least be accurate and put things in the proper context. That was remarkably unfair to present one side of the facts that way.

 

I guess you want me to retort all your foolishness so I'll have to.

 

If you didn't see a breaking ball from Julio last night we haven't seen since he arrived you are blind. I wasn't speaking directly to strikes although his location was improving, I was referencing him finally getting that breaking ball over, the one which in his previous outings was always way outside because it wasn't breaking. I call that an improvement.

 

"Perrenial" (as in "I can't find anything else nasty to say so I'll word pick his multi-paragraph thousand word post") for example two years in AA, now three years in AAA wherein in 2005 he posted a stellar 9.20 ERA at Norfolk and 4.28 last. And so far with the Sidewinders his ERA is a fabulous 9.00. We all saw the guy pitch for parts of two seasons Ramp, the rest of us know what he is even if you can't admit it.

 

And talk about misusing "facts" by making such a big deal that he's the third highest paid player on the team at a little over $2 million? I'm 5'10", I'd play center on a pygmy basketball team, doesn't mean I can play basketball. That he's third or ninth or first means nothing on a team that has gone thrown the radical rookie rebuilding program this one has. Absolutely nothing. Funny I don't hear alot ever mentioning that payroll doubled this season from last. But to be fair, that's not relevant either but at least I'm willing to admit it.

 

As for the lack of offense, and pointing out (NOT "calling out") other players who had unproductive nights, I'm really sorry I hurt your feelings about supposedly picking on your poor Joshiepoo. If you missed the point that games are won and lost on both sides of the game I think that says more about you than what I wrote.

 

Anythng else?

 

Perhaps you'll never be convinced the deal made sense but at the same if you want to be intellectually honest you have to lot at what happened to Julio a) in May and June of '07 after an eerily similar beginning in April and b) his overall performance wonce he got out of New York.

I know you are thinking/typing fast (we all are), but you'll have to rephrase.

 

 

If you are talking about that allusion you made earlier about the similar slow start Julio had in Arizona followed by an ostensible "recovery," then a brief blanket consideration of mine would be that it is nothing more than a gross coincidence. If you are implying that the same trend is likely, what you are arguing is borderline fallacious.

 

 

He is to improve from here (and he is showing signs of it already), but nothing he has done in the past indicates that he will reach a level worthy of him pitching in that role (and also justifying the trade itself in general).

 

lot = look

 

wonce = once

 

look at April May June 2006 gamelog

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/game...9&year=2006

 

He starts out with a 27.00 ERA first week of April. By the end of the month it's down to 7.71. In May he post a 1.42 ERA, in June 2.57 ERA.

What is the average salary of a Major leaguer?

 

The money issue is ridiculous beyond belief

sweet mary....

 

forget money, forget clubhouse arguments, forget Freddi and Beinfest and ego, forget all that.

 

 

all that some of us are saying is let's not use him when the game is on the line WHILE HE'S TRYING TO WORK OUT HIS PROBLEMS.

 

Is that some kind of ridiculous request?

 

and don't give me the "you gotta put him in pressure situations" nonsense. Every situation is a pressure situation for him right now. I want to see him get outs when we're up 4 or 5 runs in the 6th inning before I ever see him in the 9th leading by a run again.

It's been said upthread, but I'll just reemphasize the point that Julio has not only done nothing to earn the closer's role on this team, but over the last 5 years, he has pretty much done nothing to suggest he should be a closer. I don't know who decided he should be a closer, but it makes no sense. His numbers place him at about the level of a slightly below average middle reliever. And he has done absolutely nothing to earn our patience. The "he's our man" comment is something that is usually said about a guy who's been there for years, who's been reliable...a guy who's earned your faith. Julio has been anything but reliable and has done absolutely nothing to earn our faith. The only reason to stick by him is the money factor, but that really makes even less sense. Don't compound the error we made in acquiring him, by throwing him out there in tight situations and potentially letting him ruin our entire season. And when you consider how well the rest of our bullpen is performing the whole thing is almost comical.

Ramp we made a deal for Benitez and two things happened that killed it and you know what they are. One, all of a sudden the Giants GM realized that their wonder boy Brian Wilson (??) wasn't going to cut it as closer (he wound up in the minors if I remember the opening roster) and Benitez was throwing better and better with every outing which in turn kept driving his price/value up up up, and second, that ownership there nixed trading Benitez, so let's at least be accurate and put things in the proper context. That was remarkably unfair to present one side of the facts that way.

 

I guess you want me to retort all your foolishness so I'll have to.

 

If you didn't see a breaking ball from Julio last night we haven't seen since he arrived you are blind. I wasn't speaking directly to strikes although his location was improving, I was referencing him finally getting that breaking ball over, the one which in his previous outings was always way outside because it wasn't breaking. I call that an improvement.

 

"Perrenial" (as in "I can't find anything else nasty to say so I'll word pick his multi-paragraph thousand word post") for example two years in AA, now three years in AAA wherein in 2005 he posted a stellar 9.20 ERA at Norfolk and 4.28 last. And so far with the Sidewinders his ERA is a fabulous 9.00. We all saw the guy pitch for parts of two seasons Ramp, the rest of us know what he is even if you can't admit it.

 

And talk about misusing "facts" by making such a big deal that he's the third highest paid player on the team at a little over $2 million? I'm 5'10", I'd play center on a pygmy basketball team, doesn't mean I can play basketball. That he's third or ninth or first means nothing on a team that has gone thrown the radical rookie rebuilding program this one has. Absolutely nothing. Funny I don't hear alot ever mentioning that payroll doubled this season from last. But to be fair, that's not relevant either but at least I'm willing to admit it.

 

As for the lack of offense, and pointing out (NOT "calling out") other players who had unproductive nights, I'm really sorry I hurt your feelings about supposedly picking on your poor Joshiepoo. If you missed the point that games are won and lost on both sides of the game I think that says more about you than what I wrote.

 

Anything else?

The Marlins did not acquire Armando Benitez when they had the chance because of money issues. It's what I believe. It's what I know.

 

I said Julio looked better last night, but he everything was still crushed at the plate. He looked the best he has since being a Marlin last week and he still was terrible. He got absolutely bailed out twice in that inning. Once by the fact that Hardy's ball bounced over the wall and the second by Josh Willingham making an outstanding catch.

 

You think I skew stats? You said Petit had 2 years of AA ball. He had 1 full season and 1 year in which he had 2 (TWO) starts there. And as for AAA. He had 1 full season there. In 2005, he had 3 (THREE) starts there. Come on, you can do better than that. Really, I had no problem trading Petit. In a system as arm heavy as this one, he wasn't one of the top 5-10 but, I do have a problem trading a 22 year old pitcher for no reason. Sorry but I refuse to believe there was a need to go out and trade for Jorge Julio. He could turn around today, go 60 straight scoreless innings and I still would believe it was the wrong move.

 

On a team that is crying poverty, the fact that we are making this retread the third highest player on the team means alot. We acquired Petit over our CF of the future in Milledge because of money. We took Miguel Cabrera to arbitration over $700,000. We are a cheap franchise. You bet your ass $2mil+ means more to this team than almost any others. And bravo, we doubled our payroll and most of that was because we kept Cabrera and Willis. Excuse me if I don't get on my knees and bow down to the ownership.

 

You didn't "hurt my feelings" talking about Josh Willingham. I'm not a little girl, but it's awesome you would think that way. It irks me that you "pointed out" that Cabs and Hammer had bad games at the plate in order to prove your point that it's a team game. Well Hammer bailed out Julio last night. When is Julio going to bail out Hammer?

 

Anything else?

Ramp :thumbup

Other than this "alleged clubhouse incident" between Julio and "pitcher X," have there been any other examples of how the rest of the team feels about running Julio out there? Has anyone been to the games? What do you see in the body language of the rest of the team when Julio is out there? Are they supporting him, slapping him on the butt, anything at all?

Other than this "alleged clubhouse incident" between Julio and "pitcher X," have there been any other examples of how the rest of the team feels about running Julio out there? Has anyone been to the games? What do you see in the body language of the rest of the team when Julio is out there? Are they supporting him, slapping him on the butt, anything at all?

Who would even do that? Honestly, I think they are very pissed. When Horror-Hey Who-Lio comes in the players look like they are thinking "Here we go again". Hopefully I will never get a chance again to look at the players expressions because no more Who-Lio.

They are all trying to be as supportive as possible, but at the same time they're frustrated as hell too. They are all rooting for him, don't get me wrong. Hopefully things came to a head last night, but I suspect they haven't.

They are all trying to be as supportive as possible, but at the same time they're frustrated as hell too. They are all rooting for him, don't get me wrong. Hopefully things came to a head last night, but I suspect they haven't.

One more BS and he'll be demoted. Thats my guess.

I can't believe how rude and disrespecting most of you posters are being. It's absolutely discouraging and something that this site is not known for. I'm absolutely disgusted by how most of you are going around displaying your opinion. It's disgusting and I'm ashamed to read threads like these especially from marlinbaseball.com.

 

We're 5-2 with a team put together by Beinfest of prospects. Beinfest has built this team that you're cheering for and he has brought in some GREAT band-aid closers who have won big in free agency the season after. He's bound to miss on a closer sooner or later. He's made one mistake and it's only been 7 f***ing games. He's built a great team, a GREAT team out of NOTHING. Florida is THIRD in the MLB in Runs scored, SECOND in hits and FIRST in RBI's. Who the hell has put together this unbelievable young team? Beinfest. This team is absolutely killing the ball out there and instead of celebrating the fact that we're making contact and scoring runs, we're calling for the head of our GM and Coach?

 

You guys are being f***ing ridiculous and I'm disgusted and hope severe punishment is thrown out towards the people who made those statements. I'm absolutely disgusted and ashamed.

 

Are you kidding me? Disgusted and ashamed?

 

Because our team is doing well we can't criticize a bad move or player? Then what the hell are we on this message board for?

 

Yes, we CAN criticize a bad move. Despite our bullpen being littered with potential closers, Bienfest goes out and GIVES Jorge a closer spot. GIVES. Julio did nothing with the Marlins to earn his job. What about that quote he made after De Aza was named the starting CFer? Something like; "This is an organization of opportunity for young players. If a player goes out and wins a job, and we GIVE that job to another player, then we are no longer an organization of opportunity." What Bienfest and Fredi are doing now goes against everything The Florida Marlin Organization SUPPOSEDLY stands for. Lee Gardener went out there and won that job. Matt Lindstrom went out there and won that job. Henry Owens went out there and won that job. (I can't believe I'm about to say this) Randy Messenger went out there and won that job. Even Pinto and Gregg have shown more than Julio. Julio was GIVEN that job.

 

Now, it's obvious to me, Jorge is not pleased with his performance is trying to hard to correct it. However, there comes a point where effort just doesn't cut it anymore, and something must be done to stop the bleeding. And, IMO, we are rapidly aproaching that point.

 

We are on this message board to discuss the Marlins. To praise the players who are playing at a high level. To criticize a player who isn't performing. To second guess managerial decisions. To rejoice and enjoy a thrilling victory. To mourn a crushing defeat. To analyze and put every a Marlins move under a microscope. This is what we as Marlins fans do. This is what we as sports fans do.

I believe he was critical of the name-calling and epithet-hurling that appeared in this thread last night and has now been removed (this is a sanitized version of the thread). He wasn't speaking (I don't believe) to silence anyone's opinion rather the decorum last night.

when it comes down to it I think everyone here can agree Julio should at least not be closing games or even in any kind of late inning pressure role. capeesh.

I can't believe how rude and disrespecting most of you posters are being. It's absolutely discouraging and something that this site is not known for. I'm absolutely disgusted by how most of you are going around displaying your opinion. It's disgusting and I'm ashamed to read threads like these especially from marlinbaseball.com.

 

We're 5-2 with a team put together by Beinfest of prospects. Beinfest has built this team that you're cheering for and he has brought in some GREAT band-aid closers who have won big in free agency the season after. He's bound to miss on a closer sooner or later. He's made one mistake and it's only been 7 f***ing games. He's built a great team, a GREAT team out of NOTHING. Florida is THIRD in the MLB in Runs scored, SECOND in hits and FIRST in RBI's. Who the hell has put together this unbelievable young team? Beinfest. This team is absolutely killing the ball out there and instead of celebrating the fact that we're making contact and scoring runs, we're calling for the head of our GM and Coach?

 

You guys are being f***ing ridiculous and I'm disgusted and hope severe punishment is thrown out towards the people who made those statements. I'm absolutely disgusted and ashamed.

 

Are you kidding me? Disgusted and ashamed?

 

Because our team is doing well we can't criticize a bad move or player? Then what the hell are we on this message board for?

 

Yes, we CAN criticize a bad move. Despite our bullpen being littered with potential closers, Bienfest goes out and GIVES Jorge a closer spot. GIVES. Julio did nothing with the Marlins to earn his job. What about that quote he made after De Aza was named the starting CFer? Something like; "This is an organization of opportunity for young players. If a player goes out and wins a job, and we GIVE that job to another player, then we are no longer are an organization of opportunity." What Bienfest and Fredi are doing now goes against everything The Florida Marlin Organization SUPPOSEDLY stands for. Lee Gardener went out there and won that job. Matt Lindstrom went out there and won that job. Henry Owens went out there and won that job. (I can't believe I'm about to say this) Randy Messenger went out there and won that job. Even Pinto and Gregg have shown more than Julio. Julio was GIVEN that job.

 

Now, it's obvious to me, Jorge is not pleased with his performance is trying to hard to correct it. However, there comes a point where effort just doesn't cut it anymore, and something must be done to stop the bleeding. And, IMO, we are rapidly approaching that point.

 

We are on this message board to discuss the Marlins. To praise the players who are playing at a high level. To criticize a player who isn't performing. To second guess managerial decisions. To rejoice and enjoy are thrilling victory. To mourn a crushing defeat. To analyze and put every a Marlins move under a microscope. This is what we as Marlins fans do. This what we as sports fans do.

 

Perfect. Absolutely perfect.

 

:notworthy

when it comes down to it I think everyone here can agree Julio should at least not be closing games or even in any kind of late inning pressure role. capeesh.

 

yup.

 

some ppl here have been pretty uncivil, though.

when it comes down to it I think everyone here can agree Julio should at least not be closing games or even in any kind of late inning pressure role. capeesh.

 

yup.

 

some ppl here have been pretty uncivil, though.

what i dont like is how some certain members were basically rooting for him to fail...and you know what, that is your right as a fan to do...but i dont want to hear it...as long as julio wears teal and black, i will support him and hope he does well...

when it comes down to it I think everyone here can agree Julio should at least not be closing games or even in any kind of late inning pressure role. capeesh.

 

yup.

 

some ppl here have been pretty uncivil, though.

what i dont like is how some certain members were basically rooting for him to fail...and you know what, that is your right as a fan to do...but i dont want to hear it...as long as julio wears teal and black, i will support him and hope he does well...

 

 

That's a good point Jimmy. There were at least 4 ppl really praying he would bust.

 

Unfortunately, it's reached the point where Julio's ineffectiveness is becoming borderline predictable and its having a huge impact on the results of the game.

 

 

But point well taken. As Marlins fans (and diehards at that), we should root for the home team. All of them.

when it comes down to it I think everyone here can agree Julio should at least not be closing games or even in any kind of late inning pressure role. capeesh.

 

yup.

 

some ppl here have been pretty uncivil, though.

I didnt read through all of that, but I can guess it's the usual suspect

that's ridiculous Don... no one wanted him to fail

Hey, Jorge, thanks for making us wait 20 hours to lose instead of picking a win last night! :notworthy

 

Without Julio, we're 7-1 and first in the division. Instead we're in 3rd place. Lovely.

Julio and Fredi better get a "LOT" of hate mail if we lose this series! :mad