Laugh all you want.

 

Not only is he not an all-star, the only word to describe Hanley's play at SS is awful. And it's getting worse not better as the season goes on. He is without doubt the worst or at the very least one of the three worst (defensive) starting shortstops in baseball. Bring back Gonzalez and watch Miggy's play improve and the whole infield for that matter.

 

A week ago I suggested the Fish do the PC thing and wait until the off-season to move Ramirez to the outfield. After sitting through tonight's game and watching Ramirez stink up the joint once again it's time do something. I'm not a stathead, everyone knows that, but it's impossible to ignore Ramirez zone and range ratings. He's outgrown the position just like Miggy. Too bad there's *not* two 3Bs in baseball.

 

Amezaga had a good game tonight, it would be easy to say just plug AA in next to his buddy Miggy, god knows Admin Beinfest thinks AA is the best SS on the team, as do others, but I'm not convinced he can play the next 110+/- games without melting down. Not after a full off-season in the Mexican League. The Reds are going nowhere, they are already DOA. Gonzo is having a good year at the plate, he's playing GG defense and he's reasonably inexpensive (insert here: if you have a better idea for a really MLB quality SS be my guest and suggest him instead).

 

Move Hanley to CF and don't look back. Worry about DeAza and his feelings later. Or trade Willingham (not a move I would make or endorse) and plug him into left. But I'm convinced Miggy can play a better quality 3B if he knows he has someone next to him who is capable of covering more than three feet to either side and who can at least hit your catcher standing on homeplate with game on the line.

 

I know the Hanley is God Squad will be flaming me monentarily but call a spade a spade, the guy has already cost this team too many games with his atrocious play. Complain all you want about AA or gang up on Borchard or your favorite whipping boy, the fact is what Ramirez gives with his bat he takes away with his glove.

 

Time for a chance. For his sake. For the team's sake.

 

I never thought I'd be saying this but we need Sea Bass. And I bet he's traded this July. The Reds will be 20 games out by the All-Star game.

three words: laugh out loud

 

What did he do tonight that got your panties all in a wad? Was it the throw home that Olivo needs to catch? Or the tag on Delgado? Maybe I missed a terrible error in there somewhere, and forgive me if I did.

 

I have no clue what you want them to do with Hanley. Move him to CF? In the middle of the season? Seems kind of rash and it isn't as if he is the only Marlins player with a case of the dropsies and wingsies.

 

Hanley has the ability to be a very good SS. He is far from that right now but I see no reason why they should/would/could move him. It's too bad Robert Andino never panned out, but at this point, unless they move Hanley to CF, there is nowhere to put him.

 

As for SeaBass, I don't think you have watched a Reds game this season. He has LOST A STEP. His defensive rating is only better than Hanley's. He has a whole bunch of errors too. Just ask Reds fans what they think of SeaBass being a gold glover and they will laugh in your face. It's true.

 

edit: Both players have 8 errors. Gonzalez's fielding percentage is .03 better than Hanley's. Their zone ratings are both in the bottom half of the league.

 

SeaBass ain't the SeaBass of old.

Frankly Ramp I'm surprised you and Hanley haven't made plans to spend the weekend together on Fire Island.

 

You want to laugh out loud, be my guest, it's just your youth and inexperience showing. No one is allowed to say anything about your lover or "they have their panties in a wad". The guy is terrible and getting worse by the day and if you refuse to see it or anyone who dares say so all you can do is ridicule them.

 

As for Gonzalez' play this season, Ramirez couldn't carry his jock. I think it's you who hasn't seen a Reds game. Yeah, he's not the demon he was three years ago but he can still cover twice the ground Ramirez can. He can still make plays that shortstops are supposed to make. And if you have a better idea at shortstop do so but it isn't HR. You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig.

Alex Gonzalez has been f***ing terrible this year. Most overrated defender I have ever seen.

 

You can have him back, meanwhile I want Felipe Lopez back.

 

As for SeaBass, I don't think you have watched a Reds game this season. He has LOST A STEP. His defensive rating is only better than Hanley's. He has a whole bunch of errors too. Just ask Reds fans what they think of SeaBass being a gold glover and they will laugh in your face. It's true.

 

edit: Both players have 8 errors. Gonzalez's fielding percentage is .03 better than Hanley's. Their zone ratings are both in the bottom half of the league.

 

SeaBass ain't the SeaBass of old.

He has lost 3 or 4 steps. He has hardly made the difficult plays look easy, and he has booted routine plays.

Ya I was getting ready to say. Seabass, as much as I love him, is strugga-liiiinnnng(copyright Tony Reali) this year with the glove.

 

The play at the plate with Olivo(from what I have surmised) had more to do with Olivo being 10 times more defensively inept himself than Hanley.

 

Hanley went through the basic first season of a young SS with the glove last year. Its his second year.

 

BTW, Hanley has been better defensively this year than Seabass and his first two seasons overall are better than Seabass as well.

 

Frankly Ramp I'm surprised you and Hanley haven't made plans to spend the weekend together on Fire Island.

 

You want to laugh out loud, be my guest, it's just your youth and inexperience showing. No one is allowed to say anything about your lover or "they have their panties in a wad".

 

Oh come on 2003, you know Hammer is the only one Ramp snuggles with at night and his only one true love.

I'll throw my four words into it: I miss Perry Hill.

The pick a better player. Be my guest. I'm open to any player who will be legitimately available and can play the position.

 

The Sea Bass I've seen (maybe five games) is still trying to make the impossible happen and making errors on plays Ramirez won't bother to even attempt. HR makes errors on the easiest plays, plays. Airmailing throws to first, play like tonight to home, easy DPs.

 

But like I said come up with a better option than Sea Bass. Fine with me.

I'll throw my four words into it: I miss Perry Hill.

 

And I think you just brought up the main reason our defense has been lacking.

 

Cabs being tons of fun doesnt help, but IMO he will still be one of the better defenders at 3B and will probably slim down as the season goes along.

 

Hanley will be fine.

 

Andy Fox just needs to get into the swing of things, maybe do a vulcan mind meld with Hill. But the defense is sure to improve, even Hanley who 2003 loathes.

So Spike you blame Olivo for Ramirez throwing the ball five feet up the line?

 

You are unbelievable.

What a great thread.

This thread belongs in the hall of fame forum right under the one from "bigfishfan"

that talked about how the marlins dream of a world series ended cuz they

were down in the series 2-1. As greatful as I am for alex's homer in game

4 and his awesome glove, He can't sniff Hanley when it comes to

hitting and Hanley still has time to get better at defense.

By the way I don't "loathe" the guy. I'm not a sicko like Spike. I think Hanley is a great player who has a chance at a great career. Just not at shortstop. To say I believe otherwise is a lie.

If its a defensive gaffe on either Hanley or Olivo, even common sense would say its more likely that its Olivos fault.

 

That and what I read in the game thread.

 

I'm not a sicko like Spike

How am I a sicko?

The pick a better player. Be my guest. I'm open to any player who will be legitimately available and can play the position.

 

The Sea Bass I've seen (maybe five games) is still trying to make the impossible happen and making errors on plays Ramirez won't bother to even attempt. HR makes errors on the easiest plays, plays. Airmailing throws to first, play like tonight to home, easy DPs.

 

But like I said come up with a better option than Sea Bass. Fine with me.

I don't know what games you are watching. He is booting routine ground balls.

 

He's looking like Royce Clayton.

ok spike we know we know no need to even say it

If its a defensive gaffe on either Hanley or Olivo, even common sense would say its more likely that its Olivos fault.

 

That and what I read in the game thread.

 

Funny the scorer saw it otherwise.

 

I don;t know know what the tv or radio guys said, but it was clearly the throw that was way off the mark not to mention to the wrong side of the plate. It was after all a force play.

I just think its silly to go all frankensteins monster on Hanleys defense multiple times a week.

 

Hes 22, most young SS have issues with the glove their first few seasons. Seabass was no different. Heck, in his 2nd season, he was probably the worst defensive SS in baseball. He improved.

 

Funny the scorer saw it otherwise.

 

And they are 100% totally all the time always correct.

I've mentioned Hanley's ineptness at shortstop three or four times this season as opposed to your hundreds or thousands (who can count???) of times regarding Mitre and Olivo.

 

Please be my guest, go search how many times I've brought this up and find even one time where I find fault with Hanley offensively or don't say he's a great player who I think has physically outgrown his position.

i think there's no doubt the defense in some way must be addressed. Olivo?s awful. miggy is not consistent, and hanley and uggla are below average.

I've mentioned Hanley's ineptness at shortstop three or four times this season as opposed to your hundreds or thousands (who can count???) of times regarding Mitre and Olivo.

 

Please be my guest, go search how many times I've brought this up and find even one time where I find fault with Hanley offensively or don't say he's a great player who I think has physically outgrown his position.

 

Hey man it dont bother me. But to say you have only mentioned it 3 or 4 times is a fib and you know it.

 

And I still dont know why I am a "sicko"

This isn't old baseball anymore... defense is WILDLY insignificant in relation to offense and pitching in today's game. The difference between a below average defensive shortstop, and one of the best defensive shortstops in the league is maybe 7 - 15 runs a season, and that's a big maybe. The difference between a below average offensive shortstop and one of the best is about 55 runs. I'll take Hanley's outrageous bat and sometimes suspect defense any day.

 

The kid has been flat out ridiculous at the plate... give him a break, I mean, damn.

but it was clearly the throw that was way off the mark not to mention to the wrong side of the plate. It was after all a force play.

 

It wasn't a force play, they had runners at first and third. The throw wasn't perfect but it should have been caught.

If its a defensive gaffe on either Hanley or Olivo, even common sense would say its more likely that its Olivos fault.

 

That and what I read in the game thread.

 

Funny the scorer saw it otherwise.

 

I don;t know know what the tv or radio guys said, but it was clearly the throw that was way off the mark not to mention to the wrong side of the plate. It was after all a force play.

 

I was at the game tonight and from my angle, Olivo should have caught that ball.

 

Still, Hanley is lacking defensively. There is no question about that. But there is no need to rush him into another position, especially one he is unfamiliar with in the middle of the season.

but it was clearly the throw that was way off the mark not to mention to the wrong side of the plate. It was after all a force play.

 

It wasn't a force play, they had runners at first and third. The throw wasn't perfect but it should have been caught.

Then why did Hanley pick up the throwing error? Why did the scorer decide to change it from E-2 to E-6?

 

On the replay, it was pretty obvious to me that it was a bad throw. It was way to the inside and would've been very difficult to catch with the runner as close as he was.

It wasn't way to the inside, Olivo had to stretch to his left. The ball richochet's off Olivo's glove. Again, it wasn't a good throw, but it should have been caught. And if it's caught (and held on too), it's an out.