Olivo couldn't catch a cold. It wasn't a great throw but it should have been caught.

 

And Marlins2003, I expect more of you than name calling, but I see you have resorted to that.

 

Alex Gonzalez is nowhere near the Alex of old. Seriously, watch a game. He is just as bad as Hanley is out there.

 

Maybe if we had a real SS option we could move Hanley to CF, but we don't. You don't move him for Alfredo f***ing Amezaga. That's absolutely ridiculous. And pardon me for thinking Hanley Ramirez is going to be the next great shortstop when all is said and done. He's a special player but I do enjoy your new found hatred for him.

 

and lol to youth and experience to why my points are refuted. Age plays no role in knowing baseball.

Maybe if we had a real SS option we could move Hanley to CF, but we don't. You don't move him for Alfredo f***ing Amezaga. That's absolutely ridiculous. And pardon me for thinking Hanley Ramirez is going to be the next great shortstop when all is said and done. He's a special player but I do enjoy your new found hatred for him.

 

Next great hitting shortstop, no question (isn't he already there?). But fielding? He has taken a step back this season. While he has improved making throws (fewer double clutches, more accurate in general), it doesn't make up for the range he seems to have lost this season. I'm not convinced he will ever be a good fielding shortstop as he settles into the middle of the lineup.

 

Without question he is special. The most talented hitter to make his rookie campaign in a Marlins uniform since Miguel Cabrera. Which is why calls for him to be moved to a completely new position in the middle of a season are foolish. And like you say, if we had a real SS the Marlins should think about moving to CF. But not until of the offseason.

Our entire infield slow and heavy, but our biggest defensive liabilities IMO are at 2nd and Catcher.

 

I dont have a problem with the 2003's suggestion, its a rather practical and possible solution to our defensive woes.

 

Still, our first priority should be the catcher.

Uggla is an above average fielder again this year, dont know why you think he is a liability.

No Offense Marlins2003 but I stopped reading once you wrote that because of Hanley that Cabs has been bad at 3b. How does Hanley's play determine how Cabrera plays 3b? I guess you can argue that maybe he plays a little more in the hole? I really dont understand what your argument could possibly be.

 

I know you have more baseball knowledge than that.

Maybe if we had a real SS option we could move Hanley to CF, but we don't. You don't move him for Alfredo f***ing Amezaga. That's absolutely ridiculous. And pardon me for thinking Hanley Ramirez is going to be the next great shortstop when all is said and done. He's a special player but I do enjoy your new found hatred for him.

 

Next great hitting shortstop, no question (isn't he already there?). But fielding? He has taken a step back this season. While he has improved making throws (fewer double clutches, more accurate in general), it doesn't make up for the range he seems to have lost this season. I'm not convinced he will ever be a good fielding shortstop as he settles into the middle of the lineup.

 

Without question he is special. The most talented hitter to make his rookie campaign in a Marlins uniform since Miguel Cabrera. Which is why calls for him to be moved to a completely new position in the middle of a season are foolish. And like you say, if we had a real SS the Marlins should think about moving to CF. But not until of the offseason.

Hanley will improve. I believe most of these errors are based on focus and not arm angle or ability. I guess that means I am some kind of Hanley fanboy but that's what I truly believe. I would be absolutely shocked if he was moved from SS within the next calender year and I would be very disappointed if that was the case.

 

I'll try to do some sloothing tomorrow to grab a quote or two about Hanley from those who actually make decisions like the one suggested in the beginning of this thread.

Uggla is an above average fielder again this year, dont know why you think he is a liability.

 

what team have you been watching, above average??? how???

4 words

 

end this f*****g thread

Maybe if we had a real SS option we could move Hanley to CF, but we don't. You don't move him for Alfredo f***ing Amezaga. That's absolutely ridiculous. And pardon me for thinking Hanley Ramirez is going to be the next great shortstop when all is said and done. He's a special player but I do enjoy your new found hatred for him.

 

Next great hitting shortstop, no question (isn't he already there?). But fielding? He has taken a step back this season. While he has improved making throws (fewer double clutches, more accurate in general), it doesn't make up for the range he seems to have lost this season. I'm not convinced he will ever be a good fielding shortstop as he settles into the middle of the lineup.

 

Without question he is special. The most talented hitter to make his rookie campaign in a Marlins uniform since Miguel Cabrera. Which is why calls for him to be moved to a completely new position in the middle of a season are foolish. And like you say, if we had a real SS the Marlins should think about moving to CF. But not until of the offseason.

Hanley will improve. I believe most of these errors are based on focus and not arm angle or ability. I guess that means I am some kind of Hanley fanboy but that's what I truly believe. I would be absolutely shocked if he was moved from SS within the next calender year and I would be very disappointed if that was the case.

 

I'll try to do some sloothing tomorrow to grab a quote or two about Hanley from those who actually make decisions like the one suggested in the beginning of this thread.

 

It could be focus. Or protecting the franchise. Either way, it doesn't look good. I think he can improve also. Is he willing to to do what it takes is the question.

Every replay I saw of the play at home seemed to show that Olivo could have caught that ball. I think Hanley actually made a pretty solid throw on a tough play and put Olivo in great position to make the play if he would have caught it.

I've mentioned Hanley's ineptness at shortstop three or four times this season as opposed to your hundreds or thousands (who can count???) of times regarding Mitre and Olivo.

 

Please be my guest, go search how many times I've brought this up and find even one time where I find fault with Hanley offensively or don't say he's a great player who I think has physically outgrown his position.

 

Sometimes I'm not the brightest guy, but can you explain that statement to me...

 

A-Rod... a Gold Glove SS is 6'3" 225lbs....

Hanley is 6'3" 200lbs....

 

Mind you, A-Rod was only moved to 3rd because of Jeter, not because he "outgrew" the position... (

I think Hanley and everyone else for that matter misses Hill.

 

It will get better. People are so negative sometimes.

Ya I was getting ready to say. Seabass, as much as I love him, is strugga-liiiinnnng(copyright Tony Reali) this year with the glove.

 

Hanley throw was at the runner with his throw to home. Olivo really didn't have a shot at it. The error was all on the Marlin God In Training. Pretty simple fact. But I can see how those that dislike Olivo so much would rather put the blame on him. Of course they also blame Olivo when he attempts to throw a base stealer out, the throw is on line but hits the runner right at the plate, Hanley dosen't field it well, and the runner advances giving an error to Olivo. Seen that at least once this year.

I wouldn't mind moving Hanley to the OF. Just not this season. It's not the right timing. The Amazing is a far better defensive SS, and I am all for the quality of defense.

I'm not going so far as to say moving Hanley will make Cabrera a better defensive 3B either. Cabs can be really good there when he wants to play the position. He just gets lazy unless the game means something to him. For instance, end of the season for a future pay day or maybe a play off berth. Or against teams he really dosent like. Good example of that is his glove during this home stand. He has shown what he is capable of with the leather. But more often he will watch grounders go by him to his right or not run out pop ups in foul territory. That has nothing to do with Hanley being on his left. That's just a prima donna playing in a blue collar position. Of course he is a Marlin God so it's hard to say anything negative to those who don't go to the games and watch the stats instead. Stats don't show what can't be seen on TV, what those that actually go to the games do see.

IMO ST next year should be all about the work. Trade Hammer and Jake. Both are defensive liabilities. Convince Miggy that moving to 1B is his idea otherwise we have a prima donna pouter on our hands. I am not convinced Miggy will ever be the 3B that plays his heart out every game, every play. Move Hanley to LF. In the trades bring in competition for SS and CF.

Of course the big IF in this is if Jeremy can show he can go uninjured for more than a month or two at a time. And Friday night really had me worried about that. In a pitching change Jeremy was hobbling to the OF pack near CF and was rubbing the upper back side of his right leg. Then kept holding onto Amazega and stretching it out. Probably just a cramp... and all players get them. But when I see Hermida doing that it makes me cringe. Especially on a cool, breezy evening. The guy just seems to be a magnet for the DL. PLEASE break that "habit."

I was at the game tonight and from my angle, Olivo should have caught that ball.

 

Still, Hanley is lacking defensively. There is no question about that. But there is no need to rush him into another position, especially one he is unfamiliar with in the middle of the season.

 

I didn't see it that way. The throw was way off. It hit the runner and Olivo's outstretched glove. When one of our players is the runner it's a great offensive/running play. When it happens to be Olivo his haters want to blame him. The scorer originally rang it up as an E2, then after reviewing the replays between innings changed it to an error on Hanley. He changed it correctly. It was a bad throw.

But I do agree with you on the latter. I'm willing to let the year go on and see if Hanley improves. Also willing to let the year go on and see if Miggy slims down and starts playing 3B with heart and consistency. If not on either or both, then ST is the time to move players around.

 

I think Hanley and everyone else for that matter misses Hill.

 

It will get better. People are so negative sometimes.

 

Hill is the missing link. I have no doubt about that.

Four words: This is a JOKE!

But I can see how those that dislike Olivo so much would rather put the blame on him.

 

No one hates Olivo. Not even me.

 

But it is pretty much universally recognized that Olivo is awful defensively. And while I didnt see the play, the majority have said that while the throw wasnt perfect it was more than catchable. And quite frankly it doesnt surprise me.

Is that we lost our infielding coach. That guy work magic with our 03 infield of Gonzalez, Castillo, Lowell, Lee. Our guys were improving their defense last year but he left and now Fox is taking over.

I think it would be a good experiment to move Hanley to CF. He is great in all other aspects of his game, but his defense is not where it should be at shortstop. He seems like he would make a good outfielder. We would need a shortstop to replace him though, as I don't think Amezaga is suited for an everyday shortstop job. Gonzalez was the opposite of Hanley; he was great defensively but most of the time he sucked at the plate.

This is retarded...

Meh, 2003 has been leading a one man crusade against Hanley for a while now.

 

No biggie. I just think he overlooks the fact that young SS struggle with the glove initially, alot of times for a few seasons. As stated, Hanley is right now much better than Seabass was in his 2nd season(where he was probably the worst in the NL if not MLB with the glove) and he turned out more than allright.

Olivo couldn't catch a cold. It wasn't a great throw but it should have been caught.

What's the report look like on Baker? Is he any good defensively? Even decent defensively would be an upgrade over Olivo.

I agree in 2003s assesment that Hanley Ramirez is NOT a good defensive shortstop, and the fact that he said that doesn't mean 2003 is on a crusade to trash Ramirez. I have yet to see him bash Hanley's work with the bat. But I don't agree with him on a midseason position change and bringing back offensive liability Alex Gonzalez. Over the course of this season, Ramirez' offensive talent will more than make up for his lack of defensive talent.

 

In the offseason however, I wouldn't be opposed to a position change if the organization can somehow find an average offensive shortstop with average to above average defense. That however is unlikely considering the prices players of that caliber and lesser talent are going for.

 

BTW, Olivo should have had that throw. Easily.

To be honest the defensive issues are at every position.

 

From top to bottom this might be the worst defensive unit we've ever had. Or at least they're playing that way.

 

I mean go right down the line, is there a single player we have that you'd consider above-average defensively? Not a single one.

 

It's pretty blatant when you've gotten used to watching Lee-Castillo-Gonzalez-Lowell to this.

 

Hanley's still young though, it's true. Cabrera I have less forgiveness for, except there's nowhere else to put him.

i LIKE hanely in center, and Cbass owns, but i think we could see other options. But the AA idea is OK... His game may imprive with Cabs there. De Aza is out for a while, give hanely a few games out there, and AA a few games at 6 and see what happens

Well I got in touch with 2 people who weighed in heavily on the subject on Hanley at SS. One was a scout, the other was someone in the Marlins organization.

 

The scout said "frankly, the marlins would have to be out of their collective minds to move that kid out of SS at this point in time. He has all the tools and he just isn't focusing right now. He is certainly a player that will try to improve, he wants to be the best"

 

And from the Marlins org: "There has been no discussion about moving Hanley. He is an all star caliber defender at SS and that's where we see him for the foreseeable future"

 

--these are direct quotes