No, really...please break up the Marlins. As an actual Marlin fan, one that has been through the roller coaster ride that is the harsh reality of life as a Marlins fan, I can honestly say this is the most difficult team I've ever watched. More difficult even than the 1998 and 1999 teams, and that's saying a lot.

 

Why break up a team that has overachieved? Well, because it has overachieved. This team has power, but it has no clue at tthe plate. Pitchers finally realized that it's probably not a good idea to feed this lineup fastballs, and the result is that we are seeing that we are actually a pretty sh*tty hitting team.

 

So who's to blame? Well, it certainly starts with Fredi. The way that this team plays in 100% unacceptable. This is not a team composed of players that don't belong or who are too green to expect consistent major leaque quality play. That was the team that Girardi managed. This version of the young Marlins is a group that essentially does what it wants. Missed a sign on the bases? Awww, shucks. You'll get 'em next time. Four strike outs in a game? Those things are just going to happen. Swing for the fences, no matter the situation? You take the good with the bad. Yep...what we're seeing is a group of young, impressionable players who have been influenced by their manager. I'll say it until the front office decides to prove me right...Fredi has no business managing a young team. He's essentially ruined this crop of talent.

 

I think this team is making a huge mistake if it brings back Fredi, but I have no doubt that it will. He's alarmingly even-tempered, and patient to a fault. Those are good traits in life, and even as a baseball manager to a certain degree, but Fredi takes it to another level. He takes it to the point of enabling. Every time he allows Jacobs to take gigantic cuts with runners in scoring position it's shame on Fredi. When Fredi sees a guy like Dan Uggla have 3 brain farts in one week with no recourse, that's shame on Fredi. This team has taken on the personality of its manager, and that's not a pretty sight.

 

And the best personification of Fredi? Jeremy Hermida. Has anyone every seen such a talented player so carefree? He doesn't seem to be too worried about much on the field, but that seems to be okay because his manager doesn't seem to expect much. A guy with the makeup of Hermida should be a much better all around hitter, and much less pitchable. A guy with the makeup of Hermida should be a great fielder. Will he ever be either with Fredi managing the club? Nope. Fredi can't get it out of him.

 

Unfortunately, Fredi will be around next year. So who should go? Jacobs undoubtedly should be the first. I almost feel bad for him in a way that he hasn't had the luxury of a manger with the balls to chew his ass out, but he's gonna need to go somewhere else to get that. It's clear he doesn't work out on this team. Uggla, as much as I hate to say it, needs to go. This is more a cost/benefit decision, as he simply is no longer worth (to us) his cost next year. This team needs to get guys with a clue at the plate, and Uggla really doesn't have one save for his 2 or 3 hot streaks per year. One of either Ross or Willingham needs to go as well, probably Willingham simply because we need to get better defensively.

 

That's 1/3 of the batting order. Is that enough? I fear it's not as long as we have the same tone at the top, but I won't keep beating that dead horse.

The dead horse has been beaten, buried, dug up, and being beaten again.

I think at least 3 of those 4 guys are gone regardless. But it is indeed a frustrating team to watch. Especially when we've finally got the 5 starters we want out on the mound and the hitting and bullpen have gone to pot.

 

I don't blame Freddi quite as much, but only because I'm not one to place a lot of blame/praise on the manager in general. I don't know that I'm right though, maybe a young club needs a feisty manager sometimes, who knows. I guess I've just never been able to buy into the idea that (for example) Freddi benching Uggla for a game after he's committed a boneheaded error makes any difference. Okay so it's public then that the manager will bench you if your head isn't in the game. What happens then? So he takes a game off, does that fix the problem? Do you bench him for a week?

 

And this also presumes that Freddi hasn't chewed anyone out in private or closed-door meetings. I wouldn't bet on it, but we can't know for sure.

 

As far as the hitting, it is what it is. Mike Jacobs probably isn't going to shorten his swing and Dan Uggla's not going to start hitting the ball opposite field. Live or die with them. We have too many similar hitters though, that much seems certain.

 

Hermida is particularly frustrating though because I expect more from him.

It's amazing how Fredi gets so much blame.

Do you guys even know what he's like inside the clubhouse, when the media isn't there?

 

Everyone is so quick to point out Gonzo as the tough "veteran leader..." yet, Gonzo is supposedly a jokester.

 

If you're gonna talk, talk about things you know. As in...what is happening, ON THE FIELD.

 

B/c honestly...you don't know what these guys are like off the field. At least I don't. I'm guessing, if anything, 2% of this board does indeed know what happens behind closed doors.

 

Just b/c Fredi doesn't go all Ozzie (how did that work for Ozzie last year, anyways? ) or Leyland (who's team is doing great this year ), doesn't mean he doesn't have meetings with his players. It doesn't mean he babies them.

 

We sound like Mets fans who blamed everything on Willie Randolph.

 

Managers are overrated.

I tend to think that people put far too much emphasis on game management skills of a manager, and far too little on the intangibles of a manager. If you believe that baseball is a mental game, then it's hard to discount the effect that a manager can have on his players. Sure, it's probably unrealistic for Fredi to snap every time a hitter strikes out with a runner on third and less than one, but is it so unrealistic to expect him to make it uncomfortable for players to come back into the dugout after some of the at-bats that we see day after day? You do that by pushing buttons every now and then...remember Jack McKeon? There are extremes, obviously. Do it too often and the buttons don't seem to work anymore, but don't do it enough and your team plays baseball like a little league squad. Maybe if our manager had a certain stature these guys would make a serious attempt at changing their ways.

 

I would feel so much better if I saw guys actually trying to correct weaknesses. They are, in fact, youngsters that should be getting better. But I just don't see it. I see the same approach over and over with every hitter. And nothing is being done about it and nobody seems to be worried about it. There's just an 'aww, shucks" aura about this team that I think is a direct result of Fredi. Why hasn't anyone choked up? Every time I see Jacobs take one of his gargantuan swings on a 0-2 count I think that just makes Fredi look worse and worse. No respectable manager would let that happen up and down the lineup day after day.

They need to make getting rid of Kevin Gregg their #1 offseason priority.

I tend to think that people put far too much emphasis on game management skills of a manager, and far too little on the intangibles of a manager. If you believe that baseball is a mental game, then it's hard to discount the effect that a manager can have on his players. Sure, it's probably unrealistic for Fredi to snap every time a hitter strikes out with a runner on third and less than one, but is it so unrealistic to expect him to make it uncomfortable for players to come back into the dugout after some of the at-bats that we see day after day? You do that by pushing buttons every now and then...remember Jack McKeon? There are extremes, obviously. Do it too often and the buttons don't seem to work anymore, but don't do it enough and your team plays baseball like a little league squad. Maybe if our manager had a certain stature these guys would make a serious attempt at changing their ways.

 

I would feel so much better if I saw guys actually trying to correct weaknesses. They are, in fact, youngsters that should be getting better. But I just don't see it. I see the same approach over and over with every hitter. And nothing is being done about it and nobody seems to be worried about it. There's just an 'aww, shucks" aura about this team that I think is a direct result of Fredi. Why hasn't anyone choked up? Every time I see Jacobs take one of his gargantuan swings on a 0-2 count I think that just makes Fredi look worse and worse. No respectable manager would let that happen up and down the lineup day after day.

 

 

To some extent I agree with you, Vinivedivichi. I don't really know who is to blame, besides the players and I guess Fredi to some extent, but every time I see the players make the same mistakes over and over again I get so frustrated. I don't understand why this team isn't improving in the slightest, if anything they are simply doing worse. I guess some of it is psychological because this slump must be annoying them more than any fan, but my question is, are they doing anything to rectify the situation? The most I see are slight changes in the line-up. But is that really such an improvement?

It's amazing how Fredi gets so much blame.

Do you guys even know what he's like inside the clubhouse, when the media isn't there?

 

Is it more likely that Fredi is who the public sees or that he's a Jekyll and Hyde figure who just keeps his composure long enough for reporters to turn those cameras off? I don't know what he's like in the clubhouse because I'm not there, but give me a break. I think we all have a pretty good idea of who Fredi is.

 

B/c honestly...you don't know what these guys are like off the field. At least I don't. I'm guessing, if anything, 2% of this board does indeed know what happens behind closed doors.

 

Just b/c Fredi doesn't go all Ozzie (how did that work for Ozzie last year, anyways? ) or Leyland (who's team is doing great this year ), doesn't mean he doesn't have meetings with his players. It doesn't mean he babies them.

 

We sound like Mets fans who blamed everything on Willie Randolph.

 

Managers are overrated.

 

Like I said, baseball is a mental game. Managers can be good for teams one year, but bad for teams the next. A guy like McKeon plays his games too often, and the result is his tricks stop working. Fredi doesn't need to turn into Ozzie, he just needs to stop being such a damn pushover. This team is essentially infected with his attitude. You can say managers are overrated, but that statement doesn't jive with what we've seen over and over again.

 

Remeber the 2003 team? They were lulled to sleep by happy-go-lucky manager after happy-go-lucky manager, then Jack came in and changed the dynamic of the team. You can't overrate that effect.

I tend to think that people put far too much emphasis on game management skills of a manager, and far too little on the intangibles of a manager. If you believe that baseball is a mental game, then it's hard to discount the effect that a manager can have on his players. Sure, it's probably unrealistic for Fredi to snap every time a hitter strikes out with a runner on third and less than one, but is it so unrealistic to expect him to make it uncomfortable for players to come back into the dugout after some of the at-bats that we see day after day? You do that by pushing buttons every now and then...remember Jack McKeon? There are extremes, obviously. Do it too often and the buttons don't seem to work anymore, but don't do it enough and your team plays baseball like a little league squad. Maybe if our manager had a certain stature these guys would make a serious attempt at changing their ways.

 

I would feel so much better if I saw guys actually trying to correct weaknesses. They are, in fact, youngsters that should be getting better. But I just don't see it. I see the same approach over and over with every hitter. And nothing is being done about it and nobody seems to be worried about it. There's just an 'aww, shucks" aura about this team that I think is a direct result of Fredi. Why hasn't anyone choked up? Every time I see Jacobs take one of his gargantuan swings on a 0-2 count I think that just makes Fredi look worse and worse. No respectable manager would let that happen up and down the lineup day after day.

 

i agree with you. i think that the players have not changed their approach because they think they are gonna get out of their slump and hit homeruns like they used to. but the problem, like you said, is that the pitchers know that all they do is hit homeruns and they are pitching them accordingly and if the marlin dont adjust to the pitchers they will continue to struggle. However, it doesnt seem as if freddi or presley have enforced enough the fact that they MUST have a different approach because so far their on the field play shows that the marlin hitters are not attempting to change at all

My biggest gripe with Fredi has to do with how this team executes on the field. They continually make the most boneheaded mistakes - from terrible approaches at the plate with runners in scoring position, baserunning mistakes, errors in the field - and it all goes back to me to the fact this team has evidently not been grounded in fundamentals. The Marlins need to find a coaching staff that can do that. I do believe they can improve in these areas, but the team needs a manager and coaching staff that can effectively drill them and drill them some more until they get it right.

No, really...please break up the Marlins. As an actual Marlin fan, one that has been through the roller coaster ride that is the harsh reality of life as a Marlins fan, I can honestly say this is the most difficult team I've ever watched. More difficult even than the 1998 and 1999 teams, and that's saying a lot.

 

Why break up a team that has overachieved? Well, because it has overachieved. This team has power, but it has no clue at tthe plate. Pitchers finally realized that it's probably not a good idea to feed this lineup fastballs, and the result is that we are seeing that we are actually a pretty sh*tty hitting team.

Oh God, I remember how in the 2nd half of 2006 "the league figured out Dan Uggla" and he would never produce the same again, or how without Piguel in the middle of the order our offense was doomed. The reality is something quite different. Uggla put up 30+ HR season and he will put another one this year, without Cabrera behind him. And even with his current slump, this could still be his most productive season yet. The reality is that Uggla has been on base in 9 of the last 10 games, and while he's not hitting well this month, his OBP is still higher (this month) than his career OBP. They are slumping. That's it.

 

So who's to blame? Well, it certainly starts with Fredi. The way that this team plays in 100% unacceptable. This is not a team composed of players that don't belong or who are too green to expect consistent major leaque quality play. That was the team that Girardi managed. This version of the young Marlins is a group that essentially does what it wants. Missed a sign on the bases? Awww, shucks. You'll get 'em next time. Four strike outs in a game? Those things are just going to happen. Swing for the fences, no matter the situation? You take the good with the bad. Yep...what we're seeing is a group of young, impressionable players who have been influenced by their manager. I'll say it until the front office decides to prove me right...Fredi has no business managing a young team. He's essentially ruined this crop of talent.

I don't get it - you admit that the team has overachieved, and then you complain about the leadership? The reality again is that when the season started we were expected to lose 100+ games and be the worst team in MLB. This team doesn't have a lineup built for OBP, and if they tried to be that sort of team, maybe we could be the Mariners or the Nationals.

 

I think this team is making a huge mistake if it brings back Fredi, but I have no doubt that it will. He's alarmingly even-tempered, and patient to a fault. Those are good traits in life, and even as a baseball manager to a certain degree, but Fredi takes it to another level. He takes it to the point of enabling. Every time he allows Jacobs to take gigantic cuts with runners in scoring position it's shame on Fredi. When Fredi sees a guy like Dan Uggla have 3 brain farts in one week with no recourse, that's shame on Fredi. This team has taken on the personality of its manager, and that's not a pretty sight.

Dan Uggla and Mike Jacobs lead the team in RBIs. You take away those gigantic cuts or you sit Dan Uggla, and you're gonna lose, not gain run production.

 

And the best personification of Fredi? Jeremy Hermida. Has anyone every seen such a talented player so carefree? He doesn't seem to be too worried about much on the field, but that seems to be okay because his manager doesn't seem to expect much. A guy with the makeup of Hermida should be a much better all around hitter, and much less pitchable. A guy with the makeup of Hermida should be a great fielder. Will he ever be either with Fredi managing the club? Nope. Fredi can't get it out of him.

You wanna blame Fredi for how Hermida underperformed in 2006 too? Or maybe Hermida's lack of production has something to do with Hermida, maybe moreso than with Fredi. A manager cannot force a player to be good.

 

Unfortunately, Fredi will be around next year. So who should go? Jacobs undoubtedly should be the first. I almost feel bad for him in a way that he hasn't had the luxury of a manger with the balls to chew his ass out, but he's gonna need to go somewhere else to get that. It's clear he doesn't work out on this team. Uggla, as much as I hate to say it, needs to go. This is more a cost/benefit decision, as he simply is no longer worth (to us) his cost next year. This team needs to get guys with a clue at the plate, and Uggla really doesn't have one save for his 2 or 3 hot streaks per year. One of either Ross or Willingham needs to go as well, probably Willingham simply because we need to get better defensively.

 

That's 1/3 of the batting order. Is that enough? I fear it's not as long as we have the same tone at the top, but I won't keep beating that dead horse.

Seriously, do you think that having a different manager would magically turn Jacobs into 400+ OBP guy? Honestly, I'll be ok if he goes, but this has been his most productive year, and it's certainly been more productive. Uggla, again, even in his slump, is still putting up better than his career OBP this month. The standard by which you judge these guys just makes me wonder where you expect to find hitters who never go into slumps that also have the power to put up 30+ HR seasons and continue to lead the team in RBIs. I would agree with letting Willingham go, although more on account of his lack of durability than anything else. Even as chronically injured as he has been, he's still been more productive by any measure than the "so talented " but equally fragile Jeremy Hermida.

this team has a boatload of arbitration eligibles and FA after the season so I think u will get your wish....they will be broken up......AGAIN!!!!

 

fire sale 2008

Piguel

 

 

:lol :lol :lol

 

There's no great mystery about Fredi. He thinks his mentor Cox is god. His favorite comment about how great Cox is (and I think this is almost verbatim) "You could be on a 10-game winning streak or a 10-game losing streak and he's EXACTLY the same." Always an even keel. That's Fredi.

 

It's probable that he virtually always uses Gonzo or Helms or a coach to try and light a fire under someones ass when he thinks they need it. The intracacies of clubhouse dynamics are unknown to anyone who isn't actually there day-in and day-out, so, unless one is, it's sheer speculation to attribute anything to what he has or hasn't done.

 

There is something to be said for an even keel. Nobody likes working for a mercurial SOB. Managers in any business who yell and scream regularly about every little thing are almost universally despised. That said, I always found that the occasional but rare outburst could be quite effective in motivating someone who seemed to have forgotten some of the basic reasons I employed him.

The dead horse has been beaten, buried, dug up, and being beaten again.

The dead horse has been beaten, buried, dug up, and being beaten again.

I think at least 3 of those 4 guys are gone regardless. But it is indeed a frustrating team to watch. Especially when we've finally got the 5 starters we want out on the mound and the hitting and bullpen have gone to pot.

 

I don't blame Freddi quite as much, but only because I'm not one to place a lot of blame/praise on the manager in general. I don't know that I'm right though, maybe a young club needs a feisty manager sometimes, who knows. I guess I've just never been able to buy into the idea that (for example) Freddi benching Uggla for a game after he's committed a boneheaded error makes any difference. Okay so it's public then that the manager will bench you if your head isn't in the game. What happens then? So he takes a game off, does that fix the problem? Do you bench him for a week?

 

And this also presumes that Freddi hasn't chewed anyone out in private or closed-door meetings. I wouldn't bet on it, but we can't know for sure.

 

As far as the hitting, it is what it is. Mike Jacobs probably isn't going to shorten his swing and Dan Uggla's not going to start hitting the ball opposite field. Live or die with them. We have too many similar hitters though, that much seems certain.

 

Hermida is particularly frustrating though because I expect more from him.

 

Well I feel a little vindicated now, some are now agreeing with my stance back in April/May when we had the Hermida thread, that he was and is a bust. The guy is a nice kid, but just not worthy of the 11th pick in the draft. 3rd or 4th round I would be okay with him, but not top half of the 1st round of the draft.

 

Just another in a long line of terrible top draft picks by Beinfest.

 

2002 - Jeremy Hermida (BEE YOU ESS TEE !!)

2003 - Jeff Allison (anyone got a good deal for some drugs ?)

2004 - Taylor Tankersley (BEE YOU ESS TEE !!)

2005 - Aaron Thompson (WHO ???) Jacob Marceaux (WHO ???) Ryan Tucker (was a bust earlier this year) Sean West (WHO ???)

2006 - Brett Sinkbeil (still a mystery and only in AA) Chris Coughlan (20 errors and not Uggla's power)

2007 - Matt Dominguez (still a mystery but hasn't lit the world on fire)

2008 - Skip Kyleworth (who knows, but taking a HS catcher when we need someone sooner is not good drafting)

 

I'm sure many of you will pooh-pooh my post, and call me a traitor or not a "REAL" Marlins fan, and tell me to "go root for the Mets" as many of you did back a few months ago. But I still see what I saw then and I see an ownership that just is not committed to winning, because it will cost them money. They will continue to have at best, mediocre talent, and draft that way, because they just don't want to pay top salaries for winning talent.

 

This ownership needs to go, and this franchise will continue to flutter in the wind, until Carpet Bagggers Loria & Samson are gone. We need ownership with roots in South Fla. and care about building a franchise & fan base here.

this team has a boatload of arbitration eligibles and FA after the season so I think u will get your wish....they will be broken up......AGAIN!!!!

 

fire sale 2008

 

And this time, they will be sending out players that don't have much trade value. So that means getting nothing back for them.

 

The horrible drafting of Beinfest is catching up to the team.

 

Yes folks, we are the NEW Pittsburgh Pirates. :banghead

this team has a boatload of arbitration eligibles and FA after the season so I think u will get your wish....they will be broken up......AGAIN!!!!

 

fire sale 2008

 

And this time, they will be sending out players that don't have much trade value. So that means getting nothing back for them.

 

The horrible drafting of Beinfest is catching up to the team.

 

Yes folks, we are the NEW Pittsburgh Pirates. :banghead

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

we aint that bad

Well I feel a little vindicated now, some are now agreeing with my stance back in April/May when we had the Hermida thread, that he was and is a bust. The guy is a nice kid, but just not worthy of the 11th pick in the draft. 3rd or 4th round I would be okay with him, but not top half of the 1st round of the draft.

 

Just another in a long line of terrible top draft picks by Beinfest.

 

2002 - Jeremy Hermida (BEE YOU ESS TEE !!)

2003 - Jeff Allison (anyone got a good deal for some drugs ?)

2004 - Taylor Tankersley (BEE YOU ESS TEE !!)

2005 - Aaron Thompson (WHO ???) Jacob Marceaux (WHO ???) Ryan Tucker (was a bust earlier this year) Sean West (WHO ???)

2006 - Brett Sinkbeil (still a mystery and only in AA) Chris Coughlan (20 errors and not Uggla's power)

2007 - Matt Dominguez (still a mystery but hasn't lit the world on fire)

2008 - Skip Kyleworth (who knows, but taking a HS catcher when we need someone sooner is not good drafting)

 

I'm sure many of you will pooh-pooh my post, and call me a traitor or not a "REAL" Marlins fan, and tell me to "go root for the Mets" as many of you did back a few months ago. But I still see what I saw then and I see an ownership that just is not committed to winning, because it will cost them money. They will continue to have at best, mediocre talent, and draft that way, because they just don't want to pay top salaries for winning talent.

 

This ownership needs to go, and this franchise will continue to flutter in the wind, until Carpet Bagggers Loria & Samson are gone. We need ownership with roots in South Fla. and care about building a franchise & fan base here.

 

I'm sorry, but this post is just downright stupid!

 

The problem with your rationale is that you are in a football mindset that equates "first round" talents in both drafts, when the two sports selection systems couldn't be anymore different. Why don't we list ALL OF THE MARLINS FIRST ROUND DRAFT PICKS and see the "Hall of Famers" in that list before we can say that Beinfest has put this franchise back with his first round picks! Anyone remember Marc Valdes, Josh Booty, Jaime Jones, Aaron Akin, Matthew Thornton? Yeah, those are the previous regime's picks. Aside from Charles Johnson, Josh Beckett, and Adrian Gonzalez, there aren't any dominant players or guys that "lit the world on fire" on that list, and even then it takes those guys time to develop.

 

While we're at it, why don't we go look at other team's first round picks as well and compare. Want to see who else has gone in the first round (or what "gems" the Marlins passed on to get they're guys): Luis Montanez, Mike Stodolka, Matt Harrington, Beau Hale, Roger Ring, Keiunta Span, Robert Brownlie, John McCurdy, Sergio Santos, Bradley Snyder, David Aardsma, Richard Wood, Daric Barton, and the "amazin'" Mitchell Maier).

 

The MLB Draft isn't make-or-break in the First Round like the NFL Draft (with only 7 rounds) or the NBA Draft (with only 2). The MLB Draft has fifty...FIFTY...50...FIVE-OH... rounds. And that doesn't take into account international free agents, such as from the Dominican or Venezuela! To say that the Marlins front office doesn't know what they're doing and that we're the next Pittsburgh Pirates based on an analysis of THE FIRST ROUND OF THE MLB DRAFT is just plain ignorant, if not something else! The Pirates wish they had 1/8th the talent this team has!!!

 

Second, you're already posting "BEE YOU ESS TEE" labels on guys from the 2005 through 2008 drafts?!?!? Seriously, you can't be more ridiculous. I'm not going to ask you to go root for a different baseball team or call you a traitor, but I will ask you to go out and get a BASEBALL EDUCATION, because this isn't football, kid! I also like how you "conveniently" forgot to add Chris Volstad to the first round picks in 2005. Plus, you've already dismissed Tucker based on 10 games! That means you would have dismissed Ryan Dempster's career when he first came up. Remember him? Or, by my estimations you're too young to remember that! Well, take a seat, son, because school is in session: in 1998 Dempster was 1-5 with a 7.08 ERA. Geez, good thing we "dumped" him because he's turned out to be one helluva major league "BEE YOU ESS TEE!" Here's another lesson, how about Josh Beckett's first foray in the Majors? Remember that? He was 6-7 with a 4.10 ERA in 2002, which means you would've probably called him a "BEE YOU ESS TEE" because of that and all his "blister problems." Your ignorance is obvious when your only comment regarding Sean West is "WHO?" Just because you don't know who the minor leaguers are, doesn't mean they are "BEE YOU ESS TEES!" As for the 2008 pick (who you're already "poo-pooing"), hitting catchers are at a premium in baseball and you don't draft players in the first round to bring them up tomorrow. Skipworth was considered one of the top (if not top) offensive catching prospects in baseball. And, in case you haven't looked at the Marlins system (and judging from your comments and ignorance about the minor leaguers, YOU HAVEN'T), catching is one position this team is fairly lacking in. Finally, judging by your thoughts, management should be giving huge contracts and guaranteed money to 17 and 18 year olds! Oh yeah, that's sound team building!!!

 

Again, listen carefully THIS IS BASEBALL, NOT FOOTBALL. I think once you cure yourself of the ignorant football mindset which holds that if you're not good for me yesterday you'll never be good, you'll see the world much more clearly, boy!

Jeremy Hermida is not a bust.

Well I feel a little vindicated now, some are now agreeing with my stance back in April/May when we had the Hermida thread, that he was and is a bust. The guy is a nice kid, but just not worthy of the 11th pick in the draft. 3rd or 4th round I would be okay with him, but not top half of the 1st round of the draft.

 

Just another in a long line of terrible top draft picks by Beinfest.

 

2002 - Jeremy Hermida (BEE YOU ESS TEE !!)

2003 - Jeff Allison (anyone got a good deal for some drugs ?)

2004 - Taylor Tankersley (BEE YOU ESS TEE !!)

2005 - Aaron Thompson (WHO ???) Jacob Marceaux (WHO ???) Ryan Tucker (was a bust earlier this year) Sean West (WHO ???)

2006 - Brett Sinkbeil (still a mystery and only in AA) Chris Coughlan (20 errors and not Uggla's power)

2007 - Matt Dominguez (still a mystery but hasn't lit the world on fire)

2008 - Skip Kyleworth (who knows, but taking a HS catcher when we need someone sooner is not good drafting)

 

I'm sure many of you will pooh-pooh my post, and call me a traitor or not a "REAL" Marlins fan, and tell me to "go root for the Mets" as many of you did back a few months ago. But I still see what I saw then and I see an ownership that just is not committed to winning, because it will cost them money. They will continue to have at best, mediocre talent, and draft that way, because they just don't want to pay top salaries for winning talent.

 

This ownership needs to go, and this franchise will continue to flutter in the wind, until Carpet Bagggers Loria & Samson are gone. We need ownership with roots in South Fla. and care about building a franchise & fan base here.

 

I'm sorry, but this post is just downright stupid!

 

 

 

Understatement of the century. Horrible.

Well I feel a little vindicated now, some are now agreeing with my stance back in April/May when we had the Hermida thread, that he was and is a bust. The guy is a nice kid, but just not worthy of the 11th pick in the draft. 3rd or 4th round I would be okay with him, but not top half of the 1st round of the draft.

 

Just another in a long line of terrible top draft picks by Beinfest.

 

2002 - Jeremy Hermida (BEE YOU ESS TEE !!)

2003 - Jeff Allison (anyone got a good deal for some drugs ?)

2004 - Taylor Tankersley (BEE YOU ESS TEE !!)

2005 - Aaron Thompson (WHO ???) Jacob Marceaux (WHO ???) Ryan Tucker (was a bust earlier this year) Sean West (WHO ???)

2006 - Brett Sinkbeil (still a mystery and only in AA) Chris Coughlan (20 errors and not Uggla's power)

2007 - Matt Dominguez (still a mystery but hasn't lit the world on fire)

2008 - Skip Kyleworth (who knows, but taking a HS catcher when we need someone sooner is not good drafting)

 

I'm sure many of you will pooh-pooh my post, and call me a traitor or not a "REAL" Marlins fan, and tell me to "go root for the Mets" as many of you did back a few months ago. But I still see what I saw then and I see an ownership that just is not committed to winning, because it will cost them money. They will continue to have at best, mediocre talent, and draft that way, because they just don't want to pay top salaries for winning talent.

 

This ownership needs to go, and this franchise will continue to flutter in the wind, until Carpet Bagggers Loria & Samson are gone. We need ownership with roots in South Fla. and care about building a franchise & fan base here.

 

I'm sorry, but this post is just downright stupid!

 

The problem with your rationale is that you are in a football mindset that equates "first round" talents in both drafts, when the two sports selection systems couldn't be anymore different. Why don't we list ALL OF THE MARLINS FIRST ROUND DRAFT PICKS and see the "Hall of Famers" in that list before we can say that Beinfest has put this franchise back with his first round picks! Anyone remember Marc Valdes, Josh Booty, Jaime Jones, Aaron Akin, Matthew Thornton? Yeah, those are the previous regime's picks. Aside from Charles Johnson, Josh Beckett, and Adrian Gonzalez, there aren't any dominant players or guys that "lit the world on fire" on that list, and even then it takes those guys time to develop.

 

While we're at it, why don't we go look at other team's first round picks as well and compare. Want to see who else has gone in the first round (or what "gems" the Marlins passed on to get they're guys): Luis Montanez, Mike Stodolka, Matt Harrington, Beau Hale, Roger Ring, Keiunta Span, Robert Brownlie, John McCurdy, Sergio Santos, Bradley Snyder, David Aardsma, Richard Wood, Daric Barton, and the "amazin'" Mitchell Maier).

 

The MLB Draft isn't make-or-break in the First Round like the NFL Draft (with only 7 rounds) or the NBA Draft (with only 2). The MLB Draft has fifty...FIFTY...50...FIVE-OH... rounds. And that doesn't take into account international free agents, such as from the Dominican or Venezuela! To say that the Marlins front office doesn't know what they're doing and that we're the next Pittsburgh Pirates based on an analysis of THE FIRST ROUND OF THE MLB DRAFT is just plain ignorant, if not something else! The Pirates wish they had 1/8th the talent this team has!!!

 

Second, you're already posting "BEE YOU ESS TEE" labels on guys from the 2005 through 2008 drafts?!?!? Seriously, you can't be more ridiculous. I'm not going to ask you to go root for a different baseball team or call you a traitor, but I will ask you to go out and get a BASEBALL EDUCATION, because this isn't football, kid! I also like how you "conveniently" forgot to add Chris Volstad to the first round picks in 2005. Plus, you've already dismissed Tucker based on 10 games! That means you would have dismissed Ryan Dempster's career when he first came up. Remember him? Or, by my estimations you're too young to remember that! Well, take a seat, son, because school is in session: in 1998 Dempster was 1-5 with a 7.08 ERA. Geez, good thing we "dumped" him because he's turned out to be one helluva major league "BEE YOU ESS TEE!" Here's another lesson, how about Josh Beckett's first foray in the Majors? Remember that? He was 6-7 with a 4.10 ERA in 2002, which means you would've probably called him a "BEE YOU ESS TEE" because of that and all his "blister problems." Your ignorance is obvious when your only comment regarding Sean West is "WHO?" Just because you don't know who the minor leaguers are, doesn't mean they are "BEE YOU ESS TEES!" As for the 2008 pick (who you're already "poo-pooing"), hitting catchers are at a premium in baseball and you don't draft players in the first round to bring them up tomorrow. Skipworth was considered one of the top (if not top) offensive catching prospects in baseball. And, in case you haven't looked at the Marlins system (and judging from your comments and ignorance about the minor leaguers, YOU HAVEN'T), catching is one position this team is fairly lacking in. Finally, judging by your thoughts, management should be giving huge contracts and guaranteed money to 17 and 18 year olds! Oh yeah, that's sound team building!!!

 

Again, listen carefully THIS IS BASEBALL, NOT FOOTBALL. I think once you cure yourself of the ignorant football mindset which holds that if you're not good for me yesterday you'll never be good, you'll see the world much more clearly, boy!

 

+1, Mungo, you have NO IDEA what you were talking about.

Well I feel a little vindicated now, some are now agreeing with my stance back in April/May when we had the Hermida thread, that he was and is a bust. The guy is a nice kid, but just not worthy of the 11th pick in the draft. 3rd or 4th round I would be okay with him, but not top half of the 1st round of the draft.

 

Just another in a long line of terrible top draft picks by Beinfest.

 

2002 - Jeremy Hermida (BEE YOU ESS TEE !!)

2003 - Jeff Allison (anyone got a good deal for some drugs ?)

2004 - Taylor Tankersley (BEE YOU ESS TEE !!)

2005 - Aaron Thompson (WHO ???) Jacob Marceaux (WHO ???) Ryan Tucker (was a bust earlier this year) Sean West (WHO ???)

2006 - Brett Sinkbeil (still a mystery and only in AA) Chris Coughlan (20 errors and not Uggla's power)

2007 - Matt Dominguez (still a mystery but hasn't lit the world on fire)

2008 - Skip Kyleworth (who knows, but taking a HS catcher when we need someone sooner is not good drafting)

 

I'm sure many of you will pooh-pooh my post, and call me a traitor or not a "REAL" Marlins fan, and tell me to "go root for the Mets" as many of you did back a few months ago. But I still see what I saw then and I see an ownership that just is not committed to winning, because it will cost them money. They will continue to have at best, mediocre talent, and draft that way, because they just don't want to pay top salaries for winning talent.

 

This ownership needs to go, and this franchise will continue to flutter in the wind, until Carpet Bagggers Loria & Samson are gone. We need ownership with roots in South Fla. and care about building a franchise & fan base here.

 

I'm sorry, but this post is just downright stupid!

 

The problem with your rationale is that you are in a football mindset that equates "first round" talents in both drafts, when the two sports selection systems couldn't be anymore different. Why don't we list ALL OF THE MARLINS FIRST ROUND DRAFT PICKS and see the "Hall of Famers" in that list before we can say that Beinfest has put this franchise back with his first round picks! Anyone remember Marc Valdes, Josh Booty, Jaime Jones, Aaron Akin, Matthew Thornton? Yeah, those are the previous regime's picks. Aside from Charles Johnson, Josh Beckett, and Adrian Gonzalez, there aren't any dominant players or guys that "lit the world on fire" on that list, and even then it takes those guys time to develop.

 

While we're at it, why don't we go look at other team's first round picks as well and compare. Want to see who else has gone in the first round (or what "gems" the Marlins passed on to get they're guys): Luis Montanez, Mike Stodolka, Matt Harrington, Beau Hale, Roger Ring, Keiunta Span, Robert Brownlie, John McCurdy, Sergio Santos, Bradley Snyder, David Aardsma, Richard Wood, Daric Barton, and the "amazin'" Mitchell Maier).

 

The MLB Draft isn't make-or-break in the First Round like the NFL Draft (with only 7 rounds) or the NBA Draft (with only 2). The MLB Draft has fifty...FIFTY...50...FIVE-OH... rounds. And that doesn't take into account international free agents, such as from the Dominican or Venezuela! To say that the Marlins front office doesn't know what they're doing and that we're the next Pittsburgh Pirates based on an analysis of THE FIRST ROUND OF THE MLB DRAFT is just plain ignorant, if not something else! The Pirates wish they had 1/8th the talent this team has!!!

 

Second, you're already posting "BEE YOU ESS TEE" labels on guys from the 2005 through 2008 drafts?!?!? Seriously, you can't be more ridiculous. I'm not going to ask you to go root for a different baseball team or call you a traitor, but I will ask you to go out and get a BASEBALL EDUCATION, because this isn't football, kid! I also like how you "conveniently" forgot to add Chris Volstad to the first round picks in 2005. Plus, you've already dismissed Tucker based on 10 games! That means you would have dismissed Ryan Dempster's career when he first came up. Remember him? Or, by my estimations you're too young to remember that! Well, take a seat, son, because school is in session: in 1998 Dempster was 1-5 with a 7.08 ERA. Geez, good thing we "dumped" him because he's turned out to be one helluva major league "BEE YOU ESS TEE!" Here's another lesson, how about Josh Beckett's first foray in the Majors? Remember that? He was 6-7 with a 4.10 ERA in 2002, which means you would've probably called him a "BEE YOU ESS TEE" because of that and all his "blister problems." Your ignorance is obvious when your only comment regarding Sean West is "WHO?" Just because you don't know who the minor leaguers are, doesn't mean they are "BEE YOU ESS TEES!" As for the 2008 pick (who you're already "poo-pooing"), hitting catchers are at a premium in baseball and you don't draft players in the first round to bring them up tomorrow. Skipworth was considered one of the top (if not top) offensive catching prospects in baseball. And, in case you haven't looked at the Marlins system (and judging from your comments and ignorance about the minor leaguers, YOU HAVEN'T), catching is one position this team is fairly lacking in. Finally, judging by your thoughts, management should be giving huge contracts and guaranteed money to 17 and 18 year olds! Oh yeah, that's sound team building!!!

 

Again, listen carefully THIS IS BASEBALL, NOT FOOTBALL. I think once you cure yourself of the ignorant football mindset which holds that if you're not good for me yesterday you'll never be good, you'll see the world much more clearly, boy!

 

Not only did he not include Vostad, but he also convenienty forgot to mention Josh Johnson and Scott Olsen in the 2002 draft. I don't know what Mungo meant in saying that Hermida was "not worthy" of being the 11th pick overall since at the time he must have been really worthy to be chosen 11th overall out of around a thousand players. About Dominguez, even though he has not "lit the world on fire", he could definitely have a chance to become a great player in the future and a major part of the team.

Mungo I wouldn't even know where to start with that awful post.

2008: Mungo (BEE YOU ESS TEE !!)