Trust me, I'm not trying to turn this into an "I wish we could have traded for Manny" thread, but if we had him, I think we would be in better shape than we are in now.

 

Manny would not only draw for a little while just because he is a big name player, but if he kept the Marlins in contention for the playoffs, he could have affected the attendance for the rest of the season.

Well, that's assuming he did. Even if he came over here and he murdered the ball, we would still be in bad shape given that everyone else on the team would still be hitting like sh*t.

 

If the trade would have gone through, Manny would have been a Marlin and Hermida would have been gone.

 

Manny Ramirez since he joined the Dodgers (31 games)- .414 average, .500 OBP, 10 HR

 

Jeremy Hermida (last 28 games)- .177 average, .288 OBP, 1 HR

 

I think he would have made a big difference, even if the rest of the team is hitting like sh*t.

Trust me, I'm not trying to turn this into an "I wish we could have traded for Manny" thread, but if we had him, I think we would be in better shape than we are in now.

 

Manny would not only draw for a little while just because he is a big name player, but if he kept the Marlins in contention for the playoffs, he could have affected the attendance for the rest of the season.

Well, that's assuming he did. Even if he came over here and he murdered the ball, we would still be in bad shape given that everyone else on the team would still be hitting like sh*t.

 

If the trade would have gone through, Manny would have been a Marlin and Hermida would have been gone.

 

Manny Ramirez since he joined the Dodgers (31 games)- .414 average, .500 OBP, 10 HR

 

Jeremy Hermida (last 28 games)- .177 average, .288 OBP, 1 HR

 

I think he would have made a big difference, even if the rest of the team is hitting like sh*t.

One player a team does not make.

Trust me, I'm not trying to turn this into an "I wish we could have traded for Manny" thread, but if we had him, I think we would be in better shape than we are in now.

 

Manny would not only draw for a little while just because he is a big name player, but if he kept the Marlins in contention for the playoffs, he could have affected the attendance for the rest of the season.

Well, that's assuming he did. Even if he came over here and he murdered the ball, we would still be in bad shape given that everyone else on the team would still be hitting like sh*t.

 

If the trade would have gone through, Manny would have been a Marlin and Hermida would have been gone.

 

Manny Ramirez since he joined the Dodgers (31 games)- .414 average, .500 OBP, 10 HR

 

Jeremy Hermida (last 28 games)- .177 average, .288 OBP, 1 HR

 

I think he would have made a big difference, even if the rest of the team is hitting like sh*t.

One player a team does not make.

 

 

When there is that much of a difference in stats, I dont see how you could say there would barely be a difference.

Trust me, I'm not trying to turn this into an "I wish we could have traded for Manny" thread, but if we had him, I think we would be in better shape than we are in now.

 

Manny would not only draw for a little while just because he is a big name player, but if he kept the Marlins in contention for the playoffs, he could have affected the attendance for the rest of the season.

Well, that's assuming he did. Even if he came over here and he murdered the ball, we would still be in bad shape given that everyone else on the team would still be hitting like sh*t.

 

If the trade would have gone through, Manny would have been a Marlin and Hermida would have been gone.

 

Manny Ramirez since he joined the Dodgers (31 games)- .414 average, .500 OBP, 10 HR

 

Jeremy Hermida (last 28 games)- .177 average, .288 OBP, 1 HR

 

I think he would have made a big difference, even if the rest of the team is hitting like sh*t.

One player a team does not make.

 

 

When there is that much of a difference in stats, I dont see how you could say there would barely be a difference.

 

 

...tell that to the Dodgers.

This has "lulz" written all over it.

Catchers

Brad Ausmus (40)

Paul Bako (37)

Rod Barajas (33) - $2.5MM club option for '09 with a $0.5MM buyout

Michael Barrett (32)

Henry Blanco (37) - $3MM mutual option for '09 with a $0.3MM buyout

Johnny Estrada (33)

Toby Hall (33) - $2.25MM club option for '09 with a $0.15MM buyout

Jason LaRue (35)

Paul Lo Duca (37)

Miguel Olivo (30) - $2.7MM mutual option for '09 with a $0.1MM buyout

Mike Redmond (38) - $0.95MM club option for '09 with a $0.1MM buyout

Ivan Rodriguez (37)

David Ross (32)

Javier Valentin (33)

Jason Varitek (37)

Gregg Zaun (38)

 

First basemen

Rich Aurilia (37)

Hank Blalock (28) - $6.2MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout

Sean Casey (34)

Tony Clark (37)

Carlos Delgado (37) - $12MM club option for '09 with a $4MM buyout (unlikely to vest)

Nomar Garciaparra (35)

Jason Giambi (38) - $22MM club option for '09 with a $5MM buyout

Wes Helms (33) - $3.75MM club option for '09 with a $0.75MM buyout

Eric Hinske (31)

Doug Mientkiewicz (35)

Kevin Millar (37)

Richie Sexson (34)

Mark Teixeira (29)

Daryle Ward (34)

 

Second basemen

Willie Bloomquist (31)

Geoff Blum (36) - club option for '09

Jamey Carroll (35) - $2.5MM club option for '09 with a $0.15MM buyout

Craig Counsell (38)

Ray Durham (37)

Damion Easley (39)

David Eckstein (34)

Mark Ellis (32)

Mark Grudzielanek (39)

Jerry Hairston Jr. (33)

Orlando Hudson (31)

Tadahito Iguchi (34)

Jeff Kent (41)

Felipe Lopez (29)

Mark Loretta (37)

Nick Punto (31)

 

Shortstops

Willie Bloomquist (31)

Orlando Cabrera (34)

Alex Cintron (30)

Alex Cora (33)

Craig Counsell (38)

David Eckstein (34)

Adam Everett (32)

Rafael Furcal (31)

Nomar Garciaparra (35)

Jerry Hairston Jr. (33)

Cesar Izturis (29)

Felipe Lopez (29)

Edgar Renteria (33) - $12MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout

Juan Uribe (30)

Ramon Vazquez (32)

Omar Vizquel (42) - $5.2MM club option for '09 with a $0.3MM buyout

 

Third basemen

Rich Aurilia (37)

Casey Blake (35)

Hank Blalock (28) - $6.2MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout

Willie Bloomquist (31)

Geoff Blum (36) - club option for '09

Aaron Boone (36)

Russell Branyan (33)

Craig Counsell (38)

Joe Crede (31)

Nomar Garciaparra (35)

Wes Helms (33) - $3.75MM club option for '09

Chipper Jones (37) - $8-11MM vesting option for '09

Fernando Tatis (34)

Ramon Vazquez (32)

 

Left fielders

Moises Alou (42)

Garret Anderson (37) - $14MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout

Milton Bradley (31)

Emil Brown (34)

Pat Burrell (32)

Carl Crawford (27) - $8.25MM club option for '09 with a $2.5MM buyout

Adam Dunn (29)

Cliff Floyd (36) - $2.75MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout

Luis Gonzalez (41)

Jerry Hairston Jr. (33)

Raul Ibanez (37)

Gabe Kapler (33)

Kevin Mench (31)

Jason Michaels (33) - $2.6MM club option for '09

Craig Monroe (32)

Greg Norton (36)

Jay Payton (36)

Wily Mo Pena (27) - $5MM club option or $2MM player option for '09

Manny Ramirez (37)

Juan Rivera (30)

Fernando Tatis (34)

 

Center fielders

Rocco Baldelli (27)

Willie Bloomquist (31)

Mike Cameron (36) - $10MM club option for '09 with a $750K buyout

Jim Edmonds (39)

Jerry Hairston Jr. (33)

Gabe Kapler (33)

Mark Kotsay (33)

Corey Patterson (29)

Scott Podsednik (33)

 

Right fielders

Bobby Abreu (35)

Casey Blake (35)

Cliff Floyd (36) - $2.75MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout

Brian Giles (38) - $9MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout

Ken Griffey Jr. (39) - $16.5MM club option for '09 with a $4MM buyout

Vladimir Guerrero (33) - $15MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout

Gabe Kapler (33)

Jason Michaels (33) - $2.6MM club option for '09

Fernando Tatis (34)

Brad Wilkerson (32)

 

DHs

Milton Bradley (31)

Pat Burrell (32)

Adam Dunn (29)

Cliff Floyd (36) - $2.75MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout

Jason Giambi (38) - $22MM club option for '09 with $5MM buyout

Vladimir Guerrero (33) - $15MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout

Raul Ibanez (37)

Manny Ramirez (37)

Juan Rivera (30)

Mike Sweeney (35)

Frank Thomas (41)

Jim Thome (38) - $13MM club option for '09 with $3MM buyout; vests with 564 PAs in '08

Jose Vidro (34)

 

Starting pitchers

Kris Benson (33)

A.J. Burnett (32) - can opt out after '08 season

Paul Byrd (38)

Roger Clemens (46)

Matt Clement (33)

Bartolo Colon (36)

Ryan Dempster (32)

Shawn Estes (36)

Josh Fogg (32)

Freddy Garcia (33)

Jon Garland (29)

Tom Glavine (43)

Mike Hampton (36)

Mark Hendrickson (35)

Livan Hernandez (34)

Orlando Hernandez (43)

Jason Jennings (30)

Randy Johnson (45)

John Lackey (30) - $9MM club option for '09 with a $0.5MM buyout

Jon Lieber (39)

Kyle Lohse (30)

Braden Looper (34)

Rodrigo Lopez (33) - club option for '09

Derek Lowe (36)

Greg Maddux (43)

Pedro Martinez (37)

Jamie Moyer (46)

Mark Mulder (31) - $11MM club option for '09 with a $1.5MM buyout

Mike Mussina (40)

Carl Pavano (33) - $13MM club option for '09 with a $1.95MM buyout

Brad Penny (31) - $8.75MM club option for '09 with a $2MM buyout

Odalis Perez (32)

Oliver Perez (27)

Andy Pettitte (37)

Sidney Ponson (32)

Mark Prior (27)

Kenny Rogers (44)

C.C. Sabathia (28)

Curt Schilling (42)

Ben Sheets (30)

John Smoltz (42)

Tim Wakefield (42) - perpetual $4MM club option

Kip Wells (32)

Randy Wolf (32)

 

Closers

Brian Fuentes (33)

Eric Gagne (33)

Eddie Guardado (38)

Trevor Hoffman (41)

Jason Isringhausen (36)

Todd Jones (41)

Brandon Lyon (29)

Francisco Rodriguez (27)

Salomon Torres (37) - $3.75MM club option for '09 with a $0.3MM buyout

Kerry Wood (32)

 

Middle relievers

Jeremy Affeldt (30)

Luis Ayala (31)

Joe Beimel (32)

Joe Borowski (38)

Doug Brocail (42) - club option for '09

Shawn Chacon (31)

Juan Cruz (30)

Alan Embree (39) - $3MM club option for '09

Scott Eyre (37)

Kyle Farnsworth (33)

Casey Fossum (31)

Keith Foulke (35)

Tom Gordon (41) - $4.5MM club option for '09 with a $1MM buyout

LaTroy Hawkins (36)

Mark Hendrickson (35)

Matt Herges (39) - club option for '09

Bob Howry (35)

Jon Lieber (39)

Jason Johnson (35)

Damaso Marte (34) - $6MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout

Trever Miller (36) - $2MM club option for '09 with a $0.4MM buyout

Guillermo Mota (35)

Will Ohman (31)

Darren Oliver (38)

Chan Ho Park (36)

Horacio Ramirez (29)

Al Reyes (38)

Dennys Reyes (32)

Arthur Rhodes (39)

Juan Rincon (30)

Rudy Seanez (40)

Brian Shouse (40)

Russ Springer (40)

Mike Timlin (43)

Ron Villone (39)

David Weathers (39)

Kip Wells (32)

Matt Wise (33)

Jamey Wright (34)

 

ok Erick...this is just an example. all the players in bold...say we signed them. would it make us better? honestly i believe so.....ifi t makes us better we win more games which= fans. lets say we somehow lock up each and evry player for 5 years.....that shows the fans devotion, during those 5 years the team is going to win games and hopefully go to playoffs each year for a chance at the ring. i bolded ayala because i wouldn't nd him in our bullpen. i hope i explained myself a bit better

 

 

That's really unrealistic, though.

 

Out of all the guys you mentioned...I'd take one, and his name is actually Will Ohman.

 

The others might be big names...but they're either a) not needed or b) getting ridiculous contracts.

Ohman will be dead by the time Bobby Cox is done with him

Ohman will be dead by the time Bobby Cox is done with him

 

 

True! :lol

The only guy I see the marlins looking LEGITIMATELY at is Brandon Lyons, he will be affordable and would be a good upgrade in the pen

Oh good another attendance is crap thread, haven't had one of these in a week or so. The funny thing is usually when someone complains about the Marlins attendance and about how nobody goes to the games they themsevles weren't at said game or rarely go to games.

Btw, regarding the original topic, this has a lot more to do with the fans than the ownership.

 

All you need to know was that the Marlins were ranked 28th in attendance, at just 16,290 per game...in 2003.

 

Say what you want about Loria never showing a devotion to winning to his fans...(which I believe is wrong, considering he HAS paid for some free agents...more than past owners)...but the bottom line is, the fans haven't shown consistent interest in the franchise, either.

 

And the Marlins have been competitive even after the "so-called fire-sale" in '05.

...tell that to the Dodgers.

 

 

Tell that to all of the Dodger's players besides Manny, who have been hitting .264 since Ramirez has arrived.

Btw, regarding the original topic, this has a lot more to do with the fans than the ownership.

 

All you need to know was that the Marlins were ranked 28th in attendance, at just 16,290 per game...in 2003.

 

Say what you want about Loria never showing a devotion to winning to his fans...which I believe is wrong, considering he HAS paid for some free agents (more than past owners)...but the bottom line is, the fans haven't shown consistent interest in the franchise, either.

 

And the Marlins have been competitive even after the "so-called fire-sale" in '05.

 

we were competitive because we have the best scouts in baseball and are the masters at trades and building teams through the draft, once they become big names though we always ship them off for more prospects

...tell that to the Dodgers.

 

 

Tell that to all of the Dodger's players besides Manny, who have been hitting .264 since Ramirez has arrived.

 

 

Ok...you basically just proved my point.

Who has hit for the Marlins, consistently, in the 2nd half? It would be the same situation.

Btw, regarding the original topic, this has a lot more to do with the fans than the ownership.

 

All you need to know was that the Marlins were ranked 28th in attendance, at just 16,290 per game...in 2003.

 

Say what you want about Loria never showing a devotion to winning to his fans...(which I believe is wrong, considering he HAS paid for some free agents...more than past owners)...but the bottom line is, the fans haven't shown consistent interest in the franchise, either.

 

And the Marlins have been competitive even after the "so-called fire-sale" in '05.

 

 

Higher expectations = More season tickets.

Btw, regarding the original topic, this has a lot more to do with the fans than the ownership.

 

All you need to know was that the Marlins were ranked 28th in attendance, at just 16,290 per game...in 2003.

 

Say what you want about Loria never showing a devotion to winning to his fans...which I believe is wrong, considering he HAS paid for some free agents (more than past owners)...but the bottom line is, the fans haven't shown consistent interest in the franchise, either.

 

And the Marlins have been competitive even after the "so-called fire-sale" in '05.

 

we were competitive because we have the best scouts in baseball and are the masters at trades and building teams through the draft, once they become big names though we always ship them off for more prospects

 

 

...and? Loria HAS BROUGHT "big names" here (Pudge, Delgado)...and it has done nothing for attendance.

At the end of the day, it's not about "big names." It's not even about "hot weather..." It's about making the playoffs, for people to jump on the bandwagon.

...tell that to the Dodgers.

 

 

Tell that to all of the Dodger's players besides Manny, who have been hitting .264 since Ramirez has arrived.

 

 

Ok...you basically just proved my point.

Who has hit for the Marlins, consistently, in the 2nd half? It would be the same situation.

 

 

Wait a minute, you're confusing me.

 

I was trying to tell Rab how one player could make a huge difference, for instance, Manny.

 

The only reason why he hasn't made a difference is because the rest of his team is only hitting .264 since he arrived.

Btw, regarding the original topic, this has a lot more to do with the fans than the ownership.

 

All you need to know was that the Marlins were ranked 28th in attendance, at just 16,290 per game...in 2003.

 

Say what you want about Loria never showing a devotion to winning to his fans...(which I believe is wrong, considering he HAS paid for some free agents...more than past owners)...but the bottom line is, the fans haven't shown consistent interest in the franchise, either.

 

And the Marlins have been competitive even after the "so-called fire-sale" in '05.

 

 

Higher expectations = More season tickets.

 

 

2003 = World Series Champions

2003 attendance = well below average, until the playoffs began.

Btw, regarding the original topic, this has a lot more to do with the fans than the ownership.

 

All you need to know was that the Marlins were ranked 28th in attendance, at just 16,290 per game...in 2003.

 

Say what you want about Loria never showing a devotion to winning to his fans...(which I believe is wrong, considering he HAS paid for some free agents...more than past owners)...but the bottom line is, the fans haven't shown consistent interest in the franchise, either.

 

And the Marlins have been competitive even after the "so-called fire-sale" in '05.

 

 

Higher expectations = More season tickets.

 

 

2003 = World Series Champions

2003 attendance = well below average, until the playoffs began.

 

 

I can guarantee you that if we are predicted to contend for the Championship next year, we will sell way more than 5,000 season tickets.

...tell that to the Dodgers.

 

 

Tell that to all of the Dodger's players besides Manny, who have been hitting .264 since Ramirez has arrived.

 

 

Ok...you basically just proved my point.

Who has hit for the Marlins, consistently, in the 2nd half? It would be the same situation.

 

 

Wait a minute, you're confusing me.

 

I was trying to tell Rab how one player could make a huge difference, for instance, Manny.

 

The only reason why he hasn't made a difference is because the rest of his team is only hitting .264 since he arrived.

 

 

And the Marlins are hitting .240 as a team, in the 2nd half. What makes you think Manny would've been such a huge boost to the lineup, if the rest of the team is hitting .240?

 

Btw....264 isn't a bad average. It's above the NL league average (.260).

Btw, regarding the original topic, this has a lot more to do with the fans than the ownership.

 

All you need to know was that the Marlins were ranked 28th in attendance, at just 16,290 per game...in 2003.

 

Say what you want about Loria never showing a devotion to winning to his fans...which I believe is wrong, considering he HAS paid for some free agents (more than past owners)...but the bottom line is, the fans haven't shown consistent interest in the franchise, either.

 

And the Marlins have been competitive even after the "so-called fire-sale" in '05.

 

we were competitive because we have the best scouts in baseball and are the masters at trades and building teams through the draft, once they become big names though we always ship them off for more prospects

 

 

...and? Loria HAS BROUGHT "big names" here (Pudge, Delgado)...and it has done nothing for attendance.

At the end of the day, it's not about "big names." It's not even about "hot weather..." It's about making the playoffs, for people to jump on the bandwagon.

 

duh, I feel the biggest point is history, people go to Yankee stadium, Fenway, and Wrigley because of the history that goes along with it. People feel that when they get season tickets they may be a part of history. They feel a part of the team. The marlins are still too young of a franchise to build a large fanbase around. I do believe a ballpark for many years would bring fans to the games just because they will know where it is, grow a sort of bond to the team and feel like the want to go to the games because it is just a natural routine, there needs to be history to build a consistent fanbase

Btw, regarding the original topic, this has a lot more to do with the fans than the ownership.

 

All you need to know was that the Marlins were ranked 28th in attendance, at just 16,290 per game...in 2003.

 

Say what you want about Loria never showing a devotion to winning to his fans...(which I believe is wrong, considering he HAS paid for some free agents...more than past owners)...but the bottom line is, the fans haven't shown consistent interest in the franchise, either.

 

And the Marlins have been competitive even after the "so-called fire-sale" in '05.

 

 

Higher expectations = More season tickets.

 

 

2003 = World Series Champions

2003 attendance = well below average, until the playoffs began.

 

 

I can guarantee you that if we are predicted to contend for the Championship next year, we will sell way more than 5,000 season tickets.

 

 

...which proves my point b/c that's what I'd call fairweather fans.

REAL fans come win or lose.

 

Ask Cub fans if they care about "the weather." Ask Cub fans if they wouldn't love to have the 2 World Series Titles the Marlins got in a 6 year span. Then tell those same Cub fans..."thanks." B/c if not for the series with them, the attendance figures would look even more pathetic.

 

It's not a knock on us (on this board)...it's just a fact. The Marlins fanbase, in general, isn't big.

...tell that to the Dodgers.

 

 

Tell that to all of the Dodger's players besides Manny, who have been hitting .264 since Ramirez has arrived.

 

 

Ok...you basically just proved my point.

Who has hit for the Marlins, consistently, in the 2nd half? It would be the same situation.

 

 

Wait a minute, you're confusing me.

 

I was trying to tell Rab how one player could make a huge difference, for instance, Manny.

 

The only reason why he hasn't made a difference is because the rest of his team is only hitting .264 since he arrived.

 

 

And the Marlins are hitting .240 as a team, in the 2nd half. What makes you think Manny would've been such a huge boost to the lineup, if the rest of the team is hitting .240?

 

Btw....264 isn't a bad average. It's above the NL league average (.260).

 

 

When Manny is hitting for a .414 average, and that is what the rest of the team hits, I call that lack of support.

 

If Manny was a Marlin, we would still be in contention.

When Manny is hitting for a .414 average, and that is what the rest of the team hits, I call that lack of support.

 

If Manny was a Marlin, we would still be in contention.

 

 

You just completely ignored the point...and basically ignored your original statement.

 

Let me get this straight...the Dodgers aren't winning b/c everyone else in the Dodger lineup (aside from Manny) has hit .264, since he got there. Yet...the Marlins would still be playoff contenders b/c everyone else besides Manny would be batting .240, since the All-Star Break. :confused

 

Makes no sense.

Btw, regarding the original topic, this has a lot more to do with the fans than the ownership.

 

All you need to know was that the Marlins were ranked 28th in attendance, at just 16,290 per game...in 2003.

 

Say what you want about Loria never showing a devotion to winning to his fans...which I believe is wrong, considering he HAS paid for some free agents (more than past owners)...but the bottom line is, the fans haven't shown consistent interest in the franchise, either.

 

And the Marlins have been competitive even after the "so-called fire-sale" in '05.

 

we were competitive because we have the best scouts in baseball and are the masters at trades and building teams through the draft, once they become big names though we always ship them off for more prospects

 

 

...and? Loria HAS BROUGHT "big names" here (Pudge, Delgado)...and it has done nothing for attendance.

At the end of the day, it's not about "big names." It's not even about "hot weather..." It's about making the playoffs, for people to jump on the bandwagon.

 

duh, I feel the biggest point is history, people go to Yankee stadium, Fenway, and Wrigley because of the history that goes along with it. People feel that when they get season tickets they may be a part of history. They feel a part of the team. The marlins are still too young of a franchise to build a large fanbase around. I do believe a ballpark for many years would bring fans to the games just because they will know where it is, grow a sort of bond to the team and feel like the want to go to the games because it is just a natural routine, there needs to be history to build a consistent fanbase