August 6, 200916 yr Author So why does it have to be a veteran? If we have Russell Branyan, who would be a veteran presence, how does that do what you want? im not saying just any veteran. im saying a veteran contact hitter. So, you don't want a "veteran presence" as you've been saying, but a "contact hitter" (Which, age does not matter) tell me, how many young contact hitter do you know that are available. and id rather have a veteran contact hitter any way. just someone who will walk a lot and not k
August 6, 200916 yr Uh, no it isnt, your team has no veteran middle of the rotation arm and no veteran presence in the lineup. You alsoforget about the diamonds in the rough the fo finds in the bullpen ugh. I'm tired of hearing "veteran hitter" or whatever. Talent is talent. You can be a rookie or a 10+ year veteran and the only way you will play is if you have the talent to play. Plus, next season will be Hanley's 5th full season. Cantu has played in 612 games to date which averages to almost 4 full seasons which means next season could be his 5th full season aswell. we dont NEED a veteran hitter. we need talent. no its not. we have plenty of talent in he minors. we need a veteran guy who has been there and done that. how many teams do you see with serious championship possibilities with a starting lineup of nobody over 27? every team needs a veteran presence in the lineup who has proved himself in the majors Last year's Rays didn't have anyone over 29, unless you count Cliff Floyd who only had 284 PA. Cliff Floyd and Carlos Pena. And adding Troy Percival showed a commitment to that team and that the front office believed they could win, which along with other factors made the team believe. This team doesn't believe, because every year since 2006 we have gone out with less than we've had the year before. While this team plays winning baseball in good stretches, down the actual stretch they seem to fold. Those saying we don't need veterans and that talent wins are fooling themselves. Talent is pretty useless down the stretch if it folds. Ideally, you mix good young talent with good veterans who can provide a stabilizing presence and just as importantly a reinforced belief that the team can win. Pudge was that guy in 2003. There were differences between that club and this year club, mainly fundamentals, but having one good veteran bat in the lineup the entire season (not just for the last two months of a season when a team's identity and mindset has already been forged) can do wonders.
August 6, 200916 yr So why does it have to be a veteran? If we have Russell Branyan, who would be a veteran presence, how does that do what you want? im not saying just any veteran. im saying a veteran contact hitter. So, you don't want a "veteran presence" as you've been saying, but a "contact hitter" (Which, age does not matter) tell me, how many young contact hitter do you know that are available. and id rather have a veteran contact hitter any way. just someone who will walk a lot and not k Too many to take the time to name. But you can just as easily go to some place like fan graphs, sort by K%, and look at those. Considering the league average K% is 20%, just look at all the young hitters under 20% Ks. The concept that you need to be a veteran to be a contact hitter is just obscene. Players don't suddenly become contact hitters as they age. As a hitter, you are what you are.
August 6, 200916 yr Author So why does it have to be a veteran? If we have Russell Branyan, who would be a veteran presence, how does that do what you want? im not saying just any veteran. im saying a veteran contact hitter. So, you don't want a "veteran presence" as you've been saying, but a "contact hitter" (Which, age does not matter) tell me, how many young contact hitter do you know that are available. and id rather have a veteran contact hitter any way. just someone who will walk a lot and not k Too many to take the time to name. But you can just as easily go to some place like fan graphs, sort by K%, and look at those. Considering the league average K% is 20%, just look at all the young hitters under 20% Ks. The concept that you need to be a veteran to be a contact hitter is just obscene. Players don't suddenly become contact hitters as they age. As a hitter, you are what you are. i never said they do. but id take a guy with experience and has proved himself over the course of many years and brings that clubhouse presence and veteran leadership
August 7, 200916 yr Morrison will not start at 1B next season. Just not happening. Cantu, Uggla, Hermida are gone. Gaby, Coghlan, and Maybin in the starting lineup.
August 7, 200916 yr Morrison will not start at 1B next season. Just not happening. Cantu, Uggla, Hermida are gone. Gaby, Coghlan, and Maybin in the starting lineup. Beinfest himself said Logan would compete for a job in ST. I would not be surprised in the least if he got the Gaby treatment (his job to lose in ST), in fact I'd be surprised if that didn't happen..
August 7, 200916 yr maybin CF coghlan 2nd hanley ss cantu 3rd johnson 1st ross RF morrison LF baker C pitcher
August 7, 200916 yr Who are you cutting from Johnson, Nolasco, or all four of of Miller, Lindstrom, Nunez, and Pinto, to afford Johnson, Ross, and Cantu. Unless you think payroll goes to $45 million.
August 7, 200916 yr I'm not sure I want Sanchez playing every day. Nothing about him is terribly exciting and playing 1B with his projected numbers basically make him a league average player. I think Hermida, Uggla, and N.Johnson are basically gone. I'd hope to keep Ross and hope the FO has enough money to keep Cantu. I would prefer if we don't need to have Boni or Carrol starting every day. Unfortunately the pieces don't really fit together and it looks like we're going to have one of Boni/Carrol/Sanchez playing every day. If this is the case I wont be terribly high on the 2010 team as a lack of pitching depth and an unimproved/inexperienced lineup will mean we should have more or less the same results as this year's team.
August 7, 200916 yr 1. Sell the Players : Uggla and Hermida. (not Cantu.) 2. Hire some "Lefty" regular conner outfielder : Whoever veteran or not, I recommend Logan Morrison. 3. Looking for "certain" pitchers Others : Reinforce our weakest position, 3rd baseman and catcher(defensively).
August 7, 200916 yr i think people really disvalue BC's defensive impact. his fielding saves many runs, and that makeup for his slightly-below-average bat
August 7, 200916 yr Uh, no it isnt, your team has no veteran middle of the rotation arm and no veteran presence in the lineup. You alsoforget about the diamonds in the rough the fo finds in the bullpen ugh. I'm tired of hearing "veteran hitter" or whatever. Talent is talent. You can be a rookie or a 10+ year veteran and the only way you will play is if you have the talent to play. Plus, next season will be Hanley's 5th full season. Cantu has played in 612 games to date which averages to almost 4 full seasons which means next season could be his 5th full season aswell. we dont NEED a veteran hitter. we need talent. no its not. we have plenty of talent in he minors. we need a veteran guy who has been there and done that. how many teams do you see with serious championship possibilities with a starting lineup of nobody over 27? every team needs a veteran presence in the lineup who has proved himself in the majors Last year's Rays didn't have anyone over 29, unless you count Cliff Floyd who only had 284 PA. Cliff Floyd and Carlos Pena. And adding Troy Percival showed a commitment to that team and that the front office believed they could win, which along with other factors made the team believe. This team doesn't believe, because every year since 2006 we have gone out with less than we've had the year before. While this team plays winning baseball in good stretches, down the actual stretch they seem to fold. Those saying we don't need veterans and that talent wins are fooling themselves. Talent is pretty useless down the stretch if it folds. Ideally, you mix good young talent with good veterans who can provide a stabilizing presence and just as importantly a reinforced belief that the team can win. Pudge was that guy in 2003. There were differences between that club and this year club, mainly fundamentals, but having one good veteran bat in the lineup the entire season (not just for the last two months of a season when a team's identity and mindset has already been forged) can do wonders. As I said, Floyd barely played last year, and Pena turned 30 during the season. We added Nick Johnson. The FO has shown a commitment that they want to win this year, otherwise they wouldn't have made a move. Talent is talent. It makes no difference whether a guy is 25, 30 or 35. Talent doesn't fold, or disappear. You either have it or you don't, it's that simple. To say a guy can improve a team just by being experienced and being a veteran is idiotic.
August 7, 200916 yr i think people really disvalue BC's defensive impact. his fielding saves many runs, and that makeup for his slightly-below-average bat I definitely agree that Brett does a fantastic job and his defense helps a lot.
August 7, 200916 yr C- Baker/Paulino 1B- Morrison 2B- Coghlan SS- Hanley 3B- Adrian Beltre RF- Carrol CF- Maybin LF- Ross Bench: Gaby Sanchez, Wes Helms, Bonifacio, LF/RF Power bat Starting Pitching: 1. JJ 2. Nolasco 3. Volstad 4. Miller 5. ? Bullpen: Nunez( CL), Lindstrom, Meyer, LOOGY, Tucker, Badenhop, VandenHurk Should make us MUCH better defensively in the infield. And shoul give us the best defense in the Outfield. Hitting wise, I don't feel confident with Morrison and Maybin starting, but we have to give them a chance. They are killing the minors, and should be given a chance to start. I feel confident enough to start Coghlan, Carrol, Baker/Paulino, Hanley, and Ross because I know what I'm getting from them. My suprise signing was Adrian Beltre. I don't know how much he's asking for, but I would love it if this FO signed him. Terrific defensively and would give us a .750 OPS bat, which isn't terrible. Like Lou said, trade Uggla, Cantu, Hermida, Anibal, and Amezaga for as much young pitching you can acquire.
August 7, 200916 yr C- Baker/Paulino 1B- Morrison 2B- Coghlan SS- Hanley 3B- Adrian Beltre RF- Carrol CF- Maybin LF- Ross Bench: Gaby Sanchez, Wes Helms, Bonifacio, LF/RF Power bat Starting Pitching: 1. JJ 2. Nolasco 3. Volstad 4. Miller 5. ? Bullpen: Nunez( CL), Calero, Meyer, LOOGY, Tucker, Badenhop, VandenHurk Should make us MUCH better defensively in the infield. And shoul give us the best defense in the Outfield. Hitting wise, I don't feel confident with Morrison and Maybin starting, but we have to give them a chance. They are killing the minors, and should be given a chance to start. I feel confident enough to start Coghlan, Carrol, Baker/Paulino, Hanley, and Ross because I know what I'm getting from them. My suprise signing was Adrian Beltre. I don't know how much he's asking for, but I would love it if this FO signed him. Terrific defensively and would give us a .750 OPS bat, which isn't terrible. Like Lou said, trade Uggla, Cantu, Hermida, Anibal, and Amezaga for as much young pitching you can acquire. only thing i would say is what if we find out early in the season that morrison isnt ready? then what put gaby in and have him start? i would rather not get rid of cantu unless we get a good starter prospect or proven
August 7, 200916 yr C- Baker/Paulino 1B- Morrison 2B- Coghlan SS- Hanley 3B- Adrian Beltre RF- Carrol CF- Maybin LF- Ross Bench: Gaby Sanchez, Wes Helms, Bonifacio, LF/RF Power bat Starting Pitching: 1. JJ 2. Nolasco 3. Volstad 4. Miller 5. ? Bullpen: Nunez( CL), Calero, Meyer, LOOGY, Tucker, Badenhop, VandenHurk Should make us MUCH better defensively in the infield. And shoul give us the best defense in the Outfield. Hitting wise, I don't feel confident with Morrison and Maybin starting, but we have to give them a chance. They are killing the minors, and should be given a chance to start. I feel confident enough to start Coghlan, Carrol, Baker/Paulino, Hanley, and Ross because I know what I'm getting from them. My suprise signing was Adrian Beltre. I don't know how much he's asking for, but I would love it if this FO signed him. Terrific defensively and would give us a .750 OPS bat, which isn't terrible. Like Lou said, trade Uggla, Cantu, Hermida, Anibal, and Amezaga for as much young pitching you can acquire. Paulino is going to hit arbitration. It's unlikely he is back. You have to imagine they find a more defensive backup, or go to Brett Hayes, as well. Calero will be a free agent and will certainly command a multi-year deal after this year. Combined with our glut of RP options, he won't be back. You also are just dumping Lindstrom, who the organization loves. Beltre should probably command a multi year deal, just like Pedro Feliz eventually got. The Marlins don't need to be signing a guy like that for 2-3 years. I also wonder if you can find a LRP better than Pinto (3.64 era career, very solid) for the money he'll command, $800k or so. They could acquire a young one in a trade, or find another Meyer in the Rule5, waivers, or minor free agent acquisitions, but the odds are stacked against us there.
August 7, 200916 yr Is it just me or is the board IQ lowering by the day? I think after getting swept by the nats some people have been hitting the bottle a little to much.
August 7, 200916 yr Morrison will not start at 1B next season. Just not happening. Cantu, Uggla, Hermida are gone. Gaby, Coghlan, and Maybin in the starting lineup. Beinfest himself said Logan would compete for a job in ST. I would not be surprised in the least if he got the Gaby treatment (his job to lose in ST), in fact I'd be surprised if that didn't happen.. Wouldn't he have to suck it up pretty bad in ST to lose it?
August 7, 200916 yr C- Baker/Paulino 1B- Morrison 2B- Coghlan SS- Hanley 3B- Adrian Beltre RF- Carrol CF- Maybin LF- Ross Bench: Gaby Sanchez, Wes Helms, Bonifacio, LF/RF Power bat Starting Pitching: 1. JJ 2. Nolasco 3. Volstad 4. Miller 5. ? Bullpen: Nunez( CL), Calero, Meyer, LOOGY, Tucker, Badenhop, VandenHurk Should make us MUCH better defensively in the infield. And shoul give us the best defense in the Outfield. Hitting wise, I don't feel confident with Morrison and Maybin starting, but we have to give them a chance. They are killing the minors, and should be given a chance to start. I feel confident enough to start Coghlan, Carrol, Baker/Paulino, Hanley, and Ross because I know what I'm getting from them. My suprise signing was Adrian Beltre. I don't know how much he's asking for, but I would love it if this FO signed him. Terrific defensively and would give us a .750 OPS bat, which isn't terrible. Like Lou said, trade Uggla, Cantu, Hermida, Anibal, and Amezaga for as much young pitching you can acquire. Paulino is going to hit arbitration. It's unlikely he is back. You have to imagine they find a more defensive backup, or go to Brett Hayes, as well. Calero will be a free agent and will certainly command a multi-year deal after this year. Combined with our glut of RP options, he won't be back. You also are just dumping Lindstrom, who the organization loves. Beltre should probably command a multi year deal, just like Pedro Feliz eventually got. The Marlins don't need to be signing a guy like that for 2-3 years. I also wonder if you can find a LRP better than Pinto (3.64 era career, very solid) for the money he'll command, $800k or so. They could acquire a young one in a trade, or find another Meyer in the Rule5, waivers, or minor free agent acquisitions, but the odds are stacked against us there. I asked this the other day, and I'm not sure if it was answered...but what's going to happen now with the relievers? With Lindstrom and Nunez both racking up save #'s all of the sudden, isn't this going to hurt us a bit in arbritration? I mean, they'll both get nice raises now just for getting saves, no? What do you expect both of those guys to get come arbritration time?
August 7, 200916 yr I asked this the other day, and I'm not sure if it was answered...but what's going to happen now with the relievers? With Lindstrom and Nunez both racking up save #'s all of the sudden, isn't this going to hurt us a bit in arbritration? I mean, they'll both get nice raises now just for getting saves, no? What do you expect both of those guys to get come arbritration time? The reality of it is if we were expecting Lindstrom higher, and Nunez lower, coming into the year, we can now expect Lindstrom lower and Nunez higher, effectively canceling out "the bottom line." So will it have an effect? Not really. Just the money will be more evenly split. I am working no arbitration estimates. You'll know when it gets posted. It'll be like 15 pages long.
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