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Still think Nunez can be an effective closer?

Sirspud

By Sirspud
in Miami Marlins

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Sirspud Marlin

Sirspud

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I've said it before and I'll say it again, Leo Nunez is never going to be a good closer in the major leagues. You can spin it any way you want by trying to pull out some stat that doesn't show the full story, but the fact of the matter is that Leo Nunez does not have the composure to be a closer. I'm not going to try and bring out a bunch of stats to make an argument, I'm just going to say plain out that Nunez is too prone to having bad outings through a combination of losing his command temporarily, or giving up big homers.

 

You can't switch closers with 8 games left, but this franchise really needs to at least acquire some potential closers in the offseason if they really expect to compete next year.

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Erick World Champion

Erick

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Coming into the night, Leo Nunez had had more success in the 9th inning (.710 .OPS against) than the 8th inning (.724 .OPS against).

This "closer," "composure" stuff is BS. He's blown games/given up HR's, regardless of the role he's been in.

 

Maybe if the closer's role didn't exist, managers would just be allowed to say "hey, it's the 9th inning, we have a 1 run lead, let me use my best reliever"...our best reliever isn't Nunez...isn't Lindstrom...it's Kiko Calero.

 

If this is strictly about the closer's role, why is it that Nunez has done the same thing in other roles? Maybe he's just been a mediocre reliever all year? Hmmm...

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Erick World Champion

Erick

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We traded Jacobs for a 2009 knock out of the playoffs.Thanks alot Beinfest.

 

 

 

You're mad over getting rid of a DH with a .705 .OPS this year?

 

Too bad we didn't get Jae Seo or John Burkett...

 

John Burkett should be our closer.He is a friend of my family and myself.Believe me he can still pitch.

 

Believe me, you should be banned.

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Sirspud Marlin

Sirspud

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Coming into the night, Leo Nunez had had more success in the 9th inning (.710 .OPS against) than the 8th inning (.724 .OPS against).

This "closer," "composure" stuff is BS. He's blown games/given up HR's, regardless of the role he's been in.

 

Maybe if the closer's role didn't exist, managers would just be allowed to say "hey, it's the 9th inning, we have a 1 run lead, let me use my best reliever"...our best reliever isn't Nunez...isn't Lindstrom...it's Kiko Calero.

 

If this is strictly about the closer's role, why is it that Nunez has done the same thing in other roles? Maybe he's just been a mediocre reliever all year? Hmmm...

 

 

You may be partially right- he is pretty much a mediocre reliever and my criticizing him in the closer role doesn't necessarily exclude him from poor performance at other positions.

 

The real thing is, his mediocrity is absolutely intolerable in the closer role because you just can't work around a closer like you can an erratic setup man. Sure, both can blow leads, but its easier to replace the setup man when he is off than the closer. And if the setup man blew the lead in the 8th, you have more chances to have your offense strike back.

 

There is no real reason why the closer role has to exist. Nunez was pretty much the de facto closer after closer by committee resulted in him getting more and more chances.

 

The funny thing about his OPS is that it may be better than when he wasn't closer, but the real problem with Nunez is that he can string together a couple outings without really allowing many baserunners, but he will have those bad outings where everything snowballs, he allows guys on a walk or some big homers, and he blows one.

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Erick World Champion

Erick

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Coming into the night, Leo Nunez had had more success in the 9th inning (.710 .OPS against) than the 8th inning (.724 .OPS against).

This "closer," "composure" stuff is BS. He's blown games/given up HR's, regardless of the role he's been in.

 

Maybe if the closer's role didn't exist, managers would just be allowed to say "hey, it's the 9th inning, we have a 1 run lead, let me use my best reliever"...our best reliever isn't Nunez...isn't Lindstrom...it's Kiko Calero.

 

If this is strictly about the closer's role, why is it that Nunez has done the same thing in other roles? Maybe he's just been a mediocre reliever all year? Hmmm...

 

 

You may be partially right- he is pretty much a mediocre reliever and my criticizing him in the closer role doesn't necessarily exclude him from poor performance at other positions.

 

The real thing is, his mediocrity is absolutely intolerable in the closer role because you just can't work around a closer like you can an erratic setup man. Sure, both can blow leads, but its easier to replace the setup man when he is off than the closer. And if the setup man blew the lead in the 8th, you have more chances to have your offense strike back.

 

There is no real reason why the closer role has to exist. Nunez was pretty much the de facto closer after closer by committee resulted in him getting more and more chances.

 

 

Exactly.

What should happen is...in the most important spots, your most important relievers should be used.

 

Look...I'm not saying it's not tough and that my grandma could close. However, most relievers (regardless of whether or not they are good) can "close" a 3 run lead, and get a save. That's part of the "closer's role."

 

Again...I ask. If the closer's role is so crucial, why is it that Leo Nunez is 24/28 this year in 9th inning save situations? Why is it that, despite a 1.9 WHIP at one point, Matt Lindstrom was able to go 14/16...and is now 15/17 overall, despite mediocre/bad statistics? I mean how difficult could the role possibly be that mediocre relievers, combined, can get the "job done" over 86% of the time?

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Sirspud Marlin

Sirspud

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Coming into the night, Leo Nunez had had more success in the 9th inning (.710 .OPS against) than the 8th inning (.724 .OPS against).

This "closer," "composure" stuff is BS. He's blown games/given up HR's, regardless of the role he's been in.

 

Maybe if the closer's role didn't exist, managers would just be allowed to say "hey, it's the 9th inning, we have a 1 run lead, let me use my best reliever"...our best reliever isn't Nunez...isn't Lindstrom...it's Kiko Calero.

 

If this is strictly about the closer's role, why is it that Nunez has done the same thing in other roles? Maybe he's just been a mediocre reliever all year? Hmmm...

 

 

You may be partially right- he is pretty much a mediocre reliever and my criticizing him in the closer role doesn't necessarily exclude him from poor performance at other positions.

 

The real thing is, his mediocrity is absolutely intolerable in the closer role because you just can't work around a closer like you can an erratic setup man. Sure, both can blow leads, but its easier to replace the setup man when he is off than the closer. And if the setup man blew the lead in the 8th, you have more chances to have your offense strike back.

 

There is no real reason why the closer role has to exist. Nunez was pretty much the de facto closer after closer by committee resulted in him getting more and more chances.

 

 

Exactly.

What should happen is...in the most important spots, your most important relievers should be used.

 

Look...I'm not saying it's not tough and that my grandma could close. However, most relievers (regardless of whether or not they are good) can "close" a 3 run lead, and get a save. That's part of the "closer's role."

 

Again...I ask. If the closer's role is so crucial, why is it that Leo Nunez is 24/28 this year in 9th inning save situations? Why is it that, despite a 1.9 WHIP at one point, Matt Lindstrom was able to go 14/16...and is now 15/17 overall, despite mediocre/bad statistics? I mean how difficult could the role possibly be that mediocre relievers, combined, can get the "job done" over 86% of the time?

 

The real problem there is that a save is counted the same whether it's a 3-run save or a 1-run save. We saw with both Lindstrom and Nunez that had a problem with letting a run or two score and still getting the save because they didn't blow a couple run lead. The real problem is that when you ask them to get a one run save, they really don't shut the door often enough.

 

I agree that it's not too hard for a reliever to go out and not give up a couple runs. When you're giving your closer a lot multiple run leads, there is a lot of room for error and therefore they can pitch pretty poorly and still get a save. But you need your closer to be capable of saving one run games, which neither of our closers did with any consistency this year. I think that the number of one run games we asked them to save was probably below average for a closer, hence their semi-reasonable save percentages.

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uberschnell Sky Carp

uberschnell

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Lindstrom will be better next year regardless of how bad he did this year. He will be better either with the Marlins or on another team. The way he got Gregged this year makes me think they are going to get rid of him....rightfully so.

 

The WBC and no spring training along with injuries hurt him....literally. He is the last option in the bullpen. When Donnelly was struggling he was throwing, but Brian Sanchez was warming up when Nunez was sucking. They should just send Lindstrom home and quit wasting his time.

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Erick World Champion

Erick

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Lindstrom will be better next year regardless of how bad he did this year. He will be better either with the Marlins or on another team. The way he got Gregged this year makes me think they are going to get rid of him....rightfully so.

 

The WBC and no spring training along with injuries hurt him....literally. He is the last option in the bullpen. When Donnelly was struggling he was throwing, but Brian Sanchez was warming up when Nunez was sucking. They should just send Lindstrom home and quit wasting his time.

 

 

 

What does that even mean?

 

Anyways, I wish I was in Lindstrom's shoes. "They should just send Lindstrom home and quit wasting his time?" Really? Lindstrom's getting good money just like everyone else to do a job...whether he's called on to do it or not is another story, but his job is to be there, and perform when called upon. It's not a "waste of time." My brother would kill to waste his time that way. Along with everyone here on this board, etc.

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Erick World Champion

Erick

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Erick, I understand what you are saying, but the manager does not know before hand when the most important inning of the game is going to occur. What if there are several important innings? How do you decide when to bring in your best reliever? Its not quite that simple.

 

 

 

It's a lot more simple when your starter gives you 7 innings, as Nolasco did tonight.

It doesn't get much more important than 1 run lead in the 9th.

 

I understand what you mean, but I just don't see that as the case tonight. But again...I don't blame Fredi. All managers seem to do this, even when their closer isn't their best reliever.

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