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Beinfest on the bullpen


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http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/06/12/1676412/the-view-from-above-relief-has.html

 

ST. PETERSBURG -- President of baseball operations Admin Beinfest gives high marks to the Marlins' starting pitchers while declaring the bullpen a disappointment so far -- assessments that hardly come as a great surprise.

 

``Our feeling is that if the starting pitching stays the way it has, we're going to hang in there and be competitive,'' Beinfest said Friday at Tropicana Field while watching the Marlins take batting practice.

 

The bullpen is another story, though.

 

Clay Hensley has proved to be a pleasant surprise to the Marlins in the set-up role, and Leo Nunez has become increasingly effective as their closer. But, for the most part, middle relief has been spotty to poor.

 

The Marlins brought in a handful of veteran free agents to spring training -- Seth McClung, Mike MacDougal and Jose Veras, among others -- who failed to pan out. But Beinfest said the failure of the in-house candidates to succeed, in particular lefty Dan Meyer and right-hander Burke Badenhop, has been a greater disappointment.

 

``We had guys who really pitched well last year and who struggled [this season],'' Beinfest said. ``Meyer's in the minor leagues and Badenhop's in the minor leagues and [Renyel] Pinto's on the DL. To me, that's been more of a challenge than maybe finding other people.''

 

Beinfest did not rule out the possibility of an eventual trade for relief help, but also noted that ``with relief needs, it's a competitive environment.''

 

``I would like to think we have people here,'' Beinfest said. ``We're not asking people to do something they haven't done. . . . Basically we had three guys that last year were very good and aren't here. We'll just keep trying.''

 

MADDON HAS DOUBTS ABOUT RIVALRY

 

Although the Marlins and Rays are characterized as ``natural rivals'' in interleague competition, not much of a rivalry exists between the Florida clubs.

 

Why, they even misplaced the ``Citrus Series'' trophy a few years ago.

 

Tampa Bay Rays manager Joe Maddon doubts that Marlins-Rays will ever become much of a rivalry, at least not on the scale of others, including Yankees-Mets, Cubs-White Sox, Dodgers-Angels and Giants-Athletics.

 

``I don't know that it can,'' Maddon said. ``I really believe a rivalry has to have a little more proximity in regards to miles.''

 

Like Marlins manager Fredi Gonzalez, Maddon favors the elimination of interleague play and the return to a balanced schedule, one in which teams would play fewer games within their own division.

 

``I understand why it is was attempted in the beginning,'' Maddon said of interleague play. ``But I don't know that the fans really relish it.''

 

As for playing fewer games within one's own division? ``It's not about playing the Yankees or Red Sox too much,'' Maddon said of the Rays' most formidable AL East foes. ``I don't want to play the Blue Jays that often. I don't want to play the Orioles that often. We see each other way too much.''

 

STAN VAN GUNDY ON STANTON: `AMAZING'

 

Count Orlando Magic coach Stan Van Gundy among those impressed with Marlins newcomer Mike Stanton. Van Gundy kept shaking his head in awe as Stanton belted one home run after another in batting practice on Friday.

 

``Amazing,'' Van Gundy said of Stanton. Van Gundy was a guest of Gonzalez, who share a friendship.

 

-- CLARK SPENCER

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Sounds to me like a signal that they have no intention of trading for relievers, and think that they can solve these problems in-house (which has worked SO well so far, guys).

 

I can understand it. West is coming back soon as a starter or reliever and him or Nate rob helps the pen. Pinto is coming back soon who is better than people give him credit for. If they can't get someone like Sanches or RVH to settle down, Leo and Hensley remain good, and maybe aggressively promote Jhan Marinez, this could work out internally.

 

I think they shouldn't be looking for a reliever until July 20th. one RP is not fixing things now and making the tram a sure contender. Let it play out and if there is a true need, go for it.

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While I think Maddon's done a good job managing the Rays, his comments about rivalries is assinine. If rivalries need more proximity, then the Rays will never have a rivalry because the Marlins are the closest team to the them. Most of the "classic" rivalries are close in distance because most are in the NE where the major cities are closely packed. Still, I'd like to point out that one of the biigest, all-time rivalries (Cubs/Cardinals) are another 20 miles apart than Miami/Tampa. Didn't stop them.

 

Personally, I think he's wrong- I think people do look forward to the Citrus series. There are a lot of Marlins fans statewide that just can't make it down to Miami all that much, but Tampa is "doable." The Rays have a lot of "new" fans that jumped on the bandwagon in '08 and think Tampa sports are superior to South Florida's. Give it time, and this rivalry will grow; never to the Yankees/Sox level, but it will be more than it is provided they don't break it down before then. I think Maddon's been drinking the Jim Leavitt juice (see UCF/USF, a natural rivalry between close schools with programs both on the rise, but he thought the Bulls were above the Knights and didn't renew the series).

 

I can understand the rationale for doing away with Interleague- it deprives a team of an extra series against all of your divisional opponents. However, I think it just makes the series you do have against them more important and it does allow the fans a chance to get to see teams and players they wouldn't get to see otherwise. Perhaps they scale it back to a home and away vs your territorial rival, and then 1 home and 1 away with whatever team(s) work based on where their last played series is. That should free up 1 or 2 extra series.

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What Beinfest doesn't realize is that guys like Meyer, Sanches, and even Calero all pitched better than their career averages last year. For him to think what they did last year was the norm is not really what a good GM should be thinking. Badenhop is a bit of a of a head scratcher, but again he's another guy who really didn't have much major league success before last year. None of these guys have sustained success.

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What Beinfest doesn't realize is that guys like Meyer, Sanches, and even Calero all pitched better than their career averages last year. For him to think what they did last year was the norm is not really what a good GM should be thinking. Badenhop is a bit of a of a head scratcher, but again he's another guy who really didn't have much major league success before last year. None of these guys have sustained success.

 

 

I'm pretty sure he knows that. In fact, he didn't keep Calero around. And even with some regression, Meyer should have still been at least an average RP, and Sanches the same, yet Meyer has been absolutely horrific.

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What Beinfest doesn't realize is that guys like Meyer, Sanches, and even Calero all pitched better than their career averages last year. For him to think what they did last year was the norm is not really what a good GM should be thinking. Badenhop is a bit of a of a head scratcher, but again he's another guy who really didn't have much major league success before last year. None of these guys have sustained success.

 

 

I'm pretty sure he knows that. In fact, he didn't keep Calero around. And even with some regression, Meyer should have still been at least an average RP, and Sanches the same, yet Meyer has been absolutely horrific.

 

Interesting that Calero has still not played a game in the majors this year. Is he hurt?

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While I think Maddon's done a good job managing the Rays, his comments about rivalries is assinine. If rivalries need more proximity, then the Rays will never have a rivalry because the Marlins are the closest team to the them. Most of the "classic" rivalries are close in distance because most are in the NE where the major cities are closely packed. Still, I'd like to point out that one of the biigest, all-time rivalries (Cubs/Cardinals) are another 20 miles apart than Miami/Tampa. Didn't stop them.

 

Personally, I think he's wrong- I think people do look forward to the Citrus series. There are a lot of Marlins fans statewide that just can't make it down to Miami all that much, but Tampa is "doable." The Rays have a lot of "new" fans that jumped on the bandwagon in '08 and think Tampa sports are superior to South Florida's. Give it time, and this rivalry will grow; never to the Yankees/Sox level, but it will be more than it is provided they don't break it down before then. I think Maddon's been drinking the Jim Leavitt juice (see UCF/USF, a natural rivalry between close schools with programs both on the rise, but he thought the Bulls were above the Knights and didn't renew the series).

 

I can understand the rationale for doing away with Interleague- it deprives a team of an extra series against all of your divisional opponents. However, I think it just makes the series you do have against them more important and it does allow the fans a chance to get to see teams and players they wouldn't get to see otherwise. Perhaps they scale it back to a home and away vs your territorial rival, and then 1 home and 1 away with whatever team(s) work based on where their last played series is. That should free up 1 or 2 extra series.

 

There really isn't a rivalry more to the fact that yes these games count, but there not against a division rival. The cubs/cards, sox/yanks, giants/dodgers, have 50+ years of seething hate built in also, but their games mattered more through the years.

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While I think Maddon's done a good job managing the Rays, his comments about rivalries is assinine. If rivalries need more proximity, then the Rays will never have a rivalry because the Marlins are the closest team to the them. Most of the "classic" rivalries are close in distance because most are in the NE where the major cities are closely packed. Still, I'd like to point out that one of the biigest, all-time rivalries (Cubs/Cardinals) are another 20 miles apart than Miami/Tampa. Didn't stop them.

 

Personally, I think he's wrong- I think people do look forward to the Citrus series. There are a lot of Marlins fans statewide that just can't make it down to Miami all that much, but Tampa is "doable." The Rays have a lot of "new" fans that jumped on the bandwagon in '08 and think Tampa sports are superior to South Florida's. Give it time, and this rivalry will grow; never to the Yankees/Sox level, but it will be more than it is provided they don't break it down before then. I think Maddon's been drinking the Jim Leavitt juice (see UCF/USF, a natural rivalry between close schools with programs both on the rise, but he thought the Bulls were above the Knights and didn't renew the series).

 

I can understand the rationale for doing away with Interleague- it deprives a team of an extra series against all of your divisional opponents. However, I think it just makes the series you do have against them more important and it does allow the fans a chance to get to see teams and players they wouldn't get to see otherwise. Perhaps they scale it back to a home and away vs your territorial rival, and then 1 home and 1 away with whatever team(s) work based on where their last played series is. That should free up 1 or 2 extra series.

 

There really isn't a rivalry more to the fact that yes these games count, but there not against a division rival. The cubs/cards, sox/yanks, giants/dodgers, have 50+ years of seething hate built in also, but their games mattered more through the years.

Marlins/Rays will never be a rivalry because the Rays will always be our bitch as little brothers should be. I heard after this season they're having a fire sale of their own. If that's true than we'll be back dominating them like we were up until a couple years ago.

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I too am for the elimination of interleague play.

 

 

Eh... they could definitely make interleague play a lot more exclusive... perhaps make it 1 series a season or something? Or maybe 2... home-and-home for all of the close teams such as the whitesox cubs, etc. etc.

 

stick it around the all-star game :p

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What Beinfest doesn't realize is that guys like Meyer, Sanches, and even Calero all pitched better than their career averages last year. For him to think what they did last year was the norm is not really what a good GM should be thinking. Badenhop is a bit of a of a head scratcher, but again he's another guy who really didn't have much major league success before last year. None of these guys have sustained success.

 

 

I'm pretty sure he knows that. In fact, he didn't keep Calero around. And even with some regression, Meyer should have still been at least an average RP, and Sanches the same, yet Meyer has been absolutely horrific.

 

Interesting that Calero has still not played a game in the majors this year. Is he hurt?

I think he was recently released by the Mets.

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While I think Maddon's done a good job managing the Rays, his comments about rivalries is assinine. If rivalries need more proximity, then the Rays will never have a rivalry because the Marlins are the closest team to the them. Most of the "classic" rivalries are close in distance because most are in the NE where the major cities are closely packed. Still, I'd like to point out that one of the biigest, all-time rivalries (Cubs/Cardinals) are another 20 miles apart than Miami/Tampa. Didn't stop them.

 

Personally, I think he's wrong- I think people do look forward to the Citrus series. There are a lot of Marlins fans statewide that just can't make it down to Miami all that much, but Tampa is "doable." The Rays have a lot of "new" fans that jumped on the bandwagon in '08 and think Tampa sports are superior to South Florida's. Give it time, and this rivalry will grow; never to the Yankees/Sox level, but it will be more than it is provided they don't break it down before then. I think Maddon's been drinking the Jim Leavitt juice (see UCF/USF, a natural rivalry between close schools with programs both on the rise, but he thought the Bulls were above the Knights and didn't renew the series).

 

I can understand the rationale for doing away with Interleague- it deprives a team of an extra series against all of your divisional opponents. However, I think it just makes the series you do have against them more important and it does allow the fans a chance to get to see teams and players they wouldn't get to see otherwise. Perhaps they scale it back to a home and away vs your territorial rival, and then 1 home and 1 away with whatever team(s) work based on where their last played series is. That should free up 1 or 2 extra series.

 

There really isn't a rivalry more to the fact that yes these games count, but there not against a division rival. The cubs/cards, sox/yanks, giants/dodgers, have 50+ years of seething hate built in also, but their games mattered more through the years.

Marlins/Rays will never be a rivalry because the Rays will always be our bitch as little brothers should be. I heard after this season they're having a fire sale of their own. If that's true than we'll be back dominating them like we were up until a couple years ago.

 

I don't know where you've heard of this firesale, but I live near Tampa and this is the first I've heard. The only thing close is that both Pena and Crawford are FAs at season's end and sadly Crawford is as good as gone while Pena is likely to now as well, but letting free agents walk doesn't equate to a firesale.

 

The truth is, with Pat Burrell gone most of their roster isn't very expensive. And they have the talent in their system to replace any veteran that they trade or let walk. They're system is actually far more productive than ours has ever been, as most of the time we've had young talent it was acquired expensively by trading already good players.

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While I think Maddon's done a good job managing the Rays, his comments about rivalries is assinine. If rivalries need more proximity, then the Rays will never have a rivalry because the Marlins are the closest team to the them. Most of the "classic" rivalries are close in distance because most are in the NE where the major cities are closely packed. Still, I'd like to point out that one of the biigest, all-time rivalries (Cubs/Cardinals) are another 20 miles apart than Miami/Tampa. Didn't stop them.

 

Personally, I think he's wrong- I think people do look forward to the Citrus series. There are a lot of Marlins fans statewide that just can't make it down to Miami all that much, but Tampa is "doable." The Rays have a lot of "new" fans that jumped on the bandwagon in '08 and think Tampa sports are superior to South Florida's. Give it time, and this rivalry will grow; never to the Yankees/Sox level, but it will be more than it is provided they don't break it down before then. I think Maddon's been drinking the Jim Leavitt juice (see UCF/USF, a natural rivalry between close schools with programs both on the rise, but he thought the Bulls were above the Knights and didn't renew the series).

 

I can understand the rationale for doing away with Interleague- it deprives a team of an extra series against all of your divisional opponents. However, I think it just makes the series you do have against them more important and it does allow the fans a chance to get to see teams and players they wouldn't get to see otherwise. Perhaps they scale it back to a home and away vs your territorial rival, and then 1 home and 1 away with whatever team(s) work based on where their last played series is. That should free up 1 or 2 extra series.

 

 

It's unfair to try to compare division rivalries with IL rivalries. And the only way this would ever be a rivalry is if we played each other in the WS, and then it would only seem like a rivalry to the team that lost.

 

And I gotta chuckle at the Rays "new fans" remarks.

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It's unfair to try to compare division rivalries with IL rivalries. And the only way this would ever be a rivalry is if we played each other in the WS, and then it would only seem like a rivalry to the team that lost.

 

And I gotta chuckle at the Rays "new fans" remarks.

 

 

I would agree that divisional rivalries are the most intense because of the amount of games played, thus a Marlins/Rays rivalry would never be elevated to that level. However, because generally people follow a particular sports teams due to geographic proximity, there is a natural propensity to dislike another team close to your home team's terrirtory. White Sox/Cubs and Yankees/Mets fans generally loathe eachother and are in seperate leagues. The effect is obviously magnified when both teams are in the same city and lessened the further away they are.

 

The irony of bandwagon fans is not lost on me, Bronco! The point is, I'm not a Rays fan and I've been to more Rays games than many Rays "fans." Since they haven't followed the team from the start and experienced the 10/12 losing seasons and all-time 43.2% winning %, they have no perspective.

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if we cant get a managable bullpen why cant we just go super unorthodox and start the game with our bullpen? Cycle our relievers just like our starting pitchers. Preserve Nunez for the 9th still, and expect the SP's to put up 6 innings? At least that way the pressure is on the starting pitchers and not the relievers... who I trust much more. And, you'll also be able to have 7 innings to come back from whatever damage the RPs put on. And you are guaranteed that the RPs wont get any inherited runners because they can start the game...

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