People in this country don't know how to manage their money. Its sad.

 

A lot of truth in this statement right here. Too many people have the mentality of "I have the money, why not spend it" instead of saving up. If you get money, save half or more of it, at least. [That's how I think people should do it, anyways.]

 

Yeah its real easy to save money when you make minimum wage a week, with nearly 1/3 of that in federal taxes, and paying the outrageously unfair sales taxes - a tax that is unfair to lower wage earners and one of the reasons poor people stay poor.

 

I wish you guys had to live one month working on minimum wage with the poor in a slum apartment in Liberty City. You might change your minds on what its like to be poor in the great ol' US of A.

*sigh*

Should I even bother replying?

 

The reason poor people stay poor is because they don't save smartly. I haven't had a legitimate paying job, ever, in my life, not from lack of effort, but because of either where I lived [too white for Miami, no offense to Hispanics, it's just from what I've seen ...] or because the places I applied weren't hiring, so I haven't had a chance to really "save" anything. I KNOW what it's like to be poor. My family has been poor since 2003. Why, you ask? Because we're in debt - only one person in this family makes money [due to my mother being legally disabled right now from a car accident and my bad luck with jobs thus far], and he almost spends it before he even gets his paycheck. We're barely surviving right now in this house that we have, which is, in comparison, very cheap. We lost our house in Miami because we couldn't pay the mortgage there anymore, and we were lucky we could have this one [inherited from my uncle.] So, I know what it's like to be poor in this country. Give me a break.

People in this country don't know how to manage their money. Its sad.

 

A lot of truth in this statement right here. Too many people have the mentality of "I have the money, why not spend it" instead of saving up. If you get money, save half or more of it, at least. [That's how I think people should do it, anyways.]

 

Yeah its real easy to save money when you make minimum wage a week, with nearly 1/3 of that in federal taxes, and paying the outrageously unfair sales taxes - a tax that is unfair to lower wage earners and one of the reasons poor people stay poor.

 

I wish you guys had to live one month working on minimum wage with the poor in a slum apartment in Liberty City. You might change your minds on what its like to be poor in the great ol' US of A.

 

I survived for over 18 months on less than $300 a week. BTW, I still saved 10% of my money. I did not dine at restaurants, I cut back my cable to the minimum that would get me internet, I do no have a smart phone, I drove sparingly except for job hunting. Funny thing about sales tax - you do not pay it on food.

People in this country don't know how to manage their money. Its sad.

 

A lot of truth in this statement right here. Too many people have the mentality of "I have the money, why not spend it" instead of saving up. If you get money, save half or more of it, at least. [That's how I think people should do it, anyways.]

 

Yeah its real easy to save money when you make minimum wage a week, with nearly 1/3 of that in federal taxes, and paying the outrageously unfair sales taxes - a tax that is unfair to lower wage earners and one of the reasons poor people stay poor.

 

I wish you guys had to live one month working on minimum wage with the poor in a slum apartment in Liberty City. You might change your minds on what its like to be poor in the great ol' US of A.

I'm not saying life isn't difficult or that saving is easy. But minimum wage earners in no way, shape, or form surrender 1/3 of their income in the form of federal income taxes. In fact, the personal exemptions and standard deduction are constructed to, when combined, eliminate virtually the entire Federal Income Tax burden on persons and families at or below the poverty line. They still pay the ~7% (I believe) FICA and Social Security taxes, but, once their refunds come in at least, that's typically all the Federal Income Tax minimum wage earners pay.

 

7.65% composed of 1.45% for HI and 6.2% for SS.

People in this country don't know how to manage their money. Its sad.

 

A lot of truth in this statement right here. Too many people have the mentality of "I have the money, why not spend it" instead of saving up. If you get money, save half or more of it, at least. [That's how I think people should do it, anyways.]

 

Yeah its real easy to save money when you make minimum wage a week, with nearly 1/3 of that in federal taxes, and paying the outrageously unfair sales taxes - a tax that is unfair to lower wage earners and one of the reasons poor people stay poor.

 

I wish you guys had to live one month working on minimum wage with the poor in a slum apartment in Liberty City. You might change your minds on what its like to be poor in the great ol' US of A.

 

I survived for over 18 months on less than $300 a week. BTW, I still saved 10% of my money. I did not dine at restaurants, I cut back my cable to the minimum that would get me internet, I do no have a smart phone, I drove sparingly except for job hunting. Funny thing about sales tax - you do not pay it on food.

 

Did you live in a slum apartment, without any savings at all ? Did you have to feed 3 kids on that salary ? Did you have non-working kitchen appliances that go un-fixed for weeks by a slum lord forcing you to eat out or not eat at all ? (You have to pay taxes on prepared foods at restaurants or from a grocery store).

 

I know of one lady from my church Sondra Johnstone, who when her husband got ill and passed away in 2008, and had 3 kids (4,7 and 11) who was in this situation. She worked at WalMart and had around $ 800 a month after taxes. $ 400 of that went to her Section 8 apartment. Then her kids had to have $ 35 to $ 40 a week for bus fare to get to and from her closest public library so they could have access to a computer to do their after school homework (their school had to terminate the school library internet due to cutbacks from the school taxes - thank you Governor Scott). She had clothe & feed her children as well as pay lights and phone and any entertainment on about $ 200 a month. They had no cable TV and certainly living in an apartment building had no satelite.

 

My wife and I have been assisting Sondra and her children as part of our church witness program for the last 2 years, but what would have happened to Sondra and her children if we had not been there for them ? She is lucky that she does not have a drug problem as well, coming from the environment that she lived in.

 

You guys need to have more sympathy for the working poor in this country. Once again I am dumbfounded by the selfishness and lack of empathy in the younger people in this country. It all stems from the selfish me-ism that pandemic in our society and comes from the Reagan Era "trickle down economics" that has failed in producing a decent standard of living for the "working" poor in the wealthiest country in world.

 

Such a pity. We could be even stronger if we brought them out of poverty. All it would take is emilinating the Bush Tax Cuts.

Once again I am dumbfounded by the selfishness and lack of empathy in the younger people in this country.

 

... that is all.

Forgetting about several of your other ridiculous comments, how dare you put someone else's business out there on the internet like that for the whole world to read?

Forgetting about several of your other ridiculous comments, how dare you put someone else's business out there on the internet like that for the whole world to read?

 

And this. ^^^

All I can do right now is shake my head. I am speechless.

Forgetting about several of your other ridiculous comments, how dare you put someone else's business out there on the internet like that for the whole world to read?

 

 

Seriously! Using her FULL NAME on the Internet in an attempt to pat yourself on the back and take jabs at MB.com members? Shameful behavior.

I have no idea why you would deem it necessary to include someone's full name here.

 

 

 

also Zambrano's Guatemalan child is feeling unloved in this thread.

I have no idea why you would deem it necessary to include someone's full name here.

 

 

 

also Zambrano's Guatemalan child is feeling unloved in this thread.

 

It's interesting that he's adopting a Guatemalan child, as opposed to one from his native country of Venezuela. Pretty cool, IMO.

So are we really outting people's full government names now? Did the woman give her permission to have her name and business put out on the internet?

 

Lord.........

You guys need to have more sympathy for the working poor in this country.

 

 

 

Such a pity. We could be even stronger if we brought them out of poverty. All it would take is emilinating the Bush Tax Cuts.

 

 

We need empathy not sympathy. Empathy is understanding but retaining a clear head. Also, we should not put an actual person into this story by name. A "woman from my church" would suffice. This is the kind of anecdote that distorts the issue and there is no back-story for us to understand.

 

Based upon what you have said, these 2 things should save her $200+ per month:

 

Comcast offers internet for $9.99/month for low income students and a PC for $150. This is roughly equal to 1 month's bus fare to the library and then savings of $110-$150 per month perpetually.

 

Is both her fridge and her stove broken? Because you can feed your family with either one. A single burner portable stove is $15 at her job - I have no idea if there is a Walmart employee discount to lower it, but the savings on a single day's worth of meals for 4 would buy it.

 

Also, what charity assistance does your church offer for its flock?

Things would also be better if people with little education and marketable skills realized that having three children is not a wise idea under a Wal-Mart payscale.

 

This is probably one of the greatest problems that low income individuals face and they have only themselves to blame for it.

Things would also be better if people with little education and marketable skills realized that having three children is not a wise idea under a Wal-Mart payscale.

 

This is probably one of the greatest problems that low income individuals face and they have only themselves to blame for it.

 

 

In fairness, we have no idea of the family's wherewithal when they had the children.

Things would also be better if people with little education and marketable skills realized that having three children is not a wise idea under a Wal-Mart payscale.

 

This is probably one of the greatest problems that low income individuals face and they have only themselves to blame for it.

 

 

In fairness, we have no idea of the family's wherewithal when they had the children.

This is true as well.

 

As our local senior citizen noted, this woman's husband passed away, perhaps he made an OK salary that got them by fairly well with some room for comfort.

According to a special report from the U.S. Census Bureau (...)

 

Yeah its real easy to save money when you make minimum wage a week, with nearly 1/3 of that in federal taxes, and paying the outrageously unfair sales taxes

 

It all stems from the (...) Reagan Era "trickle down economics" that has failed in producing a decent standard of living for the "working" poor in the wealthiest country in world. (...) All it would take is emilinating the Bush Tax Cuts.

 

Clearly, there are a lot of things about poverty, taxation and economics that you think you know that simply aren't true.

 

This is a sports board, so I'll keep this relatively short.

 

1) The Census Bureau (and it wasn't a "special" report, just their annual garbage) has been systematically overestimating poverty for decades. How? They don't count non-cash benefits as income. Medicaid, EITC, food stamps, Section 8 housing, WIC, and dozens of other federal and state programs which, taken together average many, many thousands of dollars of income to the average recipient. After years of complaints, they've finally admitted it and are designing new measures that actually might bear some relationship to reality.

 

Median household income statistics are also skewed for that and other reasons, but that's way beyond a one-sentence explanation.

 

2) The minimum wage in Florida for the last 6 months of last year was 7.31/hour. That's 15,205/year full-time. The standard deduction for '11 is 5,800, the personal exemption is 3,700. Anyone with 3 dependent children pays ZERO federal income tax on any income less than 20,600 (5,800 + (3,700 * 4).)

 

Employee FICA "taxes" for Social Security and Medicare are NOT federal income taxes, they're "insurance premiums" based on income. Never mind that they're both bankrupt in the long-term. The total rate for '11 was temporarily reduced to 5.65% from 7.65%. That's 859 on 15,205. That results in minimum wage net of 1,196/month. If someone only nets 800, 1) other stuff is being deducted, or 2) they aren't working 40 hours/week, or 3) they're lying.

 

Regardless, a head of household with 3 children and 15,205 of income qualifies for the maximum EITC, which is 5,751 for '11. That 5,751 not only covers the 859 of FICA (the credit was originally designed to cover only HALF of FICA, but has since been turned into a welfare program) but, because the credit is refundable will result in a check from the IRS for 4,892.

 

That 4,892 takes the nominal minimum wage income up to 20,097 or 1,675/month. Or, 9.66/hour if you prefer.

 

And, in fact, an employee can set up their withholding so that the net estimated EITC refund due is paid in equal installments in their paychecks over the entire year and they don't have to wait for a refund check the following year.

 

Pretty slick, huh? 20,097 of cash gross income with ZERO income tax and ZERO FICA.

 

15,205 (gross and net) pay from the employer and another 4,892 in EITC (non-taxable) from the IRS via the employer who is merely handing out taxpayer money withheld from other employees (the employer thus makes smaller total deposits of withheld taxes over the course of the year,) all done at the direction of the IRS under current law.

 

To that 20,097 add non-cash benefits from Section 8, say 400/month, food stamps, say 400/month, Medicaid, say 2,400/month (20 billion FL budget / 2.73 million FL recipients / 12 months * 4 family members) and you have total cash plus non-cash income of 58,497/year, completely tax-free except to the minor extent of 7% state sales tax on non-service, non-food purchases. That's 28.12/hour for those keeping score at home.

 

BTW, even though the actual cost to FL of each Medicaid recipient is about 600/month, let's say you consider the VALUE to be only 250/month. In that case, the total income is still 41,697/year. 20.05/hour. That's some minimum wage. All essentially tax-free.

 

So, no a minimum wage worker doesn't pay 1/3rd of income in any kind of tax, and in fact it's rare that any of them pay even a dime to the feds. Or any net dollars to the state, considering that any sales taxes are coming back a hundred to a thousand-fold in the form of Medicaid and other state benefits.

 

3) The series of Reagan tax cuts and reforms were not only responsible for 25 years of growth (which got a lot of people out of poverty,) they were the first effort to get the lowest income earners, those about whom you are so concerned, COMPLETELY OFF the income tax rolls. Reagan increased the standard deduction and personal exemption and indexed them (and all tax brackets) to inflation for the first time, ever.

 

The Bush cuts sliced the lowest bracket rate from 15% to 10%, a 33% cut. They only cut the top bracket from 39.6% to 35%, less than a 12% cut. And, as usual, the top 1% paid more of the income tax tab after the cuts than they did before the cuts. EITC has been constantly expanded since 1975 and now results in almost no FICA "taxes" being paid by low income earners.

 

In fact, every time marginal income tax rates have been cut, the percentage of the total income tax tab that gets paid by the highest earners goes up, not down. It happened in '20s (Coolidge,) the '60s (JFK/LBJ,) the '80s (Reagan) and in 2003 (Bush.)

 

The top 1% now pay about 40% of all income taxes. The bottom 40% get a NET REFUND. The bottom 40% don't pay squat, but they sure get a lot of benefits, enough to take many of them up towards the US median income if it was all actually accounted for.

 

Those are just some basic facts. Your efforts to help someone are commendable, but it would appear that you don't know the whole story, whether about poverty, taxation or economics, or about what's really available to the so-called "poor" you are trying to help.

Clearly, there are a lot of things about poverty, taxation and economics that you think you know that simply aren't true.

 

Sure hate to see you go into a long explanation.

Clearly, there are a lot of things about poverty, taxation and economics that you think you know that simply aren't true.

Sure hate to see you go into a long explanation.

ERROR!! Don't know how I managed to do that. Meant to quote, "This is a sports board so I'll keep it short."

Clearly, there are a lot of things about poverty, taxation and economics that you think you know that simply aren't true.

Sure hate to see you go into a long explanation.

ERROR!! Don't know how I managed to do that. Meant to quote, "This is a sports board so I'll keep it short."

 

:lol

 

I said relatively short.

 

And it was, I could have gone on for pages with hundreds of citations. Some canards can't be taken apart in just 3 sentences. And some stuff just can't be allowed to pass without comment.

Damn, this went way off topic fast.

Hey asshole, stop adopting kids and focus on what really matters- getting ready for this season.

To that 20,097 add non-cash benefits from Section 8, say 400/month, food stamps, say 400/month, Medicaid, say 2,400/month (20 billion FL budget / 2.73 million FL recipients / 12 months * 4 family members) and you have total cash plus non-cash income of 58,497/year, completely tax-free except to the minor extent of 7% state sales tax on non-service, non-food purchases. That's 28.12/hour for those keeping score at home.

 

 

I am going to have to look into that math, because a family of 5 making $90,000/year after taxes and counting things like 401K matching funds and benefits will get approximately $60,000/year. If it holds up then the welfare and tax system is even more f***ed up than I thought it was - and I already think it is f***ed all to hell.

 

EDIT NOTES:

 

OK - quick and dirty math:

 

Family of 5 (Mom, Dad, 3 Kids) - both earn minimum wage: $55,450 (approx) after taxes including benefits

 

Same Family of 5 - tripling their income to $90,000: $57,400 (approx) after taxes including benefits

 

 

Odd are, the apartment for the higher income family is nicer and the health insurance is better. But that does not really expand the gap by that much.

That would make a brilliant blog post. (not joking)

That would make a brilliant blog post. (not joking)

 

You seeing this, Admin?

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