December 8, 201213 yr Trading away Johnson, Ramirez, and Sanchez was the right move. But trading away Buehrle and Reyes bothers me. They could have kept them and built from there. They didn't have to literally blow it up and stay pat in FA. What Erick said and also, the FA class this year isn't that great. Blowing up the team was the right way to go and it would've been the wrong move to sign FA just to sign them. Now, let's play 2013 out and see what we need and then add to it next off-season to finish out the roster via free agency or trades. I truly believe that's the plan and I like it. I have no confidence that they will spend $$$ next offseason. Why would they? They've clearly committed both in their actions and words that they are going to return to the old ways of spending like $20-50 mil on payroll and dump players as soon as their salaries get too high. You know it's not a good sign when David Samson is saying publicly that they are looking to take on the 'Oakland model'. Most importantly, they will make a higher profit if they spend less, especially now that every MLB team is going to get around $20-25 million a year thanks to the new national TV deal the league signed. With this payroll they are going to be able to turn a huge profit when you factor in all of the revenue sharing.
December 8, 201213 yr I never said they would spend a lot of money aka top tier free agents. I doubt they do. However, I think improving areas for mid range players is possible next offseason.
December 8, 201213 yr What's their incentive though? Nobody expects this team to do anything now. They can just pocket that sweet sweet revenue sharing/TV money and call it a day. Now, if MLB revoked most of their revenue sharing dollars, then that might get their attention. We know for a fact Loria and Co were pocketing money based on their financial statements, which showed even back during the bad Dolphins Stadium days that they were turning high profits at the same time they publicly cried poverty. I don't trust anyone working for this team as far as I can throw them. I've been extremely patient with them, but this past season was the final straw.
December 9, 201213 yr Disagree, Admin. Respectfully. The prime imperative for Loria and Samson is to make $$$$. Winning a title is clearly secondary.
December 9, 201213 yr Yeah Admin, this is pretty clear; why do you think he spent all that money last offseason? Because he clearly doesn't care, that's why.
December 9, 201213 yr I never said they would spend a lot of money aka top tier free agents. I doubt they do. However, I think improving areas for mid range players is possible next offseason. I see it a little differently. I doubt they will be able to spend any $$$ for top tier FAs. They have far too much to overcome to talk any into coming here. The FO has even said so. According to quotes from some players' agents, and from the lack of signing anybody of any skill level so far (with the exception of JP), it's too tough of a sale. Any "named" player is going to have come through trades. And I just don't think aquiring guys that really don't want to be here is the right way to build a contender. This last fire sale has far reaching complications that some just refuse to believe.
December 10, 201213 yr Yeah Admin, this is pretty clear; why do you think he spent all that money last offseason? Because he clearly doesn't care, that's why. He had to spend the money to try to convince new suckers, i mean new fans, to come visit his shiny new publicly-funded ballpark. The fact that he heavily-backloaded all the deals should've caused us all to figure out that he never intended for Buehrle or Reyes to finish the contracts as Marlins.
December 10, 201213 yr Yeah Admin, this is pretty clear; why do you think he spent all that money last offseason? Because he clearly doesn't care, that's why. He had to spend the money to try to convince new suckers, i mean new fans, to come visit his shiny new publicly-funded ballpark. The fact that he heavily-backloaded all the deals should've caused us all to figure out that he never intended for Buehrle or Reyes to finish the contracts as Marlins. New ballpark would've brought in a similar amount of fans on it's own IMO. Backloading contracts is common in MLB.
December 10, 201213 yr Yeah Admin, this is pretty clear; why do you think he spent all that money last offseason? Because he clearly doesn't care, that's why. He had to spend the money to try to convince new suckers, i mean new fans, to come visit his shiny new publicly-funded ballpark. The fact that he heavily-backloaded all the deals should've caused us all to figure out that he never intended for Buehrle or Reyes to finish the contracts as Marlins. New ballpark would've brought in a similar amount of fans on it's own IMO. Backloading contracts is common in MLB. Precisely. Backloading is done by a lot of teams that are basically hedging their bets. If the guy pans out, then the team doesn't mind paying the money down the road. If he doesn't, or if the team falls flat, they have time to move him before the big bucks kick in. The player takes the deal anyway because he gets paid that money eventually, no matter who he's playing for.
December 10, 201213 yr Yeah Admin, this is pretty clear; why do you think he spent all that money last offseason? Because he clearly doesn't care, that's why. He had to spend the money to try to convince new suckers, i mean new fans, to come visit his shiny new publicly-funded ballpark.The fact that he heavily-backloaded all the deals should've caused us all to figure out that he never intended for Buehrle or Reyes to finish the contracts as Marlins. New ballpark would've brought in a similar amount of fans on it's own IMO. Backloading contracts is common in MLB. The new ball park did, starting in 2010 with the previous season ticket holders buying up "choice seats" and then opening up season ticket sales to the rest of the communities. South Florida's "place to be seen" mentality assured them of a large season ticket base for the first season, which meant more $$$ for them to spend. But once that new ball park smell wore off it was predictable the average attendance was going to drop in the following years. The fire sale only escalated how big a drop it would be, but there are numerous other reasons why it was going down big time. As things stand right now, I would be surprised if it even equals what it was at Joe Robbie.
December 10, 201213 yr They tried to build a winner, and failed. They dumped a pile of bad contracts, and had to pay for it with Reyes. The big issue is the class of offensive prospects this time around it crap by comparison, Hermida, Jacobs, Ramirez, Willingham, Uggla is not something we are likely to match this year.
December 10, 201213 yr I don't think they went about fixing the failure in the right way... We have Anderson Perez and Adeiny Hechavarria. One is known by baseball people and the other is a perennial all-star caliber player.
December 11, 201213 yr I don't think they went about fixing the failure in the right way... As a fan, I would agree with you. BUT When they went on that spending spree I said that it was a make it or break it move. Make it deep into the play offs would help with attendance in 2013. Don't do that and there would be trouble brewing. We saw the results. Now we will have to suffer the consequences.
December 11, 201213 yr And BTW.....I keep hearing people say that they lost something like $40 mil in 2012, but I've never read anything from the FO on that. Could be I missed it. And if they did actually say that then I would have to wonder if this would be just another of the "half truths" we are constantly fed. As in....Attendance average was well below their predictions for the first year. Are they thinking that $$$ not made because of that is $$$ lost?
December 11, 201213 yr Yea the marlins did not lose 40 million. There is no way. With all the revenue sharing, merchandise sales, season tickets, very respectable attendance, parking, concessions. Not a chance unless Loria bought a ton of hookers.
December 12, 201213 yr Something positive... Well since expenditures are bound to be very low, we can assume that net income will be positive about 2013 right?
December 12, 201213 yr Yea the marlins did not lose 40 million. There is no way.With all the revenue sharing, merchandise sales, season tickets, very respectable attendance, parking, concessions. Not a chance unless Loria bought a ton of hookers. I don't find the attendance to have been respectable. The worst for a new ball park in 30 years? But I'll give that one to ya just for arguments sake.If someone has a quote from the FO saying they actually did lose $40 mil, or whatever, then I think most here like to see it. And if they did say it without an explanation of how they came to that number, then I'm sticking with my theory of their reasoning.
December 12, 201213 yr The attendance definitely was respectable. At least "paid attendance." We have the least amount of seats of any ballpark, so even had we sold out every game, I think it still would have been at least in the top 5 lowest in the last 30 years.
December 12, 201213 yr The attendance definitely was respectable. At least "paid attendance." We have the least amount of seats of any ballpark, so even had we sold out every game, I think it still would have been at least in the top 5 lowest in the last 30 years. Rank with respect to other teams isn't solely what makes attendance disappointing. Paid attendance was significantly below the Marlins' projections.
December 12, 201213 yr The attendance definitely was respectable. At least "paid attendance." We have the least amount of seats of any ballpark, so even had we sold out every game, I think it still would have been at least in the top 5 lowest in the last 30 years. Rank with respect to other teams isn't solely what makes attendance disappointing. Paid attendance was significantly below the Marlins' projections. Well, that kind of thing happens with a crappy team. It was still a significant jump from 2011.
December 12, 201213 yr Fans usually don't stop going in the first year of a new stadium regardless of how crappy the team is, to be fair. The only thing worse than the attendance was the team. The attendance was pretty bad though.
December 12, 201213 yr The attendance definitely was respectable. At least "paid attendance." We have the least amount of seats of any ballpark, so even had we sold out every game, I think it still would have been at least in the top 5 lowest in the last 30 years. Rank with respect to other teams isn't solely what makes attendance disappointing. Paid attendance was significantly below the Marlins' projections. Well, that kind of thing happens with a crappy team. It was still a significant jump from 2011. Yes, but arguably the numbers were still below projections in the early part of the season when the team was intact and not entirely sucking yet.
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