Wild Card Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 I hate Dietrich as a 3rd baseman. It's in the same vein of the talk of putting Coghlan at 3B not too long ago. Put players where they are likely to thrive. Dietrich doesn't belong at 3rd base. It's stupid that Diietrich can't mature at his natural position because we have to give playing time to a 36 year old has been (sorry Furcal, but that's what you are). It may just be the lesser of two evils. The market for third basemen seems to be weaker than second. It may just have been a better fit, just not ideal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 A Chavez/Lucas platoon at 3rd base would have been better than Furcal at 2nd and Dietrich at 3rd. Or trading for Middlebrooks. Or Uribe, even as a last resort on a 2 year deal. Maybe Chavez doesn't want to sign here? We've probably tried like 4 times over the last 5 years. Maybe the asking price for Middlebrooks is too high? A 2 year deal for Uribe is even worse with Moran coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Michael Young > Juan Uribe. Well, maybe not, but I'd rather sign Young. More consistent and he'd be cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymous Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 A Chavez/Lucas platoon at 3rd base would have been better than Furcal at 2nd and Dietrich at 3rd. Or trading for Middlebrooks. Or Uribe, even as a last resort on a 2 year deal. Maybe Chavez doesn't want to sign here? We've probably tried like 4 times over the last 5 years. Maybe the asking price for Middlebrooks is too high? A 2 year deal for Uribe is even worse with Moran coming. I don't know the answers to those questions, but they are better options. Uribe can always shift when/if Moran is ready. There is also Infante, who would have been perfect here as a SS/3B. Seemed realistic after the Saltalamacchia signing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymous Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Michael Young > Juan Uribe. Well, maybe not, but I'd rather sign Young. More consistent and he'd be cheaper. Depends on Uribe's bat. He's a damn good defender but can't really hit. He had a good year last season but on a contract year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Michael Young > Juan Uribe. Well, maybe not, but I'd rather sign Young. More consistent and he'd be cheaper. He had a -1.3 WAR last year and -2.4 in 2012. WHY!?!?!?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dim Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 If I gave you a starting infield of... 1B: Morrison 2B: Furcal/Solano SS: Hechavarria 3B: Dietrich Would you initially guess that this is a starting infield for the Miami Marlins on opening day 2014, or the starting infield of the New Orleans Zephyrs on opening day 2014? I would say it should be the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dim Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 A Chavez/Lucas platoon at 3rd base would have been better than Furcal at 2nd and Dietrich at 3rd. Or trading for Middlebrooks. Or Uribe, even as a last resort on a 2 year deal. Maybe Chavez doesn't want to sign here? We've probably tried like 4 times over the last 5 years. Maybe the asking price for Middlebrooks is too high? A 2 year deal for Uribe is even worse with Moran coming. Or the Marlins have been too stupid to sign him. He's literally signed for minor league deals and incentive laden deals over the last three or so years. A guy in Chavez's situation the last few years doesn't get to be choosy about what team he signs with. He goes wherever the best offer is at, and I'm pretty sure that the Marlins never gave him a real offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SixYearItch Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Dietrich is a power hitting 2nd baseman. At third base he's got average to below average power. Furcal at 2B and Dietrich at 3B doesn't make this team better. With this current lineup we'd likely still be far below average offensively and may not be able to hit 100 home runs AGAIN. I understood a stopgap at 3B. Somebody like Eric Chavez or even a Brandon Inge might've been fine. Furcal is just Juan Pierre at 2nd base. I doubt Furcal makes it to August as an everyday starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 I don't think this signing improves the team one bit. Furcal is 36 and he sucks now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Reading through this thread, I'm really surprised at the overwhelmingly positive reactions here. Furcal isn't very good, people. This signing is nothing to be excited about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canada-marlin24 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Plenty of guys do not have trouble being productive at 36. One thing Furcal has always been is in great shape. I see no reason why he cant hit .275 + with solid defense and some stolen bases. Dont forget in 2012 he was the starting shortstop on a very good Cardinals team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotcorner Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 it's just sort of an "eh" move. Glad it's just a year, so okay I guess. I don't know if it makes them much better, mostly just buys them another year of looking for a long-term infielder. I'd feel better if he were healthier. Dunno. I sort of hope 3b might work out for Dietrich better if his range is as much of an issue as some are saying at 2b. But then he wouldn't last there anyway with Moran coming up. I don't think the DBacks are going to let Chavez get away, Reynolds went to the Yanks, and they probably don't want to commit a long deal with Uribe, so maybe they just gave up finding a 3b. Ideally Furcal holds it together for a year and is a little better than what Solano gives you at 2b. Meanwhile Dietrich plays an average 3b, hits enough to stick around. Then they shift him to 2b and take whatever defense he can manage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Plenty of guys do not have trouble being productive at 36. One thing Furcal has always been is in great shape. I see no reason why he cant hit .275 + with solid defense and some stolen bases. Dont forget in 2012 he was the starting shortstop on a very good Cardinals team. None of that makes logical sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canada-marlin24 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Plenty of guys do not have trouble being productive at 36. One thing Furcal has always been is in great shape. I see no reason why he cant hit .275 + with solid defense and some stolen bases. Dont forget in 2012 he was the starting shortstop on a very good Cardinals team. None of that makes logical sense.Why doesn't that make logical sense? He is not that old and plenty of guys are productive at his age. He is always in good shape which is an advantage and hence I see no reason why he cannot hit .275 + with solid defense and some stolen bases. Logical? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 It's illogical to expect him to be productive at 36 just because some other players have been productive at that point. Generally speaking, the majority of players are shadows of themselves by that age. He was already declining in his most recent two years of play. I don't know what "always in good shape" means. He didn't even play last season so the Marlins have no idea what to expect from him. His performance in the couple of seasons before the injury was pretty lousy, so you'll have to define "good shape." You also aren't explaining where the .275 average comes from (as if batting average even means much anyway). He was putting up a .251/.314/.347/.661 line in 2011-2012. He's two years older now. I'm sure that his defense will be acceptable (probably not much better than what Solano can do) but that's about all we can look forward to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Basically Furcal's most recent 900 PAs are only a hair better than what Solano did last season. Furcal is now 2-3 years older, which places him in the retirement age. This is the type of signing that perennial bad teams make. There's not much risk here, of course, but don't expect this to really improve the team much at all. It's kind of a pointless move just like signing Polanco was last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltimaKilo Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 The only way I don't like the move is if the Marlins declare him the starter before spring. I think Cogs should be brought back to compete for both 2B and 3B. Furcal hasn't played in a couple of years, and he's always been average, at best. While you may think average would be an upgrade, it's gonna be difficult for a 36 year old to come back and produce after a major injury. If he comes back and shows he still has that golden glove and can bat .255, I'm sure the Marlins will get some extra wins. Nonetheless, I agree that I'm really pleased the Marlins are holding onto the pitching talent they have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 He's not going to have "golden glove" defense. His range noticeably tailed off in recent years. I see him as a zero WAR player, give or take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 it's just sort of an "eh" move. Glad it's just a year, so okay I guess. I don't know if it makes them much better, mostly just buys them another year of looking for a long-term infielder. I'd feel better if he were healthier. Dunno. I sort of hope 3b might work out for Dietrich better if his range is as much of an issue as some are saying at 2b. But then he wouldn't last there anyway with Moran coming up. I don't think the DBacks are going to let Chavez get away, Reynolds went to the Yanks, and they probably don't want to commit a long deal with Uribe, so maybe they just gave up finding a 3b. Ideally Furcal holds it together for a year and is a little better than what Solano gives you at 2b. Meanwhile Dietrich plays an average 3b, hits enough to stick around. Then they shift him to 2b and take whatever defense he can manage. I have low opinions of Dietrich and Solano, but I'd rather see one of them start next season, especially since the Marlins are spending $3 million on Furcal. I felt the same way about Polanco last season. The signing had little point and he was reaching the retirement home, so it was basically a waste of playing time and at bats. Furcal has the potential to be better than those two, but it's far from certain. I don't think that's enough to spend $2.5 million (beyond the major league minimum) on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 It's illogical to expect him to be productive at 36 just because some other players have been productive at that point. Generally speaking, the majority of players are shadows of themselves by that age. He was already declining in his most recent two years of play. I don't know what "always in good shape" means. He didn't even play last season so the Marlins have no idea what to expect from him. His performance in the couple of seasons before the injury was pretty lousy, so you'll have to define "good shape." You also aren't explaining where the .275 average comes from (as if batting average even means much anyway). He was putting up a .251/.314/.347/.661 line in 2011-2012. He's two years older now. I'm sure that his defense will be acceptable (probably not much better than what Solano can do) but that's about all we can look forward to. Everything Canada said makes perfect sense. All of his thoughts on the subject are logical. Furcal CAN BE a shadow of himself AND STILL be productive. I don't know what retard said Furcal has always been "just an average player", he was one of the best SS in the game for quite a while. In his prime he was a 6+ WAR player, nobody is expecting to come in here and do that. But I agree with everything he said, Furcal played pretty decent for the Cards in 2012 and his range/arm should be less of an issue at second base. If he can come in and post an OPS around .700 and play above average defense and be a 1 WAR player he was absolutely worth it. If he can't, I can all but guarantee you the team will make an improvement during the year to remedy the situation. I do agree he is far from a guarantee, but again, Canada's assumptions are spot on IMO. I do hope they make him compete for the job, though, and they don't just hand it to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollythewog Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 i like this signing. Wild Card: Looks like no one is going to win our bet we made as to whether it's deitrich or solano starting 2b... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerhead Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Lets us focus on primarily getting a 3B at the meetings. Great signing especially if he can fully return to form. I'd be pretty happy with a low .700 OPS. I'm liking this offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Fun off-season thus far, agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollythewog Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Fun off-season thus far, agreed. More interesting than I expected Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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