Haren's Future Still Unsure, Holy Crap Please Sign James Shields.

[MarlinsLou]

Rienzo has an option, he is going to AAA. It's why they did that trade.

 

Alvarez, Latos, Haren, Cosart, Koehler

 

Cishek, Dunn, Morris, Ramos, Crow, Phelps, Hand

 

The staff is locked, unless there is an injury or they ditch Hand and go with Dyson/Capps/McKirahan/"Loogy"

 

 

[SongInTheAir]

Rienzo has an option, he is going to AAA. It's why they did that trade.

 

Alvarez, Latos, Haren, Cosart, Koehler

 

Cishek, Dunn, Morris, Ramos, Crow, Phelps, Hand

 

The staff is locked, unless there is an injury or they ditch Hand and go with Dyson/Capps/McKirahan/"Loogy"

 

​I think McKirahan makes the team unless he completely shits the bed in Spring Training. Not that Mike Redmond would know how to use a LOOGY, but it would be nice to have a guy like that in the pen. Rumors are swirling about "baseball people" really liking Nick Masset, but I don't see where he would fit on the team.

 

 

[MarlinsLou]

Rienzo has an option, he is going to AAA. It's why they did that trade.

 

Alvarez, Latos, Haren, Cosart, Koehler

 

Cishek, Dunn, Morris, Ramos, Crow, Phelps, Hand

 

The staff is locked, unless there is an injury or they ditch Hand and go with Dyson/Capps/McKirahan/"Loogy"

 

​I think McKirahan makes the team unless he completely shits the bed in Spring Training. Not that Mike Redmond would know how to use a LOOGY, but it would be nice to have a guy like that in the pen. Rumors are swirling about "baseball people" really liking Nick Masset, but I don't see where he would fit on the team.

 

​He's likely the second lefty if they trade Hand for a team looking for a lefty 6th SP/swingman. Which wouldn't be shocking.

 

I mean, the B bullpen is Capps, Dyson, Claiborne, Rienzo, Masset, Mazzaro, etc. They really could put all of them as 5-6-7 relievers in the pen. Absolutely loaded with arms.

 

 

[SongInTheAir]

Rienzo has an option, he is going to AAA. It's why they did that trade.

 

Alvarez, Latos, Haren, Cosart, Koehler

 

Cishek, Dunn, Morris, Ramos, Crow, Phelps, Hand

 

The staff is locked, unless there is an injury or they ditch Hand and go with Dyson/Capps/McKirahan/"Loogy"

 

​I think McKirahan makes the team unless he completely shits the bed in Spring Training. Not that Mike Redmond would know how to use a LOOGY, but it would be nice to have a guy like that in the pen. Rumors are swirling about "baseball people" really liking Nick Masset, but I don't see where he would fit on the team.

 

​He's likely the second lefty if they trade Hand for a team looking for a lefty 6th SP/swingman. Which wouldn't be shocking.

 

I mean, the B bullpen is Capps, Dyson, Claiborne, Rienzo, Masset, Mazzaro, etc. They really could put all of them as 5-6-7 relievers in the pen. Absolutely loaded with arms.

 

​Yeah, definitely a nice problem to have. I like Capps a lot and think he breaks camp with the team unless Phelps is needed in a starting role. I can't see the team carrying three long reliever/mop up guys like Crow, Phelps, and Hand. This might finally be the year that Brad Hand gets DFAd, despite the fact that he doesn't particularly deserve it.

 

 

[MarlinsLou]

Rienzo has an option, he is going to AAA. It's why they did that trade.

 

Alvarez, Latos, Haren, Cosart, Koehler

 

Cishek, Dunn, Morris, Ramos, Crow, Phelps, Hand

 

The staff is locked, unless there is an injury or they ditch Hand and go with Dyson/Capps/McKirahan/"Loogy"

 

​I think McKirahan makes the team unless he completely shits the bed in Spring Training. Not that Mike Redmond would know how to use a LOOGY, but it would be nice to have a guy like that in the pen. Rumors are swirling about "baseball people" really liking Nick Masset, but I don't see where he would fit on the team.

 

​He's likely the second lefty if they trade Hand for a team looking for a lefty 6th SP/swingman. Which wouldn't be shocking.

 

I mean, the B bullpen is Capps, Dyson, Claiborne, Rienzo, Masset, Mazzaro, etc. They really could put all of them as 5-6-7 relievers in the pen. Absolutely loaded with arms.

 

​Yeah, definitely a nice problem to have. I like Capps a lot and think he breaks camp with the team unless Phelps is needed in a starting role. I can't see the team carrying three long reliever/mop up guys like Crow, Phelps, and Hand. This might finally be the year that Brad Hand gets DFAd, despite the fact that he doesn't particularly deserve it.

 

​Phelps is guaranteed a bullpen spot with the rotation and his salary. He is more than a mop up guy too. He throws gas and has an 8 K/9 in 300 MLB innings. It's even better as a reliever - 79.2 IP, 3.84 era, 9.9 K/9, 1.31 whip, .217 AVG. Couple of less walks and less HR in a pitcher's park, he's looking really nice out of the pen. In fact, if they deal Cishek I can see him becoming the most obvious guy in the pen to become closer (Capps would be the other one, but he'll be in AAA and maybe not the best to insert top of the food chain right away). Phelps is a good arm. That trade wasn't all about Prado.

 

Crow and Hand are the longmen/mop up guys right now how I see it. I doubt either get DFA'd because that's eating $2 million with Crow, and Hand can easily be traded for single A arms to someone looking for a 6th SP/2nd Lefty guy. Especially a non-contender who can give him innings and see if they get lucky. Then it's just a question if they go with a 6th RHP (Capps/Dyson) or second lefty (McKirahan/Conley/Dayton). If they trade Hand soon, I can see Phil Coke signing here fast and the arm to beat for the other lefty spot.

 

 

[EricOwens!]

I really liked dyson last year. Would be pretty sad to see him not make the club after last year but I'd understand if he didn't. 

 

 

[SongInTheAir]

I really liked dyson last year. Would be pretty sad to see him not make the club after last year but I'd understand if he didn't. 

 

​LOL DYSON SUCKS.

 

GET IT GUYS?

 

No, but really...Dyson was good and he'll definitely log some innings for the Fish this season, he just probably won't break camp with the team (assuming he has options left, which I think he should have one.)

 

 

[Schnellders]

Now that Haren has committed, what can we expect from him at this stage? 12 wins and a 4.20 ERA?

 

 

[SongInTheAir]

Now that Haren has committed, what can we expect from him at this stage? 12 wins and a 4.20 ERA?

 

That would be a pleasant surprise. Regardless of what he says publicly, he clearly would rather be somewhere else. That, combined with rapidly declining talent, means we're looking at an ERA closer to 5. He'll be the guy that comes out of the rotation when Jose comes back, if Phelps or Hand haven't already taken his spot sooner. 

 

 

[Wild Card]

Now that Haren has committed, what can we expect from him at this stage? 12 wins and a 4.20 ERA?

 

That would be a pleasant surprise. Regardless of what he says publicly, he clearly would rather be somewhere else. That, combined with rapidly declining talent, means we're looking at an ERA closer to 5. He'll be the guy that comes out of the rotation when Jose comes back, if Phelps or Hand haven't already taken his spot sooner. 

 

I'd be surprised if Haren is that bad.

 

I'd also be extremely surprised, shocked really, if Capps AND Dyson are both left off the 25 man roster.

 

 

[poptart]

take away his two awful games at Coors last year and he had a 3.79 ERA in the NL last year. that ain't bad at all.

 

12-13 wins from the #4 starter sounds great. if he pitches like he did last year he'll be a huge asset 

 

 

[Entendu]

I expect Haren to post around a 3.75 next year

 

 

[Admin]

I expect Haren to post around a 3.75 next year

 

​WHIP?

 

 

[Iowa]

I think people are selling Haren short and believe he will be a valuable piece to the rotation this year. 

 

 

[MarlinsLou]

take away his two awful games at Coors last year and he had a 3.79 ERA in the NL last year. that ain't bad at all.

 

12-13 wins from the #4 starter sounds great. if he pitches like he did last year he'll be a huge asset 

 

​I used to do this with Nolasco every year. Take out the 3 drillings, and he's actually good the other 28 starts a year. Then you accept you can't cherrypick, and realize maybe he isn't so great.

 

I don't think Haren is going to be awful, I would rather have him than Koehler/Phelps/Hand in the rotation, but his K's were down, BB's (slightly) up, and a very low unsustainable BABIP. Regression is coming from last year. I'm looking for 2-3 good months to start the year, and a sell high or replace from within when the drillings come.

 

 

[MarlinsLou]

Now that Haren has committed, what can we expect from him at this stage? 12 wins and a 4.20 ERA?

 

That would be a pleasant surprise. Regardless of what he says publicly, he clearly would rather be somewhere else. That, combined with rapidly declining talent, means we're looking at an ERA closer to 5. He'll be the guy that comes out of the rotation when Jose comes back, if Phelps or Hand haven't already taken his spot sooner. 

 

I'd be surprised if Haren is that bad.

 

I'd also be extremely surprised, shocked really, if Capps AND Dyson are both left off the 25 man roster.

 

​Why are you going to be shocked if Capps AND Dyson are off the 25 man. It's a numbers game. It's easy

 

Alvarez, Latos, Haren, Cosart, Koehler < - Locked. No chance one of them isn't in rotation and bumped to bullpen, but for injury or an 11th hour Haren trade/retirement. Note, this is pushing Koehler to pen or Haren out of town come Fernandez in July, so isn't going to make it easier for those guys to get on the 25 man in the summer either.

 

Cishek, Dunn, Phelps, Crow < - Locked, all make real money, but for injury or 11th hour trade. I bet they regret the Crow trade at this point, but can't see them DFA'ing him when he is likely a good longman and veteran presence. Not in April or May anyways.

 

Ramos, Morris < - Locked, because they are good, earned it last year, and they aren't being jumped by Dyson or Capps for rather obvious reasons

 

Which leaves the last bullpen spot

 

Hand < - Out of options, and a lefty. They need a second lefty

 

Dyson, Capps < - Not out of options, and righties. McKirahan (RuleV), Naverson, Conley, and Dayton probably have a better shot here just from throwing from left side if Hand is dealt. But I guess they could go 6 righties and take one of them?

 

Pure numbers game.

 

It's going to take an injury, trade, or surprise DFA for either of them to make the team. Also, note that they are trying to sign K-Rod for some unknown reason. That doesn't make this any easier for Capps/Dyson. And really, I don't understand that unless they have a Cishek trade lined up already and it's a cost savings move to get another piece for the infield.

 

 

[Wild Card]

I understand they have options, but you can only play the roster game for so long when you're trying to make the playoffs and become a different type of franchise. You should carry the best possible arms out of spring, and clearly at least one of Capps and Dyson (Capps) should make this team unquestionably. 

 

 

[MarlinsLou]

I understand they have options, but you can only play the roster game for so long when you're trying to make the playoffs and become a different type of franchise. You should carry the best possible arms out of spring, and clearly at least one of Capps and Dyson (Capps) should make this team unquestionably. 

 

It's not unquestionably, and I'm not sure this applies to the 5th RHP out of the pen throwing mop up innings. I would put Cishek, Morris, Ramos, and Phelps clearly ahead of them. Crow is the only one you can argue here, and I'd only argue Capps, not Dyson.

 

Keep them, and Dietrich, and Bour, in AAA. Let them play meaningful innings.

 

 

[enterthemadness]

What is Javier Vazquez doing? Mr. 2,500 K club.

 

 

[Wild Card]

I understand they have options, but you can only play the roster game for so long when you're trying to make the playoffs and become a different type of franchise. You should carry the best possible arms out of spring, and clearly at least one of Capps and Dyson (Capps) should make this team unquestionably. 

 

It's not unquestionably, and I'm not sure this applies to the 5th RHP out of the pen throwing mop up innings. I would put Cishek, Morris, Ramos, and Phelps clearly ahead of them. Crow is the only one you can argue here, and I'd only argue Capps, not Dyson.

 

Keep them, and Dietrich, and Bour, in AAA. Let them play meaningful innings.

 

Capps 100% should be in the major leagues and I'd be very surprised if they didn't find a way to keep him on barring a terrible spring. The great thing is this is a very good problem to be discussing, but if they carry Crow over Capps simply because of money and options and not due to performance and ability we should all be pissed.

 

 

[MarlinsLou]

I understand they have options, but you can only play the roster game for so long when you're trying to make the playoffs and become a different type of franchise. You should carry the best possible arms out of spring, and clearly at least one of Capps and Dyson (Capps) should make this team unquestionably. 

 

It's not unquestionably, and I'm not sure this applies to the 5th RHP out of the pen throwing mop up innings. I would put Cishek, Morris, Ramos, and Phelps clearly ahead of them. Crow is the only one you can argue here, and I'd only argue Capps, not Dyson.

 

Keep them, and Dietrich, and Bour, in AAA. Let them play meaningful innings.

 

Capps 100% should be in the major leagues and I'd be very surprised if they didn't find a way to keep him on barring a terrible spring. The great thing is this is a very good problem to be discussing, but if they carry Crow over Capps simply because of money and options and not due to performance and ability we should all be pissed.

 

It's really hard to get pissed about 5th RHP out of the bullpen. There is probably very little variance to the teams performance with who gets to throw more mop up innings. Also, ditching Crow for Capps hurts this depth you speak of. The team would probably still be fine eating that $2 mil because at least 3-4 other relievers capable of being on the MLB team would be in AAA, but it's not really something they need to do.

 

Also, the Marlins 8+ relievers the last three years have thrown, roughly, 135, 95, and 83 innings. That's over a 100 average for the non-top 7. At a minimum, it's realistic the 8th and 9th relievers for the team (e.g., Capps, Dyson) will probably be up with the team for half the year each and throw 30+ innings. It's not like they won't be around. 

 

 

[SilverBullet]

Capps and Dyson will both contribute this season, that's almost a guarantee. You could make a strong case for Preston Claiborne and Andre Rienzo too. If the question is who makes the Opening Day Roster, Capps and Dyson have a bunch of obstacles in their path. 

 

 

[SilverBullet]

Capps and Dyson will both contribute this season, that's almost a guarantee. You could make a strong case for Preston Claiborne and Andre Rienzo too. If the question is who makes the Opening Day Roster, Capps and Dyson have a bunch of obstacles in their path. 

 

 

[MarlinsLou]

Capps and Dyson will both contribute this season, that's almost a guarantee. You could make a strong case for Preston Claiborne and Andre Rienzo too. If the question is who makes the Opening Day Roster, Capps and Dyson have a bunch of obstacles in their path. 

 

​Yep. Those 4 will likely throw over 100 innings combined for the team. Which is an absolutely awesome scenario for pitchers 14-17 on the team (Fernandez is 13).