I wouldn't mind seeing pitcher 8, Ichiro 9

 

 

I think the main argument is why take them all out at one time and doing it on a day you give morse the start. Why not do it over the 3 Phillies game? You are also completely rearranging the order for the majority of those guys and hitting them where they haven't been. My hope is it didn't throw off Hech any when he returns to the bottom of the lineup. I'm just not a fan of completely rearranging stuff when it's starting to work. Just like you don't change line pairings in hockey if it's working. 

 

your right that you have to look long term but I think this wasn't the best decision.

 

 

My problem was not with the top of the lineup, rather with the bottom. Morse, Brignac, Solano, Solano, pitcher is five straight batters who get on base less than a quarter of the time at the plate. So if that top of the lineup doesn't produce, the rest of the lineup is almost automatically out until the top comes back again. Also, while our everyday lineup may not have scored 7 runs to win the game, they wouldn't have needed to because Realmuto doesn't allow that "wild pitch" and Dee doesn't make two errors on routine plays. Regardless, losing one game is not a big deal in a 162-game season, but resting a lot of your key players the same day is silly. I get it, the Phillies are really bad, but MOST of their players are still big leaguers who can hit and throw and field a little bit, and you can never chalk a game up as a win regardless of the opposition. Baseball is all about timing and momentum, let's hope that a day off in the middle of a scalding hot streak didn't mess up the timing or momentum for Dee and Prado. Realmuto needed the day off, since it was a day game after a night game. I have no problem with that. Dee and Prado? Their days off should have been staggered and hopefully will be the next time Red decides guys need days off.

 

 

​Firstly, Morse needed the game to try to work out his slump, and he had gotten multiple days off on the homestand.  Secondly, what was working isn't going to work when the whole lineup is worn down in a week due to an 11-day road trip across the United States.

 

First, ​Morse can work out of his season long slump when the rest of the regulars are in the lineup. Second, it's still fairly early in the season and these players shouldn't be worn out.   Pitchers are a different story but position players shouldn't get worn out this early in the season.  This isn't football or even basketball.  

 

Also, in baseball, days off are more of a mental thing than a physical thing.  They usually give baseball players time off when they are struggling so that they can rest their minds more than anything because they start to over analyze things.  

 

Lastly, I get that they are traveling across the United States but they are doing so in a very comfortable private airplane.  It's not like they are taking a bus across the country.  

 

 

​Oh, please.  That lineup could've easily scored 10 runs.  Also, would you rather them have a better chance of winning that game (which they wouldn't have) and being inevitably swept in four games by San Fran due to the whole roster being worn down OR would you rather take a risk with this one game and have our 1, 2, and 6 hitters fueled up for a long road trip against important contenders?  It's a 162-game season.  You've always gotta be thinking ahead.

And those of you claiming that a lineup whose 1-4 hitters are Ichiro, Hechavarria, Stanton, and Ozuna is "punting on first down" are just wrong...beyond dispute.

 

​I don't get it... you're saying they could have scored 10 and then said they wouldn't have beat the Phillies?

 

I get what you're saying about needing to rest guys but the lineup we put out there was significantly worse than the night before. Redmond dramatically lowered our chances to win only for the sake of resting guys and getting our bench guys a start. It's like he was counting on Cosart having a spotless start.

 

You don't concede a loss to any team for the sake of resting guys, every win counts (especially with our 3-11 start), I don't care if its against the Phillies (or the 2013 Marlins!). You rest guys, of course, but you do so while still giving your team an opportunity to win. There were many ways around this. What about resting Gordon Saturday so he can play Sunday while Prado was off? Its like Redmond said, "Eh, we won the series and have won 9 of 10, its' juuust the Phillies, let's give them this one."

 

 

Anyone know how Yelly is doing in his rehab assignment? Saw he struck out and went 0-2 the other day so I'm a little worried for him

 

 

​This is like talking to a fire hydrant...

 

Why because he countered your point with his own. I could repeat many other things that everyone else has stated after my original post that made just as much sense but I'm not going to. 

 

And to answer the statement you made below:

 

"why stagger them when you have a good chance of beating the Phillies with virtually any lineup in Major League history, and your next seven games are on the road against two perennial postseason contenders?

 

Because we didn't win, we didn't score 10 runs or anything close to it as many others had expected. Thats why you stager instead of having some of the hottest guys in your lineup taking days off on the same day or completely changing around their batting order.  Having one of the guys take off friday, one Saturday and one sunday is not going to screw them up that much that they can't play the west coast swing. We are one month into the season, not four. 

 

 

How is it hindsight to know that the Sunday lineup was worse than the Saturday lineup? 

 

 

Too many big words being used. I should've went to college instead of joining the military. I'm lost on phrases such as "conversational equivalent of a fire hydrant" like what??

 

players need rest, players get rest. Happened to be more than a few that got it, and unfortunately some of the guys are currently hot, it's a long season. Get as much rest early as you can so the last 81 you can play all of them.

 

 

​He didn't counter anything.  In order to make a counterpoint, you have to acknowledge the original point.  He did not, thus rendering him (and you) the conversational equivalent of a fire hydrant.

Repeating the tired points that rely solely on hindsight isn't convincing...at all.  Just let it go.  I have.

 

​You say the players need rest now. He presented his case to that statement. Resorting to name calling does not help sell your opinions. As Silver has already said, its not hindsight knowing that a lineup consisting of Dee, Prado and Realmuto would give you a better chance then, Solano x2 and Brignac. There is a reason they are backup/bench players. 

 

​Nobody debated that.  You're only further confirming the fire hydrant claim.

 

​Then please enlighten us, because i believe you got everyone following this topic completely lost as to what your real point is. What are they tired points and how are we relying on hindsight?

 

 

Rest your guys when they're on fire.

 

Yeah. 

 

 

I'm not seeing where anyone indicated that that you think Sundays lineup was better than our starting. All I have seen is where you stated that yesterday's lineup could score ten runs and that any major league lineup should beat the phillies and that there was no point to stagger days off because the phillies should have been beat.

 

 You still continue to focus on other stuff other than the main point we all are making, the fact that the days off should have been spread out over the weekend. 

 

 

No matter what lineup is playing, if you give up six runs, there's a good chance you're going to lose.

 

​Dude, life doesn't work this way. Change one thing, the game could have gone totally different. We could have won 20-3, or lost 1-2 in 16 innings. 

 

Point is, give yourself the best chance to win.

 

 

No.  I've addressed that about five times, but I wouldn't expect you to put in the effort of reading and comprehending before you continue to spew.

 

My reading comprehension is just fine. You've said once that there was no need to stagger because the phillies were bad and you said multiple times that you would rather have everyone ready for the west coast. I'll leave this conversation at that.

 

 

For starters, I'm not trying to argue with you. So if it's going there I'll bow out. We seem to have a differing opinion on a topic we're all passionate about so I keep engaging this only in an effort to respectfully see ur perspective. If that's ok, let's continue...

 

You seem to be ok with losing to the Phillies yesterday for the sake of resting everyone for the road trip. I can't understand that. We all agree with you that these guys need rest but you seem to be the only one thinking the way Redmond did it was the way to go. Am I wrong there? 

 

Also I don't think anything here is hindsight, we could have hypothetically had this conversation yesterday morning because it was clear then that that lineup was a potential problem.

 

 

​In my opinion, our lineup yesterday was not bad.  We lost due to the implosion of our pitching, and the daft game management by Brad Hand.  Saying we gave the game away by starting that lineup is implying that there is almost no doubt we would have won with our regular lineup, despite everything else that happened. 

The hindsight comes in when every point is hinged on the premise that we lost the game with that lineup.  That lineup was fully capable of scoring enough runs to win any game, especially against a team like the Phillies.  Also, virtually nobody is taking into account that the Phillies rested plenty of starters themselves.

 

I'm all in favor of taking the risk of playing a B lineup, which still had a viable shot at winning, in the interest of preserving our regulars for these upcoming road series against tough teams.  So we lost.  Whoop-dee-doo.  Our two World Series teams combined for 141 losses.  It happens.  We have won 9 of our last 11 games, and are heading into an important stretch.

 

Well, at least here your points are clear...

 

To the first point I bolded above, if everything was equal in yesterday's game besides the Marlins lineup, which it wouldn't have been, let's assume the Phillies still get six runs. The regular lineup or at least the addition of Gordon or Prado, would have had a better chance of matching the Phillies six runs. It's not a no doubt thing but the chances would have increased by plenty.

 

Beyond that, especially with our 3-11 start, every win counts. Can't just say Ohh it's ok to lose because our 2 World championship teams also lost some games. There were ways to rest guys without taking such a huge chunk of our offense out. And the Phillies rested guys too? More reason to go for the throat and take that win from them. We should have taken advantage of them and they stole one from Redmond himself.

 

 But with ur last post and this one from me, I think our points are out there now so it is what it is. I'm down to move on. Let's win this one tonight buddy.

 

 

And this thread is going the way of Old Yeller.