I hear ya. I wonder if teams actually value Naylor like the marlins do. But yeah, I'd have been cool with that is if they actually signed kennedy and sayyyyyy Maeda!  (I do not expect either)

 

For what it's worth, I normally wouldn't have much interest in a trade like this. I just think it's a shame that this team has almost no shot of competing with the current roster WITH JOSE FERNANDEZ AND GIANCARLO STANTON on the roster.

 

All we needed this offseason was to upgrade the pitching (preferably the SP, but an elite bullpen upgrade never hurts especially considering the SP alternatives).

 

Like, how dumb does a front office have to be to get two generational talents and accomplish nothing with them? It's terrible. Any other organization and the window to win would be right now. The Marlins, however, have no plan/direction yet again. 

 

 

For what it's worth, I normally wouldn't have much interest in a trade like this. I just think it's a shame that this team has almost no shot of competing with the current roster WITH JOSE FERNANDEZ AND GIANCARLO STANTON on the roster.

 

All we needed this offseason was to upgrade the pitching (preferably the SP, but an elite bullpen upgrade never hurts especially considering the SP alternatives).

 

Like, how dumb does a front office have to be to get two generational talents and accomplish nothing with them? It's terrible. Any other organization and the window to win would be right now. The Marlins, however, have no plan/direction yet again. 

 

They have a plan - save money.

 

But seriously, I'm not going to get belligerent until they don't sign one of Kennedy, Chen, Kazmir, Maeda, or Gallardo. Get one of them (i.e., a # 3 SP), let Benedict pluck a cheap reclamation project for the 5th SP spot, like Lincecum, C. Lee, G. Floyd, whoever., and acquire a warm body who can hit LHP and play 1B or 3B (cause Prado can play 1B against lefties so a 3B who hits lefties is A-OK for me for the inevitable Bour platoon), and they look pretty good. They are still probably 2-3 good players away (another SP being likely the only major concern, glad they have Kolek and not Rodon!), but that should get them to July and see how everyone is shaping up to see if they need to go out and get some help. I'm really not opposed to them passing on the ludicrous Greinke, Cueto, Price, Zimmerman, and Leake deals when it comes down to it.

 

They still have time. Although their margin of error certainly diminishes by the day. I'm not optimistic, but no sense in getting angry just yet. There are a dozen major free agents left which will change teams attitudes, both in FA and in trades. I think there is a lot more movement coming across baseball this offseason.

 

 

Seeing what the Yanks had to give up to get Chapman only proves how dumb the rest of MLB is for not making this trade. This is exactly why I expect the Yankees to be great again soon.

 

 

Seeing what the Yanks had to give up to get Chapman only proves how dumb the rest of MLB is for not making this trade. This is exactly why I expect the Yankees to be great again soon.

 

well there is that whole domestic violence thing with chapman which scared a bunch of teams off (understandably so)

 

 

well there is that whole domestic violence thing with chapman which scared a bunch of teams off (rightfully so)

 

That is noted, but who cares. What do u lose? Career Triple-A players, maybe an average future MLB player. Chapman is Chapman. Trade for him anyday. Especially a team like us in desperate need of anything we can get.

 

 

Whenever I see @MarlinsLou mention Rodon I start to grind my teeth. Horrible decision to take Kolek.

 

 

Whenever I see @MarlinsLou mention Rodon I start to grind my teeth. Horrible decision to take Kolek.

 

good decision for loria's pocketbook though

 

 

good decision for loria's pocketbook though

 

Rodon got roughly $600,000 more bucks than Kolek as a signing bonus. $6.58 to $6 in favor of Rodon.

 

My guess is, the Marlins will be paying a 5th SP this year more than $600,000 from league minimum, making this decision stupid financially, as well as on the field. This was a bad decision for the pocketbook too.

 

It's literally idiotic, unless they have a health report where his elbow or shoulder is going to explode within 3 years because he was overworked in college. Hopefully we can look back in 5 years and say this was smart, but for right now, it is abysmal on every conceivable level.

 

 

Whenever I see @MarlinsLou mention Rodon I start to grind my teeth. Horrible decision to take Kolek.

 

Hopefully Benedict will be able to help in the development of Kolek.  

 

 

Rodon got roughly $600,000 more bucks than Kolek as a signing bonus. $6.58 to $6 in favor of Rodon.

 

My guess is, the Marlins will be paying a 5th SP this year more than $600,000 from league minimum, making this decision stupid financially, as well as on the field. This was a bad decision for the pocketbook too.

 

It's literally idiotic, unless they have a health report where his elbow or shoulder is going to explode within 3 years because he was overworked in college. Hopefully we can look back in 5 years and say this was smart, but for right now, it is abysmal on every conceivable level.

 

How Mike Hill still is employed is a fantastic question.

 

 

boy benedict sure has his work cut out for him!

 

 

How Mike Hill still is employed is a fantastic question.

 

Did Hill pick Kolek over Rodon, or did Loria say NO because Rodon was asking for $8 million pre-draft? I'm not sure we'll know.

 

Again, not defending Hill, but I have no idea if he is good at his job when his boss holds the puppet strings.

 

 

Did Hill pick Kolek over Rodon, or did Loria say NO because Rodon was asking for $8 million pre-draft? I'm not sure we'll know.

 

Again, not defending Hill, but I have no idea if he is good at his job when his boss holds the puppet strings.

 

If it was actually a baseball decision wouldnt it have been Jennings more than Hill anyway?

 

 

At this point I believe it's commonly assumed the decision to take Kolek over Rodon was because of money reasons (Rodon was asking for #1 overall pick money at the time, represented by Scott Boras, whom we've had issues with during the Jose/Ozuna negotiations), as well as health reasons. I feel like people casually forget that Rodon had clearly regressed his final year at NC State and was throwing around 130 pitches a game. The coach at NC State was clearly milking every bit they could out of Rodon and it was hurting him. The last thing people forget is that Kolek was a hell of a prospect in his own right. Nobody had a 100 MPH+ fastball in their arsenal in this draft outside of him, his high school ERA was something like 0.49 and he didn't walk many people at all, signaling no issues with control. Sure, we overlooked the fact that his secondary pitches weren't even close to defined yet, but at 18 years old there seemed plenty of time to develop them. There still is time. 

 

I was on the Rodon over Kolek train at the time, but people seem to forget how close the decision actually was at the time. There was still a solid chance of Rodon being damaged goods, and Kolek becoming the next Jose Fernandez. The decision was one that will hurt this franchise for a long time given our tight budgets, but it is one that countless other GMs would've made I believe.

 

 

As for the topic of Chapman, I have no problem with the Marlins being in the race. The price for Chapman fell significantly after the domestic violence allegations, and Chapman would've been a huge player to get even on a one year rental. He's one of the best closers in the league, and while the allegations made against him are awful in nature, they have no bearing on his play on the field or his role in the locker room. I think it's fair to say that outside of Kolek/Naylor we didn't have any prospects that would've intrigued the Reds. But the truth is I would've been willing to trade anybody in our current farm system outside of Naylor to get Chapman for the season. Hell, even if we completely suck next year then Chapman just becomes trade bait at the deadline and we could end up recovering prospects when his value builds itself back up in July.

 

 

Here's a little refresher course on Kolek pre 2015 just FYI for anyone from Kiley before the braves hired him in their FO

 

Scouting Report: Kolek jumped on the national scene in the summer of 2013 after hitting 100 mph at the Area Code Games regional tryout in Texas, just after the 2013 MLB draft. He then showed up at most of the major events over the summer, where his velocity ranged from 93-98, hitting 100 mph in early innings, but sometimes would dip to the low 90’s in longer outings. His sharp low-80’s curveball would flash plus but was often just average to above, while he only very sparingly threw a nascent changeup.

 

Last spring, Kolek’s competition was very poor in a small town outside of Houston, and he struck out over half of the players he faced. He never had to use his changeup in games and his breaking ball got even less consistent, only occasionally flashing plus, while he fiddled with throwing both a curveball and slider, a recipe for disaster for many previous draft prospects. He regularly hit 100 mph and got even bigger, hitting 270 pounds (but not getting fat, just big), which allowed him to hold his velocity regularly in the 93-97 mph range deep into games.

 

After going second overall, Kolek was just okay in the Rookie-level GCL, sitting 91-94 mph and having the command/secondary/consistency issues you would expect given what he faced during the spring.  It’s normal for prep arms to have their velo back up a bit after the draft, as it’s the longest season of their young careers, so no one is concerned. The Marlins prefer Kolek’s curveball, given the action, consistency to the break and his slot and they actually tweaked his grip a bit, giving it a more downward break. He’ll shelve the slider for now (though it may come back later, particularly if the curveball doesn’t improve) and focus on integrating the changeup more often in games.

 

I ranked Kolek 6th in my last pre-draft rankings, which was lower than almost every scout and publication I could find. I’m concerned that given the relative rawness and the absurd arm speed that Kolek will take longer to develop than many are expecting and that, if Kolek keeps throwing in the upper-90’s, the odds of a Tommy Johnsurgery coming are pretty high. There’s obvious allure to a Texas-bred offensive tackle that lives on a farm, bales hay and throws 100 mph, but there’s some real concerns he needs to address in the next couple years.

 

The Marlins are aware of this and one club official said the plan is to have Kolek to throw whatever is comfortable, whether that’s low, mid or upper 90’s and more of a sinker or four-seamer. If he starts throwing for the radar gun and losing his mechanics, this could turn into a problem, but the athleticism and broad indicators in the delivery are there to stay healthy and throw strikes if the mental approach is correct.

 

Summation: Kolek’s 2015 assignment will be a wait-and-see situation based on how he looks in Spring Training, but the expectation is that he’ll head to Low-A. There’s enough raw talent that he could shoot through the minors if he makes quick adjustments and needs to be challenged by better hitters. I’d caution patience and expect multiple years at the A-Ball levels.

 

 

Admin, was Kolek mentioned as a possible trade candidate for Chapman?

 

 

Admin, was Kolek mentioned as a possible trade candidate for Chapman?

 

Nope

 

 

What the Yankees gave up to get Chapman is a joke.

 

 

At this point I believe it's commonly assumed the decision to take Kolek over Rodon was because of money reasons (Rodon was asking for #1 overall pick money at the time, represented by Scott Boras, whom we've had issues with during the Jose/Ozuna negotiations), as well as health reasons. I feel like people casually forget that Rodon had clearly regressed his final year at NC State and was throwing around 130 pitches a game. The coach at NC State was clearly milking every bit they could out of Rodon and it was hurting him. The last thing people forget is that Kolek was a hell of a prospect in his own right. Nobody had a 100 MPH+ fastball in their arsenal in this draft outside of him, his high school ERA was something like 0.49 and he didn't walk many people at all, signaling no issues with control. Sure, we overlooked the fact that his secondary pitches weren't even close to defined yet, but at 18 years old there seemed plenty of time to develop them. There still is time. 

 

I was on the Rodon over Kolek train at the time, but people seem to forget how close the decision actually was at the time. There was still a solid chance of Rodon being damaged goods, and Kolek becoming the next Jose Fernandez. The decision was one that will hurt this franchise for a long time given our tight budgets, but it is one that countless other GMs would've made I believe.

 

I have to disagree here on another level - player control.

 

At the time, the Marlins knew they had 3-4 years of Fernandez left only, and a variety of other players all hitting arbitration at the same time. i.e., it would be difficult to keep everyone together and they need cheap options that can play with rising salaries.

 

If they were smart, they would have realized that their window is aligned with "having Fernandez and Stanton on the team," and it would be the best for them to draft college players so they could hopefully develop fast and cheaply contribute during Fernandez arbitration years/Stanton pay increase years before he obviously opts out of this train wreck.

 

With this knowledge clearly understandable to all in the land, they took a guy 5+ years away. That in itself, is criminal with the MLB assets and contending window they had/have. Sure, I can buy Rodon medical issues. I get it. But if not him, you take Nola (or I guess Schwarber who moved real fast). Each drafted after Kolek, each is going to be a big player in 2016. I am shocked Nola moved so fast, but you'd still think he was ETA 2017 in a worst case scenario which is still in line with helping the team in Fernandez/Stanton years.

 

I understand the MLB draft is a BPA situation, but you're talking negligible upside differences with top 10 picks. Take the guy who can help you contend, not the one to lead the rebuild.

 

I hope Kolek has the last laugh here and becomes Roger Clemens or Josh Beckett, but there is simply no level of analysis where you don't take Rodon unless its medical, and its still not Rodon if he flunked. You take Nola next as the next best polished college SP. I'm really not saying that in hindsight, I'm saying that as it was the obvious choice for this team to have taken a fast moving starting pitcher. They didn't do it. This one is all on them. I can live with the Disco and Heaney deals (assuming they couldn't have dumped Nicolino instead of Heaney, which is just absurd if they didn't do that), but this draft pick I cannot see being a smart decision.

 

 

This one is all on them. I can live with the Disco and Heaney deals (assuming they couldn't have dumped Nicolino instead of Heaney, which is just absurd if they didn't do that), but this draft pick I cannot see being a smart decision.

 

Admin has confirmed to me multiple teams (i ask a lot as I still can't believe it) that the marlins did indeed have the choice of nico or heaney. Can you imagine this trade if Dee Gordon regresses like a lot of folks said he would (he's reached that ab point where I'm a believer + I love Dee)?

 

I do have a problem with all this SP deals in addition to the kolek over rodon/nola thing. The FO ignored obvious signs of a declining pitcher in Latos (no analytics dept to say otherwise) via his peripherals which were on a clear downward trajectory. All they saw was that shiny ERA. Also, don't forget the eovaldi deal as well (check out his 2nd half when he started throwing that 2 seamer with success). Sure we got prado who was a delightful surprise on defense, but I'd much rather have EO back. There is a common theme with this front office of not properly evaluating their pitchers and making pretty bad decisions and then we fans have to suffer while they complain about having no money. This team could be sitting on jose/henaey/disco/eovaldi/TK/conley pretty easily. 

 

 

once again, why the hell didnt they sign Lackey? Cubs got a great deal on him

 

 

More like we could have Jose/Alvarez/Heaney/Rodon/Disco/Eovaldi/Nicolino/TK/Conley/Urena, but that is under the scenario they make zero mistakes and they need to find solutions for 2B and 3B in other moves.

 

 

What the Yankees gave up to get Chapman is a joke.

 

This

 

 

once again, why the hell didnt they sign Lackey? Cubs got a great deal on him

 

Because he wants to play for a winner