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Marlins, Hill Parting Ways


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Saw some tweets saying the Marlins won too much this year and this organization doesn't want that so that's why they canned Hill, Mike Hill was too good so they couldn't tank anymore... that's funny. Funnier than the usual cheap jokes. I'll give credit for this one.

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56 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

Saw some tweets saying the Marlins won too much this year and this organization doesn't want that so that's why they canned Hill, Mike Hill was too good so they couldn't tank anymore... that's funny. Funnier than the usual cheap jokes. I'll give credit for this one.

I'm thinking of one MLB movie that the female owner of one MLB  team wants her team to loss.

I think it's this,

 

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Edited by taiwanmarlin
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4 hours ago, SilverBullet said:

A bit of a stretch on these here...

I highly doubt they have a problem with Isan opting out, especially since he did return.

Brinson matured late but he's improved so he's done the work and I doubt they punish him for it. He deserves plenty of praise for his 2020.

I'm not sold on Alfaro being demoted. He lost his spot over a span of 5 games, postseason games in which our starting pitching needed to be almost pristine, and there were clear signs that the pitching was better with Wallach especially in the last several weeks. But it was still just 5 games. If anything it was more of a compliment to Wallach than a punishment to Alfaro. If we go through a full season with Alfaro and Wallach again there's almost no chance Alfaro suddenly gets less starts than Wallach. I just don't think they've actually given up on Alfaro. I'll need more proof over way more than just a 5 game span.

And Elieser was so great this year, he's another one who stepped up and proved he can be a part of this team, he's not being demoted or punished.

In every one of those situations it's very possible the Marlins look for more options, more help, more depth but you're making it sound like all four of those guys are on the way out as a punishment in the same way Villar was and I don't see that at all.

I'm stretching, if you want to call it that, because Jeter has done a lot of firing, from the mascot to the last remaining member (Hill) of the Loria regime.  Let's not forget how Jeter fired them either, besides Hill it was pretty ruthless.  Mattingly would have been canned as well if he didn't take a lower salary.  I'm not sure how I'm reaching based on these facts.  Players are different obviously, but Jeter is clear that he wants winners with the same mindset. 

 Isan taking leave due to covid definitely hurt his place with the team. With all the covid positives we had in the beginning of the year, everyone stuck together and filled in the gap.  When Isan returned, did he even get one AB?  I know every game was crucial then, but I don't think he had on AB.  Can you tell me how many other players in the league took shelter from covid?  I get the fact that you have the right to protect yourself, nothing wrong with that but if all your teammates go out to do a job with high risks, than yeah, that's something that needs to be weighed and I'm sure it will be. 

Alfaro didn't start in one PLAYOFF game.  If that doesn't tell you something than I don't know what else to say. He couldn't even hit in the DH spot.  We wouldn't even have made the playoffs if Mattingly didn't go with Wallach the last week of the regular season.  Go look at Alfaros last 6 starts, it's night and day. 

Brinson had a decent year for how bad he has been.  He still didn't get as many starts as he could have down the stretch, only against LHP, while Joyce took all his ABs vs RHP.  Why would you be shocked if he was traded?

Elieser has good value right now, that's why I put him on my list. I also mentioned that his injury occurred from not preparing mid way between his start, because Mattingly was visibly upset about it.  

If you put things in perspective, that no one is safe from Jeter, based on all his moves thus far, than it's more than reasonable why I mentioned those players.  It's not punishment, it's businesses based on a mindset of players who want to win.  Of course I don't know what goes on behind close doors, it's just speculation. But I do see a pattern as well. 

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3 minutes ago, jeffreysfishfry said:

I'm stretching, if you want to call it that, because Jeter has done a lot of firing, from the mascot to the last remaining member (Hill) of the Loria regime.  Let's not forget how Jeter fired them either, besides Hill it was pretty ruthless.  Mattingly would have been canned as well if he didn't take a lower salary.  I'm not sure how I'm reaching based on these facts.  Players are different obviously, but Jeter is clear that he wants winners with the same mindset. 

 Isan taking leave due to covid definitely hurt his place with the team. With all the covid positives we had in the beginning of the year, everyone stuck together and filled in the gap.  When Isan returned, did he even get one AB?  I know every game was crucial then, but I don't think he had on AB.  Can you tell me how many other players in the league took shelter from covid?  I get the fact that you have the right to protect yourself, nothing wrong with that but if all your teammates go out to do a job with high risks, than yeah, that's something that needs to be weighed and I'm sure it will be. 

Alfaro didn't start in one PLAYOFF game.  If that doesn't tell you something than I don't know what else to say. He couldn't even hit in the DH spot.  We wouldn't even have made the playoffs if Mattingly didn't go with Wallach the last week of the regular season.  Go look at Alfaros last 6 starts, it's night and day. 

Brinson had a decent year for how bad he has been.  He still didn't get as many starts as he could have down the stretch, only against LHP, while Joyce took all his ABs vs RHP.  Why would you be shocked if he was traded?

Elieser has good value right now, that's why I put him on my list. I also mentioned that his injury occurred from not preparing mid way between his start, because Mattingly was visibly upset about it.  

If you put things in perspective, that no one is safe from Jeter, based on all his moves thus far, than it's more than reasonable why I mentioned those players.  It's not punishment, it's businesses based on a mindset of players who want to win.  Of course I don't know what goes on behind close doors, it's just speculation. But I do see a pattern as well. 

All of the players you mentioned have done enough to remain with the organization for now. You're making it sound like Jeter cans everyone at the first sign of trouble.

Firing the guy in the Billy costume probably had nothing to do with Jeter, why would Jeter care about who plays Billy? That was only "news" because it happened when Jeter was doing his fire sale so some people had to try and make it seem like the mascot was part of the fire sale which is even more ridiculous as I type it right now.

Anyways, back to the players, Jeter promotes competition and all of those players should get a shot to keep competing for their roles next year even if other options are brought in. Would I be shocked if any of them are traded away? Of course not because if a trade makes this team better they'll do it. But you're making it seem like they're on Jeter's shit list and are guaranteed to be on the way out and I just don't see that and I already gave all my reasons for each player in my earlier post. I guess you just see all those players as "glass half empty" and I see them all as "glass half full."

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12 minutes ago, jeffreysfishfry said:

I'm stretching, if you want to call it that, because Jeter has done a lot of firing, from the mascot to the last remaining member (Hill) of the Loria regime.  Let's not forget how Jeter fired them either, besides Hill it was pretty ruthless.  Mattingly would have been canned as well if he didn't take a lower salary.  I'm not sure how I'm reaching based on these facts.  Players are different obviously, but Jeter is clear that he wants winners with the same mindset. 

 Isan taking leave due to covid definitely hurt his place with the team. With all the covid positives we had in the beginning of the year, everyone stuck together and filled in the gap.  When Isan returned, did he even get one AB?  I know every game was crucial then, but I don't think he had on AB.  Can you tell me how many other players in the league took shelter from covid?  I get the fact that you have the right to protect yourself, nothing wrong with that but if all your teammates go out to do a job with high risks, than yeah, that's something that needs to be weighed and I'm sure it will be. 

Alfaro didn't start in one PLAYOFF game.  If that doesn't tell you something than I don't know what else to say. He couldn't even hit in the DH spot.  We wouldn't even have made the playoffs if Mattingly didn't go with Wallach the last week of the regular season.  Go look at Alfaros last 6 starts, it's night and day. 

Brinson had a decent year for how bad he has been.  He still didn't get as many starts as he could have down the stretch, only against LHP, while Joyce took all his ABs vs RHP.  Why would you be shocked if he was traded?

Elieser has good value right now, that's why I put him on my list. I also mentioned that his injury occurred from not preparing mid way between his start, because Mattingly was visibly upset about it.  

If you put things in perspective, that no one is safe from Jeter, based on all his moves thus far, than it's more than reasonable why I mentioned those players.  It's not punishment, it's businesses based on a mindset of players who want to win.  Of course I don't know what goes on behind close doors, it's just speculation. But I do see a pattern as well. 

There's a lot in here, very little of which I think is accurate, but I'll take two items and focus on them. First, Isan absolutely played when he returned. He was playing every day, in fact, until he got injured. Unless your theory here involves Derek injuring Diaz, it is completely baseless.

Second, I would contend Derek has not been "ruthless" in the personnel department. I can only think of Chip Bowers as an employee in the last 3 years who was let go before his contract was up. Pretty much all the remaining turnover has gone from contracts not getting renewed, which is very normal in an industry like this with lots of turnover. Even moreso for a team undergoing a leadership change.

But because it was Jeter and because it was the Marlins, there was extra coverage given to every contract non-renewal -- like do we really think the upper levels of leadership knew one of its low-level scouts was undergoing cancer treatments? Is that really a story? (I think arguably the bigger story is how crooked our medical industry is if an underperforming employee has to be retained or risk losing his life. THAT'S what's fucked up.)

That said, any player is tradeable. There's a right package for Anderson, Alcantara, Rojas, and Lopez. But I highly doubt personal grudges will be a deciding factor in the process.

Edited by Photo-Realistic Billy
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The scout that was "fired while undergoing cancer treatment..."

His contract expired and it was not renewed. He happened to have cancer and happened to be in the hopsital recovering from a surgery when his contract expired. It's just bad timing, it's not a ruthless move. But let the media spin it however they want.

Could it have been handled differently? Likely yes. That doesn't mean Jeter is an evil person for this move.

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2 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

The scout that was "fired while undergoing cancer treatment..."

His contract expired and it was not renewed. He happened to have cancer and happened to be in the hopsital recovering from a surgery when his contract expired. It's just bad timing, it's not a ruthless move. But let the media spin it however they want.

Could it have been handled differently? Likely yes. That doesn't mean Jeter is an evil person for this move.

Yeah the people on twitter yesterday saying "Wow Jeter fired someone who didn't have cancer?" were despicable. Besides the fact, Hill wasn't fired either

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3 minutes ago, Photo-Realistic Billy said:

There's a lot in here, very little of which I think is accurate, but I'll take two items and focus on them. First, Isan absolutely played when he returned. He was playing every day, in fact, until he got injured. Unless your theory here involves Derek injuring Diaz, it is completely baseless.

Second, I would contend Derek has not been "ruthless" in three personnel departments. I can only think of Chip Bowers as an employee in the last 3 years who was let go before his contract was up. Pretty much all the remaining turnover has gone from contracts not getting renewed, which is very normal in an industry like this with lots of turnover. Even moreso for a team undergoing a leadership change.

But because it was Jeter and because it was the Marlins, there was extra coverage given to every contract non-renewal -- like do we really think the upper levels of leadership knew one of its low-level scouts was undergoing cancer treatments? Is that really a story? (I think arguably the bigger story is how crooked our medical industry is if an underperforming employee has to be retained or risk losing his life. THAT'S what's fucked up.)

That said, any player is tradeable. There's a right package for Anderson, Alcantara, Rojas, and Lopez. But I highly doubt personal grudges will be a deciding factor in the process.

I thought Conine and Dawson was an issue based on the media's view point. Others in here took exception to it as well. I'm not saying personally Jeter is ruthless, it was more of the common belief in here that inspired the word "ruthless".  Nonetheless Jeter is all business and that is my main point of view.  

With Isan, I could be wrong but after his fifth start, didn't he opt out due to covid? Yeah he returned but I don't recall him getting any playing time.  Excuse me if he did. 

Why are you coming at me with what the media and how they purposely spin there agendas?  Am I posting anything more than what I see with a clear expression that it's just pure speculation?

Im trying to make points in favor of Jeter, how he's turning this organization around into a winning culture.  I know about the media and how Jeter hasn't had a fair chance.  That is why this season was so great because it would shut the media down against Jeter and let him do his job. 

 

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You're telling me Silver, SOJ or Realistic never expressed any of the firings of the old staff as wrong in the sense of how they where fired at the time?

Yet now they are even keeled and all seeing. 

Edited by jeffreysfishfry
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5 minutes ago, jeffreysfishfry said:

You're telling me Silver, SOJ or Realistic never expressed any of the firings of the old staff as wrong in the sense of how they where fired at the time?

Yet know they are even keeled and all seeing. 

What am I being accused of here? I need it clarified so I can fight back.

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49 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

All of the players you mentioned have done enough to remain with the organization for now. You're making it sound like Jeter cans everyone at the first sign of trouble.

Firing the guy in the Billy costume probably had nothing to do with Jeter, why would Jeter care about who plays Billy? That was only "news" because it happened when Jeter was doing his fire sale so some people had to try and make it seem like the mascot was part of the fire sale which is even more ridiculous as I type it right now.

Anyways, back to the players, Jeter promotes competition and all of those players should get a shot to keep competing for their roles next year even if other options are brought in. Would I be shocked if any of them are traded away? Of course not because if a trade makes this team better they'll do it. But you're making it seem like they're on Jeter's shit list and are guaranteed to be on the way out and I just don't see that and I already gave all my reasons for each player in my earlier post. I guess you just see all those players as "glass half empty" and I see them all as "glass half full."

Jeter I'm sure was involved in billy the Marlin. It screams Jeter, just watch some of the media's interviews with Jeter.  He leaves no stone unturned. 

My list of players certainly doesn't sound anything you call "first sign of trouble."  Brinson and Alfaro had preformance issues two years ago, so keep exaggerating. 

Elieser was mentioned, again because he has good trade value and maybe his injury could have a last deciding factor if the trade was right. Lol. 

Isan hasn't preformed and needs more time, I'm just saying when you leave your teammates right or wrong it could be an issue. I'm not sure why this is getting spinned into me being sounding like a media hit job. 

 

 

 

 

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On 10/18/2020 at 9:20 AM, Michael said:

Honestly, no thanks.

He'll do whatever he can to win now and that includes depleting farm systems. Look at the Tigers and Red Sox.

That was kinda the mandate from ownership though.

With the Red Sox it was go fucking win and thats it.   Then after they won ownership was like, eh fuck this.  That's on John Henry for being a douche.  

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2 hours ago, jeffreysfishfry said:

You're telling me Silver, SOJ or Realistic never expressed any of the firings of the old staff as wrong in the sense of how they where fired at the time?

Yet now they are even keeled and all seeing. 

I have definitely criticized Jeter when I've felt necessary, namely the mishandled firings of Conine Dawson McKeon and Perez. But you're making Jeter sound ruthless, vindictive, and impulsive and I don't see that. And specifically about the 4 players you mentioned earlier, I see nothing that tells me Jeter will be so brutal with them moving forward. 

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13 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

I have definitely criticized Jeter when I've felt necessary, namely the mishandled firings of Conine Dawson McKeon and Perez. But you're making Jeter sound ruthless, vindictive, and impulsive and I don't see that. And specifically about the 4 players you mentioned earlier, I see nothing that tells me Jeter will be so brutal with them moving forward. 

If Jeter "mishandled" Conine Dawson McKeon and Perez, why then are you defending him, like it's out of the realm for him to remove players for reasons I stated above and now below?

Villar was traded for peanuts at the time. It's a message that if you are hurting the team he will trade you, even if that trade isn't an immediate result to improving the current team. Most teams in our position would have just kept Villar for the return we received. If you don't think that trade was to send a message, what can I say.

I made it sound impulsive with Alfaro and Brinson?  Really? You make it sound like those two have been all-stars, yet who knows if they will even be starting next year.   I brought both those players up based on performance, not because anything vindictive.  Move on pls. 

Elieser has good value, and maybe again that injury will be a last deciding factor if a deal is proposed. Does that sound vindictive?

Isan well like I said, that's pure speculation, and he hasn't done well either, nothing to make a stink about. It is a message board and I was throwing out some ideas. Lol

 

 

 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

Will do. Maybe I misread your original post. 

My original post could have used some clearity. I didn't imagine  "ruthless" would have cause so much rage, but then again it's 2020.

What I was trying to relay with Jeter being "ruthless" was in a good way and that he will handle business decisions in his way, conventionally or not, and maybe the same pattern for players as well.

Im not sure how a poster who calls himself realistic groups me into the bias media, presuming  I speak with the same tongue as them, referring to a cancer victim who Jeter fired unaware. 

Maybe I misread to. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by jeffreysfishfry
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57 minutes ago, jeffreysfishfry said:

My original post could have used some clearity. I didn't imagine  "ruthless" would have cause so much rage, but then again it's 2020.

What I was trying to relay with Jeter being "ruthless" was in a good way and that he will handle business decisions in his way, conventionally or not, and maybe the same pattern for players as well.

Im not sure how a poster who calls himself realistic groups me into the bias media, presuming  I speak with the same tongue as them, referring to a cancer victim who Jeter fired unaware. 

Maybe I misread to. 

 

 

 

 

 

I definitely wasn't trying to group you in with the media bias, that went off on a tangent because of the scout with cancer topic. 

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59 minutes ago, jeffreysfishfry said:

What I was trying to relay with Jeter being "ruthless" was in a good way and that he will handle business decisions in his way, conventionally or not, and maybe the same pattern for players as well.

I do agree with this. 

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So two things. First on the topic of Mike Hill, I was a little surprised his contract was not renewed. However, it was said an agreement did not come to fruition because of salary. Based solely on the Marlins performance this year, Hill should get another gig. Although Mike Hill will always remain one of the bigger mysteries in South Florida sports history because he didn’t seem to have any power under the Jeter regime, but had too much power under the Loria regime. We’ll never know the full story. Second, on Derek Jeter, not all of his moves have been home runs by any stretch. I can’t speak on the scout who was in the hospital because I don’t have enough information. The firing of marlins luminaries like Conine, Perez, and Dawson I didn’t like, nor the new design of the Marlins mascot. I actually like the look of the stadium now and am happy Jeter seems to care more about fan input. Back to focusing on the field though. The Marlins had two abysmal seasons before this one, but in the third year of the “build”, the Marlins made the playoffs for the first time in 17 years, first time over .500 since 2009, and won a playoff series. By all things considered, it was a great season even though there’s the caveat it was only 60 games. Now, assuming the 2021 season will be a normal 162 games, personally, I am expecting the Marlins to make the playoffs, whatever size it may be between 5-8 teams per league. I do think the amount of playoff teams before the 2020 season may have been a factor to why the Marlins had a long playoff drought, but that’s a conversation for another day. If the Marlins finish under .500 next season and miss the playoffs, I think fans will have every right to be concerned 2020 was a one hit wonder. To the point of Marlins nemesis David Samson, Jeter has nowhere to turn now. All moves made from this point out, whether it be in the front office, on the field, or anything else behind the scenes, will be on him. I believe the front office needs to start spending money soon, but with the coronavirus pandemic and lack of a new tv deal, I can understand if that can’t happen this offseason. If that is the case, Jeter needs to hit on big waiver claims, cheap deals like the kintzler one this season, and place an importance on the rule 5 draft. I want to trust Jeter will turn the Marlins into a perennial contender as a fan, but I have my skepticism about it. I do believe somehow someway, Marlins WILL make the playoffs again in 2021. If it’s all about winning from here on out, anything less than that will be a colossal failure.   

Edited by Italian Marlins Fan
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