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Marlins general manager Kim Ng has taken notice of Sanchez’s month-long success but noted last week that

“We just want to make sure he’s getting his at-bats,” Ng said. “I don’t have any timetable on when we expect to see him up here, but the most important thing for him and for a number of others of these guys who didn’t have a minor-league season last year ... I think it’s really, really important for them to just make sure that they’re seeing their at-bats, they’re having some success and really just try to be consistent.”

🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

https://amp.miamiherald.com/sports/mlb/miami-marlins/article251742428.html?__twitter_impression=true

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59 minutes ago, Ema2R said:

Marlins general manager Kim Ng has taken notice of Sanchez’s month-long success but noted last week that

“We just want to make sure he’s getting his at-bats,” Ng said. “I don’t have any timetable on when we expect to see him up here, but the most important thing for him and for a number of others of these guys who didn’t have a minor-league season last year ... I think it’s really, really important for them to just make sure that they’re seeing their at-bats, they’re having some success and really just try to be consistent.”

🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

https://amp.miamiherald.com/sports/mlb/miami-marlins/article251742428.html?__twitter_impression=true

In a vacuum, I agree with her.  In a perfect world, there'd be no ML injuries, and you'd leave guys down to get more seasoning after not playing at all last year.  I'd also be ok/agree with it if it were only a few games into the minor league season - could be a hot start and then he craters.  I don't follow super closely, but from what I've seen he's been doing well pretty consistently for weeks now.

We don't live in a perfect world, nor is it a vacuum where one thing doesn't affect the other.  The ML team has clearly been struggling offensively for weeks on end, and he's an obvious "easy" lever to pull to help the ML team.  Maybe he comes up and stinks, and you send him back down.  It's clearly service time manipulation at this point because they think he'll be something.....but at the same time, you're wasting service time of guys that are already here?

If they were way out of it, I'd also get it, no need to rush for "nothing."  But they're still in it.....though that 1.5-3 game deficit has become a 5 game deficit already.  Not insurmountable, obviously with how much of the season there still is, but they can't keep dilly-dallying if they want to stay in it.

Now their excuse will be 'our guys are healthy again, we don't need him.'

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So I'm trying to do some math to figure out a service time estimate for him, and it's hard to figure out.

 

I have a few fairly certain date parameters, and others I'm not certain about.....I'll throw them out there to see what you guys think.

 

From this article, I found out

Quote

A typical MLB regular season -- it's worth emphasizing the word "typical" in light of the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic -- spans 187 days, and players must be on the 26-man roster or injured list for at least 172 of those days in order to accrue a full year of service time (or 172 across multiple seasons). Stated another way, players can be off the active roster/IL for up to 15 days during a season and still earn a year of service time. Also, players can't earn more than 172 days of service time in a season even if they exceed that number of days on the roster or IL.

So basically, 16+ days off the ML/IL roster and they get an extra year of control - let's round it up to 20 for some leeway.

 

According to MLB.com, here's Jesus Sanchez's transaction history, with some notes I've added:

image.thumb.png.27299e422a50bb9d142345041be8b12b.png

 

 

I've calculated a "for sure" 15 41days - he only appeared in 10 games last year, but was on the roster for 15 days: 12 from August 21, 2020 - September 1, 2020, and 3 more from September 28th, 2020 - September 30th, 2020 when he was optioned again.  @Michael pointed out that last season, 1 day of service time equaled 2.7 days.

Where it gets fuzzy for me is some other areas - the ? marks:

  • At the bottom, it shows he was recalled from NO in Sept. 30th of 2019, which was after their season ended - and he was then optioned down the following March of 2020 - it's not part of the season, but were any days accrued here?  Did Sept. 30th count on the roster?  Was there a day or two in Oct that counted?
  • At the top, there's a series of transactions starting with an "activation" of him Oct 9, 2020, but he had been reassigned to the minors before this, so I'm guessing it doesn't apply to the ML roster
  • Same goes for April of this year - April 1 - it has them putting him on the IL, but THEN on April 20th, assign him to the ATS on April 21st - he was assigned to AAA on May 1
  • As far as I understand ATS players do NOT get service time, but the April 1 to April 20 injury period has thrown me off.

 

So here's what we've got:

image.thumb.png.4b8f53f0ba14b721913a35a7a1f70163.png

If there were 15 41 "for sure" days, plus guesses for potential additional time, let's say 22, which comes to 37 63 potential days on the roster already.

172 is a full year of service time, so I subtracted the potential total from that - I'm guesstimating he has to be on the roster less than 135 110 days to retain that extra year of control.

There are 187 potential days to earn service time in a season, and we've had an estimated 61 already (April plus May....I don't think Spring Training counts toward service time?).  If you subtract 61 from the 187, that means there are 126 days left to accrue service time this season, meaning in theory by my estimated calculations, he could've been called up 9 days ago has another 17 days to go to keep an extra year of control.

 

 

These are just estimates, and I know it's messy because of some uncertainty in the callups that I pointed out, and unknown if ST counts toward service time, but regardless, we should be pretty close, or have already passed the point where calling him up would give us an extra year of service time.  I may be off, but I'm trying to come up with a ballpark figure of when he could come up while retaining control.

 

Ng's comments, though, make it sound like they don't have much intention of calling him up anytime soon, BUT, we know there's always a line of "needs to work on X" even when service time is the real reason.

Edited by rmc523
corrected figures to reflect 2.7 days/1 day last season
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30 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

So I'm trying to do some math to figure out a service time estimate for him, and it's hard to figure out.

 

I have a few fairly certain date parameters, and others I'm not certain about.....I'll throw them out there to see what you guys think.

 

From this article, I found out

So basically, 16+ days off the ML/IL roster and they get an extra year of control - let's round it up to 20 for some leeway.

 

According to MLB.com, here's Jesus Sanchez's transaction history, with some notes I've added:

image.thumb.png.27299e422a50bb9d142345041be8b12b.png

 

 

I've calculated a "for sure" 15 days - he only appeared in 10 games last year, but was on the roster for 15 days: 12 from August 21, 2020 - September 1, 2020, and 3 more from September 28th, 2020 - September 30th, 2020 when he was optioned again.

Where it gets fuzzy for me is some other areas - the ? marks:

  • At the bottom, it shows he was recalled from NO in Sept. 30th of 2019, which was after their season ended - and he was then optioned down the following March of 2020 - it's not part of the season, but were any days accrued here?  Did Sept. 30th count on the roster?  Was there a day or two in Oct that counted?
  • At the top, there's a series of transactions starting with an "activation" of him Oct 9, 2020, but he had been reassigned to the minors before this, so I'm guessing it doesn't apply to the ML roster
  • Same goes for April of this year - April 1 - it has them putting him on the IL, but THEN on April 20th, assign him to the ATS on April 21st - he was assigned to AAA on May 1
  • As far as I understand ATS players do NOT get service time, but the April 1 to April 20 injury period has thrown me off.

 

So here's what we've got:

image.thumb.png.fccc93815db3d3658bc6d620df77082c.png

If there were 15 "for sure" days, plus guesses for potential additional time, let's say 22, which comes to 37 potential days on the roster already.

172 is a full year of service time, so I subtracted the potential total from that - I'm guesstimating he has to be on the roster less than 135 days to retain that extra year of control.

There are 187 potential days to earn service time in a season, and we've had an estimated 61 already (April plus May....I don't think Spring Training counts toward service time?).  If you subtract 61 from the 187, that means there are 126 days left to accrue service time this season, meaning in theory by my estimated calculations, he could've been called up 9 days ago without losing an extra year of control.

 

 

These are just estimates, and I know it's messy because of some uncertainty in the callups that I pointed out, and unknown if ST counts toward service time, but regardless, we should be pretty close, or have already passed the point where calling him up would give us an extra year of service time.  I may be off, but I'm trying to come up with a ballpark figure of when he could come up while retaining control.

 

Ng's comments, though, make it sound like they don't have much intention of calling him up anytime soon, BUT, we know there's always a line of "needs to work on X" even when service time is the real reason.

Now that's research! lol

Thanks for this. This is what I was trying to figure out in another post but I didn't know where to start, let alone figure out how to inquire on "service time" and all of that sort.

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On 5/20/2021 at 8:38 PM, Erick said:

Duvall’s been playing gold glove defense though. Like, really really good. Biggest surprise of the year to me is his defense.

And his speed — dude is quick! I didn’t expect any of that.

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6 hours ago, rmc523 said:

So I'm trying to do some math to figure out a service time estimate for him, and it's hard to figure out.

 

I have a few fairly certain date parameters, and others I'm not certain about.....I'll throw them out there to see what you guys think.

 

From this article, I found out

So basically, 16+ days off the ML/IL roster and they get an extra year of control - let's round it up to 20 for some leeway.

 

According to MLB.com, here's Jesus Sanchez's transaction history, with some notes I've added:

image.thumb.png.27299e422a50bb9d142345041be8b12b.png

 

 

I've calculated a "for sure" 15 days - he only appeared in 10 games last year, but was on the roster for 15 days: 12 from August 21, 2020 - September 1, 2020, and 3 more from September 28th, 2020 - September 30th, 2020 when he was optioned again.

Where it gets fuzzy for me is some other areas - the ? marks:

  • At the bottom, it shows he was recalled from NO in Sept. 30th of 2019, which was after their season ended - and he was then optioned down the following March of 2020 - it's not part of the season, but were any days accrued here?  Did Sept. 30th count on the roster?  Was there a day or two in Oct that counted?
  • At the top, there's a series of transactions starting with an "activation" of him Oct 9, 2020, but he had been reassigned to the minors before this, so I'm guessing it doesn't apply to the ML roster
  • Same goes for April of this year - April 1 - it has them putting him on the IL, but THEN on April 20th, assign him to the ATS on April 21st - he was assigned to AAA on May 1
  • As far as I understand ATS players do NOT get service time, but the April 1 to April 20 injury period has thrown me off.

 

So here's what we've got:

image.thumb.png.fccc93815db3d3658bc6d620df77082c.png

If there were 15 "for sure" days, plus guesses for potential additional time, let's say 22, which comes to 37 potential days on the roster already.

172 is a full year of service time, so I subtracted the potential total from that - I'm guesstimating he has to be on the roster less than 135 days to retain that extra year of control.

There are 187 potential days to earn service time in a season, and we've had an estimated 61 already (April plus May....I don't think Spring Training counts toward service time?).  If you subtract 61 from the 187, that means there are 126 days left to accrue service time this season, meaning in theory by my estimated calculations, he could've been called up 9 days ago without losing an extra year of control.

 

 

These are just estimates, and I know it's messy because of some uncertainty in the callups that I pointed out, and unknown if ST counts toward service time, but regardless, we should be pretty close, or have already passed the point where calling him up would give us an extra year of service time.  I may be off, but I'm trying to come up with a ballpark figure of when he could come up while retaining control.

 

Ng's comments, though, make it sound like they don't have much intention of calling him up anytime soon, BUT, we know there's always a line of "needs to work on X" even when service time is the real reason.

Tonight Show Wow GIF by The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon

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9 hours ago, QbanCastillo said:

Now that's research! lol

Thanks for this. This is what I was trying to figure out in another post but I didn't know where to start, let alone figure out how to inquire on "service time" and all of that sort.

 

Yeah I don't quite understand it fully either, but tried to get us a close idea!

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6 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

Yeah I don't quite understand it fully either, but tried to get us a close idea!

And whatever service time was accrued last year, did you multiply by 2.7?

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1 minute ago, Michael said:

So what you're saying is, we won't see him til August? 😭

 

Working on updating it - have to recreate the excel because it didn't save lol.

 

image.thumb.png.70514e15cd0f97302b57ffc1e794dcf6.png

 

With that updated calculation, that gives him 40.5 "for sure" days - so 41.

 

That gives us 17 MORE days until he could be called up for an extra year of service time - assuming the "maybe/guesses" are right.  So late June.

 

If the "maybes" are wrong/don't exist, we'd already be there/could see him soon.

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Last year wasnt a 1 for 1 in terms of service time though.  It was on some factor for each day.  Basically I think every day counted a 2.1 days of service time normally 'I think' 

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28 minutes ago, Das Texan said:

Last year wasnt a 1 for 1 in terms of service time though.  It was on some factor for each day.  Basically I think every day counted a 2.1 days of service time normally 'I think' 

2.7, which is what I mentioned, and what rmc just fixed in his numbers. 😁

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5 minutes ago, Michael said:

2.7, which is what I mentioned, and what rmc just fixed in his numbers. 😁

good.

So the whole year of service time isnt really an issue right now.  They wont save that year until something like July or August I'm guessing.

 

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