Stag5

Keep this in mind....Joe Girardi believes in "soft landings"...do ya think starting your first game in New York against the Yankees is a soft landing?

I didn't hear Uggla. I heard them say they spoke to Dontrelle yesterday and that he is one of the absolute best athletes they have spoken to. They praised him endlessly as fun to talk to and in to it. Then Greenie said something one would call a compliment but I truly hated....he said they need to keep this team together. He said he doesn't think they can contend this season but this team can play and they have to keep it together. Ummm...I too remember when he called the Marlins a AA team...an embrassment...a team that would be better off contracted. I hate the idea that he can glide from contraction to you have to keep this team together w/o saying "I was wrong."

I totally agree both need to go...but for right now Aguila at least does not make mental errors.

Josh Willingham - OF - Marlins Marlins activated outfielder Josh Willingham from the 15-day disabled list. Willingham, who had been out since June 6 with a left hand injury, will return as the Marlins' regular left fielder, leaving fewer at-bats available for Cody Ross and Joe Borchard. Jun. 21 - 10:58 pm et Chris Aguila - OF - Marlins Marlins optioned outfielder Chris Aguila to Triple-A Albuquerque. Aguila didn't have an at-bat since his recall before going 0-for-3 in the loss to the Orioles tonight. Jun. 21 - 10:56 pm et

If these guys are idiots and bums when they talk poorly about the Marlins or don't talk about them at all...why such excitement when they talk about the Marlins in a good way? Sorry, I just don't get it. Either what they said in the past was correct OR what they say now is information from idiots you shouldn't accept. Can't have it both ways.

This "I need confirmation for it to be real" generation kills me. Are the Marlins playing well? Today's Fan: Let me see what Jason Stark says. Wow! Was that a great play by Ross or what? Today's Fan: Lemme first see the web-gems and get back to ya. So you love this girl and want to marry her? Today's Fan: Ummm...I dunno...where do I go to find out? If someone told you that you were fat, ugly and a loser you'd probably write this person off and consider him a waste of time. But I wonder if some of you would have a need to keep returning to see if this person has changed their opinion. Who cares! What you think matters. Turn off ESPN if it bothers you. Lastly, stop acting like the ESPN big-wigs sit around the table brain storming tonight's show and the talk is about NOT showing the Marlins or a specific Marlin player. Utterly ridiculous. I don't know why I am always amazed at how few can see the forest for the trees. There's a reason the Marlins/MLB fan forum and the ESPN board and other are polluted with trolls spouting BS about the current state of affairs in South Florida. If I lived in New York or LA or Philadelphia or Arizona I'd be angry that one of my teams there hadn't signed Dontrelle Willis and Miguel Cabrera, or both, after all every paper in town has told me it was a done deal. The message being delivered (and it isn't about BBTN per se, you missed the point, it about the media generally, is the Marlins are the laughingstock of baseball. Even last night's win was tainted on Sportscenter (in this case) by wondering out loud how much the Marlins miss Mike Lowell or that they won in from of "dozens". And as hardcore fans we know the Marlins don't miss Mike Lowell and that there a many reasons why attendance is down, including the success of the Heat is sucking millions of sports entertainment dollar to the AAA right now, and some of those dollars would otherwise be spent on baseball. Lots of other reasons too, some clearly the fault of ownership/management, but others not. It isn't about me as a hardcore fan, or you, it is about the general perception created here in South Florida when Joe Average turns on Channel 10 and hears Jimmy Cefalo still calling the team the "Triple A Marlins" after winning 16 of 21 or Kevin Baxter or Juan Rodriguez damning the team with feint praise, even in victory. And on the national stage, like it or not, BBTN is the pre-eminent baseball program in the country, millions watch it each week and so what they say or don't say, what they show or don't show, affects the national thinking about this and every franchise Then there's the trickle down. The reason the Boston Globe opinied today that the reason Willis won't be moved is because "he's all that's left..." when in fact as fans we know he is far from the most successful pitcher, nevermind player on the Marlins in 2006 is because either a) they don't know better or b) they feel the team is fair game for ridicule. So poke fun at me all you want but know that the collective affect of all this is felt at the turnstiles. If you hear last night from your local news that the team stinks and you've been hearing that for months, and oh yeah they're moving too, to Vegas, Portland, San Antonio, wherever, why not disconnect from the team? Why bother to go or make any commitment to the team because everywhere you read, hear or see, some talking head is telling you it foolish to do so. ESPN generally, and BBTN specifically is indicative of something which has its roots here. As Jayson Stark told me once, national reporters in 2003 were calling Mike Berardino morning, noon and night for insights into what was happening here without knowing he was on a jihad against the team for shutting him out of the Torborg firing. That's why you had so many "Marlins will be sellers..." stories running at trade deadline time that year. Berardino was feeding it all accross the country and evennational reporters didn't know better. This is a very complex issue with ramifications that will last for years. Laugh at it all you want, but when BBTN doesn't cover a game they otherwise would (Toronto being a game out in the AL East before last night's game), whether you like it or not, it does have an affect. Great points and I don't disagree with anything you said. But what is your goal, my goal, our goal? We want to have a fun team, a winning team and enjoy our team. We can't get caught up in perception unless we are attempting to do something about it. Perception will change...you think Braves fans think we are a AA team? What if we take 2 of 3 from the Jays? You think many fans of the NL West teams think we are a joke? We are not even 1/2 way through our first season post-re-org of the roster. Many still don't believe in the Tigers. Most didn't realize they were doing so well until the start of June. It takes time....the perception of the Marlins is that we lost our players...and we did. In time fans all over will see Hanley is better than most SS. They will see that Uggla was a freebee beyond explanation. They will see that Nolasco, Pinto and Mitre may go down as a better deal than when we acquired Willis. They will see that our pen of rookies is better than what we had even in 2003 (granted these boys have yet toface real pressure.) Give it time...and don't worry about what some silly reporter thinks.

This "I need confirmation for it to be real" generation kills me. Are the Marlins playing well? Today's Fan: Let me see what Jason Stark says. Wow! Was that a great play by Ross or what? Today's Fan: Lemme first see the web-gems and get back to ya. So you love this girl and want to marry her? Today's Fan: Ummm...I dunno...where do I go to find out? If someone told you that you were fat, ugly and a loser you'd probably write this person off and consider him a waste of time. But I wonder if some of you would have a need to keep returning to see if this person has changed their opinion. Who cares! What you think matters. Turn off ESPN if it bothers you. Lastly, stop acting like the ESPN big-wigs sit around the table brain storming tonight's show and the talk is about NOT showing the Marlins or a specific Marlin player. Utterly ridiculous.

2B Uggla - I am fine with Hanley staying at the top SS Ramirez - Batting # 2 may relieve some presure. RF Hermida - Let's get Jeremy some pitches to hit. 3B Cabrera 1B Jacobs - He is hot sure but he is not a # 3 hitter. LF Ross - We have started to see what management saw in him. CA Olivo CF Amezaga - I always like a good batting eye ahead of the pitcher. That being said our current lineup has won 14 of 20 games....so is there really a need for change?

What?!?! We have a low payroll? Why wasn't I informed of this? Thank goodness this writer has brought me up to speed. Seriously I would have enjoyed the article more if the words firesale and contraction were sprinkled in.

Sunday: Like I said yesterday....I'd like to give Uggla a day off with a HOT Amezaga at 2B. Having won the first 2 of a 3 game series this is also a good day to test Joe Borchard at first base who also is coming off a solid game. SS Hanley 2B Amezaga LF Hermida 3B Cabrera (4-6 lifetime against Jennings) 1B Borchard LF Willingham CF Abercrombie CA Treanor

SS Hanley 2B Amezega (2-3 vs Kim) CF Hermida 3B Cabrera 1B Jacobs LF Willingham RF Borchard CA Olivo Kim is tough against righties so this is a great opportunity to get Borchard and Amezaga in a game. Uggla is also due a game off.

http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/...ve.jsp?c_id=fla Why not Herges?? :banghead :banghead :banghead :thumbdown All I can think of is that they need two pitchers that will serve as long relief(Pettit) and/or mop up(Herges). What role would German or Wellemyer have had on this team now? The closer is Borowski. The setup men for the 7th and 8th are Kensing, Messenger and Martinez. The LH specialist is Tankersly. Where would German and Welly pitch? I still can't agree with keeping Herges, HE IS TERRIBLE I agree...I had to stretch to find a reason

Wellemyer has good stuff but has got to learn than if you go down 2-0 on every batter, ya dead unless your name is Pedro or Peavy, etc. Then again, they don't get down 2-0 on every batter

http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/...ve.jsp?c_id=fla Why not Herges?? :banghead :banghead :banghead :thumbdown All I can think of is that they need two pitchers that will serve as long relief(Pettit) and/or mop up(Herges). What role would German or Wellemyer have had on this team now? The closer is Borowski. The setup men for the 7th and 8th are Kensing, Messenger and Martinez. The LH specialist is Tankersly. Where would German and Welly pitch?

http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/...ve.jsp?c_id=fla

My call is... Closer: Borowski Setup: Kensing 7th: Messenger 6th/7th: Martinez (Herges' old role) LH Specialist: Tankersly Long Relief: Herges Long Relief: Pettit I do not think Martinez should simply slide into the setup role. Kensing has earned the setup role. Messenger has earned the 7th inning. See how Joe Girardi sticks by the players he decides are it I assume Martinez is now splitting time with Messenger and Kensing. The more I think about German...what would his role be if he stayed on the team? I think Kensing and Messenger are here to stay. Borowski is the closer. Martinez will get a prime spot. Tank is here for lefties at the very least. The final two spots we need pitchers that can throw innings...Pettit. WHy is Herges still here? I don't know but maybe they feel he is more willing to assume the role of long relief and whatever is required than German.

I respect your opinion...you definitly have a point....but what will ya say when Willis is having TJ surgery next season or 2008? Where the hell do you get that? His motion has been toned down so much it's barely effective anymore and he's yet to miss a start. TSwift, my point is that a pitchers value is far more short term than long term. That goes for any pitcher. Marlins pitchers have had a history of arm problems....Wilis has thrown many innings...if you think he will be different than AJ, Pavano, Dempster, etc...I hope ya right.

I don't believe Beinfest ever said that. I certainly could be wrong but all I remember was hearing Loria say that Willis and Cabrera were like fine pieces of art and you don't get rid of that. TheDon...we have past the point of being worried about how it looks. We have a new team that looks like it might be very competitive. Having an overworked pitcher coming from an organization that has a history of blown out arms/arm problems...the smart move is to see how we can turn Willis into MORE than Willis. It's all about the name on the front of the jersey, not the back. Don't believe it? We love Uggla...we miss Luis but Luis who? Oh Alex and that big HR in 2003...seee...we love Hanley. Speaking of which what would you rather have right now? Willis, Moehler, Beckett, AJ, Valdez Willis, Moehler, Johnson, Olsen, Nolasco I respect your opinion...you definitly have a point....but what will ya say when Willis is having TJ surgery next season or 2008?

Holly, I ask myself this question...When will we be ready to win? 2 years? 3 years? I know we can be competitive, but I mean win the division or wildcard. This includes to ability and willingness of Loria to add payroll when it's needed down the stretch. Then I say these words...Brad Penny...AJ Burnett....Carl Pavano. Then I look at Dontrelle's mechanics and herky jerky motion. I think moving Dontrelle (as much as I love him and he IS the face of the Marlins) is a smart move especially for what he can bring. If we can solidify CF, CA, 1B and even more arms for the upcoming seasons I think we have to do it.

I'd either give it to the Ruth family to do with as they please (since Bonds refers to Babe as the fat white man...tho WE are all racists, right Barry?) Or, I would find the bar in Chicago that blew up the Bartman ball and join forces with them this time to deal with this history as it should be dealt with....destroying it!

Olsen struggles. Olsen gets into fight. Olsen pisses off the ump and gets 7 warm ups instead of 8. Olsen then cannot concentrate and gives up a HR. Olsen is then pulled to the side from Joe G. Olsen sounds like the perfect candidate to be sent to the pen or the minors to give him some time to get his head where it needs to be. Pettit has thrown very well and deserves a shot at a start.

I guess this would be radical, but maybe we can start Helms versus LH pitchers? Jacobs is batting .132 versus LH pitchers this season and Helms is 4-8 with 1 HR lifetime versus Glavine.

Girardi said right-hander Franklyn German (right shoulder) would pitch at Class A Jupiter on Saturday and Sunday, and RHP Carlos Martinez (right elbow sprain) would also do so on Saturday. Beinfest said both pitchers were "close" to returning to the Marlins. So who goes....Pinto and Herges, Pettit or Wellemyer? The consensus here would be Herges but is Joe and Beinfest sticking with the veteran? Will it be Pettit who needs to pitch more innings than he is now? Or will it be Wellemyer who needs to be forced into throwing strikes and to trust his own stuff to do so?

Marlins transferred RHP Sergio Mitre from the 15-day to the 60-day disabled list. At last check, Mitre, who has been out since May 12 with shoulder tendinitis, was about ready to resume throwing, suggesting a mid-June return was possible. Now he'll be sidelined until the All-Star beeak. May. 26 - 6:54 pm et

Any word yet on who was/will be sent down for tonight's game?