musk

Alex Gonzalez has the best glove in the National League period. The only guy who may be on the same level defensively is andruw Jones. We have been spoiled with Renteria and Gonzalez at shortstop over the past 8 years. If we lost Alex this team drops by a significant amout defensively. 864802[/snapback] If alex was the best glove in the national league at SS then the managers would have elected him to the all-star game. That simple. Alex is a GOOD glove in the NL but not the best (and no im not using All Star selection for my reasoning it was just an example). You can't forget about furcal and Iztures which are the only ones that come to my head right now. Furcal has EXCELLENT range and an arm that will blow alex's arm away.(as you can tell im a Furcal fan). Now before you are like "oh well furcal didn't make it to the all star game". I know this already. But Furcal has been regarded as one of the better defensive SS in the game for a couple of years now. bottom line: Alex is good, but not the "best".

I dont know the validity of these rumors....BUT The Cards are known to trade for established Major League talent (walker last year around this time). Since walker is basicly a spot starter now and LaRussa doesn't want Taguchi as an everyday player because he has exposable holes in his swing, I can see them going for Encarnacion. He would fit decently in their lineup. The only thing I don't know about is if Enc is a Larussa type player. Larussa likes players who play their role in the team and don't try to push their own agenda. I can see Enc as one of those players who will be stuborn and not play the role that larussa will give him (possibly someone in the second spot that needs to get on base but still has some pop to the bat). And Enc, I feel, is an easy out at the plate. Also, there is a lot of vertan leadership and the nucleus of that team has been together for a couple of years. You never hear any of those players complaining about bench duties and so forth (as enc did earlier this year). But who knows. I'd say if the cards REALLY needed a RF this year Enc could be their 2nd or 3rd choice depending on whats available.

Furcal. If we can get him for the same price gonzo is asking Furcal is the best. But I doubt ATL will let him go. and i can't think of any other standout ss so resign him for cheap. if he wants to try to milk you for cash let him go.

strip club...at a SCHOOL? How can I join that school? 864728[/snapback] its off campus. i havent been there but i have seen their "products" and i have to say im very please. haha.

I'm used to losing these games. Infact, I expect to lose these game everynight. It's not heartbreaking anymore, it's like any other game. It just shows how sad watching this team has become. Always expecting to lose a tight game. 864671[/snapback] hah, I'm the same way. Once we get behind (because god forbid we actully have a lead in the game) I usually just laugh and switch the channel because I know we're going to lose. I check back periodicly to see our deficit increase and laugh some more and then change the channel again. Its sad but thats what it has come to. Expecting a loss and left conmfused with a win.

hah. i thought you'd like to know that your screenname is the same name as a strip club at my school. The Silver Bullet(aka: Warewolf Killer)

kinda looks like Lieter numbers (except for the K's and scoreless innings). But i'll be happy when he's back.

yeah, and the Astros also got Carlos Beltran and Roger Clemens. Who do we have? Dontrell Willis and Miguel Cabrera. Although good talents nothing compared to what Beltran did at the end of last season and what Clemens has done for the past decade and a half. Not to mention the astros got to beat up on the brewers pirates reds and cubs. Where as the philies, braves and nationals beat up on us. how we won 2 of 3 in NY eludes me. Oh yeah, and one more important thing....the Astros started the season i think 10 games BELOW .500. So the fact that they are 1 game over .500 at this time means one thing (dont hurt your brain on this one)........THEY WERE ALREADY GETTING HOT. You see, they started their hot streak BEFORE the ASG and they still werent in the mix of the WC until close to the end of the season. We are getting cold, colder than cold. You dont lose like this AFTER the ASG and say to yourselves "we can turn it around in the second half". Plus, the Astros were once again regaining some momentum before the ASG (relative to how they started)> Oh yeah, and last i checked our name wasn't the Huston Astros.

You all can lose faith if you want, but I'm not giving up on this team yet. I still feel that this team is a trade or two away from going on a hot streak and we are still very much in it. 864592[/snapback] this "hot streak" you speak of is going to have to be of the .600 baseball variety and that still might not even do it. And you're telling me that getting maybe 1 everyday player and maybe a couple of arms in the bullpen is going to all of the sudden turn a sub .500 team into a .600+ team from this point on? This team's problems go deeper than just on the field performance. Why can't you see that? The fact that there is no leadership, no mangerial control, and trade rumors and firing rumors swirling ever since they lost their first game doesn't help the clubhouse atmosphere. And this is where you say "well thats why we should fire jack". So not only are you suggesting trades (and they will have to be of substantial magnitude to produce the outcome you are looking for) but you are also suggesting fiiring a manager. Those are some DRASTIC changes to be made in July when most teams that are winning have a healthy chemistry established.

You know whats funny. We've won our last 2 extra inning games on the bat of Enc. We were bound to lose one sooner or later. The problem is is that we are in too many extra inning games lately.

There are more "if"s on this forum than there are Lees in a chinese phonebook. You can say "if" all you want. That isn't going to change what IS happening

I think Lowell should be traded. Heres why: Throwout this poor season and yes, his on the field performance is spectacular. However, he is eating up a lot of salary and he does not offer ANY clubhouse leadership. Give me a guy that will hit .270 and 15 HR and is the leader in the clubhouse and I will take him over Lowell's barely .300 with 25-30 HRs. The one negative that we have with such young talent is the lack of leadership in the clubhouse. I would love to hear stories in the herald about Lowell being a leader regardless of his on the field stats. He still anchors that defense and he still has had 4 extreamly good years before this one. I love this guy. He is what made me excited about the Marlins. And I will be estatic if we don't trade him. But if we do, I will understand why. And above is the reason I will use to cope with it.

i wont be satisfied to throw in the towel until we complete the trades we are going to make and let things fall into place. im looking at the next nats home series against the marlins as a deciding point for me. i really think they can kick it into gear by then. 864549[/snapback] that type of optimism is warrented (the type that waits to see where we stand after trades). I have thought about waiting until the trades are done and see what we get out of it. And I KNOW we have one of the smartest GM's in all of baseball (Peter Gammons loves him). But I think the trades will focus more on future baseball rather than right now (see: trading an arm this year compared to when we wouldnt trade pavano last year). And thats why I can't rest my optimism on the trade deadline. But that's just me. My faith is lost but if we do make something out of this season I will be THE FIRST to admit that I was wrong to lose faith. I garuntee that.

HAHAHA. WOW. I posted something last week titled "We Suck" and people were about to hunt me down and murder my family. Now we post "We Suck" and everyone agrees. Amazing how quickly we turn. Anyways, McKeon has lost the clubhouse. He lost it during our first chunk of loses. And he definitely lost it when he berated Mota on the mound in Washington. But that isn't the biggest problem..... The BIGGEST problem is that the clubhouse HAS no LEADERS. Like Darren Daulton was in 1997. You would think Lowell (yeah, his performance doesn't show "leadership" but hes a vet on this team and thats what matters) or LoDuca would take the lead. So mix the lack of leadership w/ the lack of managerial control of the clubhouse and bake at 350 for 3 months and WA-LA you have your 2005 Florida Marlins.

The tide is turning on this forum. The "yes we can do it this season" are turning into "maybe we should start looking towards next season". Yes, I know that there is still a lot of baseball left to be played. This fact alone is what drives the blind optomism in this forum. But I can see the degredation of a positive 2005 outlook for this team in many posts around this forum. And thats OK. Now I've been burned at the stake many times for posting negative thoughts. And before you start saying "You only post negative things after loses" go search up my posts and see when I've made my posts. I never used to be such a pesamist. Before the Atlanta homestand I was starting to lose faith. Especially since we were humiliated the first two games of that series. Then we won the 3rd game in extras and I really thought that would turn the team around. Boy was I wrong. After the Mets series is when things started going downhill and that was when my faith had been totally vanquished by the Marlins. I still watch the games and I still go to the games (before anyone uses that famous "bandwaggon" or "fairweather" fan) but there just is no more excietment. The games mean little to me because I know that even though the NL East owns the top WC spots that the NL central has teams that are begining to bust out. I know that when Atlanta gets fuly healthy they will win the division leaving the Nationals pretty strong in the WC standings. And even if they don't win the WC you have to look at the Astros and the Cubs. Trade Burnett? Yes, for young cheap talent that we can resign for a multi-year deal. Trade Lowell? As MUCH as it kills me, yes if we can somehow use that salary towards a stadium or some more consistent talent that can produce in both halves of the season. Trade Beckett? Yes. He is possibly the most inconsistent pitcher on the staff but we still have him for 2 more years so lets see. This team is done in '05 but still have a good nucleus to turn it around in '06. There is no shame in putting a fork in this season. It doesn't make you less of a fan. If someone called me a "fairweather" fan after i proclaimed the Dolphins season over after losing 5 straight I would have punched them in the face. Just because you are a realist doesn't mean you're any less of a fan. Sometimes realism is more important than blind faith. Agreements and death threats welcome.

tell me how THIS game is heartbreaking? the team went down 7-4 and got lit up in the middle of the game. thye never had the lead. yeah, so what, they got their late runs and tied up the game but they've done that plenty of times. its funny how this team scores runs only after their pitching gives up a ton. now if we had played with a lead then lost the game THEN it would have been heartbreaking. you had to be expecting this after phily and the cubs dismantled us. heartbreaking? I would say "just about right" with regards to how this team has been playing all season.

6 games against the braves, what is our record against a 100% healthy braves team? What is our record so far? if we were at least 5 games above .500 i would say that this team shouldnt be a seller. but when you have a pitcher who is entering FA and you can get a lot for him go for it. If the front office thought this season had a chance to go into october they wouldn't get rid of burnett. its that simple. yeah, i know that 85% of the fans on this forum are optimists (thats what is great about sports). but 16 games against division leaders isnt going to do that much. at this point RIGHT NOW we would have to win all 10 games against the Nats. Look, this team has been more than underachieving for the past 90(?) games. Who is to say that for the last 70 they are all of the sudden going to play .600 baseball (which they will need to to get into the playoffs). Look at their record in the past 10 games. Will it take until the end of the month for the tone of this forum to change from "we can turn it around" to "can't wait until next season"?

Don't worry about a fan base. The team has to be successfull for at least 5-6 consecutive years to start establishing a good fan base. Playoff runs, good play, living up to expectations, etc. This is important for the less obvious reasons. The better the team plays the more they are on sports talk radio. Instead of listening to heat and dolphins news you would hear about the Marlins victory last night. I think fan base rests more on the South Florida media than just dumping salary. And they aren't dumping salary. You forget that we still have Carlos Delgado and the team has made obvious attempts to spend within their limits to produce a better ball club. We aren't the royals, devil rays, or rockies. We will spend if need be. What you will have to look out for in terms of long term success is that Willis and Beckett will be FA soon (3 years?). I can see Willis accepting less money to stay here (if we have a stadium) but I can see Beckett having a breakout season his FA year and asking for a boat load of money. Stadium deal, stability in the fo, consecutive success (at least in the wild card or divison hunt every year), and getting the attention of the media is what will make the marlins' fan base grow. This is not "salary dumping" this is being a smart FO and thinking of managing the payroll and being long term contending.

Yep, 100% right. 4-2 is a MUST. I have already written this team off by losing 5 of 7 @ home against sub .500 teams (look at my other posts). So it's not like this week is going to make or break my faith because my faith has already been broken. The FO is selling. Look at the AJ deal. If we were 10 games over .500 or tied for 2nd place in the division or fighting for first then there would be no AJ trade rumors. Simple as that. The FO is looking for the future because keeping AJ would be best for the present and they are not doing that. Basicly this team would require to be touched by the hand of God in order to make it to the playoffs let alone win the divison. And I think we all know God is a Boston Red Sox fan (as of recently).

If Orioels get Burnett they can say hello to the playoffs. As long as the Marlins get some good young talent that they can sign for 3 or 4 years I'm happy. This team isn't going anywhere this year. It's time to build for the future....again. PS: Don't think that this trade is going to help us out for "this year". If the front office thought they had a chance at "this year" they wouldn't be trading AJ. Look at Pavano last year. They could have gotten just as much for him but held on to him because they thought they could make a playoff run and they weren't playing this bad last year.

I've been somewhat hesitant all season about firing McKeon. But I'm going to go on the record as saying if this firing does send the club into the post season (which I still don't think it will), I will admit to the world that I was wrong. And you all may bash me w/ metal bats in October (read my other posts). Side note: In order for the Marlins to be taken seriously in the world of baseball they need stability in the front office and in the manager position. Can we please get a manager that will stick around for more than a couple of years? Like a La Russa or a Torre or a Cox? This is the National League people. We need an aggresive manager that won't be afraid to call the hit and run and play some bean ball.

Alright, he had a bad start and hasn't earned as many wins as he deserves, but i think this kid could be a perm. starter. I like him. If he bounces back from that hard outting and pitches a gem his next start I may LOVE him.

3-7 in the last 10 leading up to and after the all-star break. mind you 5 of those losses came to teams that were sub .500 at the time. When is this team going to have that "push" that every is talking about? You usually expect to see improvement leading up to the ASG and continuting afterwards. 3-7 (soon to be 3-8) dont look like a playoff push to me. "Can do it" and "Are doing it" are 2 totally different things. Most teams "can do" what it takes to get to the playoffs. But only a few "are doing" what it takes to get to the playoffs and these teams have been doing it leading up to the ASG and are still doing it after the ASG. I'm not being a pessamist. I'm being a realist.

i just saw it already posted. i guess the story was on mlb.com the whole time.

just announced during the yanks bosox game today. HELL YEAH! hes prob starting tmw night the guys on fox said. anyone know if they took all of his salary and what we got in return?