anotherrealfan

A player like Cabrera only comes around once in a blue moon and it may only happen to a franchise once or twice in their entire existence. You do NOT let a player like Cabrera dangle out there You do if you are Loria and Co. and are way in over your head because you want to be a sports owner and let him get more and more expensive to the point that you know you are no longer going to be able to afford him. You sign him long term now and worry about the rest latter. If this owner ship was willing to give Delgado all of that money just a few years ago, Really doesnt look like they were ever going to give Delgado all that money-that contract clearly indicated the intentions. why can't they do it for Cabrera? Why because Jeff isn't going to break the bank till he gets what he wants?? Jeff has what he wants-he is making money, wont have to repay the loan, has an appreciating asset and does not have to get in front on the public. He has mini me to do it for him. (OK, I am somewhat computer literate, but cant always figure out how to split up quotes-so apologies in advance if the above is mixed up)

The rebates are not for teams, they are for the facilities that have leases with them. Wayne will still receive the rebate after the lease expires-correct? And also, he has made it very clear on numerous occasions, except for his own self indulging purposes at the last minute at last year legislative session, that he would be happier if the Marlins left. The right to the payment was too open ended previously and I would have to assume that those loopholes will be closed.

This just keeps annoying me. Marlins stadium bills show promise Palm Beach Post Capital Bureau In years past, the Marlins - who already technically received a $2 million annual tax break - have walked away empty-handed after lawmakers or Gov. Jeb Bush refused to grant them a second "rebate." The teams are granted the tax break if they can demonstrate they can bring in at least that amount in sales tax each year, but once they prove it's possible they don't have to actually generate that much in taxes each year. The Marlins' previous owner, Wayne Huizenga, was granted a $60 million, 30-year tax subsidy in 1994 to retrofit the Dolphin Stadium for baseball. The subsidy, which officially was for the Marlins, stayed with the stadium when Huizenga sold the team, but some lawmakers have balked at giving the team money for another stadium. Sooooo... First the Marlins get the rebate... Sort-of. Then, they contradict this tidbit in the very next paragraph. SO WHO THE HECK RECIEVED THE REBATE THEN!!! I understand that the rebate back in 94 was meant to go to the Marlins, but clearly this isn't the case. Since First, it was Granted to Wayne and the Stadium. and was kept with the Stadium when the team was sold. It just Irks me when opponents to this keep saying the Marlins are asking for seconds, WHEN THEY AREN'T!! AAARGH!!! If i'm wrong, please correct me :confused Wayne is receiving the rebate and continues to get the check. Sounds absurd, but that is the way it was. Wayne owns the stadium and it went for stadium improvements-which while there have been, it has been more for Wayne to increase the value of the stadium for football and super bowls. Seems logical it should stay with the team it was designed for, especially since after Wayne sold the Fish,he always expressed that he would be happier if the Marlins left. The new bills have penalties if the team leaves the area, depending on the bill sponsor. I do not know for sure, there are people on this board who are very knowledgeable on the subject, but I believe that even if the Marlins get the rebate approved for a new stadium, Wayne still gets his for many more years-and that sure is absurd.

One would hope that after all the years of planning etc, that it would be unthinkable that the plans would not be in place in a timely manner. Granted, each location has specific issues that need to be resolved, and some of these are not insignificant-yet the main body of the plan of action should be already well conceived. I would like to believe that 80% of any stadium plan has already been determined and the 20% remaining is what the parties need to roll up their sleeves for.

NICE!! Just got a new LCD with HD... Cant wait to see the Fish in HD.. Thanks for the heads up Cape! Its great, you will love it. And once u have seen it on HD, any game that is not HD will piss you off.

Last year his fastball has been known to be straight and narrow. Which could be a problem if he doesnt keep developing some movement on it. No matter how fast it is, if it is straight as a board that is sorta a problem. If he can get movement on it though and keep good control of the slider I dont have a problem with him in the upper parts of the bullpen. Exactly, the knock is that there is not enough movement. He also needs to get past his quote in the Herald today "If it [closer role] does happen, hopefully I can do the job but I am just concerned about making the team first". So, he is a long way from being annointed the closer.

Attitude gets you nowhere at the top level if you do not have the ability to back it up. Scotty believes in himself and his teammates, and with the ability this team, I believe, can really back it up.

I sure wish Samson would stop being given air time. With the start of ST, Capozzi has nothing better to write about than to massage Samson's ego, which the little pervert loves more than anything.

It implys that PBC relys on Miami for work and commerce, and that it was founded and grew because of Miami, which is definetly very wrong in every aspect. Well, actually, study the history of growth and commerce in S. Florida. While it is true that PBC no longer relies on Miami, the growth of S. Florida was a result of Miami. Broward and Palm Beach did not just pop up with industry if Dade was not first developed and became a major economic base, unless you consider strip center upon strip center commerce. There has been an evolution here, like anywhere else and the big bang theory is not correct. Now, I know the denial by many people who never set foot in Dade, and I know you do, at least as far as Ives Dairy Rd and 27th Ave, is part of the bias against the cultural makeup of Dade County. Don't fear it, it is actually quite unique and while it feels different than PBC, embrace cultural differences. Actually check out your history. It's the other way around. Right from the beginning of Miami (previously known as Fort Dallas until a young widow from Cleveland and a hotelier/railroad magnet (ex oil executive) in Palm Beach changed it). Miami ended up growing faster in population but for many other diferent reasons than the one you try to convince us of. I have a fear/bias of a cultural make up? LOL That's even funnier. Next you will be telling me you actually believe Ponce deLeon was looking for the Fountain of Youth. Stick around and maybe learn something. Lets see, so you say Miami growth was not ahead of Palm Beach, even though you do say that, just not for the reasons I am trying to convince you of. Not really trying to convince anyone of anything. Therefore, the reason for PBC was really a result of Cleveland, not Miami, because the money started there along with the oil exec who really only lived here in the winter. Bob, doesn't really matter-and apologies for assuming any bias-really. If I end up fighting people on this board, then it will stop being fun. Some of the displays of acrimony are excessive. Anyway, Juan Ponce de Leon (1460?-1521) was a Spanish explorer and soldier who was the first European to set foot in Florida. He also established the oldest European settlement in Puerto Rico and discovered the Gulf Stream (a current in the Atlantic Ocean). Ponce de Leon was searching for the legendary fountain of youth and other riches. See you at the games.

I think you are wildly over-exaggerating. Like Miguel is the first superstar to go to arbitration. No, just the first one that has the FO ready to wage a public relations war over such an insignificant amount of money. I heard on ESPN radio 790 that Cabs is asking to be traded. Has anyone else heard anything about this? That would be interesting-nothing, in my opinion, would make the FO happier than trading Cabs and being able to blame it on him. What I want is the stadium deal, thus saving our Marlins, then once that is done, get rid of this ownership group. Hey, I can dream. You can take their side regarding the economics of this team, but why is that related to being public morons (like Samson) and being an embarassment. They are mutually exclusive. You can be a tightwad, or even justifiably cheap without acting like a public clown. Integrity, class-it really is not that difficult.

It implys that PBC relys on Miami for work and commerce, and that it was founded and grew because of Miami, which is definetly very wrong in every aspect. Well, actually, study the history of growth and commerce in S. Florida. While it is true that PBC no longer relies on Miami, the growth of S. Florida was a result of Miami. Broward and Palm Beach did not just pop up with industry if Dade was not first developed and became a major economic base, unless you consider strip center upon strip center commerce. There has been an evolution here, like anywhere else and the big bang theory is not correct. Now, I know the denial by many people who never set foot in Dade, and I know you do, at least as far as Ives Dairy Rd and 27th Ave, is part of the bias against the cultural makeup of Dade County. Don't fear it, it is actually quite unique and while it feels different than PBC, embrace cultural differences. Palm Beach has Miami to thank as far as Miami was the place the 1920s land boom started, but not much more than that. And the time it took to flip some property back then would make modern investors' heads spin. But that flipping of property back in the 20s wasn't limited to Miami. They were doing it in West Palm Beach as well. As far relying on Miami industry, West Palm originally grew more as a place where those who support the rich living on the island could live and work. To bring this back to the subject somewhat, it amazes me that Samson is allowed to continue to occupy a position of importance in this organization. Wherever he goes, he generates feelings of ill will in everyone from fans to politicians. Samson is probably the best living example of why nepotism is bad business practice. I accept your Pbc and Miami explanation. Nepotism is given a bad name because of Samson. It was so quiet for awhile. MLB appears to have taken over stadium matters and shoved Samson far in the background. Then, bam, just as all of us start getting excited about stadium reports, spring training starting, optimism about our young team, Samson escapes and negativism starts anew. There must be a way to stop him, stifle him and banish him to some island far far away, and please KEEP HIM AWAY FROM TALLAHASSEE. I wish Senator Lee would have swallowed him whole.

It implys that PBC relys on Miami for work and commerce, and that it was founded and grew because of Miami, which is definetly very wrong in every aspect. Well, actually, study the history of growth and commerce in S. Florida. While it is true that PBC no longer relies on Miami, the growth of S. Florida was a result of Miami. Broward and Palm Beach did not just pop up with industry if Dade was not first developed and became a major economic base, unless you consider strip center upon strip center commerce. There has been an evolution here, like anywhere else and the big bang theory is not correct. Now, I know the denial by many people who never set foot in Dade, and I know you do, at least as far as Ives Dairy Rd and 27th Ave, is part of the bias against the cultural makeup of Dade County. Don't fear it, it is actually quite unique and while it feels different than PBC, embrace cultural differences.

I am not the least bit suprised even with a new stadium and new sources of revenue this ownership group does not have the financial resources to compete at the top level . I think the best we can hope for is the type of payroll we had in 04 and 05 middle of the road , bottom third , what disturbs me is not that we wont ever being going after top free agents , it is that we cant even afford the top players we do develope ....very disappointing and yes Samson should be fired because the has no business sense we are trying to get a new stadium and the little man is there to remind us that nothing will change even with a stadium guarantee. The best we can hope for is for Loria to sell the team after the a few years in the new stadium It was only a matter of time before the spin started with Loria and Samson, twisting and contorting as to why they will still be cheap, regardless of the stadium, and regardless if every game is sold out. Your last sentence above is correct-"the best we can hope for...." and until then it will be HOPE FOR THE BEST.

Direct result of the Marlins paying part of their contribution for construction. Pro Player and the ownership group has only so much revenue to draw from. But as we all know as Marlins fans, a low payroll does not necessarily mean a team that's not competitive or worth watching. As we should really know as Marlins fans, such teams can be World Series champions in short time when the resources are available to support them. And if I might say to those who are annoyed by this news at all need to get their priorities straight. The first step the Marlins must make is a stadium that is profitable and ensures the team will have a home. Everything else the club can do must follow that. Darn right, I am completely at the point that I want comfort in the assurance that we will have a team. The size of the payroll is unimportant at this point-just the guarantee of keeping the Marlins for a long, long time is all I hope for at this time. THEN....... we can all conspire as to how to get better ownership and muzzle little pervert stepson.

There are, of course, many different ways to look at this. For the constant attempt to equate sports teams and the impact on a community with, for example, other businesses, it just does not work. When the state and municipalities spend millions on other facilities, be it a more worthy educational venue, such as a library, then we are all on board. Yet how many of us still go to the library to check out books and research. It benefits so few, yet no one would argue against it-almost anti american to do so. Yet, are there any library message boards for library fans to chat? Do you buy library t shirts and hats and get sick over library matters, as you might do when watching Randy Messenger give up a HR in a key situation. What about the pride and joy you have when the Marlins win the world series-very uplifting. These analogies work with other businesses and the millionaire owners. The fact that baseball is a business is overshadowed by the value and the aspect that, as fans, we ultimately watch the game and see it as a sport and a major component of our community. By helping keep a franchise, you are not helping a millionaire owner (and his pervert stepson) you are helping a community keep, what other communities around the country recognize, a part of the fabric of the community. All you need to do is look at the cost to other communities who have let their teams leave and how much they paid to get a new team, once is became evident what was lost. Ask the city of Baltimore, Houston (who not only paid big bucks to get a new NFL franchise) but realized they better do something or they would lose the Astros, ask Cleveland. A new stadium is for the community, even the majority who do not go to games, just as much as a library is, trees in the medians, a performing arts center and on and on. You may argue against the use of public money for these venues but when any one of you go to another city that has modern, beautiful new facilities, you come back and home and rave about how beautiful that other city is. You do not thing about that new facility as helping a millionaire-you equate it to the city you visited. WELL, S. Florida has even more reason to have the facilities than other places, given that we are the destination of millions of visitors. Just look around this weekend-think about all the people from all over the world visiting-think about all the public money spent on all the things that go into a community that can host an event like this-and then I could argue how much better that money would have been spent if it went into schools, lowering insurance, property taxes, police protections etc. It is all part of the balance of living, working and playing in a major league city-versus some Podunk wanna be. Thank you my fellow citizens.

The most encouraging part fo the article is Mr. Burgess' overflowing optimism. This man is in the middle of the negotiations and statements like "the stars, I think, have really lined up" and "to say we're close is the mother of all understatements" are music to my ears. Some sort of deal will probably be anounced soon so that it can be presented to the lesgilature when the regular session begins. couldn't agree more. Burgess has been quite for most part, and in the past he has been conservative with his comentary. So these comments are music to my ears as well! If we ever get this thing built, Burgess deserves a ton of credit. and MLB deserves credit, for continuing to believe in the area and for SHOVING Loria and pervert out of the way.

You're good at saying nothing. Your position 95% of the time is that there are many factors at play, some known and some unknown, and people make conclusions based on their own reasoning and needs. No sh*t Sherlock. Yet the last point is lost on nearly everyone here, so I'll keep preaching. LOL Not everybody. The negotiations may have come to a standstill over something trivial. The language of the contract. Bonus money. Whatever. And it seems apparent that neither side wanted to budge anymore than they already have. First reports were the Marlins offered $5.5 mil. Now it is up to 6.7 mil. That's a big concession to a team that is strapped for cash at a time when they think securing the long term health of the franchise in South Florida is far more important than putting a player on the field so 14K people can watch him. We don't even know if Cabs side did any negotiating with the salary or just said, "This is what we want. Give it to us or else." DTrain was hugely praised on this board for not going to arbitration and accepting what was offered at the last moment. And yet the Marlins are being bashed for not giving into Miggy's camp and giving him everything he wants. Seems rather two faced to me. Especially on something as trivial as arbitration. Going to be interesting to see how it ends up and then read the comments that come out of the doomsday prognosticators. Maybe they were "strapped for cash" with a 65 mill. payroll. Based on many accounts, taking the overall payroll last year and this year, are they really "strapped for cash"?-but BB27, that is really another thread subject, one that has been beaten up too much already-BUT- I had to say it.

seis dedos returns-bring on the skinny octopus. Sure why not, 28 pounds can have a significant impact.

What this means to us is that even with sellouts and a new stadium, Miguel will not be a Marlin long term, probably not even into his contract year. Oh well, that is the life of a Marlin fan.

I have no problem with the Mermaids but I really don't think our baseball team needs "cheerleaders" or whatever they are. We aren't the Dolphins or Heat. Joe has a point. Hey Accord, funny stuff. Rachel, Joe does not have any point. I do not need mermaids, but their existence is far from objectionable, given what is on TV, movies, billboards etc etc. How about the news and all the wars and suicide bombers etc. I always took both sides with a grain of salt, especially not being too thrilled with our ownership and management, but it does look like Joe may have been sticking his head in too many areas of the team. We know he wanted full control of the on field product, now he wanted to make marketing decisions. It is not 1955 anymore-for better or worse, Joe.

Well, let me be the 15th person to ask, Why would the braves want Borchard for Longerhands (I know his name). The Braves haven't won all those division titles by being that dumb. If it was a real chance, then do it in a heartbeat.

Seems like Mesa would fall right in line with the previous closers for us. He's a vet, will be very cheap, has lots of closing experience and will most likely take a 1 year deal. I never really liked the guy but I could see him doing fine. I mean, who expected Benitez, then Jones then Borowski to have the years they had? They weren't exactly world beaters before coming here anyways. It makes you cringe thinking about it.. but he looks like the same guy as the ones before him. Plus.. we can have the chance to see Joe Table pitch to Mike Olive-tree. Mesa will be 41 in May-despite our history, this might be one closer I pass on if he is to be our main closer. I can see him as a set up and spot closer, but not the guy you want to come out of the pen two or three nights in a row.

Dan Kolb always brings a smile to my face-WHEN HE WAS COMING OUT OF THE BULLPEN-because I always feel like we had a better than 70% chance to get back in the game. If we had him, it would be cringe city every time out.

Very funny, but I wouldn't discount anyone as young as Vargas It took Koufax and Clemente 5 year to come into their own, and they were labeled as "bust" early on their careers. I could respond with-"Vargas possibly=Koufax". There are few things in life worth betting the house on-this would be one of them. Koufax had crazy stuff. He scared people with his fast ball, especially since he could not control it-sort of a left handed Ryne Duran, and had arguably one of the best curves in the history of baseball. We all know what happened to Koufax when he got things under control. I do think I understand that you mean that Vargas can start throwing his curve and changeup with better control, thus making his 88 mile fastball more effective. We saw people laying off his off speed stuff and then lacing his fastball all over the place.

We always had the govenor signing off on the staduim its the state senate that has always screwed us. Tom Lee is outta there so that is a huge step forward That's not really true. Jeb killed the cruise tax and rightfully so I might add. I do not recall the exact amount of the cruise tax, but I do agree that is was necessarily the right thing to do. There are tourist taxes in all tourist destinations and cruise taxes everywhere they go. I do not remember that the tax would have been significant. I took my family on a cruise this summer and the total cost for 4 for the cruise part was over $5,000-I doubt I would have decided not to go if it cost an extra $50. As far as Jeb doing it for the right reasons, well that would be based on your perspective. Maybe it had something to do with the following as reported by the St. Pete Times: In June 2000, Cruise Industry Gave State GOP $500,000. In June 2002, the Cruise Industry Community Fund, a Virginia-based industry group, gave the Florida GOP $500,000. The campaign donations came in two checks and established the cruise industry trade group as the state party's largest single donor for this year's campaign. [st. Petersburg Times, 7/23/02] We always had the govenor signing off on the staduim its the state senate that has always screwed us. Tom Lee is outta there so that is a huge step forward That's not really true. Jeb killed the cruise tax and rightfully so I might add. I do not recall the exact amount of the cruise tax, but I do agree that is was necessarily the right thing to do. There are tourist taxes in all tourist destinations and cruise taxes everywhere they go. I do not remember that the tax would have been significant. I took my family on a cruise this summer and the total cost for 4 for the cruise part was over $5,000-I doubt I would have decided not to go if it cost an extra $50. As far as Jeb doing it for the right reasons, well that would be based on your perspective. Maybe it had something to do with the following as reported by the St. Pete Times: In June 2000, Cruise Industry Gave State GOP $500,000. In June 2002, the Cruise Industry Community Fund, a Virginia-based industry group, gave the Florida GOP $500,000. The campaign donations came in two checks and established the cruise industry trade group as the state party's largest single donor for this year's campaign. [st. Petersburg Times, 7/23/02] Oops, correction, first sentence, "I do not agree" that is was necessarily the right thing.