AGonzalez11

Piganator banned in 5....4....3....2...1.... If you're going to make up trades -- the least you could do is make them believable. Whoever said the Marlins would be dumb for trading Castillo for Barry Zito, Marcus Giles and Eric Byrnes should be shot.

We could have also gotten Felix Pie for Armando. An arm and a leg for Pavano. We could have been had the best farm going into the season this year if the FO didn't believe we had a chance when our offense was anemic. 693069[/snapback] Yup -- We ended up in an awful position last year. Not making the playoffs -- but not being far enough out to justify selling guys off. We could have built up our farm like you couldn't believe. That being said -- you cant fault Beinfest -- you cant tell me you wouldn't have been irate at the time if Pavano and Benitez were dealt away. Hindsight is always 20/20

Encarnacion's arm is sick. Vlad-like. Cabrera's arm is a notch below, but still very strong. Conine's got a left-fielder's arm. He depends a lot on getting to the ball quick and a quick release, as we saw in the 2003 NLDS Game 4. Just put Cabby at SS, his original position, and Niner in left, Enc in right! That solves everything! :plain 680424[/snapback] Niehter of the two are near Guerrero or Ichiro...I'd say Cabrera has the stronger arm but Encarnacion(when his head is in the game) is more accurate.

Miggy has a much better arm than Conine, and probably a stronger arm than Encarnacion. 680391[/snapback] Cabrera has a terrible arm dude. Certainly not an outfielders. 680393[/snapback] Are you joking? Cabs arm is a CANNON. 680395[/snapback] Uhhh...no. Enc has a cannon. Cabs is an infielder who got moved to the outfield. His arm is somewhat below average at best. 680413[/snapback] LOL! you've got to be kidding me. Cabrera's arm below average?? LMAO! Classic! Did you even watch a Marlins game the past two years? I'd go as far as saying Cabrera has the strongest arm on the team. Yes, Encarnacion too has a cannon, but Cabrera's is EASILY just as strong if not stronger.

WOW!! I'm the biggest Ordonez fan there is and thats even too much for my taste....Pudge last year and now this....Boras is a criminal. 678533[/snapback] Ummm....I think Pudge earned his contract last year. 678635[/snapback] Ummm...last I checked it wasn't a one year deal. Let's see if you're saying that after the fourth year, shall we?

WOW!! I'm the biggest Ordonez fan there is and thats even too much for my taste....Pudge last year and now this....Boras is a criminal.

Yeah. Vazquez would be a long shot. I wouldn't mind, however, getting Murphy or Shawn Estes in return. 672215[/snapback] If the Marlins wanted Estes they could have just signed him a couple weeks ago. Encarnacion has no value...you'd be lucky to get a used jockstrap to get someone to take his contract.

Is he really better than Bump? Plus he would block Haggerty. 670581[/snapback] A HEALTHY Kim is better than anyone in our bullpen...the problem is he probably isn't healthy.

After eight seasons as a member of the Marlins radio broadcast team, Jon "Boog" Sciambi is leaving the organization. P.J. Loyello, the Marlins' vice president for communications and broadcasting, said Sciambi informed the team he would not be returning in 2005. Last I read about Boog, I thought he was given the TV Job...WTF? What a loss that would be...Kasper AND Boog in one year....OOF! :thumbdown :mad

It all depends on their spring training's, but to be honest, I think Encarnacion has the advantage over Conine. Conine in right just isn't an option anymore. He's too old and won't last longer than a month in RF. He could play left, but that would mean putting Cabs back in right and as we all know it's a huge sacrifice defensively....so unless Conine outproduces Enc by a HUGE margin in spring training, i think we could see Niner riding the pine. That being said, all other factors being equal, I'd much rather have Niner in the lineup.

Unless the Rockies can pay half of his contract (9 mil per year) AND take Conine AND Encarnacion, I don't see it happening. To get them to take that kind of cash, we'd have to give up the farm. We'd be better off with Delgado, even though I agree Helton is the better player. 663347[/snapback] Whos gona play RF? 663585[/snapback] someone who doesn't cost 4.5 mil like Conine and Enc do....

Unless the Rockies can pay half of his contract (9 mil per year) AND take Conine AND Encarnacion, I don't see it happening. To get them to take that kind of cash, we'd have to give up the farm. We'd be better off with Delgado, even though I agree Helton is the better player.

The Delgado thread is out of control. I don't want Delgado. I don't want to mortgage the Franchise. I don't want someone who won't stand for the National Anthem. We have a Gold-Glove 1B in Conine. You going to bench him? He (and his shoulders) can't play OF anymore. Get Real! 658889[/snapback] Those zero Gold Gloves Conine has collected are really impressive arent they? Delgado standing for what he believes in is a negative trait? Thats news to me. From everything I've been reading about Delgado is that he is a class act and a great person. I think his market value is a bit high considering he only hit .269 last year, and IS aging, but he'd still make a solid addition in my eyes.

What about Burnitz...do you think he would be willing to play right...and if so...we could trade Enc. for some bullpen help. 657825[/snapback] :thumbdown Burnitz Strikes out too much. And he is a major downgrade defensively over encarnacion. 657904[/snapback] Burnitz is a very good defensive outfielder....

I say we make an offer for Magglio Ordonez, since no teams have shown any interest in him as of yet. 657758[/snapback] Ugh Boras though. 657761[/snapback] Signing a Boras client worked pretty well for us a few years ago....

I say we make an offer for Magglio Ordonez, since no teams have shown any interest in him as of yet. 657758[/snapback] The Cubs and Orioles have shown serious interest. He is holding a workout in a week or so to prove his health to those interested. I obviously would say Ordonez too....Hey...he lives in Miami....why not? :thumbup

I also wonder if bringing in Vazquez (I still subscribe to Gammon's account that he didn't go to LA because it was too far away from PRand DePodesta understood that) might help in acquiring Delgado, both having homes in Puerto Rico. Just a thought. 653235[/snapback] Marlins2003...I like your thinking! Vazquez's ties to the Loria regime along with Delgado's desire to be out of the AL East (how can even think of wasting away in Baltimore?) along with the PR connections have got me feeling good... C'mon Beinfest...get it done! :thumbup 653444[/snapback] Just the opposite. If they deal for Vazquez I think that totally washes out any chance at Delgado. They 11-12 mil per year they are throwing at Delgado would not be available anymore with Vazquez on the payroll. The ONLY WAY this could be plausible is if the D-Backs take Encarnacion AND Conine or Valdez in the deal as salary dumps and I don't see that happening unless we overpay grossly. So...It's either Delgado or Vazquez...not both. 653467[/snapback] again, if we lose enc and brunett we can have vazquez and delgado. Vazquez will come with cash so we'll save money from the 8.5 million owed to burnett and enc combined. So in the end what we wont see if delgado, vazquez, and burnett together 653473[/snapback] Reread the article...Burnett's name isn't involved in this rumor...the whole point of this deal from the Marlins perspective is to add a good 5th starter(Valdez is average at best). Trading Burnett defeats the purpose.

I also wonder if bringing in Vazquez (I still subscribe to Gammon's account that he didn't go to LA because it was too far away from PRand DePodesta understood that) might help in acquiring Delgado, both having homes in Puerto Rico. Just a thought. 653235[/snapback] Marlins2003...I like your thinking! Vazquez's ties to the Loria regime along with Delgado's desire to be out of the AL East (how can even think of wasting away in Baltimore?) along with the PR connections have got me feeling good... C'mon Beinfest...get it done! :thumbup 653444[/snapback] Just the opposite. If they deal for Vazquez I think that totally washes out any chance at Delgado. They 11-12 mil per year they are throwing at Delgado would not be available anymore with Vazquez on the payroll. The ONLY WAY this could be plausible is if the D-Backs take Encarnacion AND Conine or Valdez in the deal as salary dumps and I don't see that happening unless we overpay grossly. So...It's either Delgado or Vazquez...not both.

What frustrates me most in these kinds of threads is that people advocating for Doug Mientkiewicz (for example) feel obligated to trash other candidates or former players. There's no reason to put down Choi or Conine, both of whom soundly outhit this guy last season, just make your points. Absolutely none. All of them are major league ballplayers who deserve credit for their years of hard work and accomplishments. 638681[/snapback] If that comment is directed at me -- try reading my post carefully. I was only comparing Choi and Conine's DEFENSIVE abilities to Mientkiewicz's. Never once did I say a word about Mientkiewicz being a better hitter -- actually quite the opposite. There's a huge difference between comparing and trashing.

Let me settle this: Conine is above average at first, and can make a great play or two but don't expect it. Choi is just as good as Conine, and showed some suprising solidity at first for us last season. Mientkiewicz is better than anyone not named Derrick Lee. Not only that, but he's capable of hitting .300 and putting up a very nice on-base percentage. I think he is a PERFECT fit for this team. 638604[/snapback] He hit .238 last year and his power is non-existant...we can't afford to shell out 3.5-4 mil to another dead bat. Unless it's Encarnacion for Mientkiewicz, no thanks.

I was pretty content defensively with Conine last year flawless he might be avg but he did a heck of a job at being average 638597[/snapback] He's solid, but doesn't make the amazing, save-your-ass type of plays Lee and Mientkiewicz make on a consistent basis... I'm not trying to bash Conine or say im not content with him defensively, but to say he's the equivalent to Mientkiewicz is pretty ignorant.

He is pretty much the equivalent of Conine. I'll pass. 638559[/snapback] My thoughts exactly. If Choi and Conine can't make people forget about Lee's defensive ability, Mienky's definetly not. 638571[/snapback] Except Choi stinks defensively while Mientkiewicz has a Gold Glove and many more on the way. Conine is very average defensively, Choi is below average....Mientkiewicz is just as good as Lee, arguably better.

so where does Conine go? both Millar and Mienky want to start everyday 638556[/snapback] Exactly. And please don't suggest he goes to left while Miggy moves back to right. Meinky is not an upgrade over Conine offensively and certainly not defensively, Millar is too slow to play on this team. 638560[/snapback] Doug is definitely an upgrade over conine defensively u cant be serious 638563[/snapback] lolololol 638567[/snapback] What are you laughing at? Mientkiewicz is one of the best, if not THE best defensive first baseman in baseball...Conine isn't even in the same league as far as defense is concerned. That being said, I wouldn't want him...he's another dead bat in the order.

I have this scenario all worked out... :thumbup Get rid of Encarnacion, one way or another...whether it's packaging him off with AJ, or taking another teams problem(Chacon)... If you get rid of ENC and take on another guy like Chacon, it basically balances off, and you really don't save anything, so I fail to see that logic, so we NEED to package him with someone. Chacon only makes around 2.5 mil while Enc makes 4.5...not to mention you wouldn't need to sign a Perez, Milllwood, etc. to be the 5th starter. Chacon was awful last year, but an all star the year before as a starter...get him out of Coors and you could have a damn good 5th starter. As far as Boras and the Maggs deal...maybe you're right, but coming off a serious injury NO ONE is going to throw any type of long term commitment at Ordonez, not guaranteed at least. Maybe the $$ needs to be bumped to about 11.5-12.5 annually, but it should still be in our price range considering we no longer need to pay Hampton and Pudge after this season: 2005: 8.5 Option years: 2006: 11.5 2007: 12.0 2008: 12.5

I'm not following here.? Encarnacion is making $4.5 million, and we're supposedly $7 million under our budget.? So, by my math, that's $11.5 million with which we'd have to sign a fifth starter, a lefty bench bat, a lefty reliever and a right fielder. Did I miss something? 634971[/snapback] Even so, I'd rather have Magglio in right field and have a prospect in the rotation, a bum lefty on the bench and an invite lefty reliever. :thumbup 634974[/snapback] Well, if we're talking about Magglio and not JD Drew, he may be easier for us to sign. He and Boras would likely be accepting of a one year deal with a base of around $6 million and another $6 in incentives that would be mostly plate appearances (so he's paid more for being healthy than productive). JD Drew is out of the question though...he had a healthy year and ended well, so he's going to get a big deal off of someone. 634977[/snapback] I think any person would be an idiot to take Drew over Ordonez, considering Magglio has always been one of the game's premier hitters. And I was thinking something more like 3-years $24 Million guaranteed, with $12 Million in incentives (like you said, plate appearences mostly). If he knows he'll be healthy, than he'll take it considering in his mind it's just like guaranteed money. I, personally, can't have another one-year superstar taste. We need to keep someone for a whule, and I think he's the right guy to start with... 634991[/snapback] 3/$36 might be a little rich for this franchise's tastes. I know, the taste of the superstar thing is beyond annoying, but it's the only way we'd be able to get a guy like him to come, besides, Hermida is waiting in the wings and a 3 year deal blocks him... Now, if we get a 3 year deal for Maggs, Hermida could be the main chip in getting Hudson. :whistle 635041[/snapback] Hermida>>>>>Magglio :shifty Hermida is one of those prospects it would take a lot more than for a rental like Hudson IMHO. And besides, I want my favorite prospect to stay a Marlin. 635044[/snapback] Oh, I do too, he's that middle of the lineup lefty we've been waiting just about forever for, but if we do sign Maggs to a 3 year deal, Hermida's value to us plummets because he'd be turning 25 in the season when a spot opens up for him... 635048[/snapback] Nah, I don't think an Ordonez signing affects Hermida's value at all...if we do sign an OF to a long term deal, you'd probably see Cabrera moved to first after Conine's contract expires....