Marlins93

wats this mean... Seg?n el pelotero, Baltimore tambi?n est? interesado en Vladimir Guerrero. According to Mondesi, Baltimore is also interested in Vlad Guerrero.

Hmmm...interesting. He's a bit of a head case, but there's no denying his talent. He's an average 20/20 guy over 11 seasons, and had 24 HR/22 SB last season. Think of him as Vlad-lite (but not too lite). The Marlins may wait to see what happens with Guerrero before making a move for Mondesi. If he's "relatively" cheap, I say go for it!

Check out this outstanding column in today's Herald. It says a lot about the city of Miami's proposed stadium offer and the unfortunate lack of cooperation between the counties in South Florida. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted on Tue, Jan. 06, 2004 Arriola proposes stadium solution no one will buy By JIM DEFEDE Herald Columnist On Thursday, Miami City Manager Joe Arriola will present plans for a baseball stadium on the site of the Orange Bowl. In one scenario, he will recommend condemning land around the existing Orange Bowl, so that a no-frills, baseball-only stadium can be built alongside the existing stadium. The stadium would have no retractable roof and limited luxury suites -- both of which are likely deal breakers for the Marlins. In the second, he will suggest refurbishing the Orange Bowl to accommodate both football and baseball for the next six or seven years until the Marlins can find a better alternative site, as well as additional funding, to build their own stadium. ''Is it perfect? I know it's not perfect,'' he told me Monday. ``I know it is not even that great. I'm only offering them what we can do.'' The ideal solution, Arriola charges, would be for the politicians in Miami-Dade and Broward to get together and come up with a joint plan to keep the Marlins in South Florida. ''What is wrong with the two counties getting together,'' he asks, ``and building the perfect site?'' I told Arriola I was surprised to hear him say that, since it would mean the stadium probably wouldn't be built in Miami. ``So?'' And the team wouldn't change its name to the Miami Marlins. ''So?'' he says again. ``Are we so parochial that that is the only thing we care about? There should be real leadership that gets together and says, `Look, this is not the Miami Marlins, this is the Florida Marlins. How about all of us putting our resources together and getting this done?'' Excuse me, operator, can you please check this connection? I think there's something wrong with my phone -- Joe Arriola is making some sense. ''Nobody wants to do that, unfortunately,'' he says, referring to the political leaders in Miami-Dade and Broward. ``So what I am bringing to the table is the solution that a small city with budgetary issues can do.'' Of course, his solution of moving to the Orange Bowl isn't going to fly. Despite previous reports attributed to Arriola, which said the Marlins had dropped their request for a retractable roof stadium, Arriola now says the team has only agreed to listen to his proposal. ''They are willing to listen,'' he says. ``Are they going to accept it? I have no idea.'' Several sources have said the team is still adamant about wanting a retractable roof, because fears of rain delays often hurt attendance. Arriola said any participation by the city -- even for the Orange Bowl site -- would have to go before voters. ''The only thing the city will back is something that is part of a referendum and goes to the people,'' he said. ``The Miami Arena is a white elephant. Whether the county wants to admit it or not, the AmericanAirlines Arena is a white elephant, and if you go to Broward County, you know that Panther arena is a white elephant.'' A common complaint against Arriola is that he negotiates deals through the press, often blindsiding the county and the Marlins with proposals they only learn about in the newspaper or on TV. It is a more serious problem than Arriola wants to admit, and one that is gaining him and the city of Miami a bad reputation. Instead of bravado it comes across as an over-inflated ego. Nevertheless, his point is well taken. ''I am very open, and very, very loud in my thinking,'' he says, ``that people should be told the exact, absolute truth.'' As with many of his statements, Arriola was taking a swipe at Miami-Dade Mayor Alex Penelas. He cited Penelas' flip-flop on construction of the AmericanAirlines Arena. ''They would like me to do this deal in a backroom,'' he said. ``And I'm not willing to do that. I want this to be out in the open and for people to vote for it. It's their money, and they should vote for it.'' ------------------------------------------ Can't help but agree 100% with Arriola here.

Here's the Herald's version of the story: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Candidate proposes Fort Lauderdale stadium home for Marlins By MICAH B. RUBIN For the Herald The Florida Marlins will call Fort Lauderdale stadium home if House District 91 candidate Bruce McNeilage has his way. Located on Northwest 12th Avenue, the 8,340 seat stadium is where the Baltimore Orioles hold Spring training. ''I see here an asset that could be better utilized,'' McNeilage said. Converting the stadium into a 35,000 seat ballpark will require a $100 million investment, funded through a public-private partnership, he said. He said he would not be seeking public dollars through a bond issue. McNeilage said Pro Player Stadium, in Miami, where the Marlin currently play, is inconvenient for Ft. Lauderdale residents and a closer stadium will draw bigger crowds. ''I think the central location is more advantageous to the Marlins fan,'' McNeilage said. Fort Lauderdale stadium is located near Interstate 95, the Cyprus Creek Tri-Rail station and the Ft. Lauderdale Executive Airport. McNeilage said he has contacted Ft. Lauderdale Mayor Jim Naugle, Mike Agganis, owner of the Akron Aeros, a AA baseball team and David Samson, president of the Florida Marlins to discuss his plans. ''This needs to be further explored until all possibilities are exhausted,'' he said. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- First, the guy has to get elected. Then he has to convince Naugle, who's on the record as being against a stadium in Broward. I can't see how PPS location is inconvenient to Ft. Laud residents, especially compared to much of Dade. And Ft Lauderdale Stadium is actually in Northern Broward, not exactly centrally located.

I see Manny's point, I think the Marlin's want too much without commiting much. Let's be objective here. They want a prime location, but aren't willing to committ additional dollars. On the other hand, the Miami polititians (including Manny) over hyped the stadium during the parade and such. They made it sound like a slam dunk at that moment. I hope something can be worked out. Absolutely agree on everything you said. Manny and the rest of the politicians are at fault for getting over-excited after the World Series (who didn't?), but I remember him BEFORE the WS saying how the city had no money and that it had to be considered regardless of how much we want the Marlins here.

I'm busting at the thought of having Lo Duca. I love this guy. I wouldn't mind seeing Encarnacion for LoDuca, or something to that effect. I like LoDuca as well, although it seems most here don't care much for him. I remember he was a BIG thorn on the Marlins side in the series at PPS in August. Not much in the way of HR power, but he hits doubles and is a career .324 hitter with runners in scoring position. His defense is average, but he improved on his % throwing out runners last season. He would be a good alternative if legal problems tie Castro up in 2004.

I don't usually agree that building a stadium/arena downtown automatically helps to revitalize the area (look at AAA and Miami Arena and what little they did to improve downtown). However, there are some big projects underway to revitalize downtown Miami. - Performing Arts Center under construction just north of 395. - Plans for a "museum park" at Bicentennial Park. - Several high-rise luxury condo/apt. buildings going up south of Bayfront Park. - Children's Museum to be built on Watson Island next to Parrot Jungle. - Several nightclubs already in place. Throw a baseball stadium into the mix, and you got yourself a pretty happening downtown. All these projects, except for possibly the museum park, would be up and running by 2007. So the baseball stadium would not have to be a catalyst for revitalization but be just another piece to the puzzle, which makes more sense. The homeless downtown and near the Miami Arena are there primarily because of Camillus House (homeless shelter). I've heard talk about possibly moving Camillus House out of downtown, which should help to clean up that area a bit. I've never encountered crime or other problems on Metrorail. For events it is safe and reliable.

To those who are fighting over who are better fans (Broward or MDC)... Please Shush! :nono Let's first see if the deal gets signed, where the money comes from and how many people will actually show up for the next season games. I do not care if they build it in the moon or where the "real fans" come from, what is important is that they'll have a stadium of their own. Hopefully the lucky ones who get to have the stadium built on their "backyard" (Broward, Palm Beach or MDC) goes to the games, and the fish get the treatment they deserve. No cut it up! Nah...this topic is too much fun to remain quiet! I don't care if they build it in the moon, I'll continue to go to the games (providing they ever finish the proposed Miami-Moon metrorail line) I'm just pointing out a lot of the misperceptions that a lot of people have about negatives surrounding a POSSIBLE stadium downtown. If a new stadium gets built anywhere, we ALL are the lucky ones because we'll get to keep our team here.

But more importantly, if your demographic assumptions are correct how exactly does a move to downtown provide more of a positive benefit with regards to location? Assume for a moment I am the anti-Loria, hell-bent to build a stadium in the worst place possible. When I get out my map, I want to find a location with horrible freeway access and mind numbing traffic. Then I look for the most sparsly populated area in almost any metropolitan area (Downtown) and for added effect make sure there is no money and lots of crime. Bingo!!! Downtown Miami!! And as an added bonus I'll alienate 20-30 percent of my fan base that lives in FTL or farther north by moving the stadium yet farther away. Thanks for doing my exercise! A move downtown does NOT provide a more positive benefit for a large part of the population and fan base. I agree with you here and I have stated that a stadium near PPS serves the entire fan base better. My point was that even with the easier accessibility to most of Broward county than from southern Dade, the Marlins at PPS have not drawn well. Broward fans share the blame equally with everyone else. However, there is at the least adequate highway access downtown (I-95). You have another option, mass transit, from both north and south. Metrorail extends north to Hialeah right off the Palmetto and near the end of I-75. Get on Metrorail there and you don't have to worry about parking downtown. In addition, there are plenty of police officers stationed outside of the downtown Metrorail stops. In my dozens of trips on Metrorail to sporting events downtown I have never had a SINGLE problem. The immediate downtown area may not have a lot of people living in it, but you don't have to go more than 3-5 miles and you have Coral Gables, Coconut Grove, Miami Beach, and Little Havana is even closer. These are all areas with significant population and demographical advantages. I admit this move would alienate some fans, but will gain many others from the southern part of the metro area.

Right back at 'cha MDC fans. You've had the Fish down there for 10 years and how have you shown your undying support? by filling the place up with 10K fans a night. If a "true fan" should be willing to drive anywhere to support the Fish than why aren't the millions of people in MDC making the 10-30 minute drive? Fans who come out right now from Broward/PBC are the real fans... Besides, we count for probably half of the attendance now, and we drive twice as far as MDC fans do. Build it in Miami and watch millions of people wait in line to not show up again. Second verse, same as the first. Of course, bad attendance is Miami-Dade's fault. Good attendance is credited to those loyal "true" fans from Broward and PBC. :lol Fish Fillet...please grab a map of South Florida. Draw a point on the map on the Broward/MD line near the Turnpike. That's PPS. Now draw a point near Coral Springs in northern Broward. Next...draw a point just below the center of Miami-Dade County which represents Kendall. Measure the distance between PPS and the two points. They are about the same, right? Kendall and Coral Springs represent the center of the southern and northern fan bases, respectively. I live in Kendall. It is a 45 minute drive to PPS on a GOOD day. How far a drive is it from Coral Springs? I can assure you it's not 45 minutes! Next time you say it's Miami's fault for low attendance, please remember this exercise. Of course, you're a "real" fan and I'm sure you'll make the extra 15-20 minute drive from Golden Glades to downtown going against traffic.

If the stadium was in Downtown Miami, the Broward and PBC fans would have a fairly easy drive South compared to the Miami fans driving North. Comprende? You are correct. A stadium downtown means fans from ALL directions would be going opposite to rush-hour traffic. That's probably a reason why most cities have their stadiums downtown.

Here's a story in today's Miami Herald about the breakdown of Marlins attendance by county: Herald Article Only 12% from Palm Beach County, and 40% each from Broward and Dade. Season ticket distribution is 45% Broward, 37% Miami-Dade, and 13% PB. Not a huge difference at all between Broward and Dade if you ask me. I strongly agree with the article mentioning that any fans you might lose from northern Broward and PB would be made up for by fans gained from Dade, especially South Dade, and I would add the Upper Keys (Key Largo) to that as well. I don't disagree that a stadium site near PPS would be convenient for the entire tri-county region, but if Broward County politicians don't have any interest in a new stadium, then perhaps people should direct their complaints to them.

Imagine living in Kendall. There are probably 600,000 people there. How the hell are you gonna constantly make the drive to North Dade let alone Palm? Beach County? rofl, If all you're doing is trying to accomodate fans in Kendall, you may as well give up. It takes an hour to drive TEN FEET in Kendall, much less all the way to downtown Miami, Pro Player, or anywhere else in the tri-county area... :lol WHAT?!!! I live in Kendall. There are approximately 250,000 people living in what is considered Kendall (Kendall is part of unincorporated Miami-Dade county, NOT it's own city). Any census figures you might find are only for a small section of the area that we call Kendall, not the entire area. And don't forget the other areas of South Dade with similar demographics as Kendall such as Cutler Ridge and yes, Homestead. You're talking about a solid 400,000 people living in those areas. To suggest that people from Kendall and South Dade don't go to games is absolutely ludicrous. Pratically everyone I know from Kendall goes to Marlins games when they can. It is a largely middle-class suburban area with kids all over the place. It is an ABSOLUTE chore to drive to games at PPS from Kendall or anywhere else in South Dade. You have to go north with rush-hour traffic, a good 1 hour +. A stadium in Broward or Palm Beach would eliminate much of that potential fan base. Funny how no one here has said anything about ignoring the fans in South Dade, like if we never existed. I'll go as far as saying that much of Dade's fan base lives from Kendall southward. Needless to say, a stadium in downtown Miami is MUCH more convenient for us in the southern part of the metro area. Only a 15 minute drive to the Metrorail station, then a 30 minute ride up to downtown. I've done this trip many times for Heat and Panthers games when they were both at Miami Arena.

The city of Miami is willing to donate the land for the stadium, which depending on the exact location, could be sold for several million $.

metrorail will never be expanded to broward county It's supposed to be expanded up 27th Avenue past PPS to the county line.

I've run into few Marlins fans during my many visits to SW Florida, but maybe I'm not sampling a representative part of the population. I don't really care what they are called. I've rooted for the Marlins for 11 seasons and that won't change if they stay as Florida, however I do like Miami Marlins better.

Broward and Palm Beach County are South Florida. Miami and Dade County are only part of South Florida, and a sorry part at that. That's what Wayne Huizenga thought when he named the franchise Florida instead of Miami. Let's face it, relatively few people outside of SouthEAST Florida root for the Marlins. I think it's stupid how petty the "regionalism within a region" that we see in South Florida can be. Here's how I see this argument: 1 - Miami is STILL the signature city in South Florida. When national TV crews come to South Florida to cover an sporting event, what do they show footage of? Downtown Miami, South Beach, etc. They rarely if ever show any Broward or Palm Beach footage. Miami is instantly recognizable world-wide, tell someone overseas you're from Fort Lauderdale or West Palm Beach and they'll have no idea where those cities are located. 2. Miami and Miami-Dade County have shown all the interest in the new stadium, and that right there entitles them to call the team whatever they want. Therefore, I vote MIAMI Marlins. :thumbup

It couldn't have been more than 10% last night. I estimated twice as many Cubs fans last weekend as Yankee fans last night.

This is the way South Florida feels about the team... Just 15% will attend games regularly? :thumbdown The Marlins have provided South Florida with a spellbinding run to the World Series, winning back legions of fans. So what kind of fan will you be when they take the field next spring? 4.4% I plan to buy season tickets. (85 responses) 15.0% I plan to attend games regularly. (291 responses) 43.4% I'll go to a game once in a while. (841 responses) 31.2% I never go to baseball games. (604 responses) 6.1% I'll attend only if they keep winning. (118 responses) 1939 total responses You have to take those kind of polls with a grain of salt, but even if you take the results seriously, 63% said they would attend games at least once in a while. Once in a while could be a few times a month, or 5-6 games a year. As someone else mentioned, the key is getting consistent 30K plus crowds on weekends, and 15-20K for weekday games (of course I'd love to see more than that!). That's how it was back in '97, and we ended up averaging 29K that year.

At this point I don't understand why the Marlins should even bother with Miami anymore. They haven't got the time of day from one single crook...err, politician down there yet. It's time for them to seriously start thinking about locations outside of MDC. And, just as importantly, they need to start thinking about it publicly. It's become crystal clear that the Miami area isn't going to give them squat, so why not put the pressure on them by showing that they are serious about moving to Broward, PBC, Alaska, etc... Anywhere but down there. Besides, it's not like attenance would suffer if they moved out of Miami. It couldn't get any worse than it already is. Miami and M-D County are the ONLY ones giving the Marlins the time of day when it comes to a potential stadium. Broward County has given the Marlins the cold shoulder up to now. Sorry, but facts are facts. I'd love to see a new stadium downtown, accessible to mass transit. I used to take Metrorail to Heat and Panthers games at the Miami Arena and it was great, plus the trains were usually packed with fans from South Dade. I can't see it being any different for the Marlins. But, as already mentioned by others, I'll take a new stadium ANYWHERE in South Florida as long as it means keeping the team here.

it's COR-RUP-CION Do you know the Creole spelling too, just to make it even for everyone? Or are you implying something else behind your Spanish version?

Basically, Miami-Dade and the city of Miami have been the only interested parties as far as local governments go. Broward has repeatedly said no to the Marlins. City of Miami isn't bankrupt, but it can't afford to build a stadium without help. The big determining factor may be the revenues from the present hotel tax which needs to be secured by Dec. 1, otherwise I believe they have to wait a while longer. At least the city has some solid leadership these days, not the bozos who ran city hall a few years ago. I have a feeling a stadium deal will eventually be done, but both the Marlins and the local goverment (a.ka. the taxpayer) will have to cough up some money. Location will be in downtown Miami, but not by the water.

I've been following McDowell's columns since early August, and it's comforting to know that in late August he picked the Marlins, yes our Marlins, to be the first ones to drop out of the wild card race! He picked the Dodgers to win the wild card all along, which wasn't necessarily a bad pick in August, but he insisted that the Marlins would fade quicky for many of the same reasons everyone else in the media dismissed them. Just count McDowell as another non-believer who got proven wrong!

There was an letter to the editor in today's Miami Herald from Jason Palmer, a White Sox fan from Chicago, congratulating the Marlins for beating the Cubs! Here's the link - Letter to Editor Wonder if he's one of the White Sox fans who's been supporting us on this board recently. Thanks Jason for your support!

What a great marriage the White Sox and Marlins is. Two charachterless teams that no one cares about. If you combine the two team's regular attendance fans you could almost fill half of whatever the f*** the corporate name of yourr two ballparks is. Loser talk.