Fish Fillet Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Hey ramp...It ain't 1962, players and management don't have any loyalty to anything other than the almighty dollar (not that it's wrong, mind you). Hometown, Smonetown. I think what Lowell really wants is that high-rise condo on Mich Ave. Probably asked the Marlins to hold off the Cubs a couple of weeks until he closes on it. Either that or a nice crib in Jeter's building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJBurnett34 Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 We should sign Burnett and Lowell Long term. They are our best players and will bring fans to the stadium and help us win. Mike lowell Shouldnt be traded to a team that isnt worth getting lowell. He needs to stay if we want to be a good team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Fillet Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Yes, we should sign Lowell long-term. Lowell needs to stay. And we also need to go out and trade for Giambi, A-Rod and Pedro. We've got just of a good chance to do this as getting Lowell in a Marlins uniform next year. Burnett is broke. Even if he does come back, why would the cash-strapped Marlins foot the bill for a year or two of his contract when he isn't playing, on the if-come that he might make it back and be productive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotcorner Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Lowell's at a crossroads after this year. If he keeps up these numbers it'll be one of those career-defining moments for him. Does he take the money and go elsewhere? Likely playing for packed houses in Chicago and New York where he'll get the press and the endorsements and the attention? Or does he stay in baseball limbo with the Marlins? If so he'll likely take less money. On the other hand, will the front office here even make an attempt to sign him to a deal? And more importantly, should they? Fish Fillet has a point, one player making a quarter of the team payroll may be too lopsided for the Marlins. It's the same problem we had when Cliff Floyd left. Team payroll was around 40 million and Cliff wanted 10. I hope they can work something out, I really do. If they hadn't made this deal with Pudge, there's an extra 10 million over 4 years they'd have as bargaining room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Fillet Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Awww, c'mon. Pudge is awesome. The ladies love him and he also did those neat little promos on TV!! It's a little unrealistic to also expect him to hit over .250 or stop a pitch or two every now and again. Boy, did the Marlins get a steal for the 10 mil. Didn't they wonder why no decent team would touch him with a ten foot pole? Can you say "Impulse Purchase?" Great point. 10 mil would go a loooooooooooonng way to ensuring some (heck, one) of our exisiting talent returns. Chalk another one up to the Loria, Beinfest and Sampson. Good job guys!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Chalk another one up to the Loria, Beinfest and Sampson. Good job guys!!!!! You can't blame them for trying when most of the fans on this board were excited and happy the day Pudge was signed. Look at this thread. We didn't expect him to have a sub-par year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Fillet Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Yes, I can blame them. As fans, it's our job to get excited about a new aquisition, drooling as we look at his career stats, fantasizing about long home runs and runners getting gunned down. As for management, that's not their job. Their job is to be rational. To properly assess a players talent, judge the market and current MLB atmosphere, scour through scouting reports and then make the best decision based on these factors. Don't you get the feeling the Marlins were running against the herd when they signed Pudge? NO ONE thought he was worth what the Marlins did. We just paid 10 mil for a long list of impressive career stats that no longer apply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotcorner Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 I'm not blaming the front office for signing Pudge, but I am saying they overpaid for him. I liked the fact that they did something at least. I was just pointing out the fact, that's money they could use now. And I'm quite sure they were well aware that with this silly policy of one-year arbitration deals, they have to come up with millions more each year to keep the same players around. Where's that money going to come from? Obviously the answer is they CAN'T keep the same players around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Don't you get the feeling the Marlins were running against the herd when they signed Pudge? I don't know, I have to believe he would've gotten a deal somewhere for around the same price tag. He wanted a multi-year deal I believe and was not happy with the offers on the table for that. The fish came along with a 1 year offer and he jumped on it. Correct me if I am wrong, but that is how I remember it. As management, they brought in a marquee player who has put up stats year in and year out with the exception of years with major injuries. It was very possible Pudge would be an All-Star candidate right now and deserve to be one. I shouldn't have said you can't blame them, you can do what you wish -- but I certainly don't blame them. Obviously the answer is they CAN'T keep the same players around. Yeah, that's unfortunate and true. I wish I had the magic answer but like you said, the solution is obvious and it sucks. I am sure they were expecting a large increase in attendance and a much improved club that would allow them to keep our guys around and even possibly re-sign Pudge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotcorner Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Well teams weren't jumping at the opportunity to sign him, for whatever reason. Probably due to the age factor and how many catchers start to drop in production in their 30s, compared to the kind of money he was demanding. His stats had already begun to slip a bit, so who was going to give him some 5 year 50 million contract? He jumped at the Marlins offer because it was good money for one year, in a location he liked, and gave him the opportunity to showcase himself for hopefully a long-term deal after this year. Not to mention the Marlins included a no-trade clause. He was even talking about playing in Japan before the Marlins offer came around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eadearmas Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 What does Lowell want?? He wants Rolen-like money. And the fact is he going to get something very close to it next year in arbitration. Once again, there is no way the Marlins have the flexibility to offer him 25 percent of their annual payroll. Just no way. I have to disagree on this. Tell where have you read Lowell saying that he wants "Rolen-type money" to stay with the Marlins? For that matter, tell me which article he was quoted saying something similar, or even talking about his intentions to sign for more than 25% of the current payroll? Until you come up with an article where Lowell says something related to this, I would keep thinking that he can be signed. You know, not everyone is so greedy, and Lowell doesn't strike me as the type of player who would put money before his family and his team: too humble if you ask me. He strikes me as the type of player you want to keep in your team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eadearmas Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 On the other hand, will the front office here even make an attempt to sign him to a deal? And more importantly, should they? Fish Fillet has a point, one player making a quarter of the team payroll may be too lopsided for the Marlins. It's the same problem we had when Cliff Floyd left. Team payroll was around 40 million and Cliff wanted 10. I hope they can work something out, I really do. Let me repeat myself again: SHOW ME THE ARTICLE WHERE LOWELL SAYS HE WANTS TO MAKE 25% OF THE CURRENT PAYROLL. SHOW ME WHERE HE SAYS ANYTHING ABOUT THE KIND OF MONEY/DEAL HE WOULD BE INTERESTED IN FOR THAT MATTER??? Something else, Lowell is not Floyd. So, keep up with the facts people... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Thank you. He is a home grown kid, who loves Miami, playing in front of his family, on a team that doesn't attract much attention. I would love it. When you're making $7-8 Million a year, and you know you'll never need that much money ever anyways, then I would go where I was more comfortable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamrock Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 its funny how some of you think you know Mike Lowell. You actually have no idea what he wants money wise or location wise. Notice how all the rumors we hear around MLB is how Mike will be traded and not how our front office is working the numbers for a fat new contract. Don't get your hopes up. Lowell will be traded unless we just go on a sick tear. :plain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 its funny how some of you think you know Mike Lowell. You actually have no idea what he wants money wise or location wise. Notice how all the rumors we hear around MLB is how Mike will be traded and not how our front office is working the numbers for a fat new contract. Don't get your hopes up. Lowell will be traded unless we just go on a sick tear. :plain How do YOU have any idea that they aren't offering him the contracts they can? Because I will bet anything I own they will do anything in their power to keep Mike on this team. And if you look at how we did in this game, we might be set for the sick tear you proposed... This is a team that does NOT give up...They will fight 'til the last pitch of the last game... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Fillet Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 First off, You'll note that I never cited a direct quote from Lowell. I guess the only fact I was using in assuming Lowell is expecting Rolen-Type money is YEARS OF PRECEDENT IN MLB'S ARBITRATION SYSTEM!!!! Eadearmas - Lowell did not "say he wants Rolen-type money." The simple fact is that, under arbitration, HE WILL GET IT. Thusly, he expects it, as he should. WildCard - Thanks for passing along your preferences as far as where you would like to play and why. I'm sure Loria and the rest of MLB will keep that in mind during your $7-$8 million negotiations this off-season. Why can we not accept reality people??? Once again, the facts: 1) Marlins DO NOT pursue long-term contracts 2) Marlins WILL NOT SPEND 5-8 million on a player, especially in a long-term deal. 3) Marlins will not pursue any deal with Lowell that would eat up a HUGE percentage of the Marlins payroll. Did all of you go on vacation in 1997 and just get back or something? So I ask again: Why would Lowell accept less money, for a shorter-term deal, in a market with no potential for endorsement money, on a team that has high turnover, on a team that doesn't compete? And no I don't place much emphasis on theories involving what Lowell "feels" or thinks. He's a professional, and like everyone else he will go where he can get the most for his services. Plain as that. Go ahead and "keep thinking he will be signed", because it's obvious that no matter how much evidence and history is put in front of you you still refuse to accept the truth. Lowell is gone, get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 First off, You'll note that I never cited a direct quote from Lowell. I guess the only fact I was using in assuming Lowell is expecting Rolen-Type money is YEARS OF PRECEDENT IN MLB'S ARBITRATION SYSTEM!!!! Eadearmas - Lowell did not "say he wants Rolen-type money." The simple fact is that, under arbitration, HE WILL GET IT. Thusly, he expects it, as he should. WildCard - Thanks for passing along your preferences as far as where you would like to play and why. I'm sure Loria and the rest of MLB will keep that in mind during your $7-$8 million negotiations this off-season. Why can we not accept reality people??? Once again, the facts: 1) Marlins DO NOT pursue long-term contracts 2) Marlins WILL NOT SPEND 5-8 million on a player, especially in a long-term deal. 3) Marlins will not pursue any deal with Lowell that would eat up a HUGE percentage of the Marlins payroll. Did all of you go on vacation in 1997 and just get back or something? So I ask again: Why would Lowell accept less money, for a shorter-term deal, in a market with no potential for endorsement money, on a team that has high turnover, on a team that doesn't compete? And no I don't place much emphasis on theories involving what Lowell "feels" or thinks. He's a professional, and like everyone else he will go where he can get the most for his services. Plain as that. Go ahead and "keep thinking he will be signed", because it's obvious that no matter how much evidence and history is put in front of you you still refuse to accept the truth. Lowell is gone, get over it. Ummm...they don't sign players to long-term deals because they don't want to make a mistake on one with an unworthy player. Mike Lowell is now a worthy player (although he was before), and will be the first if anybody to get a long-term deal from this franchise. And I honestly think he will... He is a home grown kid, who loves Miami, playing in front of his family, on a team that doesn't attract much attention. I would love it. When you're making $7-8 Million a year, and you know you'll never need that much money ever anyways, then I would go where I was more comfortable. Although I may be assuming what I say here, they are pretty damn good asumptions to believe. He would probably play better in a place with less pressure. Look at what Floyd did here. He had no pressure, he did great, He went to New York, he is pretty mediorcre. Preston had a LOT of pressure here, went to Colorado, and has played All-Star baseball. The point is, speaking as a player, if I know I am going to do better where there is less pressure on me to perform, and the contract is right enough, I am going to stay where I am definately the most comfortable. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Fillet Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Ok, so lets grant some creedence for a sec to everyone's interpretive emotional (and intangible) theories regarding Lowell's feelings and how he will react to pressure. Lowell is a fierce competitor, almost to a fault. Everything I've ever read and/or seen indicates the guy has a major red a** when it comes to getting up for a baseball game. Intense beyond belief. Truly a competitor. With this being said, do you think he sits down with his agent later this year and tells him something like this: "No Mr. Greedy Agent, I don't want the extra money. Places like NYY, Chicago and LA are going to put too much pressure on me. Besides, winning the WS isn't that big of a deal for me personally. I'll stay in Miami for less, that way I won't have to deal with the pressure or those pesky national endorsment deals." Puleaze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramp Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Did all of you go on vacation in 1997 and just get back or something? Lowell is gone, get over it. it's new management in case you forgot... and as we saw with Pudge this offseason, 'special' things can happen... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Fillet Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Yeah, Pudge has been "speacial" allright. Let's not get started on the "new" managment team, either. Second verse....Same as the first. Once again, Puleaze!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 "No Mr. Greedy Agent, I don't want the extra money. Places like NYY, Chicago and LA are going to put too much pressure on me. Besides, winning the WS isn't that big of a deal for me personally. I'll stay in Miami for less, that way I won't have to deal with the pressure or those pesky national endorsment deals." Puleaze. Yes. Like Vlad Guerero will probably do. Not implying he will come here, but he hates pressure. He knows he will get substantial money else where anyway, more than he will ever spend, so why not just go where you are most comfortable!? Makes sense. And like the 1997 season taught us. Suprises can also happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Yeah, Pudge has been "speacial" allright. I think he was reffering to the fact they spent 'special' money on him... Second verse....Same as the first. Don't you mean it's just the choris of this franchise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramp Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Yeah, Pudge has been "speacial" allright. Let's not get started on the "new" managment team, either. Second verse....Same as the first. Once again, Puleaze!!! i bet when we signed Pudge you said to yourself, "hmmm I bet Pudge will really stink for us" speaking of PU LEAZE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 i bet when we signed Pudge you said to yourself, "hmmm I bet Pudge will really stink for us" speaking of PU LEAZE True. But he will bounce back people. By the ebd of the year he will have his . 300+ average and 15+ HR and his All-Star start and his GG award... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramp Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 i bet when we signed Pudge you said to yourself, "hmmm I bet Pudge will really stink for us" speaking of PU LEAZE True. But he will bounce back people. By the ebd of the year he will have his . 300+ average and 15+ HR and his All-Star start and his GG award... no chance he wins the GG, no freakin chance Ausmus or Matheny.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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