Jump to content

Gathright or Church


Guest Juanky
 Share

Recommended Posts

Guest Juanky

Per My3Username's request.....

 

Personally, I say Church, because he's eaten enough chicken that he doesn't let himself get stuck in the face.

 

In all seriousness, Church has a higher ceiling and has more than one tool. Gathright is a poor man's Juan Pierre, whom we could just sign after this year without losing any prospects if we want his type of player patroling center and the top of the lineup. To add to this, Church will probably come cheaper since Washington has a dumb GM while Tampa Bay has one that thinks he farts sunshine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


RYAN CHURCH, of Age: 26 B-T: L-L Ht: 6-1 Wt: 190

Drafted: Nevada, 2000 (14th round) Signed by: Paul Cogan (Indians)

 

Background: Former Expos general manager Omar Minaya made one of his best trades when he acquired Church and infielder Maicer Izturis from Cleveland for lefthander Scott Stewart in January 2004. Like Admin Broadway, Church began his college career as a pitcher before hurting his arm. By learning to use the entire field and work counts better, he turned in his best offensive season in 2004.

 

Strengths: In many ways, Church is similar to Brad Wilkerson. He has a quick, classic swing and makes consistent hard contact. Strong and athletic, he?s an average runner with a good arm. He could fill in as a center fielder in the majors but fits better in right.

 

Weaknesses: Despite his 17 homers and .620 slugging percentage in Triple-A, Church might not have enough power to hit in the middle of the order in the majors. At 26 he?s not young for a prospect, and he didn?t exactly seize a big league job with his late-season performance.

 

The Future: The Nationals? offseason trade for Jose Guillen decreases Church?s chances of winning a starting role. But if given the chance, he could develop into a .300 hitter with 20-25 homers a year

 

 

The reasons I prefer Church over Gathright are the following:

 

1) Ryan Church is more of a sure thing than Joey Gathright. (Ryan Church is more or less a finished prospect already like Williangham with little room for improvement outside of defense) Like Williangham

I expect Ryan Church to put up # like the following next season:

 

Avg- .265 - .290

OBP- .340 - .370

OPS- low to mid 800's

HR- 15 - 25

RB1'S - 65 - 85

 

2) Ryan Church gives us some pretty nasty line-up flexibility

 

Church can bat 2,,4,5,6, or just about anywhere in the line-up because of his OBP and power ability.

 

3) Church is another tough out in the line-up to go along with (Hermida, Cabrera, Williangham)

 

4) Plays all 3 OF positions and has a strong arm.

 

5) Jim Bowden is friendly giving type of guy :angel cough...cough dumass . The cost of Church will be less than Gathright and he comes with a lesser risk.

 

At the moment those are the first things that come to mind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If this were a gun at your head, have to chose one or the other decision, I'd go with Gathright, but honestly the answer is neither.

 

Gathright has the chance to turn into an OBP machine which I find (and others will no doubt disagree) more potentially valuable with the guys hitting behind him than Church, who I think is probably going to turn out to be an excellent average day ballplayer somewhere. The thing that pushes me away from Church though is intra-divisional trading (the Nats) which I'm generally not in favor of. My view might change if a third team were involved.

 

I chose not to vote in the poll because frankly, I have no preference, and our team as constructed, already works for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Guest

Why not do a 3 way for both and get Bowden to foot most of the bill for Gathright(that way we dont overpay for someone who most likely wont be worth a crap @ the MLB level but at the same time makes everyone here happy)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Who's probably the better complete player? Church.

 

Who fits the team and the team's needs better? Gathright.

 

Unless we can get a leadoff hitting second-baseman (then what do you do with Andino)...we need to plug the leadoff hole with a centerfielder, and Gathright does this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gathright because he plays the better game IMO. He's also cooler.

 

Game that you overrate or overall game?

 

I don't buy the argument we need a leadoff hitter, and if we do that they must be of the punchless speedster variety.

 

The ONLY thing Gathright has on Church is age. And that's pretty insignificant seeing as both are past 24 and should be having their peak seasons under club control.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The ONLY thing Gathright has on Church is age. And that's pretty insignificant seeing as both are past 24 and should be having their peak seasons under club control.

 

Batting Average ?

OBP ?

Contact Hitting (K) ?

SB and SB % ?

 

Also, that age thing is very significant. Church is entering his peak right now, he relatively is who he is. Gathright is still two years away at a minimum and could turn into an run machine if he is able to hit .290+ in the majors and keep his minor league walk rate. With his insane speed, its a good chance to take. I understand Church is going to hit 15-20 HR, but it's not like high 700 OPS outfielders are hard to find. Before you point out that Gathright is even a less OPS threat, realize he is going to swipe 50+ bases at an amazing % where that is not averaged in. Gathright is never on free agency, and if he is, he is severly overpriced for a team looking for a leadoff hitter and loses value because he has a terrible contract. I know it wasn't free agency, but see Pierre, $5.75 mil. Gross. Ryan Church is VERY EASILY FINDABLE on free agency for cheap. Just because the Marlins are cheap bastards, doesn't mean you trade for a player that can be replaced for nothing in normal circumstances. I think this guy is a more power Todd Hollandsworth backup OF type.

 

The only way I would trade for Church over Gathright is if it's Pinto/Reed, and we hold onto the entire group of 6-7 young starting pitchers. Gathright is definitely worth the lower 2 or 3 of that group, Johnson, Nolasco, or Gaby. Of course, maybe I am underestimating the Bowden stupid factor and we can get Church for absolutely nothing, thus I am more then happy bringing Church in the mix because anything that gets Abercrombie back in AA, I'm all for. I like him, but you don't give up any value for him. Especially divisionally to another rebuilding team. Church is not a longterm option. He is just good enough to start on a bad team, and would be a stopgap until more OF depth is brought in. Gathright is a much better option for this team considering our needs in CF and leadoff, and for the long term in developing into a ridiculous 1-2 combo with Hanley. That's why if it's one of the other, I want Gathright. But of course as I have mentioned, there is that whole 'what does it cost' variable that's really the question.

 

If you guys want to start random trade rumors also, I bet the Marlins can get Jason Dubois and Brandon Phillips for even LESS then Church, and both would be excellent bench/platoon depth for us while we figure out what pitchers we want to keep, and who we want to trade for realistic longterm options in the outfield.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Guest

I'll agree the guy has great range, but range is worth crap if you cant judge a fly ball and then dont have the arm to make up for misplaying a flyball. That worries me more than anything with a young staff as far as Gathright is concerned.

 

Will Gathright get on base consistently at the MLB level? Maybe. The good thing about Church is he's a good stopgap right now until our guys down on the farm are ready. As for Gathright, if we trade for him and he sucks we have nobody down there to replace him with, so we are out a good young pitcher with nothing to show for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

These rumors arn't random. All have backing in major publications. They may not list the Marlins specifically, but most list them as a possible destination. And a message board is for anything it is for discussing hearsay of this kind for shits and giggles.

 

Anyhow, I'm not really sure who I prefer at this point. I don't know myself if a "leadoff" hitter is really necessary or not for a good, complete lineup. And MLou...wouldn't your argument be moot if Church played an average to above average CF? Seems like you're comparing the two in the context of Church being a corner player.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Until these rumors are substantiated, there's no sense in getting worked up about it. For whatever it's worth, I like Gathright more.

 

thanks for the 2nd reminder :lol

 

Are we allowed to have a discussion on it though? :whistle

Absolutely. I can't dictate the forums. :lol :lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

These rumors arn't random. All have backing in major publications. They may not list the Marlins specifically, but most list them as a possible destination. And a message board is for anything it is for discussing hearsay of this kind for shits and giggles.

 

Anyhow, I'm not really sure who I prefer at this point. I don't know myself if a "leadoff" hitter is really necessary or not for a good, complete lineup. And MLou...wouldn't your argument be moot if Church played an average to above average CF? Seems like you're comparing the two in the context of Church being a corner player.

 

I really haven't seen anything besides Bowden "liking" Reed, nothing with Church specifically to the Marlins. But I believe you. Likewise, I do consider Church a corner option even if he has the ability to play CF. I just don't think he's ever really going to be more then a bench OF on a good team. I think Gathright has way more starting potential longterm.

 

If they idea is to hold onto all of the good young pitching and get a stopgap, by all means. Church is perfect. But if we are looking to build longterm, which is what I want to do right now, Gathright is a better option. I know most just want to play 2006 and reasses, I want to bring in as many pieces as possible right now and take the risk Gathright, or a young 2B, or whoever flops, versus having all of these starters in the minors.

 

Like I said, it really depends on what Washington wants. If they want somebody like Pinto, of course you do it, but if they start floating Nolasco or better, I think Church is not worth that. Not saying Church is bad, but I think he's pretty pedestrian and you shouldn't really target guys who might hit some more HR then Reed Johnson or John Mabry from a CF/LF split. Those were cheap street FA from this year, which is why I mention them even if they don't profile as exactly the same hitter as Church. If we got him, Aguila/Abercrombie would be starting in CF. They are better defensively to my knowledge. Just kind of 'whatever' on this one. It's good for depth, but longterm, it just doesn't excite me. And that's what I think the Marlins should be doing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The type of players they are or project to be, I would estimate they are both on the same career path, each entering their peak seasons. Speedy contact hitters typically start their careers more productive and lose ground on other types in the traditional 27-32 peak age range.

 

Church has a .300 average in the minors, that's without time in the California league or the 100 more at bats at AAA Gathright has had. When you consider their power then and projected power, Church is a surer bet to keep his average up as he faces better pitchers and fielders. Church has had very respectable and encouraging walk an strikeout rates throughout the minors. While he has struck 25% in the majors and Gathright 20% of the time, Gathright's major league walk rate is half of that of Church's.

Church is an outstanding defender. He has both the range and arm necessary for centerfield, where by your own admission, Gathright will be a below-average defender.

I'm dismissing your stolen base argument out of hand, because from everything I've read in action, it means close to diddlysquat. And Church is a smart baserunner who will add his own share, without distracting both the pitcher and batter.

 

Neither are going to be stars, but Church projects to provide better production for his team until they reach free agency.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gathright because he plays the better game IMO. He's also cooler.

 

Game that you overrate or overall game?

 

I don't buy the argument we need a leadoff hitter, and if we do that they must be of the punchless speedster variety.

 

The ONLY thing Gathright has on Church is age. And that's pretty insignificant seeing as both are past 24 and should be having their peak seasons under club control.

Game that I think is better. That's why I said IMO. I'll take the small-ball speedster over another any day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share



×
×
  • Create New...