Marlins are right in the Wild Card and the local crap papers can only manage this worthless s**t.

I've said before and still believe that who is right or wrong is irrelevant in the big scheme of things. This is a battle that Loria simply cannot win. Sometimes the intellegent thing to do is put aside ego and personal feelings and do what is in the best interest of all concerned. If Girardi is forced out Loria will look like crap (even crappier than he already does) to the world. The leaks to the press about the clashes over personnel have only served to attract more attention to the melodrama.

 

Girardi has made a lot of mistakes and his in-game management has left a lot to be desired but he has worked extremely well with and for the players. That is what is noticed in the media. This is the worst possible time for Loria to be such a negative force. He should be thinking more like a lawyer - even if you feel you're right, settling may be the best option because pursuing your case could cost you dearly.

In the 5 years of Loria's reign of terror, we'll have gone through 3 managers (Torborg, McKeon, Girardi).

All of whom were forced out.

 

Beinfest was the one that had the biggest problems with Torborg and McKeon, not Loria.

 

 

Not true at all. Did they always agree, NO, but the bottom line was it was time for them to go on to other things. In McKeon's case, I assume that he still is in contact with Loria, Beinfest on a regular basis.

IMO, rferry makes some great points. Read closely.....there is a lot said in his post that are of extreme importance to any "boss" with the foremost being respect.

Catch it if you can. Don't know how insightful it will be...

The preview was a tease. They only showed Dontrelle saying "it is what it is" and they can't pay attention to it.

In the 5 years of Loria's reign of terror, we'll have gone through 3 managers (Torborg, McKeon, Girardi).

All of whom were forced out.

 

Beinfest was the one that had the biggest problems with Torborg and McKeon, not Loria.

 

 

Not true at all. Did they always agree, NO, but the bottom line was it was time for them to go on to other things. In McKeon's case, I assume that he still is in contact with Loria, Beinfest on a regular basis.

 

Beinfest went to Loria and said "him or me" regarding McKeon, the two never saw eye to eye last season, or allegedly for much of 2004.

And you really think someone's going to want to come to a job where the should be manager of the year is fired?

 

Ooooooooh boy.

 

 

This is my MAIN concern about all of this. I think its a fait acomple (sorry my French spelling is probably wrong) ; Girardi is GONE. But who will come in ?

 

I think if I were to come in I would have to say its in the contract the owner stays out of my face, if not I won't sign the contract.

 

Our hope is Loria will learn from this, but its always hard to teach and old dog new tricks.

Do you really believe Fredi Gonzalez would turn down the Florida Marlins manager job ???

 

 

Absolutely, as many jobs could be open this year.....San Diego, Chicago (NL), Houston, Baltimore, Philadelphia (if they don't make the playoffs), Colorado, Toronto and Texas, just to name a few I think have a chance of change.

 

Lets face it, as excited as we are the boys have played well, there is no garrentee that they will play this well next year, and many may have "sophomore slumps". Why do you think the Marlins made the FIRST priority to sign Girardi and THEN dumped the former players after last season ? They wanted a manager in place before he knew just how far the cuts were going to go. No one with any credibility would have shown real interest in the Marlins job, and certainly not Girardi who was the hottest new manager talent on the market if they had tried to sign a manager in January. The only manager material we may have gotten to come here was someone like Admin Bowa who has shown he is not really good MLB manager material, but is desparate to manage on the big league level again.

 

As bad and ridiculous as it sounds, with Loria in charge don't be surprised to find someone like Jeff Torborg back in charge, as he may be one of the only options they have.

Do you really believe Fredi Gonzalez would turn down the Florida Marlins manager job ???

 

 

Absolutely, as many jobs could be open this year.....San Diego, Chicago (NL), Houston, Baltimore, Philadelphia (if they don't make the playoffs), Colorado, Toronto and Texas, just to name a few I think have a chance of change.

 

Lets face it, as excited as we are the boys have played well, there is no garrentee that they will play this well next year, and many may have "sophomore slumps". Why do you think the Marlins made the FIRST priority to sign Girardi and THEN dumped the former players after last season ? They wanted a manager in place before he knew just how far the cuts were going to go. No one with any credibility would have shown real interest in the Marlins job, and certainly not Girardi who was the hottest new manager talent on the market if they had tried to sign a manager in January. The only manager material we may have gotten to come here was someone like Admin Bowa who has shown he is not really good MLB manager material, but is desparate to manage on the big league level again.

 

As bad and ridiculous as it sounds, with Loria in charge don't be surprised to find someone like Jeff Torborg back in charge, as he may be one of the only options they have.

 

San Diego, Baltimore, Philly, Toronto and Texas are all longshots to change managers this offseason, at least to me, but your point is very valid and well taken.

 

Good thought, hyperbole withstanding.

Nice article on Girardi from the Chicago Trib. (Long too) Sorry if it's been posted.

 

Link

San Diego, Baltimore, Philly, Toronto and Texas are all longshots to change managers this offseason, at least to me, but your point is very valid and well taken.

 

Good thought, hyperbole withstanding.

 

 

Hey I might not know a lot of technical info about baseball, but I am HUGE fan, and I watch at least 2 games a night (the Marlins and someone on the West Coast after the Marlins). I have no insider info, but its just the observations from a fan and what I hear & see on the TV talk shows like Baseball Tonight, FSN Final Score, Pardon the Interruption etc etc etc. I may be way off but sometimes just a regular guy fan like me has some accurate thoughts and observations. :mischief

 

a) San Diego is because they have new a new GM, and Bochy is not his man, and it was mentioned on BBTN that Dusty Baker could be a target for the new San Diego management team. That would leave Chicago possibly open for Girardi.

 

b) As for Toronto, Gibbons has had at least two incidents with his players become public (Hillenbrand and Lily), and I have heard roumored there have been more -- as well as the team I believe has underperformed, espeically in the last month as they have basically faded from the WC chase. Ownership put out a lot of money last off season and its only paid off with about 7-10 extra wins and no playoffs. I think Gibby could be out.

 

c) In Texas the team made moves and its not worked, and they have fallen out of the division & WC races altogether. Showalter hasn't shown a whole lot and ownership has to be nervous.

 

d) Baltimore again has failed to live up to the potential, and actually was one of the bigger disappointments this year. (Conine also miscalulated and I'll bet if he had known what we do now, he'd have chosen the Marlins offer instead of the Orioles offer).

 

e) Charlie Manuel's team has played better as of late, but if they don't make the playoffs there are sure to be a lot of offseason changes, including dumping of a lot of salary as the new GM there retools. I think Pat Burrell is a FA or close to it, and he may be the part of a big trade if he still has time on a contract, as the new GM tried to put together a team that fits his ideas and images of a good baseball team.

 

Now some guys on here have a lot more insider information and maybe even know people in the biz and have more credibility, so I don't stand on any of this as gospel, but its just some ideas I have from what I have seen from baseball this year.

Gibbons might be out of a job. Thats a moneyball team and the manager there is probably just a figure head. The real boss is the GM and they players probably know that. J.P is best friends with Billy so I wouldnt be surprise if things in Toronto are ran the same way. The view of a manager in Billy's view is someone who looks like a leader, and if Gibbon's players disrespect him, he's anything but.

Players show their support for Girardi

 

By Joe Capozzi

 

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

 

Monday, August 28, 2006

 

MIAMI GARDENS — Owner Jeffrey Loria won't say it, but Marlins players will: They like the job manager Joe Girardi is doing, and they want him to return next year.

 

But players are trying their best to not take sides in the feud between Loria and Girardi that has put their manager's future in doubt.

 

"He's the owner. He's the law. He gave me a job so I have nothing bad to say about that man. That's between him and (Girardi)," Dontrelle Willis said of Loria. "It shouldn't overshadow what the 25 guys in here are doing: We're winning. These are all playoff-type games for us. It's good we're responding this way."

 

Loria on Saturday wouldn't give Girardi credit for his performance as a rookie manager leading a team of mostly rookies onto the fringes of the wild-card race.

 

"Am I surprised? I don't know what goes on in his head," pitcher Scott Olsen said. "I don't know know what a vote of confidence would be. Everybody knows he's doing a good job. I don't think he needs to hear it."

 

Players have refused to talk about or even acknowledge the rift between Loria and Girardi that has simmered since spring training. After Girardi told Loria to stop barking at an umpire on Aug. 6, Loria fired Girardi before changing his mind when the manager apologized to Loria in front of the team.

 

Players did say they hope Girardi returns to manage next year.

 

"We've taken on his attitude, which is hard work," left fielder Josh Willingham said. "That's an attitude he instilled since Day One in spring training. We wouldn't be where we are without him, that's for sure."

 

"Everybody in here respects him. He has done a great job with a young team," said first baseman Mike Jacobs. " From Day One, when we were in spring training, he expected us to win and he wasn't going to accept anything else . I just think he has done a great job but obviously those decisions aren't in my hands."

 

Other players wondered how replacing Girardi would be the best move for a team of young players who spent the year getting used to Girardi's style and responding to it by overachieving.

 

"I'm sure all 25 guys in here would love to see him back," infielder Wes Helms said. "All 25 guys have gotten used to him, They know what he expects of the team. The players and him have kind of bonded. That helps out when you can work with guys over a year's time and get to know them."

 

Olsen, who has had his differences this year with Girardi, said he hopes the manager returns next year.

 

"I would like it," he said. "He has helped me a lot and we get along real well. I'm sure I could get along with whoever but I do like him. He's a good guy for this team."

 

Girardi declined to say Sunday whether he was disappointed that Loria wouldn't endorse his performance.

 

"Baseball questions only, please," he said.

 

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/conte...loria_0828.html

___________________________________________________________________

 

We can debate until we're blue in the face, but these are the 25 most important opinions. I'm no longer merely anti-Loria, but officially in the Girardi camp.

Focus on winning right now, we can deal with this at a later time.

 

But just for the record. Giradi we want you back

Focus on winning right now, we can deal with this at a later time.

 

But just for the record. Giradi we want you back

 

 

I second that feeling...This team is what it is as a result of Joe G efforts and ability to bring this team together. Beinfest brought in the talent but Girardi put it together

Olsen, Willingham and Helms just punched their tickets out of town... :whistle

Im glad we're able to hear from the players themselves saying Girardi has made a difference, contrary to the comments made by some of you, deeming him irrelevant to this year's success.

Im glad we're able to hear from the players themselves saying Girardi has made a difference, contrary to the comments made by some of you, deeming him irrelevant to this year's success.

 

Name me one Marlin, former or current, who has ever said negative things about his coach during the season while the player was still playing for the manager. I can think of only one - Dan Miceli ripped John Boles for being incompetent and for poor player positioning, and he was promptly traded for next to nothing.

 

Oh, and before anyone brings up Beckett/McKeon, to the best of my recollection, any bashing of McKeon done during the season was that McKeon didn't really have a personal relationship with many members of the team. Rather, he was simply the coach.

 

This article is meaningless. If you think Girardi is doing a great job and should be kept, then that's fine. But, it is flawed reasoning to base your opinion on what the current roster publicly states during the season. What else would they say (or could they say)?

Im glad we're able to hear from the players themselves saying Girardi has made a difference, contrary to the comments made by some of you, deeming him irrelevant to this year's success.

 

Name me one Marlin, former or current, who has ever said negative things about his coach during the season while the player was still playing for the manager. I can think of only one - Dan Miceli ripped John Boles for being incompetent and for poor player positioning, and he was promptly traded for next to nothing.

 

Oh, and before anyone brings up Beckett/McKeon, to the best of my recollection, any bashing of McKeon done during the season was that McKeon didn't really have a personal relationship with many members of the team. Rather, he was simply the coach.

 

This article is meaningless. If you think Girardi is doing a great job and should be kept, then that's fine. But, it is flawed reasoning to base your opinion on what the current roster publicly states during the season. What else would they say (or could they say)?

 

JP and Lowell did bitchfests about McKeon last year, and Lowell did the same in '04 "it's just not the same...*sniffle*"

 

When stuff like this goes on it's actually MORE COMMON to see players pile dirt on the grave of the embattled manager, not stick their necks out, en masse, for him.

Im glad we're able to hear from the players themselves saying Girardi has made a difference, contrary to the comments made by some of you, deeming him irrelevant to this year's success.

 

Name me one Marlin, former or current, who has ever said negative things about his coach during the season while the player was still playing for the manager. I can think of only one - Dan Miceli ripped John Boles for being incompetent and for poor player positioning, and he was promptly traded for next to nothing.

 

Oh, and before anyone brings up Beckett/McKeon, to the best of my recollection, any bashing of McKeon done during the season was that McKeon didn't really have a personal relationship with many members of the team. Rather, he was simply the coach.

 

This article is meaningless. If you think Girardi is doing a great job and should be kept, then that's fine. But, it is flawed reasoning to base your opinion on what the current roster publicly states during the season. What else would they say (or could they say)?

 

Agreed 100%. You think the players respected Girardi grabbing Olsen by the shirt? Its one thing for Messenger to give him a fistful...but the manager? That's intimidation, not respect. Girardi wants the players to fear him and the owner to let him be. How would Joe be if the owner grabbed him by the shirt collar and the players treated Joe with the same sort of lack of class he showed his boss (even if it IS Loria)?

Something missed by most articles is that the rift is not only between Loria and Girardi but also between Girardi and Beinfest (and his people). Over the past few weeks quotes from unnamed FO sources have continuously tried to torpedo Girardi. I think the rift started long before ST with differences of opinion over the coaching staff. Girardi wanted his own coaches and got his way. If you remember Beinfest wanted to bring Wiley back and Girardi fought it. I think if Beinfest had hired his own manager (Girardi was Loria's hire) then Beinfest would have had final say on the coaching staff.

I was listeing to Joe Rose this morning.

 

Apparently, what got this started was Girardi making public that he didn't like Loria being so vocal with the Ump during the games. Bad move, but what was done was done. I still want him back.

Im glad we're able to hear from the players themselves saying Girardi has made a difference, contrary to the comments made by some of you, deeming him irrelevant to this year's success.

 

Name me one Marlin, former or current, who has ever said negative things about his coach during the season while the player was still playing for the manager. I can think of only one - Dan Miceli ripped John Boles for being incompetent and for poor player positioning, and he was promptly traded for next to nothing.

 

Oh, and before anyone brings up Beckett/McKeon, to the best of my recollection, any bashing of McKeon done during the season was that McKeon didn't really have a personal relationship with many members of the team. Rather, he was simply the coach.

 

This article is meaningless. If you think Girardi is doing a great job and should be kept, then that's fine. But, it is flawed reasoning to base your opinion on what the current roster publicly states during the season. What else would they say (or could they say)?

 

Agreed 100%. You think the players respected Girardi grabbing Olsen by the shirt? Its one thing for Messenger to give him a fistful...but the manager? That's intimidation, not respect. Girardi wants the players to fear him and the owner to let him be. How would Joe be if the owner grabbed him by the shirt collar and the players treated Joe with the same sort of lack of class he showed his boss (even if it IS Loria)?

I think Girardi was out of line with the shirt grabbing but if players didn't support him they could say something along the lines of what DTrain said or they could bash him through the unnamed source route or they could give a no comment. If they didn't support him then they wouldn't support him on the record. Of course we don't know if Capozzi went to all 25 players and got only 3 to backup Girardi.

Gibbons might be out of a job. Thats a moneyball team and the manager there is probably just a figure head. The real boss is the GM and they players probably know that. J.P is best friends with Billy so I wouldnt be surprise if things in Toronto are ran the same way. The view of a manager in Billy's view is someone who looks like a leader, and if Gibbon's players disrespect him, he's anything but.

 

 

That's basically the argument I had heard on ESPN from Buster Olney. I believe Gibby's job is more tenuous than maybe Girardi or Baker.