I think Girardi had done a great job, but thats not to say that if we didn't have any other manager we wouldn't be doing this well. There is no way to know that...

 

 

I do know that the Marlins front office is like a mafia, Sampson and Loria can do no wrong in the others eye. Regardless of how Sampson f***ed up the situation w/ the city and county Loria refuses to replace him w/ a real negotiator to get this done. To add to what someone also mentioned earlier I definitly think Loria is irratated that Giaradi is getting all this praise...Loria wanted this season to a shitstorm so that he would have more leverage w/ the city/state/county and it hasn't turned out that way.

 

I think this team has a great chance of making a run at the WC but I think that the FO and Loria def. don't want that...I mean their plan was to make this team terrible in the immediate future but still worth a sh*t so that they could compete as soon as they got the stadium. I don't see how Beinfest doesn't make a move for a RP or a CF, the team has quite a few games w/ the Phillies, Reds, Cards, etc. not making a move lends more credance to the idea that Loria wants a failure this year...

There's no doubt Girardi will be elsewhere in '07

 

By Greg Stoda

 

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

 

Sunday, August 27, 2006

 

If not Joe Girardi, who?

 

It's difficult to envision Girardi managing the Florida Marlins next season with stench still lingering from his dugout/clubhouse episode with team owner Jeffrey Loria this month, and never mind the contract. Two more years might as well mean two more minutes, hours, days or weeks come final out of final game. Girardi will be sitting in the Chicago Cubs dugout as field boss or in the New York Yankees dugout serving renewed apprenticeship to Joe Torre next year rather than work a second Marlins season.

 

It took precious little time for Girardi and Loria to discover they can't co-exist.

 

Count on an agreement being reached as soon as possible upon conclusion of the season, after which Girardi and Loria gleefully will be rid of each other. That's almost as sure as another insultingly tiny crowd for the overachieving Marlins today against Milwaukee in Dolphin Stadium.

 

Loria, apparently, studiously avoided the subject when it came to giving Girardi much credit for Florida's surprisingly respectable performance this season.

 

"Managers obviously have some input during the course of the season," Loria said Saturday. "But what's important is the product put on the field by the baseball department as well. An amazing job was done by our organization before we started the season."

 

So who's next?

 

Girardi's departure, astonishingly, would mean there once again would be speculation about who might be the next Marlins manager. Weren't we just here? It was less than a year ago when Jack McKeon wouldn't say if he'd return to the job or if Loria wanted him to. McKeon, of course, disappeared to North Carolina and a consultant's position on the payroll.

 

He's a glorified scout is what he is.

 

How in the name of Jeff Torborg did things get back to this point in Marlinsland?

 

Torborg, you'll recall, is the old buddy Loria, as spankin' new Marlins owner, called to manage the 2002 team. Torborg lasted one full season and not even a quarter of the next before being fired by his friend in favor of McKeon, who promptly rescued the team and led it to a World Series championship.

 

McKeon then worked two more full seasons, which might amount to forever by measure of Loria years.

 

Now, this.

 

Now, it's Girardi who's going to find out a Marlins manager's shelf life under Loria is short. Very short.

 

Here's a question: How completely has Loria poisoned the franchise's managerial well?

 

"You gotta have a working relationship with the front office, and the owner is the most important man there," McKeon said Friday. "If you're working toward the same goal, it has to be a two-way street on respect. That's imperative."

 

McKeon, who said he had and has a wonderful relationship with Loria, compared him to Yankees owner George Steinbrenner in terms of passion to win. McKeon, who worked for owners Charlie Finley and Marge Schott during his career, said Loria "wasn't as demanding" as those famously intrusive owners.

 

But with every owner, McKeon said, "it's a case where you have to know they're the boss."

 

That can lead to frustrations in relationships. One National League manager described the resultant silence as "not wanting to say anything bad about someone if you don't have anything good to say about him."

 

Sounds a lot like Girardi-Loria.

 

"In this business, you have to bend once in a while," McKeon said. "Nobody knows it all. It's tough when things get confrontational, because there are a lot of hard feelings."

 

Previous candidates

 

An owner's reputation can expand - or reduce - the field of managerial candidates.

 

The strange thing is that the Marlins should be an attractive team next season with burgeoning potential of young players. But it'll take a certain kind of manager to deal with Loria, and not one of the names on my published list of possibilities to succeed McKeon last season any longer seems right for the gig.

 

(Girardi, by the way, was on that list. The Marlins beat a bunch of teams to the punch on hiring him, and look what good it did.)

 

The others:

 

? Lou Piniella - There's no telling what Piniella, who's out of uniform at the moment, might do if Loria offered in-game dugout criticism of him. But a good guess is that it would make Girardi's reaction look like a nursery rhyme.

 

? Ozzie Guillen - The guy who took the Chicago White Sox to a World Series title just last autumn is a mess. So what if he's a former Marlins coach? He can't keep his mouth shut. He hurls insensitive comments, complains about almost everything and his ego is showing.

 

? Jim Leyland - The man who led the Marlins to their first World Series triumph in 1997 was looking for a job last year, but wanted it to be "in the right situation." Maybe he knew something. He found it in Detroit, of all places, where he has the Tigers in favorable position for the top-seeded spot in the American League playoffs.

 

? Admin Bowa - The Marlins wanted Bowa as their bench coach under McKeon last season, but didn't get him (or he didn't want them). He's the third-base coach for Torre. But he has a reputation for volatility to rival Piniella's, which means he'd turn the clubhouse air in the Marlins clubhouse from teal to blue on the first hint of Loria interference.

 

So, it'll likely be Fredi Gonzalez, who is on Bobby Cox's staff in Atlanta and has a pedigree as a Marlins coach and was in the Florida mix last year.

 

Girardi, meanwhile, will be well free of Loria's circus.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/conte...stoda_0827.html

it's absolutely terrible that we are a legitimate playoff threat and this is overshadowing everything

 

just terrible

 

then again, maybe it's a blessing in disguise and the so-called pressure wont get to the kids if all they are being asked about is Joe

honestly I love Joe, he's done a lot of good, obviously.

 

and as Tim Kurkjian said on BBTN, he's gonna be firing the Manager of the year, and Joe's gonna get snatched up the second he becomes available.

 

 

but in the end, Fredi Gonzalez will do just as good of a job... if Loria hates Joe so much.

OMG....listen people...Fredi Gonzalez would be AWESOME as manager!

 

 

Girardi might be a good manager but he's too much of a control freak.

I don't doubt that he will be gone next year, but if Loria is smart he does not fire him. If the Cubs want him, we better demand a B level prospect.

There is no doubt Loria will fire him or he will quite.

Only reason I never cared for Girardi because his heart was always in New York or Chicago.....he just wanted to use this job as a stepping stone to go to a bigger market.

 

I really don't buy anything he says about wanting to stay here long term.

I would want Giardi back he's the NL manager of the year

I opted for Freddi Gonzalez last year, but I can't deny that the team has been successful with Girardi at the helm. They've has come together nicely, and Girardi has done a good job to instill a sense of discipline and legitimacy to the young guys.

 

From the outset Girardi said that he wanted to promote a culture of winning, that his expectation was to contend THIS year. Not next year. He instituted strange policies like the clean-cut rule, whose sole purpose was to let the players know that this is a business, that the business is winning, and that they need to take it seriously. There's something to be said about the attitude he brought into the clubhouse. And theres something to be said for the players buying into it.

 

It's inarguable that this team has talent, it is arguable however that they would have reached their potential without Girardi.

 

 

 

 

As an aside, I wonder sometimes whether Joe really knew that the team was going to see such a drastic reformation before the season began. If he didn't, could this have been a festering source of contention between the two parties and as the year wore on it became more and more bitter?

it's absolutely terrible that we are a legitimate playoff threat and this is overshadowing everything

 

just terrible

 

then again, maybe it's a blessing in disguise and the so-called pressure wont get to the kids if all they are being asked about is Joe

 

 

i agree with all that said, loria should get off his high horse, and keep joe here. Absolutely pathetic, that one comment can lead to this

it would be such a sh*tty situation if we end up firing the NL manager of the year

 

though im not too impressed with his manging skill, i dont see why we should dump him

we dont know if girardi's managing made the club what it is, or if it was the players themselves... but one thing i do know, you shouldnt try to fix something that isnt broken.

 

 

f*** f*** f*** f*** f*** f***

There is only one way to know if Girardi is the difference maker in that clubhouse or if it is just a club with so much young talend that it was destined to turn itself around eventually and that way is to be a part of that team. We can only speculate here. What I HAVE SEEN is that Girardi has made some horrible managing mistakes during games that cost us some Ws. But I don't doubt he knows what he's doing most of the time.

Joe G should be offered a lifetime contract with the job he has done...Can we trade owners? Well we did when MLB shafted us and we ended with whiny pissass Loria...John Henry is the only real owner this team has known and mutterfukkin Selig put him in front of the Red Sox franchise.

People will be chomping at the bit to manage this team next year.

 

We'll be fine.

I'm not a fan of Giradi nor do I think managers are that important but Loria is a total turd-fondler.

I'm tired of the general media making Girardi out to be this great manager because our team is exceeding their miguided, uneducated pre-season expectations for our team. Anyone who predicted a 60 win season obviously did not evaluate the talent on this team, but looked solely at our less-than-stellar payroll. I'm not getting into whether Girardi is a great manager or not. I've made my position crystal clear already. I judge a team's manager by his in-game management, and not by the overall record of the team, or by the sound bytes of its current players.

 

Notwithstanding, I'm willing to accept wagers from anyone who believes that our record will decline next year (we will lose more games) if Girardi leaves.

 

 

 

 

 

Your not going out on a limb very far by predicting the team will win more games next year without Girardi.

 

Hmmm.....lets see, everyone will have more big league experience, a real CF will be brought in and an arm or two will be brought in to shore up the bullpen.

All the talk that has come from this whole situation is silly. What adult has never worked with someone they didn't like? I trust people to have enough sense to know what's best for them and the team.

 

Plus, don't forget a potential X-Factor here - what if they actually do make the playoffs by some miracle and go deep into them? Do you still think Loria and Girardi wouldn't get over some silly arguments that, lets be honest, hasn't negatively impacted the team at all?

Joe G should be offered a lifetime contract with the job he has done...Can we trade owners? Well we did when MLB shafted us and we ended with whiny pissass Loria...John Henry is the only real owner this team has known and mutterfukkin Selig put him in front of the Red Sox franchise.

 

 

 

I'd like to see you tell your boss to be quiet then ask for a lifetime contract...... :whistle

it's absolutely terrible that we are a legitimate playoff threat and this is overshadowing everything...just terrible

 

 

 

Yes it is Ramp but for reasons I think are missed here by most.

 

If you took all of the published quotes of Loria's press conference yesterday, from the various published sources, and simply put them in a different order, the story becomes one that is completely different.

 

It appears from reading every account, the number one thing on Loria's mind was the "team" and how well the team has done and is doing. He says he (and the fans) should be focused on their play and our wildcard chances.

 

Sounds good to me.

 

When he speaks about the work of the front office and the organization it is in the context of the phrase "as well", not ignoring the manager's role, but remembering how those present to a person heaped scorn on the organization for what happened last fall, reminding those in attendance it wasn't by accident that the team as assembled was the product of a strong front office, and that they were the same people who guaranteed South Florida 100-120 loses this season, the same people who called a $15 million (actually $20 million but who's counting) an embarrassment to baseball, who after all, and who have been after Loria's head since day one in 2002 when took over the team.

 

I'd love to hear the press conference in its entirety to make up my own mind rather than be told what was said with a prejudicial tone. I thought Loria's comments about the team far outweighed anything else, but let's face it, once Steve Wine, Marlins-hater extraordinaire starting pumping out the first of his three poisonous pieces last night you knew how the press generally was going to play this.

 

I give Capozzi credit for quoting more of the press conference than anyone else. You'll find his take, and what was actually said, if not in its entirety or order, much different from what how this story is being exploited this morning

 

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/conte...6loriafeed.html

 

 

honestly I love Joe, he's done a lot of good, obviously...and as Tim Kurkjian said on BBTN, he's gonna be firing the Manager of the year, and Joe's gonna get snatched up the second he becomes available...but in the end, Fredi Gonzalez will do just as good of a job... if Loria hates Joe so much.

 

First of all, considering Girardi is making peanuts, this idea that the Marlins will fire him, thus losing what could be a windfall of compensation, from a business standpoint, makes zero sense.

 

If Loria really wanted to be vindictive, and I don't think he does, he could afford to let Girardi rot at home for the next two years if he wanted. But if the rift is unrepairable, then Girardi will be allowed seek employment elsewhere, but not before Admin Beinfest extorts a king's random in talent for him.

 

We don't know what was said by whom in the heat of the moment and we certainly don't know that Loria hates Girardi. We really don't know what was said or if there really is still a rift. As much as its easy to put all the blame on Loria because he's a convenient target there are several things Girardi could have said that would have caused ANY owner to want to fire him. And we don't know if it's Girardi who secretly wanted out and used this as an excuse to free himself from his three year contract.

 

One thing I find fascinating is how silent the players has been on this. Sure, there's comments here or there supporting their manager but I'm surprised, even anonymously, none have let slip any of the details of that Saturday night in the clubhouse. My guess is, it was Girardi who acted badly, perhaps rudely and worse, and at least until the season is over, the players have reason to remain silent. The worst that happens if they rat out the owner is they get traded, but ratting out the manager has even more disasterous consequences for their careers, and thus I believe the silence.

 

 

When I read Greg Stoda somehow trying to diefy Jeff Torborg, or insult the fans of South Florida by ignoring the 30,000+ in the stands last night and castigating the Sunday crowd which has come to understand that sitting through an afternoon Marlins game in August is truly hell on earth, one begins to realize how little the author cares about the franchise or more importantly its fans. I suspect in Stoda's mind, every penny wasted on Marlins tickets should rightfully be spent filling almost never sold-out Dolphins games.

 

But such is life in South Florida. It's not only the politics that has caused the Magic City to be known almost universally as a banana republic.

loria should not let personal matters with joe come into this. it should all be about the team's performance on the field.

this really upsets me...but anyways, if it truly cant be Girardi here next year, I'm scared of 07 already...I'd take Fredi Gonzalez if we absolutely must...but I'm afraid of messing with whats already been working :confused

Let him go...we'll be fine. We had maybe three or four people who even wanted this job last year...I'm fairly certain candidates will be lining up for the job with all our talent.

I'm tired of the general media making Girardi out to be this great manager because our team is exceeding their miguided, uneducated pre-season expectations for our team. Anyone who predicted a 60 win season obviously did not evaluate the talent on this team, but looked solely at our less-than-stellar payroll. I'm not getting into whether Girardi is a great manager or not. I've made my position crystal clear already. I judge a team's manager by his in-game management, and not by the overall record of the team, or by the sound bytes of its current players.

 

Notwithstanding, I'm willing to accept wagers from anyone who believes that our record will decline next year (we will lose more games) if Girardi leaves.

 

 

 

 

 

Your not going out on a limb very far by predicting the team will win more games next year without Girardi.

 

Hmmm.....lets see, everyone will have more big league experience, a real CF will be brought in and an arm or two will be brought in to shore up the bullpen.

Well, if everyone thinks he deserves all this credit for winning games, I think it is going out on a limb to suggest we'll win more games next year with anyone else as manager. And BTW, there is no guarantee we bring in a real CFer or an arm or two to sure up the bullpen.

 

How about 5 games??