Lets re-phrase the question how about Cabrara for Arod? they both play 3B and plus Arod is going to be cheaper then Cabrara after this season or the next because the Rangers and Yankees would still have to pay a majority of his contract. I would do that trade. He whats off the Yankees anyway.

Lets re-phrase the question how about Cabrara for Arod? they both play 3B and plus Arod is going to be cheaper then Cabrara after this season or the next because the Rangers and Yankees would still have to pay a majority of his contract. I would do that trade. He whats off the Yankees anyway.

 

:|

At first I said to myself "Hell no!".

 

But then I thought about it and thought "hell ya!". But ultimately I came to the conclusion it will probably take another ten years to know whether such a trade would work out. Both are great hitters, both are somewhat limited defensively, whether the leagues figure them out or not remains to be seen. On the latter thought seems to me Cabrera has a slight leg up although Howard is absolutely locked in right now.

 

It's one of those deals where there is no wrong answer.

I agree, this is a situation where both teams would probably keep "their guy" that they're familiar with.

 

However, the deal breaker for me (other than age) is that Cabrera has the potential to be substantially better defensively than he is now, and better than Howard.

I wouldn't trade Cabs for Howard today. Like many of you said, I would have to give it a couple of years to see how pitchers adjust to Howard and how Howard reacts to these adjustments. Cabs is also 3 years younger. There's no doubt Cabrera is the better overall hitter, and if he wanted to, he could hit 40-45 home runs. I also think Cabrera's stronger defensively.

If you look at Miggy's stats, he has improved in nearly every offensive category each season (with the exception of HRs and RBIs this year). He's been Mr. Consistent and has also been clutch (nearly .400 w/ RISP this yr). Howard hasn't proved himself to this extent yet (and w/ RISP, he has very unimpressive numbers.)

No.

I agree, this is a situation where both teams would probably keep "their guy" that they're familiar with.

 

 

that's true, moving a star player like that could disrupt chemistry and some frienships ..I'd really miss cabrera and amezaga's HR routine.

I wouldn't trade Cabs for Howard today. Like many of you said, I would have to give it a couple of years to see how pitchers adjust to Howard and how Howard reacts to these adjustments. Cabs is also 3 years younger. There's no doubt Cabrera is the better overall hitter, and if he wanted to, he could hit 40-45 home runs. I also think Cabrera's stronger defensively.

If you look at Miggy's stats, he has improved in nearly every offensive category each season (with the exception of HRs and RBIs this year). He's been Mr. Consistent and has also been clutch (nearly .400 w/ RISP this yr). Howard hasn't proved himself to this extent yet (and w/ RISP, he has very unimpressive numbers.)

 

*batting average

 

his OBP is still .407 with a .519 slugging percentage

Ask a Marlins based BB, AKA HERE ....and it is 80% in favor of Miggy. Ask a Philly BB , and it is 80% in favor of Howard. Ask a MLB, non biased BB, and it is 70-30 in favor of Howard. Me - I take Miggy, but what do I know?

I wouldn't trade Cabs for Howard today. Like many of you said, I would have to give it a couple of years to see how pitchers adjust to Howard and how Howard reacts to these adjustments. Cabs is also 3 years younger. There's no doubt Cabrera is the better overall hitter, and if he wanted to, he could hit 40-45 home runs. I also think Cabrera's stronger defensively.

If you look at Miggy's stats, he has improved in nearly every offensive category each season (with the exception of HRs and RBIs this year). He's been Mr. Consistent and has also been clutch (nearly .400 w/ RISP this yr). Howard hasn't proved himself to this extent yet (and w/ RISP, he has very unimpressive numbers.)

 

*batting average

 

his OBP is still .407 with a .519 slugging percentage

 

 

But Ramp, isn't batting average the best determinant of success with RISP? The .407 OBP is just because he's been walked so many times. I am talking about the 156 opportunities he's had w/ RISP. Granted, pitchers have been pitching around him, particularly since August when he got hot, but prior to that, his BA was still weak in those situations. (And Cabs was actually pitched around more through the first 3/4 of the season). Anyway, Miguel's slugging % is .641 w/ RISP. So my point being, Cabrera's numbers are quite a bit better in every category w/ RISP. Howard's #s go down significantly (w/ the exception of OBP).

Miguel coud do what Howard did this season in that park. He could hit 45 in Miami if he was trying to. Have you seen the guy take BP? I saw him hit at least 4 balls into the Dodger Stadium parking lot in one session. I saw him hit 3 in a row off the CITGO sign in Houston's left field (that's a BOMB!!!) Cabrera plays the game the right way, and he's still so young. He's going to be amazing in another couple years, well, more amazing.

Lets re-phrase the question how about Cabrara for Arod? they both play 3B and plus Arod is going to be cheaper then Cabrara after this season or the next because the Rangers and Yankees would still have to pay a majority of his contract. I would do that trade. He whats off the Yankees anyway.

 

Hell no

Not saying he cant but I love the "Cabs could hit 45 homers if he wanted to speech"

 

so why doesnt he?

 

Id much rather his BA be around .310 with 20 more homeruns

um.... no.

 

Is anyone going to be surprised when Ryan Howard drops an Adam Dunn batting average next year? Maybe not that bad, but in the .270-.280 range. Cause I'm not. Look at the strikeouts (about 180), and people are going to pitch around him now which is going to hurt his slugging with pitch selection. Still a great great player, but not as godly as what he is right now.

 

Ryan Howard: 28 2B, 58 HR

Miguel Cabrera: 50 2B, 25 HR

 

These type of splits just don't hold up. Philly and our ballpark's characteristics don't produce that drastic of splits - it's just random dumb luck with pulling two dozen different baseballs over the course of a season. Expect some serious evening out between those numbers for both players next season. I'd anticpate 15-20 less HR and more 2B (or triples if fatty can run that far) for Howard, and 10-15+ more HR for Cabrera just based on the stats. Basically, I don't see Howard doing this year again, and I am not going to be shocked (sparing injury) when 2006 turns out to be Cabrera's lowest HR total this decade. Once the HR gap is bridged, what's the differance? Better natural hitter, younger, and can play defense. No brainer.

 

Pujols and Santana are the only players worth Cabrera in any trade right now.

No. Ryan Howard is a 1B and it is easier to get production from 1B than 3B.

In terms of VORP, Howard is 3rd in the majors this year, Cabs is 4th.

 

So really, offensively its close with Howard having a small edge, due to the large amount of homers he hits.

 

Thing is though, Cabs plays a more valuable spot (and his defense is clearly better than it looked early on), and Cabs has been an elite player for longer. Expecting Howard to hit 55+ homers every year is unrealistic, and if there is any dropoff in that category he'll drop below Cabrera as a hitter (in terms of overall value).

 

Honestly though, both teams and their fans are happy with what they have and so they should be. I wouldn't expect either side to agree to the trade.

I think this question would also depend on who the Marlins had protecting Howard. If he were in our current lineup, I don't think he would have been very successful; he's a pure slugger, and he would have had to make adjustments, like Cabs did this year, and not merely swing for the fences. Situational hitting isn't one of Howard's strong suits.

I think this question would also depend on who the Marlins had protecting Howard. If he were in our current lineup, I don't think he would have been very successful; he's a pure slugger, and he would have had to make adjustments, like Cabs did this year, and not merely swing for the fences. Situational hitting isn't one of Howard's strong suits.

 

who did Howard have protecting him this year?

I believe there is no way you don't make this trade. Howard is the kind of hitter Cabrera will never be. I agree pitching may catch up to Howard next year, but I believe he is a 50HR per season hitter.

 

Just my 2cents

I think this question would also depend on who the Marlins had protecting Howard. If he were in our current lineup, I don't think he would have been very successful; he's a pure slugger, and he would have had to make adjustments, like Cabs did this year, and not merely swing for the fences. Situational hitting isn't one of Howard's strong suits.

 

who did Howard have protecting him this year?

 

Well, Utley's no slouch. (Granted, Howard's helped his offense as well.) My point being, Cabrera had a bunch of rookies surrounding him. Don't you think, especially early on, that every team's approach w/ Cabrera (with the exception of S.F. & Washington) was to pitch around him to face those rookies? Cabs was 2nd in majors (behind Bonds) in IBB through much of the season. Then Howard got on fire.

I think this question would also depend on who the Marlins had protecting Howard. If he were in our current lineup, I don't think he would have been very successful; he's a pure slugger, and he would have had to make adjustments, like Cabs did this year, and not merely swing for the fences. Situational hitting isn't one of Howard's strong suits.

 

who did Howard have protecting him this year?

 

Well, Utley's no slouch. (Granted, Howard's helped his offense as well.) My point being, Cabrera had a bunch of rookies surrounding him. Don't you think, especially early on, that every team's approach w/ Cabrera (with the exception of S.F. & Washington) was to pitch around him to face those rookies? Cabs was 2nd in majors (behind Bonds) in IBB through much of the season. Then Howard got on fire.

I believe Utley hits in front of Howard

I wouldnt want to do this but we will be taking away someone from the Phillies who is putting up MVP #'s.

 

and giving someone to the Phillies that puts up MVP #s

I think this question would also depend on who the Marlins had protecting Howard. If he were in our current lineup, I don't think he would have been very successful; he's a pure slugger, and he would have had to make adjustments, like Cabs did this year, and not merely swing for the fences. Situational hitting isn't one of Howard's strong suits.

 

who did Howard have protecting him this year?

 

Well, Utley's no slouch. (Granted, Howard's helped his offense as well.) My point being, Cabrera had a bunch of rookies surrounding him. Don't you think, especially early on, that every team's approach w/ Cabrera (with the exception of S.F. & Washington) was to pitch around him to face those rookies? Cabs was 2nd in majors (behind Bonds) in IBB through much of the season. Then Howard got on fire.

I believe Utley hits in front of Howard

You are correct. For the most part, it's these two.

 

Burrell .867

Willingham .863

 

Lately, it's been Dellucci (.900+), but it's not like either has total shmucks batting around them. That is a non-issue with lineup protection, and hitting in front, Rollins and Utley aren't that different then Hanley and Uggla. The issue is, as illustrated above, in future seasons what's the HR differance between the two because Cabrera has the average/contact hitting, youth, and defense on his side. If you believe it shrinks as I do, Cabrera is the easy pick of the two.

Lets re-phrase the question how about Cabrara for Arod? they both play 3B and plus Arod is going to be cheaper then Cabrara after this season or the next because the Rangers and Yankees would still have to pay a majority of his contract. I would do that trade. He whats off the Yankees anyway.

 

 

to be blunt

 

no way in hell.

 

I might deal Willis + prospect for Arod + cash (5-6 million a year). But that would only bring his salary to 10 million a year.

 

But no way in hell would I deal Miguel Cabrera for anyone not named Albert Pujols

Howard has done this with a lot of protection around him.

 

Cabrera's doing it with zero around him.