December 30, 200619 yr I really hope that we move Nolasco to closer and make Jose Garcia our 5th starter but we will see what happens in ST. As of now, it looks like only 3 bullpen spots are set in stone.... 1) Tankersley 2) Pinto 3) Gregg That leaves 3/4 openings.....I think Jose Garcia ONLY makes the team if he starts because it's my understanding that we want to keep him as a starter. Mitre and Messenger are not very good but with injuries to Travis Bowyer, Matt Lindstrom, Carlos Martinez, and Logan Kensing, this will be a race to make the team. Unless we don't sign a Dan Kolb, Reitsma, Alfonseca, get Benitez, etc..., it looks like a Henry Owens or Bart Miadich could make the team. I don't think Yusmeiro Petit is ready. Who makes the team in the bullpen?
December 30, 200619 yr Tank, Gregg, Pinto, Owens, Mitre, J. Garcia (or Nolasco if Garcia starts) are 6 locks to me. I don't think the Marlins have any hesitation with putting future SP in the pen. Johnson did it. Nolasco did it. All over baseball, Papelbon, Wainwright, etc. That's not a problem. They are going to put their best 12 arms on the MLB team and it'll sort out itself from there. Open competition with most likely candidates of Lindstrom, Field, Messenger for final spot as of right now. Hopefully they sign Dustin Hermanson or something decent and keeps them all off the MLB team though.
December 30, 200619 yr As far as I'm concerned, and I dont know much about the guy, but Owens better be a lock to make the team. I'm hoping that trade is the steal of the offseason.
December 30, 200619 yr i think Jose Garcia would make the team either way as a 5th start if Nolasco is moved to the bullpen or as long relief type of guy.
December 30, 200619 yr ...but with injuries to Travis Bowyer, Matt Lindstrom, Carlos Martinez, and Logan Kensing... Maybe I missed something over the holidays, but I can't find any reference in Google News or elsewhere to Matt Lindstrom being injured, certainly not out for the 2007 season as the rest of the players you've grouped him with - Bowyer, Kensing and Martinez - in fact last I looked he has twelve appearances with almost a strikeout an inning under his belt in PR. If I'm wrong, my apologies up front, but I can't find a thing to suggest Lindstrom is anything other than healthy as of this writing. ????
December 30, 200619 yr If Nolasco is moved to the bullpen in a MR/CL spot I would really like to see Mitre as the 5th starter at least for the begining of the season.
December 30, 200619 yr What would appeal to me about Garcia and/or Pinto starting is that their (trade) value would skyrocket as proven or at least experienced starters (vs non-closing relievers) in a world where (especially youthful) starting pitching has more value every day. To me the perfect scenario is Nolasco starts as the fifth starter, goes 6-1, moves to the pen as closer or chief setup guy, and either Pinto or Garcia takes his place and establishes himself as a bonafide starting pitcher. Now if Mitre can only get healthy and show some trade value... the mind boogles at what Beinfest could do with all those trading chips, and all without dipping into the minor league pool.
December 30, 200619 yr What would appeal to me about Garcia and/or Pinto starting is that their (trade) value would skyrocket as proven or at least experienced starters (vs non-closing relievers) in a world where (especially youthful) starting pitching has more value every day. To me the perfect scenario is Nolasco starts as the fifth starter, goes 6-1, moves to the pen as closer or chief setup guy, and either Pinto or Garcia takes his place and establishes himself as a bonafide starting pitcher. Now if Mitre can only get healthy and show some trade value... the mind boogles at what Beinfest could do with all those trading chips, and all without dipping into the minor league pool. you're really optimistic, damn.
December 30, 200619 yr Owens is pretty much a lock, barring a disasterous spring. I'd love to see Nolasco moved to the pen. I'm also in the very very small camp would like to see Mitre get that 5th starting spot(if healthy). And for the record, I don't like what I've read and heard about Matt Lindstrom
December 30, 200619 yr If Pinto was in the rotation, I could easily see him putting up Scott Olsen numbers. If he pulled that off, we could certainly get a LOT for him come the All-Star break...
December 30, 200619 yr If Pinto was in the rotation, I could easily see him putting up Scott Olsen numbers. If he pulled that off, we could certainly get a LOT for him come the All-Star break... that's a good idea. If the coaches work hard with him on his control, he could be very good.
December 30, 200619 yr Owens is pretty much a lock, barring a disasterous spring. I'd love to see Nolasco moved to the pen. I'm also in the very very small camp would like to see Mitre get that 5th starting spot(if healthy). Same, Mitre is a Sinker Ground Ball pitcher, if he can develope into like Webb or Wang, we could have an awesome rotation. where did it say that lindstorm was hurt?
December 30, 200619 yr I would rather keep Nolasco in the rotation because I think he could do very good things as a "5th" starter and believe this rotation 1 through 5 could be very special. But, I also think Nolasco would excel as a closer so I wouldnt be against it. Personally, I'd like to see what Mitre could do because I like Pinto out of the pen. But if we decide to go with Nolasco at closer, you would have to think someone will step up in spring training and claim the spot, whether its Mitre, Garcia or Pinto. What do we expect out of Mike Koplove? I mean, he has had a pretty decent career.
January 1, 200719 yr Mitre is horrible out of the pen, but plays very well in a SP role. Thats why he would be my #5
January 1, 200719 yr ...but with injuries to Travis Bowyer, Matt Lindstrom, Carlos Martinez, and Logan Kensing... Maybe I missed something over the holidays, but I can't find any reference in Google News or elsewhere to Matt Lindstrom being injured, certainly not out for the 2007 season as the rest of the players you've grouped him with - Bowyer, Kensing and Martinez - in fact last I looked he has twelve appearances with almost a strikeout an inning under his belt in PR. If I'm wrong, my apologies up front, but I can't find a thing to suggest Lindstrom is anything other than healthy as of this writing. ???? Correct, Lindstrom is not hurt. His injury was in 2005 although he pitched the entire year with a stress fracture that ran almost the length of his humerous bone. He hit 99 mph on the gun 10 times in the 2.1 innings he pitched on Friday. ERA is now at 2.35 with 17 SO and 5 walks in 21 innings. He has 1 ER in the last 18 innings.
January 1, 200719 yr I like Pettit in the 5th spot personally. I think the kid was just 21 years oldand was rushed up and not given a fair shot. I think he has a good chance of making the rotation with a strong spring.
January 1, 200719 yr ...but with injuries to Travis Bowyer, Matt Lindstrom, Carlos Martinez, and Logan Kensing... Maybe I missed something over the holidays, but I can't find any reference in Google News or elsewhere to Matt Lindstrom being injured, certainly not out for the 2007 season as the rest of the players you've grouped him with - Bowyer, Kensing and Martinez - in fact last I looked he has twelve appearances with almost a strikeout an inning under his belt in PR. If I'm wrong, my apologies up front, but I can't find a thing to suggest Lindstrom is anything other than healthy as of this writing. ???? Correct, Lindstrom is not hurt. His injury was in 2005 although he pitched the entire year with a stress fracture that ran almost the length of his humerous bone. He hit 99 mph on the gun 10 times in the 2.1 innings he pitched on Friday. ERA is now at 2.35 with 17 SO and 5 walks in 21 innings. He has 1 ER in the last 18 innings. I have no way of proving or disproving this but I get the impression part of Beinfest's modus operandi is to go find older guys who really haven't had a chance to prove themselves who are old enough to understand this is the last train to Clarksville. Get on or get out of baseball. Lindstrom has to know this is the best and perhaps last chance he'll have to show he belongs in MLB. With the right personality type that can be a tremendous motivator.
January 1, 200719 yr Nolasco 2006 Starting 4.96 era, 1.43 whip, 6.04 K/9, .290 BAA, 19 HR in 120.2 IP (1.41 HR/9) Relieving 3.98 era, 1.28 whip, 7.96 K/9, .263 BAA, 1 HR in 20.1 IP (.44 HR/9) Mitre (05-06) Starting 5.06 era, 1.38 whip, 5.40 K/9, .270 BAA, 10 HR in 78.1 IP (1.15 HR/9) Relieving 7.04 era, 1.78 whip, 8.21 K/9, .253 BAA, 8 HR in 23 IP (3.13 HR/9) Make your own conclusions, as these split sizes are low to make a truly strong argument, (and I guesstimated Mitre's BAA so give or take 1-3 points if anyone really wants to bust my balls), however if these splits hold up and the choice is A or B, it makes a lot more sense to pitch Mitre in the 5 and have Nolasco in the pen. I am surprised by the results. I thought there was going to be a clear Nolasco victory here. At this point, I'd imagine as starters Ricky would pitch between a 4.00-5.00 era and Mitre between a 4.50-5.50 era. As relievers, I see Ricky as a 3.00-4.00 era and Mitre 5.00-6.00 era. I think that's pretty fair based off their stats and my intuition in watching them. Mitre just gets killed by LHP (1.000+ OPS). Hopefully we'll just walk Ryan Howard this year. This is how I'd do the pitching initially. Dontrelle Anibal Olsen Johnson Mitre < - (Open camp competition with J. Garcia and Petit, which I'm guessing Mitre would win) Nolasco Tank Gregg Pinto J. Garcia Owens N. Field (maybe Messenger) Notables AAA - Petit, Messenger, Lindstrom, Mildren AA - G. Hernandez, Vanden Hurk, H. Garcia, J. Delgado, Doolittle A+ - Volstad, West, Thompson, Sinkbeil, Tucker, Marceaux (as a RP) We need one more veteran RP badly to bump Field/Mess or one of the 3 rooks, but we're in pretty good shape besides that for the staff. If Pinto was in the rotation, I could easily see him putting up Scott Olsen numbers. If he pulled that off, we could certainly get a LOT for him come the All-Star break... If Pinto turns into Scott Olsen, we wouldn't be trading him at the all-star break. He'd be a rotation fixture and we'd all have to sacrifice a pig or larger animal to the heavens for one year giving us Dan Uggla, and the next year turning in a guy who walks 8 guys per 9 innings into a potential stud future # 2 starter. You know who we'd be trading at the all-star break if we weren't in contention and this were to happen - Dontrelle.
January 2, 200719 yr Owens is pretty much a lock, barring a disasterous spring. I'd love to see Nolasco moved to the pen. I'm also in the very very small camp would like to see Mitre get that 5th starting spot(if healthy). And for the record, I don't like what I've read and heard about Matt Lindstrom :thumbup There's a whole lotta hate on this board for Mitre but we havent seen the real Mitre yet. And I think Nolasco would thrive in the pen. His mental make-up is leaps and bounds above arms like Messenger/Kensing and Borowski. Say what you want about Nolasco but he has a filthy curveball and he came very close to pitching a no hitter, something very few people in the Marlins bullpen can boast about.
January 2, 200719 yr Author Nolasco 2006 Starting 4.96 era, 1.43 whip, 6.04 K/9, .290 BAA, 19 HR in 120.2 IP (1.41 HR/9) Relieving 3.98 era, 1.28 whip, 7.96 K/9, .263 BAA, 1 HR in 20.1 IP (.44 HR/9) Mitre (05-06) Starting 5.06 era, 1.38 whip, 5.40 K/9, .270 BAA, 10 HR in 78.1 IP (1.15 HR/9) Relieving 7.04 era, 1.78 whip, 8.21 K/9, .253 BAA, 8 HR in 23 IP (3.13 HR/9) Make your own conclusions, as these split sizes are low to make a truly strong argument, (and I guesstimated Mitre's BAA so give or take 1-3 points if anyone really wants to bust my balls), however if these splits hold up and the choice is A or B, it makes a lot more sense to pitch Mitre in the 5 and have Nolasco in the pen. I am surprised by the results. I thought there was going to be a clear Nolasco victory here. At this point, I'd imagine as starters Ricky would pitch between a 4.00-5.00 era and Mitre between a 4.50-5.50 era. As relievers, I see Ricky as a 3.00-4.00 era and Mitre 5.00-6.00 era. I think that's pretty fair based off their stats and my intuition in watching them. Mitre just gets killed by LHP (1.000+ OPS). Hopefully we'll just walk Ryan Howard this year. This is how I'd do the pitching initially. Dontrelle Anibal Olsen Johnson Mitre < - (Open camp competition with J. Garcia and Petit, which I'm guessing Mitre would win) Nolasco Tank Gregg Pinto J. Garcia Owens N. Field (maybe Messenger) Notables AAA - Petit, Messenger, Lindstrom, Mildren AA - G. Hernandez, Vanden Hurk, H. Garcia, J. Delgado, Doolittle A+ - Volstad, West, Thompson, Sinkbeil, Tucker, Marceaux (as a RP) We need one more veteran RP badly to bump Field/Mess or one of the 3 rooks, but we're in pretty good shape besides that for the staff. If Pinto was in the rotation, I could easily see him putting up Scott Olsen numbers. If he pulled that off, we could certainly get a LOT for him come the All-Star break... If Pinto turns into Scott Olsen, we wouldn't be trading him at the all-star break. He'd be a rotation fixture and we'd all have to sacrifice a pig or larger animal to the heavens for one year giving us Dan Uggla, and the next year turning in a guy who walks 8 guys per 9 innings into a potential stud future # 2 starter. You know who we'd be trading at the all-star break if we weren't in contention and this were to happen - Dontrelle. Lou, I like your thinking on who makes the team. Man, our minor league pitching is still very stacked. I like our AA pitchers. Call me crazy, but does Rick VandenHurk have a chance to make the team out of camp? He has the stuff....
January 2, 200719 yr Lou, I like your thinking on who makes the team. Man, our minor league pitching is still very stacked. I like our AA pitchers. Call me crazy, but does Rick VandenHurk have a chance to make the team out of camp? He has the stuff.... I don't expect him on the 07 squad, unless there are a serious of catastrophic injuries. There are a lot of guys higher than him on the pecking order, and really, we all are in love with Vanden Hurk because of the K numbers but he still has a lot to prove control wise with the walks. I think a full year in AA will do a lot of good. Maybe a late promotion to AAA in the summer, or a september call up if he's really succeeding. He should be one of the better RP we have coming through the pipeline, so it's in our best interest to not promote him until he sticks for good, as to not have his service time start accruing. He's young. He's not like Owens or Lindstrom who need to start showing something at the MLB level within the next year.
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